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  1. - Top - End - #181
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    gbprime's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXII

    And sliding in under the judge deadline is... me!

    Bloodstained Hurricane - 15.5 -

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    Originality - 2.75 - A 2 level dip into ranger costs a bit (-0.25), but there's otherwise nothing unexpected here. The race is a natural choice for a lots-of-attacks build.

    Power - 4.5 - That... is one metric butt-ton of attacks, and it doesn't really have a problem against damage reduction once skirmish bonuses come online. (+1.5)

    Eloquence - 3.5 - Kudos for not relying on a LA buyoff (+0.25) or assuming that a non-psi version of the race was available(+0.25). Speed of Thought comes so late that it's basically an afterthought, so I'm not giving a bonus for that.

    Use of Special Ingredient - 4.75 - Both required skills of the PrC are maximized by level 20, so standard bonus there (+0.5). Multiweapon fighting is just brutal synergy (+0.5), as is use of skirmish (+0.25). And when Thousand Cuts finally comes online you're doubling... 11 attacks. Eek. (+0.5)


    Avander - 10.25 -

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    Originality - 3.25 - A ranged Dervish, interesting (+0.5). It dips Ranger though (-0.25).

    Power - 2.0 - While a valiant attempt at versatility, the archer abilities just don't stack with the Dervish ones. In essence you have created a Dervish which does not improve it's abilities and instead can also shoot things. (-1)

    Eloquence - 2.5 - Your skill points are all goofed up, and I can't see where you got Tumble as a class skill under fighter (-0.5).

    Use of Special Ingredient - 2.5 - You've spent a lot of effort on being an archer too, but Dervish Dance and Thousand cuts both specify melee attacks only. So while you're not changing up weapons to switch between the two, you're also not really using the archery component either. (-0.5) While you spent skill points on your required class skills, neither is maximized, so no bonus or penalties there.


    Weylin - 14.25 -

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    Originality - 3.5 - Enough Binder levels for Paimon is a nice touch, and an odd way to approach Dervish (+0.5).

    Power - 3.75 - Paimon plus Dervish is a capable combo (+0.25), and chaining Robiliar's Gambit to the Dervish dance potentially adds quite a few attacks at your full BAB (+0.5).

    Eloquence - 3.5 - Four levels each of two base classes is tidy (+0.25), and you avoid a cross class penalty without jumping through odd hoops (+0.25). Shadowdancer seems to be added as a "hey, why not, I'm already qualified", and it doesn't synergize well with the other classes. (Knight of the Sacred Seal would actually have fit better given your backstory and classes.)

    Use of Special Ingredient - 3.5 - Love is given to the prerequisite skills, but neither is maximized, so no bonus or penalty. I'd give higher marks here if the Swordsage maneuvers added to the Dervish Dance, but instead they seem to be alternatives to it, which you did not need. Robilar's Gambit is a nice add, as previously noted (+0.25), and Paimon fits here too (+0.25), so I split the bonuses between here and Eloquence.


    Sanavakri - 15.5 -

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    Originality - 3.75 - I thought Kalashtar was here merely for the Psychic Warrior levels, but I was proven wrong later in the build (+0.5). It's still a 2 level dip, though (-0.25).

    Power - 4.0 - I wasn't impressed until I read up on Dancing With Shadows. Every OTHER round, you're royally walloping your foes, and biding your time between with massive AC bonuses and martial maneuvers. This works better than I thought it would (+1).

    Eloquence - 3.75 - A simple build is elegance in it's own right, with just 2 classes aside from the PrC (+0.25). you've also got excellent feat synergy going on (adding Stormguard Warrior to the Dancing with Shadows feat, for example) (+0.5)

    Use of Special Ingredient - 4.0 - You keep the prerequisite skills maxxed out (+0.5), and your choice of feats accentuates the Dervish style, meaning the class is integral to your fighting style rather than just a bonus (+0.5).


    Death of Xen'drik - 12.0 -

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    Originality - 2.5 - Thri-Kreen we've seen before in Dervish, so nothing unique about that. Ditto with Ranger and Warblade. The dip into fighter hurts, though (-0.5).

    Power - 3.75 - You've got quite a few attacks (+0.5), but nothing besides a wand trick to pump them up. Mind you it's a nice trick (+0.25) but easily short circuited.

    Eloquence - 2.25 - You're relying on a single magic item trick to make your attacks very effective (-0.5) rather than by using feats or class abilities. The fighter level is clearly for the feat and no other reason, and even warblade comes online as an afterthought. (I'd have respected 3 more levels of fighter more.) (-0.25)

    Use of Special Ingredient - 3.5 - Tumble skill is maximized (+0.25) but Perform (Dance) is taken at the minimum and then never raised again (-0.25). Multiweapon is a wonderful bump for dervish dance and thousand cuts, though. (+0.5)


    Devlin Bladehands - 12.25 -

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    Originality - 3.25 - Verstile unarmed as a way to get an unarmed Dervish? Surprising (+1). Pity you dipped swordsage (-0.5) and Monk (-0.25) to do it.

    Power - 3.75 - Warshaper and Swashbuckler are nice boosts to power (+0.5), as is Shadow Blade (+0.25).

    Eloquence - 2.75 - I'm docking you for the two unused feats (-0.5), as the point of Iron Chef is for you to tell us how YOU would build it. I docked you in Originality already for the two class dips, as they just make the build feel cluttered. But I'm giving some of that BACK for Warshaper levels, which fit SO nicely with an unarmed changeling (+0.5). And Carmendine Monk is a natural for blending monk with either swashbuckler or wizard (+0.25), BUT... with that feat you're using both Eberron and Forgotten Realms (-0.5).

