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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default I killed a PC, I liked it.

    Another one bites the dust!

    Seeing all the recent threads on Bad GM! I thought I'd confess to brutally Murdering a Wizard in our game session last night.

    The PC's had found a secret door leading into the Mini-Boss lair, the pixie sneaked in invisible and sees to armoured figures talking and tried to use a sleep arrow on one of them (natural 20 on his save). Initiative rolled and Pixie acted again, then mini-bosses (MB's), then party. Pixie went for straight damage arrow but missed.

    MB1 exclaimed about invisible attacker and casted darkness, moved out of main room to a side room to get his stuff and leave.
    MB2 also moved to side room. Party failed listen checks to determine direction of movement.

    Room became very nuked as the wizard and Bard unload AoEs, The Party discussed "Magic Missiling the darkness" (Yup, they really did), tried and failed to dispell and eventually decided that the MB's had left throught the rooms main door (Found early, Barred from the inside after party slaughtered all the guards in the room outside within 3 rounds) The party loudly proclaim that they should catch the MB's by cutting them off and promtly head off to do so, (except that the wizard thought the MB's might still try to leave by the secret door, so he waited behind).

    The MB's took 4 rounds to gather their stuff and then left, out the secret door, ran into the wizard. One Hold person later (saving throw failed) the wizard was paralyzed, so MB2 helpfully cut his throat (Coup de Gras) and the MB's went on their way.

    It was unfortunate for the Wizard but I couldn't see any reason why the MB's would leave him alive.
    Doug

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  2. - Top - End - #2
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: I killed a PC, I liked it.

    Reasons to leave mage alive:
    (granted, these reasons only work in storylines, not real life)
    1) As a hostage
    2) To send a message to other interlopers (scar him up a bit, but leave him alive to carry the message)
    3) To torture him for money, gold, passwords, spellbook location
    4) to have a captive Mage to cast extra spells
    5) because as bad as they are, the MB's aren't cold blooded murders
    6) Because one of the MB's is really an agent of the king, and isn't a cold blooded murder
    7) as a future blood sacrifice for a horrific spell
    8)....

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    mootoall's Avatar

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    Default Re: I killed a PC, I liked it.

    Reasons not to leave wizards alive: They're deadly wizards. Good on ya, mate. I think it was the right move, personally. Deaths happen, and I think it happened right.
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    Hulking Hurler can get something like (10^83)d6 damage, which is many orders of magnitude greater than the number of particles in the universe.
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  4. - Top - End - #4
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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: I killed a PC, I liked it.

    Well, I'd view it more as a "bad idea for the wizard to stay alone, where one failed save will get you killed helplessly". Remember - don't split the party!

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Temet Nosce's Avatar

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    Default Re: I killed a PC, I liked it.

    *shrugs*

    Not sure what you're looking for, if it helps though I would've done the same. The Wizard didn't think things through and died. Nothing surprising there. I certainly don't see why you'd need to leave him alive in that situation (not saying you couldn't find an excuse, but I don't see a need to).

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Blisstake's Avatar

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    Default Re: I killed a PC, I liked it.

    Don't split the party. Hopefully they learned a lesson out of this.

    Are they mad at you?
    Avatar by A Rainy Knight

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Larpus's Avatar

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    Default Re: I killed a PC, I liked it.

    I'm certainly not a fan of killing the PCs nor like when the DM kills mine, but that is only when the PCs can't do anything against it, such as a no-escape situation the DM puts them in or as the result of a single poor roll (essentially a NPC crits the player).

    In that specific situation however?

    Totally the Wizard's fault, he should've at least convinced one melee guy to stay behind with him since, as mentioned, he's super squishy and a single poor roll might end his life.

    And it did.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Devil

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    Default Re: I killed a PC, I liked it.

    This encounter was not planned
    Not my intention
    Players left guard post unmanned
    who's on watch they did not mention
    It's not what, they should do
    sleeping with no armor on
    I roll their listen, all less than "2"
    Cast "blacklight", now their fire's gone

    I killed a PC and I liked it
    The way his character sheet ignited
    I killed a PC and I liked it
    Hope W O T C don't mind it
    It felt chaotic good
    It felt chaotic bad
    it don't mean they're gonna TPK
    I killed a PC and I liked it
    I liked it

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: I killed a PC, I liked it.

