[Base class 3.5]Magic? Rubbish, no such thing.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Well, He probably wouldn't perceive them anyway. But Stubborn Fighters would be more logical. They'd more likely puzzle over probabilities, equations and possible reasons for what they saw.
Though not everyone follows a set bracket. And I suppose there could be a few crazies.
"You. don't. EXIST" *bashing a wizards head in with a stick*

And how would that work? I don't get how he couldn't see the cleric bring the guy back from the brink of death by touching him. I also don't see how he could come up with a logical explanation.

[Shadow Lord]

Still no answer to me Troll question. Why won't thou answer me? Is thou scared?

[Cipher Stars]

{Scrubbed}

[Shadow Lord]

{Scrub the post, scrub the quote}

Hey! I'm not trolling; that answer just didn't answer the question. I want to know specifically how he would explain a Troll regenerating a freaking arm.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Hey! I'm not trolling; that answer just didn't answer the question. I want to know specifically how he would explain a Troll regenerating a freaking arm.

Didn't answer my question about healing either...

[Togath]

Maybe he veiws the healing effects as psionics?, sorta stretch though.

[Urpriest]

Maybe he veiws the healing effects as psionics?, sorta stretch though.

Nope. Psionics are magic in most campaigns, and kinda crumble if they aren't.

[Veklim]

...Or if he just sees a dragon..

Aren't dragons inherantly magical creatures? Therefore, he'd not be able to perceive, or even directly interact with them, surely?

[Shadow Lord]

Aren't dragons inherantly magical creatures? Therefore, he'd not be able to perceive, or even directly interact with them, surely?

Is their abilites not inherently magically inspired if they have the ability to ignore magic? Does that mean they ignore their own class feature? I'M SO CONFUSED!

[drakir_nosslin]

The stubborn fighter also wouldn't be able to save his friends from a raging golem, or any other magically animated/created creature. Granted, the fighter couldn't be harmed by it either, but imagine its surprise when people start to die all around it and it can't even see the thing that smashes in their heads

[Hiro Protagonest]

Is their abilites not inherently magically inspired if they have the ability to ignore magic? Does that mean they ignore their own class feature? I'M SO CONFUSED!

Yeah, the thing of "illusion not allowing them to see magic" makes no sense.

[Analytica]

This would work a lot better in Mage: the Ascension, where the basic premise was that the world is actually entirely subjective, and any clash between two forces is ultimately up to whoever believes the strongest.

Under that premise, you might have someone disbelieving magic very strongly, or many people doing it, and reality would retcon the magic away, so in fact there never was a fireball, and there actually was some perfectly mundane reason things happened.

In D&D though, you run into more trouble. Consider the flying city. It is flying through magic, magic does not exist as far as the stubborn fighter is concerned. Does it fall, then? If it does, do the falling rocks hurt the fighter?

[Hiro Protagonest]

In D&D though, you run into more trouble. Consider the flying city. It is flying through magic, magic does not exist as far as the stubborn fighter is concerned. Does it fall, then? If it does, do the falling rocks hurt the fighter?

Unfortunately, the OP specifically spelled out that those non-magical rocks do not harm the fighter in any way, because they fell due to magic.

[Analytica]

But the rocks are non-magical, they were just made to fly. So does this mean that what the fighter's conviction actually does is keep the falling rocks at bay, or instantaneously healing the damage they cause?

[Shadow Lord]

It seems to me like he just kinda... is so convinced that magic isn't real, that he can deny the existence of the magic, and somehow also deny the existence of everything that had anything to do with the magic. Which is not smart.

[Morph Bark]

If someone was conceived using magic or had a resurrection spell cast on them before entering this class, would they cease to exist/die once they entered the class or hit the level at which they become immune to the level of spell responsible?

[Urpriest]

A moderately constructive suggestion:

If you want the ability to be as deliciously overpowered as intended, it should be phrased as such. Here's a suggestion:

Upon entering this class the Stubborn Fighter sees the world differently. Where others see the world as a magical world full of supernatural beings, the Fighter does not believe in any form of magic. Once a level of this class is taken the player of the Stubborn Fighter should be taken aside from the rest of the group. The DM should then decide what the campaign setting would have been like without any historical sources of magic. Once the DM has decided this, the DM will run a game of d20 Past for the Fighter set in this world, with all FX abilities and any creatures besides humans and creatures of the Animal type banned. The other players may choose to join this game if they wish, though they are also subject to its constraints. The DM must simultaneously run the preexisting D&D game, with the caveat that the character who is now the Stubborn Fighter falls into a catatonic state as per Microcosm except that there is no cure.

I couldn't figure out how to get the increasing spell levels in, but this should be along the right lines.

[Cipher Stars]

If you want the ability to be as deliciously overpowered as intended,

someone gets it after all...