    Use of Special Ingredient - 2.5 - The prereq skills are maximized (+0.5), but I don't see much of a reason for being a Dervish. You qualified for it, you got extra attacks from it, but that's about it. None of your feats accentuate your Dervish abilities (-1). Perhaps if you had used those unused feats on this, the result would be different.


    Elrond - 13.75 -

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    Originality - 3.0 - It's been too long since I've seen Revenant Blade used as an ingredient, more people should build with it (+0.5). And it took me a while to figure out where Snow Elves were from, so that's a bonus, but I would have preferred a better source list instead! (+0.25) But you took a 1 level dip into Paladin, so that's a negative (-0.5). And as long as we're in the "Originality" category, I'm gonna make my frowny face here, since you're taking famous names from Tolkien mythology and tacking them together. (-0.25).

    Power - 4.5 - A 28 point buy build? Okay, not docking you for it, but I think you forgot that Snow Elf gives you 2 points of Dex. Anyway, Ancestral Guidance 3 (or 4) times per day is a nice boost to power, and once you get Legendary Force online at 10th level (Which I note you forgot to list), you're a true killing machine with Power Attack. (+1) Dervish Dance synergizes very well with this (+0.25). And keeping Hide and Move Silently maxed for the Revanant Blade bonuses to those is an added touch (+0.25).

    Eloquence - 2.0 - Let's come back to that 1 level dip in Paladin. WHY? What did it give you? 4 ranks in Perform? Did you know you could have stayed in Ranger, gotten twice as many skill points, and bought the same 4 ranks as a cross class skill as well as picking up another Favored Enemy bonus? The resulting Inspire Courage ability is basically worthless and you do nothing to improve it. (-0.5) And I'm going to ding you for it again as you just mixed Eberron and Forgotten Realms in the same build with that one Paladin level. (-0.25) PLUS you seem to have forgotten about your INT bonus when purchasing skills for all your Ranger and Revenant Blade levels! (-0.25)

    Use of Special Ingredient - 4.25 - Though you went a little overboard and purchased more ranks than you were allowed, the Dervish required skills are indeed both maxed out (+0.5). And you have the power as noted above to boost Dervish Dance to frightening levels. (+0.5) Travel Devotion is a nice additive, but it comes so late and has no turn attempts to allow you to use it more often, I can't give it a large bonus (+0.25).

    This is easily one of the more lethal builds, and had you avoided that Paladin level and cleaned it up, you could easily have cleared 16 points. The Paladin dip was un-necessary, unsupported, and it truly cost you. Pity.


    Salvatore - 15.5 -

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    Originality - 3.5 - Well Factotum is a surprise (+0.25) and Master of Masks even more so (+0.5). The fighter dip is the only downside (-0.25)

    Power - 4.25 - Iaijutsu Focus and several tricks to make sure you can use it a lot (+1). Add in bonus damage from one or more maneuvers and feats (+0.25), and you have a really pointy combatant.

    Eloquence - 3.5 - This too has a single trick to make it's extra damage work, but it's powered by feats and has several ways of working (+0.5). I'd score it higher in eloquence if it had used less classes.

    Use of Special Ingredient - 4.25 - Iaijutsu plus Thousand Cuts... awesome (+0.5). Both class prereq skills maximized, check (+0.5). Other feats and skills generally add (+0.25).


    Kaycha - 13.75 -

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    Originality - 3.5 - Again, Binder is somewhat a rare choice (+0.5). Azurin is interesting, but incarnum binds aren't really a rarity around here. =)

    Power - 3.5 - What I'm not seeing is how Binder or Paragnostic adds to the effect of being a Dervish. You pick up either Whirlwind attack or some sneak attack dice here and there (+0.25) and some attention is given to knowledge devotion (+0.25), but you tack on no real power.

    Eloquence - 3.5 - One class, 1 PrC, 1 maxxed special ingredient PrC. Nice (+0.5). Binder doesn't quite provide versatility to improve the score any further, though.

    Use of Special Ingredient - 3.25 - Prerequisite skills get good attention, but are not maxxed out, so no bonus or penalty. I see some mild synergy with movement powers (+0.25), but not a lot else that makes Dervish perform at above base level.
    Last edited by gbprime; 2011-07-31 at 06:13 PM.
    .
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    Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone you may still exist but you have ceased to live. - Samuel Clemens

    Oh, and DFTBA.

  2. - Top - End - #182
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Private-Prinny's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXII

    You missed Kaycha. If she's not done in the next hour, I can't count those scores.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Moron View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    'Adding up numbers' is completely independent of roleplay. What you're saying makes as much sense as "peeling a banana is not a good way to drive."


  3. - Top - End - #183
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    gbprime's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXII

    Quote Originally Posted by Private-Prinny View Post
    You missed Kaycha. If she's not done in the next hour, I can't count those scores.
    Oops. Copy didn't scroll down far enough. Corrected.
    .
    Ding, You've Got Trophies!
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    Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone you may still exist but you have ceased to live. - Samuel Clemens

    Oh, and DFTBA.

  4. - Top - End - #184
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Private-Prinny's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXII

    Possibly the final tally?

    Tallies After Three Judges
    {table=head]ENTRY|PLACE|TOTAL|AVERAGE
    Sanavakri|GOLD|45.5|3.79
    The Bloodstained Hurricane|SILVER|44.75|3.73
    Kaycha|BRONZE|43.5|3.63
    Salvatore Serafines|Fourth|41.25|3.44
    Devlin Bladehands|Fifth|38.75|3.23
    Elrond Aldarion|Sixth|36.5|3.04
    Weylin|Seventh|35.25|2.94
    The Death of Xen'drik|Eighth|30.5|2.54
    Avander Shellivathan|Ninth|29.25|2.44[/table]
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Moron View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    'Adding up numbers' is completely independent of roleplay. What you're saying makes as much sense as "peeling a banana is not a good way to drive."