    Quote Originally Posted by graeylin View Post
    Reasons to leave mage alive:
    (granted, these reasons only work in storylines, not real life)
    1) As a hostage
    2) To send a message to other interlopers (scar him up a bit, but leave him alive to carry the message)
    3) To torture him for money, gold, passwords, spellbook location
    4) to have a captive Mage to cast extra spells
    5) because as bad as they are, the MB's aren't cold blooded murders
    6) Because one of the MB's is really an agent of the king, and isn't a cold blooded murder
    7) as a future blood sacrifice for a horrific spell
    8)....
    Sadly they were both Clerics of the ToEE and were in a hurry to escape from the people who had killed all their minions and were looking for them (Eg the Party) Taking 6 seconds to slit a throat seemed to be the only course of action that they would have considered.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blisstake View Post
    Don't split the party. Hopefully they learned a lesson out of this.

    Are they mad at you?
    More mad at themselves, They realised the wizard was dead when he went back to the room and rolled (and failed) his save. Even the wizard Player was OK with it (at least he seemed to be).

    I've got a swiftly revolving door afterlife going on so it doesn't need to be a very permanent death, in fact the party have already dragged his corpse back to a person who can help them raise him (if he wants it).

    I have plans that later in the campaign the parties actions may slow or stop the revolving door, but its so far caused them some hassles when "dead" enemies come back at them.

    Edit:

    Quote Originally Posted by kharmakazy View Post
    This encounter was not planned
    Not my intention
    Players left guard post unmanned
    who's on watch they did not mention
    It's not what, they should do
    sleeping with no armor on
    I roll their listen, all less than "2"
    Cast "blacklight", now their fire's gone

    I killed a PC and I liked it
    The way his character sheet ignited
    I killed a PC and I liked it
    Hope W O T C don't mind it
    It felt chaotic good
    It felt chaotic bad
    it don't mean they're gonna TPK
    I killed a PC and I liked it
    I liked it
    Yes! Exactly what I was thinking.
    Last edited by only1doug; 2011-07-08 at 10:21 AM.
    Doug

    Currently GMing :
    Moonshae Mysteries IC / OOC / Central Map / west rooms map / east rooms map
    Moonshae Tales IC / OOC / Map
    Map of Area

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    DwarfFighterGuy

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    Default Re: I killed a PC, I liked it.

    Quote Originally Posted by kharmakazy View Post
    This encounter was not planned
    Not my intention
    Players left guard post unmanned
    who's on watch they did not mention
    It's not what, they should do
    sleeping with no armor on
    I roll their listen, all less than "2"
    Cast "blacklight", now their fire's gone

    I killed a PC and I liked it
    The way his character sheet ignited
    I killed a PC and I liked it
    Hope W O T C don't mind it
    It felt chaotic good
    It felt chaotic bad
    it don't mean they're gonna TPK
    I killed a PC and I liked it
    I liked it
    /thread. That is all.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    TOZ's Avatar

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    Default Re: I killed a PC, I liked it.

    I killed a whole party.

    Running Shackled City for a bunch of new players, they botched the recovery of the wands the bad guys had stolen for ransom. With a little friendly assistance from the rival theives guild in locating the new hideout, they go to investigate how to approach.

    First problem, the party had split up. The CE halfling rogue went his own way, while the rest of the party did their thing. Halfling gets there first. What does he do?

    Walks in the front door.

    Not finding anything in the first room, he walks into the main warehouse and fails his spot check. Urban Ranger guildmaster turns him into a corpse.

    The rest of the party shows up a little later. What do they do?

    Walk in the front door.

    The party cleric ends up standing in the pool of halfling blood right as the ambush starts. Everything goes to hell in a handbasket, with the warehouse burning down and the party bard, who was absent that session, having to drag the rest of the group to the temple for raising.
    Players are like water. They go everywhere.
    So you need to cut the channels that direct them where you want them to go.
    If they try to skip the channel, let them. Cut another one ahead of them.
    Eventually, they'll take the channel. They'll even think it was entirely their own idea.
    When you try to build a dam, that's when they resent you.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    PirateCaptain

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    Default Re: I killed a PC, I liked it.

    Come, only1doug. Join me, and together, we can rule the 'verses.

    It is only when you accept that you love killing your PCs that you can understand the true power behind the DM's screen...

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Vemynal's Avatar

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    Default Re: I killed a PC, I liked it.