Upon entering this class the Stubborn Fighter sees the world differently. Where others see the world as a magical world full of supernatural beings, the Fighter does not believe in any form of magic. Once a level of this class is taken the player of the Stubborn Fighter should be taken aside from the rest of the group. The DM should then decide what the campaign setting would have been like without any historical sources of magic. Once the DM has decided this, the DM will run a game of d20 Past for the Fighter set in this world, with all FX abilities and any creatures besides humans and creatures of the Animal type banned. The other players may choose to join this game if they wish, though they are also subject to its constraints. The DM must simultaneously run the preexisting D&D game, with the caveat that the character who is now the Stubborn Fighter falls into a catatonic state as per Microcosm except that there is no cure.

I couldn't figure out how to get the increasing spell levels in, but this should be along the right lines.

this confuses me let alone any struggling DM out there...

[Veklim]

Of course there's another way...slightly less effective, but essentially the stubborn fighter sees all magical effects as nothing more than cheap parlour tricks. It's not that he cannot or will not perceive it, but simply that he doesn't believe. Couple it with his immunities and most things would never worry him. Perhaps animated objects, mundane items propelled by magic, creatures summoned and the like should be allowed to affect him. After all, he ignores most of the big nasties and the save or die stuff, what's a dire badger and a couple of zombies, or a catapulted rock in the face of that?

I find it interesting that the majority of your class hasn't been critiqued upon with much fervour, all the energy seems to be going into the semantics of your fluff. I find this understandable, but a little sad. In theory, this is a sweet idea, and finally something to resurrect the (frequently mentioned by me, 'coz I love 'em!) Forsaker concept of a walking embodiment of the mundane.

[Urpriest]

this confuses me let alone any struggling DM out there...

Well that's hardly constructive.

Quick summary: the Fighter goes off and plays a different game with no magic in it.

[super dark33]

My question wasnt answered, can the fighter 'ignore' spells like fire orb or forcecage?

[Epsilon Rose]

My question wasnt answered, can the fighter 'ignore' spells like fire orb or forcecage?

That's already been covered. The answer is yes. They can also ignore undead and rocks falling because you blasted the ceiling with something.

[Shadow Lord]

See, the idea is great. The implementation is crazy. And not crazy good. I mean... utter immunity to all spells once you hit level 20? Not cool. Normally the classes by this person are much better, but this one class ain't very good.

[Hiro Protagonest]

See, the idea is great. The implementation is crazy. And not crazy good. I mean... utter immunity to all spells once you hit level 20? Not cool. Normally the classes by this person are much better, but this one class ain't very good.

It's meant to be a joke. The problem is making it overpowered isn't the only way to make it a joke, and even as a joke, it makes absolutely no sense in how it believes magic isn't real.

[Epsilon Rose]

It's meant to be a joke. The problem is making it overpowered isn't the only way to make it a joke, and even as a joke, it makes absolutely no sense in how it believes magic isn't real.

Part of the problem is that it's not a particularly good joke. There's nothing in the class design to tell a reader that it's a joke and not a badly designed class (none of the abilities are particularly unbelievable and none of the descriptions seem to be attempting a tongue-in-cheek wording, or humor of any sort really. I'd be willing to bet most people didn't realize this was a joke until the author told us on the second page (I know I didn't) and the way the arguments were going didn't help.

Poe's law is fun, isn't it?... isn't it?

[Hiro Protagonest]

{Scrubbed}

[Cipher Stars]

Its not joke, so much as not serious.
Unlike every other piece of homebrew I've ever made, discounting "Bear God" in some bear feat craze meant to be both epic and crazy, yet everyone's constantly picking at this one. Its frustrating. Maybe I should make non-serious threads more often, but also made with the intention of replies that constantly jabber about how horrible it is.

"Its so horrible!... But I'll keep coming back to pick at it some more"

I changed, sometime last night, the immunity to only apply to direct attacks. So a Transformed Wizard full of buffs retains all defenses as the Stubborn fighter attacks, but no buffs when the wizard attacks the fighter.

Last change. I'm not willing to change anything further, because I never even meant to look at it again after I posted in the first place.

So stop saying my brews suck, and that I can't make ****. Because thats what I'm getting from all your comments.

[Shadow Lord]

See, the idea is great. The implementation is crazy. And not crazy good. I mean... utter immunity to all spells once you hit level 20? Not cool. Normally the classes by this person are much better, but this one class ain't very good.

O rly? Well then!

[Cipher Stars]

O rly? Well then!

None the less, that part did make me feel a lil better though

[Shadow Lord]

None the less, that part did make me feel a lil better though

Good, because if it made you sad, I would have to CONSUME YOUR VERY SOUL!