  5. - Top - End - #185
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Private-Prinny's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXII

    And the final standings are in.

    In 1st place, Urpriest's Sanavakri!
    In 2nd place, DeAnno's Bloodstained Hurricane!
    In 3rd place, Amphetryon's Kaycha!
    In 4th place, Z3ro's Salvatore Serafines!
    In 5th place, term1nally s1ck's Devlin Bladehands!
    In 6th place, yugi24862's Elrond Aldarion!
    In 7th place, kestrel404's Weylin!
    In 8th place, The Gilded Duke's Death of Xen'drik!
    In 9th place, BillyBobJoe's Avander Shellivathan!

    Congratulations to our 3 winners! I haven't been in touch with Jumilk, so I'll see if I can commission some trophies in the Arts & Crafts subforum. As for the honorable mention, no one has voted one way or the other, so I'll award it to Devlin Bladehands.

    I'll post the two builds that didn't quite make it on time in a little bit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Moron View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    'Adding up numbers' is completely independent of roleplay. What you're saying makes as much sense as "peeling a banana is not a good way to drive."


  6. - Top - End - #186
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXII

    Ouch. Completely missed the 1/day thing on the Tentacle Whip's Poison. Would have to completely redo the build to make it work. The Snake Arm grafts could have worked with a full BAB character and Improved Rapid Strike.

    Went through so many variations on the build... at one point was considering turning into a Gibbering Mouther with Aberration Wild Shape and a Wild Shape Ranger, but couldn't figure out anyway to get the six mouths to do any significant damage.
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  7. - Top - End - #187
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Private-Prinny's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXII

    These two didn't quite slip by the deadline, but I'll post them as a special treat. Essence_of_War brings us Solarius.

    Quote Originally Posted by Essence_of_War
    Basics:
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    Solarius
    32 Pt Buy
    Wood Elf from region of Valenar
    Str 16(18) Dex 15(17) Con 14(12) Int 14(12) Wis 10 Cha 8
    Str 30 Dex 28 Con 22 Int 12 Wis 10 Cha 8
    +3 tome/+6 item/+3 level pts for str
    +3 tome/+6 item/+2 level pt for dex
    +4 tome/+6 item for con


    Background:
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    Solarius is a Valeran wood elf from the world of Eberron. He was raised on the many tales of the famous wars with the giants of Xen'drik and was trained in the traditions of this line. Early in life, he was found to be strong as well as extraordinarily dextrous, even for an elf. He became a bladebearer, and then won himself a spot among the elite Revenant Blades. He continued developing some of his surveillance and espionage skills as an asset to the Revenant Blades.

    The Revenant Blades encouraged the practice of various artistic skills to aid warriors in the expression of their ancestral lines. Solarius took up the art of interpretive dance, and found that the lessons of dance crossed over to battle extraordinarily well.

    Among his peers, Solarius is known to fight like a force of nature. At the outset of battle, his pupils dilate, and he becomes wreathing, tornado of blades. His arcing strikes, swift footwork, and elegant bladeplay belie the incredible strength behind his blows.


    Build:
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    NAME OF ENTRY
    {table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

    1st|Ranger 1|
    +1
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |Listen 4, Spot 2, Survival 4, Knowledge(history) 2, Jump 4, MS 4, Hide 4, Climb 4|Bladebearer of the Valeran, Track(Rn)|Favored Enemy - Giant), Wild Empathy

    2nd|Ranger 2|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |Listen 1, Spot 1, Survival 1, Jump 1, MS 1, Hide 1, Climb 1|Two-Weapon Fighting|Combat Style - TWF

    3rd|Fighter 1|
    +3
    |
    +5
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |Perform(dance) 1, Jump 1|Power Attack, Weapon Focus (Valeran Double Scimitar)|-

    4th|Fighter 2|
    +4
    |
    +6
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |Perform(dance)1, Jump 1|Martial Study - Moment of Perfect Mind (DM)|-

    5th|Warblade 1|
    +5
    |
    +8
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |Tumble 5|-|Battle Clarity (reflex), Maneuvers, Weapon Aptitude

    6th|Revenant Blade 1|
    +6
    |
    +8
    |
    +3
    |
    +2
    |Survival 1, Perform(dance) 1, Concentrate 2|Improved Two-Weapon Fighting|Ancestral Guidance (1), Ranger Class Features, Hero of the Valles Tairn

    7th|Revenant Blade 2|
    +7
    |
    +8
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |Concentrate 2, Listen 1, Spot 1, Survival 1|-|Shadow of the Past

    8th|Revenant Blade 3|
    +8
    |
    +9
    |
    +4
    |
    +3
    |Concentrate 2, Listen 1, Spot 1, Survival 1|-|Ancestral Guidance (2)

    9th|Revenant Blade 4|
    +9
    |
    +9
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |Concentrate 2, Listen 1, Spot 1, Survival 1|Mobility (see below)|Giant Slayer

    10th|Revenant Blade 5|
    +10
    |
    +9
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |Concentrate 2, Listen 1, Spot 1, Survival 1| - |Ancestral Guidance (3), Legendary Force

    11th|Dervish 1|
    +11
    |
    +9
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |Concentrate 2, Perform(dance) 1, Tumble 1, Jump 1|-|Dervish Dance 1/day, movement mastery, slashing blades, AC Bonus +1