    If ya feel bad for killing his character I know I would; but ya did the right thing. Letting him lived would have put the game on "easy mode" and players would have been left feeling as if actions had no consequences
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  14. - Top - End - #14
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: I killed a PC, I liked it.

    This kind of reminds me when I killed 3 out of 8 players with a handful of Tiny Vipers.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Lord Loss's Avatar

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    Default Re: I killed a PC, I liked it.

    Last edited by Lord Loss; 2011-07-10 at 02:30 PM.
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  16. - Top - End - #16
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Rogue Shadows's Avatar

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    Default Re: I killed a PC, I liked it.

    Quote Originally Posted by TOZ View Post
    I killed a whole party.
    Heck, I did that twice in a single campaign. As part of the plot, but their actual deaths were 100% done in-game. They got better pretty quickly afterwards.

    Another one bites the dust!
    The game is not Player VS DM!

    ...but...

    ...the DM makes the monsters and NPCs knowing that the players are going to kill them. The DM might fall in love with a particular monster or NPC. The DM might devote large portions of his or her life creating a complex and entertaining story, a dangerous dungeon, a great villain...The DM might spend hours or days or even weeks designing the perfect world of adventure for the players...

    ...only to watch the players sweep aside their beloved monster, bypass the trap, utterly undermine the strength of charater possessed by the villain, and burn the world to cinders. And laugh while doing it.

    Such is the life of a Dungeon Master.

    So is it really so bad, if every once in awhile, the DM feels *just a little* bit of joy, when the player fails a saving throw? Perhaps the one that takes them from -9 to -10?

    I think it's very bad.

    ...but it also warms the cockles of my heart, just a little, every now and then...

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Colossus in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: I killed a PC, I liked it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Temet Nosce View Post
    *shrugs*

    Not sure what you're looking for, if it helps though I would've done the same. The Wizard didn't think things through and died. Nothing surprising there. I certainly don't see why you'd need to leave him alive in that situation (not saying you couldn't find an excuse, but I don't see a need to).
    No, the wizard's problem was that he was the only one who thought things through correctly and knew what was going to happen. The rest of the party decided to go in the completely wrong direction and the wizard was unable to convince them otherwise or didn't try, though how or why that failed we don't know.

    The fact that he didn't have enough protections and got instantly punked alone would show that he was not a deadly wizard in the slightest.
    Last edited by Coidzor; 2011-07-10 at 02:41 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    +3 Girlfriend is totally unoptimized. You are better off with a +1 Keen Witty girlfriend and then appling Greater Magic Make-up to increase her enhancement bonus.
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    Troll in the Playground
     
    Pokonic's Avatar

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    Default Re: I killed a PC, I liked it.

    Meh, the one time I did a mass PC killing is when they when into a troll lair staffed by Trolls and ogres in full plate. +3 fire resitant fullplate. They wernt supposed to run in charging the half ogre with the chain too. Realy, the diserved it for being so dumb.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Rogue Shadows's Avatar

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    Default Re: I killed a PC, I liked it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    The fact that he didn't have enough protections and got instantly punked alone would show that he was not a deadly wizard in the slightest.
    Perhaps the Quirky Miniboss Squad decided they'd rather not take the chance? They don't know how badly they outranked the wizard. For all they know they got lucky.

    ...oh, he also wasn't instantly punk'd alone, the OP specifically states that it was 4 rounds before the MBs showed up.

    I think it was four rounds.

    Let me go check.

    EDIT
    Yup, the wizard had 4 rounds before the MBs show up, after specifically staying behind in order to wait for them.
    Last edited by Rogue Shadows; 2011-07-10 at 02:53 PM.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Temet Nosce's Avatar

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    Default Re: I killed a PC, I liked it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    No, the wizard's problem was that he was the only one who thought things through correctly and knew what was going to happen. The rest of the party decided to go in the completely wrong direction and the wizard was unable to convince them otherwise or didn't try, though how or why that failed we don't know.

    The fact that he didn't have enough protections and got instantly punked alone would show that he was not a deadly wizard in the slightest.
    No, you're misreading what I said. I didn't state that his basic premise was wrong, but that he didn't think the ramifications through. Given what he guessed, he either should've (as you mention later) been able to deal with them on his own, or not stayed there. Regardless of the accuracy of his predictions, his planning abilities apparently left something to be desired.

    I admit it's a pity the other players who guessed wrong are still alive, but hey cheer up maybe the DM can get them later with the same mini bosses.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: I killed a PC, I liked it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Shadows View Post
    The game is not Player VS DM!
    Your game might not be...

    I've played in a game where the GM was out to kill every PC, You felt a real achievement for surviving.

    But thats not my game, I don't really want the PCs dead, I just want them to know that I won't hesitate to kill them if it comes up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Shadows View Post
    ...but...

    ...the DM makes the monsters and NPCs knowing that the players are going to kill them. The DM might fall in love with a particular monster or NPC. The DM might devote large portions of his or her life creating a complex and entertaining story, a dangerous dungeon, a great villain...The DM might spend hours or days or even weeks designing the perfect world of adventure for the players...

    ...only to watch the players sweep aside their beloved monster, bypass the trap, utterly undermine the strength of charater possessed by the villain, and burn the world to cinders. And laugh while doing it.
    Not so much for me, I have no emotional investment in the monsters as I'm running a pre-written adventure module, I didn't even do the 3.5 update.
    (temple of Elemental Evil, they are currently in room 137 having cleared most of the first basement level of the temple already)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Shadows View Post
    Such is the life of a Dungeon Master.

    So is it really so bad, if every once in awhile, the DM feels *just a little* bit of joy, when the player fails a saving throw? Perhaps the one that takes them from -9 to -10?

    I think it's very bad.

    ...but it also warms the cockles of my heart, just a little, every now and then...
    This is how I view it.

    Also Its bad form to start celebrating a PC death in front of the Players so I have to bring my celebration here.
    Doug

    Currently GMing :
    Moonshae Mysteries IC / OOC / Central Map / west rooms map / east rooms map
    Moonshae Tales IC / OOC / Map
    Map of Area

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: I killed a PC, I liked it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    No, the wizard's problem was that he was the only one who thought things through correctly and knew what was going to happen. The rest of the party decided to go in the completely wrong direction and the wizard was unable to convince them otherwise or didn't try, though how or why that failed we don't know.

    The fact that he didn't have enough protections and got instantly punked alone would show that he was not a deadly wizard in the slightest.
    If the rest of the party hadn't loudly discussed their plans and decided that they were going to go around to the other door then the Mini Bosses would have left by the other door. They were in escape and evade mode, having just seen their 2 liuetenants killed (in 3 combat rounds) by the party.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Shadows View Post
    ...oh, he also wasn't instantly punk'd alone, the OP specifically states that it was 4 rounds before the MBs showed up.
    Unfortunately he was instantly punk'd, the MB's saw him, one cast hold person, wizard failed his save, 2nd MB moved in and then started Coup de Gras, completed next round without interruption. Exit bad guys, stage left.

    I think that the worst part (for the players) was that th Gnome pally was less than 1/2 way to the other door when the pixie rogue came back to tell him that it was still barred (so maybe the bad guys didn't go that way after all).

    Possibly the real villain of the peace was the pixies unexplained conception that the room the MBs were in was somehow trapped in the center, he was so convinced that the rest of the party automatically believed it too. (hence they didn't want to go into the room scared of a trap within the magical darkness).
    Doug

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    Moonshae Mysteries IC / OOC / Central Map / west rooms map / east rooms map
    Moonshae Tales IC / OOC / Map
    Map of Area

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    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Coidzor's Avatar

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    Default Re: I killed a PC, I liked it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Shadows View Post
    Perhaps the Quirky Miniboss Squad decided they'd rather not take the chance? They don't know how badly they outranked the wizard. For all they know they got lucky.

    ...oh, he also wasn't instantly punk'd alone, the OP specifically states that it was 4 rounds before the MBs showed up.

    I think it was four rounds.

    Let me go check.

    EDIT
    Yup, the wizard had 4 rounds before the MBs show up, after specifically staying behind in order to wait for them.
    Yeah, and he wasn't able to do anything with those 4 rounds to prevent being instantly punked when the baddies did show up.

    Thus, not dangerous in the slightest as far as wizards go.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    +3 Girlfriend is totally unoptimized. You are better off with a +1 Keen Witty girlfriend and then appling Greater Magic Make-up to increase her enhancement bonus.
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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: I killed a PC, I liked it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    Yeah, and he wasn't able to do anything with those 4 rounds to prevent being instantly punked when the baddies did show up.

    Thus, not dangerous in the slightest as far as wizards go.
    It was very strange, He declared he was holding his action, I'd determined which turn the Baddies were going to move on, we did other PC movement ("you get to here this turn") and then he got bored of holding and acted, immediately before I'd predetermined the Baddies were going to go....