    12th|Dervish 2|
    +12
    |
    +9
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |Concentrate 2, Perform(dance) 1, Tumble 1, Listen 1|Two-Weapon Rend|Fast Movement +5ft

    13th|Dervish 3|
    +13
    |
    +10
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    |Concentrate 2, Perform(dance) 1, Tumble 1, Jump 1|Spring Attack (Dervish 3)|Dervish Dance 2/day

    14th|Dervish 4|
    +14
    |
    +10
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |Concentrate 1, Perform(dance) 2, Tumble 1, Listen 1|-|Dance of Death

    15th|Dervish 5|
    +15
    |
    +10
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    |Listen 1, Jump 1, Perform(dance) 1, Concentrate 1, Tumble 1|Greater Two-Weapon Fighting|Fast Movement +10ft, Dervish Dance 3/day, AC Bonus +2

    16th|Dervish 6|
    +16
    |
    +11
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    |Listen 1, Jump 1, Perform(dance) 1, Concentrate 1, Tumble 1|-|Improved Reaction

    17th|Dervish 7|
    +17
    |
    +11
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    |Listen 1, Jump 1, Perform(dance) 1, Concentrate 1, Tumble 1|-|Elaborate Parry, Dervish Dance 4/day

    18th|Dervish 8|
    +18
    |
    +11
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    |Listen 1, Jump 1, Perform(dance) 1, Concentrate 1, Tumble 1|Elusive Target|Fast Movement +15ft

    19th|Dervish 9|
    +19
    |
    +12
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    |Listen 1, Jump 1, Perform(dance) 1, Concentrate 1, Tumble 1|-|Tireless Dance, Dervish Dance 5/day, AC Bonus +3

    20th|Dervish 10|
    +20
    |
    +12
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    |Listen 1, Jump 1, Perform(dance) 1, Concentrate 1, Tumble 1|-|A thousand cuts[/table]

    Martial Maneuvers:
    1st - Moment of Perfect Mind (available at 4th+); Sudden Leap (5th+); Wolf Fang Strike (5th+)
    2nd - Emerald Razor (5th+)

    Stance: Blood in the Water (5th+)

    All readied.



    General Notes:
    Spoiler
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    The biggest problem for TWFs is how to get enough damage to compete with the THF. Some methods are to gain lots of attacks through the various feat chains, enhance mobility to maximize number of full attacks, and finding alternative sources of extra damage e.g. sneak attack, skirmish.

    The Revenant Blade PrC dodges the need to jump through damage source hoops by treating both ends of its double scimitar as a THF weapon, and then the Warblade Dip and Dervish prestige class bring excellent mobility in the form of Sudden Leap, and the dervish dance; ensuring that the character will be full attacking almost every round. We gain all the usual benefits of power attacking, but now we get the additional perks of extra attacks, and mobility.

    I could have used a 1-level BBN dip to get pounce instead of the Warblade dip. I feel like the former is a bit...overused...and I really like the flexbility that the Warblade maneuvers give him. Sudden Leap and Wolf Fang Strike gives him a pseudo-pounce, Sudden Leap + Emerald Razor give him a pseudo Shock Trooper. You get a lot of the feel of a charger build, you're probably still doing great damage, but you're probably not creating metagame damage concerns.

    Finally, I'm taking advantage of the Revenant Blade's Ancestral Guardian class ability to pick up qualification feats for the Dervish class. I discuss this more below in the level 10 stuff.


    Circa Level 5
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    At low levels, Solarius can serve as a scout/infiltrator. Since the best patch-up spells are on the ranger list, he can act as the out of combat healer, and since he has TWF, and a high strength from the get-go he can strike effectively in melee.

    Level 5 is especially nice because he now has access to Wolf Fang Strike to get off move + 2 attacks, Sudden Leap to get around the battlefield, and Emerald Razor exploits the fact that the double scimitar can be used as a THF weapon to do some power attacking!


    Circa Level 10:
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    Here's where things get interesting.

    The Revenant Blade PrC provides essentially 3 bonus feats over the course of 5 levels. I noted that Solarius' Mobility feat at 9th level is contingent, this is because Solarius gains the benefit of Dodge from his Ancestral Guardian class feature each day. Similarly with Combat Expertise. This method allows him to meet all of the requirements to be a Dervish. He must be careful though. If he is unable to commune with his Ancestral Guardians for at least an hour each day, he can lose all of the benefits of the Dervish class until he is able to do so again.

    At 10th level, he now has two THF weapons, 5 attacks on a full attack, or the option to Emerald Razor for a huge power attack.


    Circa 12th Level (Sweet Spot):
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    I chose this as the sweet spot because all of his basic abilities are online, and he isn't high enough level to get overshadowed by the increasing magical abilities of his enemies.

    1) We have the THF (10th) online.
    2) Dervish 1 (11th) gives us the dervish dance.
    3) 2Wpn Rend comes online at 12th level as a source of extra damage.

    We have mobility as discussed earlier, the damage capacity of power attacking with our THF weapons, plus the ability to move while full attacking!


    Higher Levels:
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    We don't really gain any new abilities until "A Thousand Cuts" comes line at 20th level. However, we do develop our previous abilities and are able to dervish dance in even more encounters each day. We keep our full BAB, and at 18th level, are able to negate power attacks with our Elusive Target feat. This could easily be swapped with Greater 2Wpn Fighting. The marginal benefit of one more attack at -10 is not that great compared with the ability to negate power attacks.


    Equipment Suggestions:
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    High dex allows Solarius to take full advantage of light armors. Celestial Armor looks like an ideal pick at mid-high levels as it allows him the ability to fly also.

    We run into the usual WBL issues with having multiple weapons. Depending on the contents of the party, this could partially negated by a friendly caster who can gives you 2 GMWs each day. If not, obviously the highest raw enhancement bonus you can get is best, and I'm partial to the Collision property from the XPH/SRD for extra damage.

    Because he has a relatively llow con bonus, going for con enhancement items, especially early on, is highly recommended.

    Quotebox
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Moron View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    'Adding up numbers' is completely independent of roleplay. What you're saying makes as much sense as "peeling a banana is not a good way to drive."


  8. - Top - End - #188
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXII

    Wewt, about time I won one of these! Looking forward to a trophy if they happen.

    I was actually really surprised how well the build clicked into place. Most of its tricks came online within a short span of levels (for example, Ironheart Aura is only a level before Stormguard Warrior). Thanks goes to the absent Shinken's Guide to Defensive Fighting, which pointed out the wonders of Dancing with Shadows. I'm also really surprised at that missing feat, seeing as the build involved a lot of feat planning to get everything in, I thought I would notice a free slot. I also feel like I was the only build that had a reason to take 10 on Perform(dance), albeit a weak reason.
    Lord Raziere herd I like Blasphemy, so Urpriest Exalted as a Malefactor

    Meet My Monstrous Guide to Monsters. Everything you absolutely need to know about Monsters and never thought you needed to ask.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mithril Leaf View Post
    One of the unwritten rules of Giantitp is that Urpriest is always right.
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    original Urpriest (by Andraste)

  9. - Top - End - #189
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXII

    Akal Saris submitted Taern the Rover.

    Quote Originally Posted by Akal Saris
    Taern the Rover
    CN Wild Elf Ranger 2/Warblade 1/Fighter 2

    The Tale:
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    I

    In lost ages long past, when mankind was still a scattered band of hill-tribes and plains-riders, elves and giants battled amongst the grand cities of Xen'drik. The elves were not the creatures of beauty and nobility that they are today. Yet a wild grace they had, and courage, and a fierce love of war. They lived moment to moment, caring not for the past, save that their ancestors would greet them when at last they reached Corellon's halls. Nor were the giants the hulking brutes that they are today. They were majestic, awesome in their primordial might, lords of a thousand cities.

    All that was once mighty and glorious is now dust, and we are now but gnomes standing atop the shoulders of those that were once giants. The giants sank into depravity and ruin, and from their once-mighty empires came dozens of races and peoples, who spread across the land, grew mighty, fell into a thousand shattered pieces, and grew in might once more.

    Among this shattered land came a man of ancient blood and youthful lusts, who saw the shattered world for the jest it held, and loved it all the more dear. Hither came Taern, the Valenar, raven-haired, amber-eyed, a sea-reaver, a ranger, a rover, with blade in hand and a thousand tales in tow. This tale begins in Xen'drik, land of a thousand mourning ends.

    It was well past midnight, and Taern stood alone in the Great Hall of Kol Korran, God of Trade and Wealth, Son of Olladra and Olatar, Twin Brother to the Keeper. The names meant nothing to Taern, who cared no more for the Sovereign Host than he did for the Dark Six. The gods of civilized races are nothing to a Reaver of Valenar, who worships no god, save his own ancestors. There would be no one to judge him upon his death, when cold hands grasped him and took him to misty lands of darkness and cold. Yet his ancestors had given him life, and the strength to face it, and what man could ask for more?

    The Great Hall was home to a thousand wonders of commerce and trade, from distant lands. Here was a Chalice forged in Thrace, and there, a beautiful mosaic created by the trembling hands of a dozen Aundairian war-captives. Taern ignored these wonders of civilization, for what use did a man of steel and blood have for glittering prizes? The prize he sought was set deep within the Hall. Yet as he stalked panther-like through the Hall, he heard a sound as familiar to him as the call of birds and beasts. Steel rang on steel somewhere within the Hall, accompanied by the colorful oaths and roars of battle. A fierce grin sprang unbidden Taern's his face, and he ran forward, bit by curiosity and love of adventure.

    II

    The fight went hard for Valeros di Carenzi, and for the thousandth time he swore to himself never to hire rogues and scoundrels of an evil disposition. He locked blades once more with Piravno the Air-Reaver, snarling with the fury of a man who had spent his life knowing that he was privileged to a life of luxury and power, only to discover that a wild rogue dared to betray him first, and all for a prize that Valeros was long-weary of, yet guarded still with the pride of a hoard-drunk dragon.

    Sweat mixed with blood and ran down Valeros's face in rivulets. His men had fallen like scattered rose petals around him, blood blossoming from a dozen cuts in each of them. Piravno and his lads stalked closer to the nobleman, laughing like hyenas, grinning like devils. Valeros desperately fumbled at his side for a vial of the juice of the Black Lotus, the obtaining of which was a tale in itself, but he knew himself to be at his end.

    As Valeros locked glares with Death, a shriek at the back of the mob rose up, a wild scream that seemed to hang in the air forever. Shrieks and curses soon followed as the cuttroats turned in panic to face their new assailant. Taern the Rover stood before them, an air-reaver on the floor at his feet, bleeding his guts out onto an Aundairian mosaic. Taern's amber eyes burned with battle-lust, his body swaying rhythmically like a cobra's dance. Torchlight glistened from Taern's bronzed body, moving with the grace of a hunting cat, and a marvelous sword leapt into his hands. The sword was unlike any other in Stormreach, a solid five feet of curved steel that formed an S-pattern, like two scimitars fused into a single, terrible weapon. Taern held in a shifting grip, and every man among the rovers could sense the terrible muscles that could propel that steel forward in a single instant. The air-dogs began to waver in indecision.