    If there had been one other PC with him (like Maybe the Gnome Paladin) then they wouldn't of spent the time Ganking him, they would of carried on running.

    If he hadn't been directly blocking their exit they would of taken a different route to avoid him, even after succeeding with Hold Person.

    Unfortunately... things worked out for the worst, He was minorly inconvenienced with a visit to the otherworld.
    Doug

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    Moonshae Mysteries IC / OOC / Central Map / west rooms map / east rooms map
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: I killed a PC, I liked it.

    PC deaths are part of the game. Honestly as long as you weren't going out of your way to kill that particular PC, or the villains were acting illogically/against their nature just to make sure that PC died, resurrection exists for a reason. Based on the situation described, I don't think you did anything that would be considered bad DMing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Shadows View Post



    The game is not Player VS DM!
    This is very true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Shadows View Post

    ...but...

    ...the DM makes the monsters and NPCs knowing that the players are going to kill them. The DM might fall in love with a particular monster or NPC. The DM might devote large portions of his or her life creating a complex and entertaining story, a dangerous dungeon, a great villain...The DM might spend hours or days or even weeks designing the perfect world of adventure for the players...

    ...only to watch the players sweep aside their beloved monster, bypass the trap, utterly undermine the strength of charater possessed by the villain, and burn the world to cinders. And laugh while doing it.
    I do and don't sympathize. I've made some pretty epic bosses (literally, the last 3.5 campaign we ran went from level 9-19, and the final four bosses were all lv 22+, safe to say they weren't put together in 10 minutes). They fought the good fight and, predictably, lost it in the end. Was is sad to see them go? A little, but the battles against them were exciting and challenging for the PCs and fun to run for me ("He turned into a what now? with how many heads??" ) I also enjoy making bosses, and have tons of ideas for new ones, so to me it was just an opportunity to make a new, even more insane villian

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    2-HeadedGiraffe's Avatar

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    Default Re: I killed a PC, I liked it.

    As a DM, I generally give players a way out, but I have been willing to kill PCs if they do something stupid or sometimes if it just works out that way. For example, the players I had awhile back learned always to make sure someone was standing between the wizard and the monster. In that case, the monster went after the thing hurting it the most, and because that was squishy and no one was protecting it, it died.

    Lately, though, I've gotten a taste for just putting them into worse trouble instead of killing them outright. For example, my PCs were fighting on open water, riding aquatic mounts (it was an ocean and island based game). I rolled enough damage to kill a character but decided it was more fun to have that character knocked unconscious and dismounted. Another player had to use his turn diving in after the first character and then healing.

    That being said, my general policy is that PCs should die pretty much only if they're doing something stupid and deserve it, or sometimes if it's a major, climatic battle. I generally don't like killing a PC in a random encounter, for example.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: I killed a PC, I liked it.

    I just had a player drowned, he was a rogue stepping directly into a pool of water (Reflex DC 20 failed, he was effectually blind so he didn't see it). He had 17 rounds of swim checks (unskilled ofc) to get up and failed most of them by far (so he got as much down as he got up) until he just started to make a constitution save (failed and drowned thereby two rounds later). His party didn't help him for several reasons (one was helpless lying around at some other point in the dungeon after getting 13 Wisdom drained, two stayed outside of the dungeon to guard the horses, and the last one was under attack for the whole 20 rounds by guards, he just didn't made it to get to them over the pool, he was kinda blind, too).

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: I killed a PC, I liked it.

    I never killed a PC.

    But I still have that song stuck in my head.

    Curse you.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Devil

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    Default Re: I killed a PC, I liked it.

    I know this is IRL and not RAW... but unless he was carrying heavy things or bound somehow he would just float to the top with relative ease...

    But swiming in a pool is only DC 10, and you have to fail by 5 or more to go underwater...

  30. - Top - End - #30
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    Hiro Protagonest's Avatar

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    Feb 2011
    Location
    Minnesota
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: I killed a PC, I liked it.

    Quote Originally Posted by kharmakazy View Post
    I know this is IRL and not RAW... but unless he was carrying heavy things or bound somehow he would just float to the top with relative ease...

    But swiming in a pool is only DC 10, and you have to fail by 5 or more to go underwater...
    And by RAW, you can't die from drowning anyway.

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