    “At him, lads! It's ten against one!” snarled Piravno, and in so doing, lost his crew, his air-ship, his love, and his life. Taern broke out of his dance suddenly, striking forward like a serpent. He glided forward, the sword catching the ship's mate and another reaver in the gut, then glancing forward to turn aside a pair of long-knives, and arcing under the knife-wielder's feet. The man went down on the ground, and instantly the strange weapon rose and fell, slicing the man's head like a guillotine. The blade flashed thrice more in the torchlight, and three more reavers fell, along along with them the torch-light. Shouts and then screams echoed throughout the hall, the stranger's dark-vision finding two more reavers easily in the darkness, his pupils gleaming yellow in the darkness like a wolves' eyes.

    Piravno the Air-Reaver scooped up the fallen torch in one hand, his saber in the other, and came at the stranger with murder in his eyes. A leader of scoundrels and cutthroats, in his battle-cunning he led with the saber, yet at the last moment he instead threw the brand straight at the stranger's face, where it exploded in a shower of sparks. The stranger fought on desperately, despite his blindness, springing forward to stab the last of Piravno's rogues in the gut and then dancing back. Piravno saw it then – an opening in the whirling circle of blades, one that the blinded warrior clearly hadn't realized! He glided forward, his blade aimed straight and true for the stranger's neck. His blade stopped, a moment from piercing the stranger's jugular, and he looked down to see the stranger's blade, buried into his chest up to the hilt. How did he know? Piravno died then, an incredulous question on his lips.

    With the battle over, Valeros di Carenzi stepped forward incredulously. The bronze-skinned warrior ignored him, cleaning the blood from his scimitar-blade. “Ho! What manner of man are you?” Valeros asked, with the voice of a man who is used to prompt answers. The stranger glanced over at him without interest.

    “Kah! A noble-man? I thought for certain those rogues were fighting over a lady,” he said with scorn, his voice tinged with a strange accent that Valeros did not recognize. Valeros stiffened at the response and instinctively looked towards the shadows of the Great Hall. The stranger followed his gaze, and marked a dainty form, sitting calmly and watching him with keen interest. Her eyes were light blue, and her skin as fair as alabaster, paler even than the silken cloth that accented her womanly figure. The stranger's eyes darkened as he gazed upon her, and the woman looked at him in fascination, as one might contemplate a hunting-cat as it stalked towards you. She noted his long black hair, and the surprisingly noble face. His eyes were slanted like an elf, though the amber fire that burned in those eyes was unlike any elf the girl had ever seen. She realized that he was watching her every bit as closely as she was watching him, and looked away with sudden embarrassment.

    “The pirate's woman,” Valeros said dismissively, and he began to glower as the stranger paid her more attention than him. "Your name, sirrah,” Valeros said, with impatient disdain. The blade-bearer had been stupid than he looked, to address him – a scion of House Di Carenzi! - so casually. That was good, then – with both his own men and Piravno's crew dead, Valeros had need of a new servant tonight.

    “Taern, of Valenar,” the blade-bearer said. The word meant nothing to Valeros, except that he dimly associated it with the far south-west, an arid land of hills and plains, without city or town for hundreds of miles. If he spoke truth, then surely the tall stranger was far from home indeed.

    “Well, then. I have need of a strong man tonight. You will be well-paid,”
    he said dismissively, tossing a pouch of coins to the man's feet, where they landed with a soft clink. Taern picked the pouch up and gave it a wary shake, the smile on his face growing wider.

    “It is a deal,” he said, his voice surprisingly deep and strangely accented. “What work do we do tonight?”

    III

    Okay, I need to actually work on the build some more now! I'll finish Taern's tale after the contest if there is any interest...


    CN Wild Elf Ranger 2/Warblade 1/Fighter 2
    Stats 32 PB
    Str: 18
    Dex: 16
    Con: 14
    Int: 12
    Wis: 8
    Cha: 8
    Stat boosts: L4: Int (to qualify for Combat Expertise), L8-20: Str

    At 20th with a +4 inherent tome for Strength and +6 Belt of Magnificence:
    Str: 32
    Dex: 22
    Con: 20
    Int: 19
    Wis: 14
    Cha: 14

    TAERN THE ROVER
    {table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack[br]Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

    1st|Ranger 1|
    +1
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |7: Hide 4R, M. Silently 4R, Perform (Dance) 2R (cc), Ride 4R, Concentration 4R, Tumble 2R (cc), Survival 4R|Bladebearer of the Valenar (PGtE Pg. 142), Track[Ranger Bonus]|Wild Empathy, Favored Enemy (Humanoid: Human)

    2nd|Ranger 2|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    | Hide 5R, M. Silently 5R, Perform (Dance) 2R (cc), Ride 5R, Concentration 5R, Tumble 2R (cc), Survival 5R, Knowledge (Nature) 4R, Balance 2R (cc) |Two-Weapon Fighting [Ranger 2]|Bonus feat (TWF)

    3rd|Rgr 2/Warblade 1|
    +3
    |
    +5
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    | Hide 5R, M. Silently 5R, Perform (Dance) 2R (cc), Ride 5R, Concentration 6R, Tumble 5R (2cc and 3C), Survival 5R, Knowledge (Nature) 4R, Balance 2R (cc), Knowledge (History) 2R| Weapon Focus (Valenar Double scimitar)|Battle Clarity (Reflex +1), weapon aptitude. Stances: Blood in the Water. Maneuvers: Wolf Fang Strike, Sudden Leap, Moment of Perfect Mind

    4th| Rgr 2/Warblade 1/Fighter 1|
    +4
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    | Hide 5R, M. Silently 5R, Perform (Dance) 3R (cc), Ride 5R, Concentration 6R, Tumble 5R (2cc and 3C), Survival 5R, Jump 2R, Knowledge (Nature) 4R, Balance 2R (cc), Knowledge (History) 2R |Combat Expertise [Ftr 1]|Feat

    5th| Rgr 2/Warblade 1/Fighter 2|
    +5
    |
    +8
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    | Hide 5R, M. Silently 5R, Perform (Dance) 3R (cc), Ride 5R, Concentration 7R (1R cc), Tumble 5R (2cc and 3C), Survival 5R, Jump 4R, Knowledge (Nature) 4R, Balance 2R (cc), Knowledge (History) 2R |Dodge [Ftr 2]|Feat

    6th| Rgr 2/Warblade 1/Fighter 2/Revenant Blade 1|
    +6
    |
    +8
    |
    +3
    |
    +2
    | Hide 5R, M. Silently 5R, Perform (Dance) 3R (cc), Ride 5R, Concentration 7R (1R cc), Tumble 5R (2cc and 3C), Survival 9R, Jump 5R, Knowledge (Nature) 5R, Balance 2R (cc), Knowledge (History) 2R |Karmic Strike, Weapon Specialization (Double Scimitar) [RB 1], Improved Critical (Double Scimitar) [RB 1 – Zaelshin Tu]|Ancestral Guidance 1 (Bonus feats), Hero of the Valaes Tairn (+5 diplomacy with Valenar elves)

    7th| Rgr 2/Warblade 1/Fighter 2/Revenant Blade 2|
    +7
    |
    +8
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    | Hide 5R, M. Silently 5R, Perform (Dance) 3R (cc), Ride 5R, Concentration 7R (1R cc), Tumble 5R (2cc and 3C), Survival 9R, Jump 5R, Knowledge (Nature) 5R, Balance 2R (cc), Knowledge (History) 2R, Spot 6R | |Shadow of the Past (Add level to Hide/M. Silently)

    8th| Rgr 2/Warblade 1/Fighter 2/Revenant Blade 3|
    +8
    |
    +9
    |
    +4
    |
    +3
    | Hide 8R, M. Silently 8R, Perform (Dance) 3R (cc), Ride 5R, Concentration 7R (1R cc), Tumble 5R (2cc and 3C), Survival 9R, Jump 5R, Knowledge (Nature) 5R, Balance 2R (cc), Knowledge (History) 2R, Spot 6R |Improved Trip [RB 3] |Ancestral Guidance 2

    9th| Rgr 2/Warblade 1/Fighter 2/Revenant Blade 4|
    +9
    |
    +9
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    | Hide 9R, M. Silently 8R, Perform (Dance) 3R (cc), Ride 5R, Concentration 7R (1R cc), Tumble 5R (2cc and 3C), Survival 12R, Jump 5R, Knowledge (Nature) 5R, Balance 2R (cc), Knowledge (History) 2R, Spot 8R |Mobility |FE: Giants +4

    10th| Rgr 2/Warblade 1/Fighter 2/Revenant Blade 5|
    +10
    |
    +9
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    | Hide 12R, M. Silently 11R, Perform (Dance) 3R (cc), Ride 5R, Concentration 7R (1R cc), Tumble 5R (2cc and 3C), Survival 12R, Jump 5R, Knowledge (Nature) 5R, Balance 2R (cc), Knowledge (History) 2R, Spot 8R |Power Attack [RB 5] |Ancestral Guidance 3, Legendary Force (Treat both ends of the double scimitar as two-handed weapons)

    11th| Rgr 2/Warblade 1/Fighter 2/Revenant Blade 5/Dervish 1|
    +11
    |
    +9
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    | Hide 12R, M. Silently 11R, Perform (Dance) 9R (3cc), Ride 5R, Concentration 7R (1R cc), Tumble 5R (2cc and 3C), Survival 12R, Jump 5R, Knowledge (Nature) 5R, Balance 2R (cc), Knowledge (History) 2R, Spot 8R | |Dervish Dance 1/day, movement mastery, slashing blades, +1 AC

    12th| Rgr 2/Warblade 1/Fighter 2/Revenant Blade 5/Dervish 2|
    +12
    |
    +9
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    | Hide 12R, M. Silently 11R, Perform (Dance) 15R (3cc), Ride 5R, Concentration 7R (1R cc), Tumble 5R (2cc and 3C), Survival 12R, Jump 5R, Knowledge (Nature) 5R, Balance 2R (cc), Knowledge (History) 2R, Spot 8R | Elusive Target|Fast Movement +5ft

    13th| Rgr 2/Warblade 1/Fighter 2/Revenant Blade 5/Dervish 3|
    +13
    |
    +10
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    | Hide 12R, M. Silently 11R, Perform (Dance) 16R (3cc), Ride 5R, Concentration 7R (1R cc), Tumble 5R (2cc and 3C), Survival 12R, Jump 5R, Knowledge (Nature) 5R, Balance 5R (2cc, 3C), Knowledge (History) 2R, Spot 8R, Skill Trick: Nimble Charge | |Spring Attack, Dance 2/day

    14th| Rgr 2/Warblade 1/Fighter 2/Revenant Blade 5/Dervish 4|
    +14
    |
    +10
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    | Hide 12R, M. Silently 11R, Perform (Dance) 16R (3cc), Ride 5R, Concentration 7R (1R cc), Tumble 8R (2cc and 6C), Survival 12R, Jump 5R, Knowledge (Nature) 5R, Balance 6R (2cc, 4C), Knowledge (History) 2R, Spot 8R, Skill Tricks: Nimble Charge, Nimble Stand | |Dance of Death (Cleave)

    15th| Rgr 2/Warblade 1/Fighter 2/Revenant Blade 5/Dervish 5|
    +15
    |
    +10
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    | Hide 12R, M. Silently 11R, Perform (Dance) 18R (3cc), Ride 5R, Concentration 7R (1R cc), Tumble 8R (2cc and 6C), Survival 12R, Jump 5R, Knowledge (Nature) 5R, Balance 6R (2cc, 4C), Knowledge (History) 2R, Spot 8R, Skill Tricks: Nimble Charge, Nimble Stand, Twisted Charge, Shrouded Dance |Combat Reflexes |Dance 3/day, Fast Movement +10ft, +2 AC

    16th| Rgr 2/Warblade 1/Fighter 2/Revenant Blade 5/Dervish 6|
    +16
    |
    +11
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    | Hide 12R, M. Silently 11R, Perform (Dance) 18R (3cc), Ride 5R, Concentration 7R (1R cc), Tumble 12R (2cc and 10C), Survival 12R, Jump 5R, Knowledge (Nature) 5R, Balance 6R (2cc, 4C), Knowledge (History) 2R, Spot 8R, Skill Tricks: Nimble Charge, Nimble Stand, Twisted Charge, Shrouded Dance, Back on Your Feet | |Improved Reaction (+2 init)

    17th| Rgr 2/Warblade 1/Fighter 2/Revenant Blade 5/Dervish 7|
    +17
    |
    +11
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    | Hide 12R, M. Silently 11R, Perform (Dance) 20R (3cc), Ride 5R, Concentration 7R (1R cc), Tumble 12R (2cc and 10C), Survival 12R, Jump 5R, Knowledge (Nature) 5R, Balance 10R (2cc, 8C), Knowledge (History) 2R, Spot 8R, Skill Tricks: Nimble Charge, Nimble Stand, Twisted Charge, Shrouded Dance, Back on Your Feet | |Elaborate Parry (+4 on defensive/full defense), Dance 4/day

    18th| Rgr 2/Warblade 1/Fighter 2/Revenant Blade 5/Dervish 8|
    +18
    |
    +11
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    | Hide 12R, M. Silently 11R, Perform (Dance) 20R (3cc), Ride 5R, Concentration 7R (1R cc), Tumble 12R (2cc and 10C), Survival 12R, Jump 10R, Knowledge (Nature) 5R, Balance 11R (2cc, 8C), Knowledge (History) 2R, Spot 8R, Skill Tricks: Nimble Charge, Nimble Stand, Twisted Charge, Shrouded Dance, Back on Your Feet |Evasive Reflexes (ToB) |Fast Movement +15ft

    19th| Rgr 2/Warblade 1/Fighter 2/Revenant Blade 5/Dervish 9|
    +19
    |
    +12
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    | Hide 12R, M. Silently 11R, Perform (Dance) 22R (3cc), Ride 5R, Concentration 7R (1R cc), Tumble 14R (2cc and 12C), Survival 12R, Jump 12R, Knowledge (Nature) 5R, Balance 11R (2cc, 9C), Knowledge (History) 2R, Spot 8R, Skill Tricks: Nimble Charge, Nimble Stand, Twisted Charge, Shrouded Dance, Back on Your Feet | |Tireless Dance, Dance 5/day, +3 AC

    20th| Rgr 2/Warblade 1/Fighter 2/Revenant Blade 5/Dervish 10|
    +20
    |
    +12
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    | Hide 12R, M. Silently 11R, Perform (Dance) 22R (3cc), Ride 5R, Concentration 7R (1R cc), Tumble 14R (2cc and 12C), Survival 12R, Jump 18R, Knowledge (Nature) 5R, Balance 11R (2cc, 9C), Knowledge (History) 2R, Spot 8R, Skill Tricks: Nimble Charge, Nimble Stand, Twisted Charge, Shrouded Dance, Back on Your Feet | |A Thousand Cuts[/table]

    What's going on here: I’ve been reading a lot of Robert Howard’s short stories, and so when I saw the dervish prestige class, I immediately wanted to make a character that could have sprang from the pages of Conan the Barbarian (hence the pulp fiction-esque intro story!). Often it takes me some time to decide on what class to compliment the main ingredient, but this was one of those rare cases where I knew immediately that Revenant Blade was the class I was looking for. It comes from a slightly obscure source, but it fits perfectly with the dervish, and worked well with my concept for a quintessential dervish-style fighter: extremely mobile, hard-hitting, and hard to hit.

    In a fight, Taern moves to opponents with Karmic Strike active, relying on elusive target, mobility, and the dervish's elaborate parry to dodge attacks of opportunity. On each attack of opportunity taken against him, Taern can either gain +5ft of movement from Evasive Reflexes (and use that movement to avoid the AOO if he wishes), or attack back with one end of his double scimitar, using power attack as if it were a two-handed weapon, and he also gains a trip attack from elusive target, which combined with Improved Trip translates into a second attack against a prone target if successful. As he moves, his dervish dance gives +5 to attack and damage, great cleave, and the ability to make up to 7 attacks each round (assuming Haste and Gloves of the Balanced Hand, a mere 20K in items by level 20). At the end of his attack, Taern can then use the Sudden Leap maneuver to move away from opponents if necessary.

    What's Revenant Blade give you, anyways? It gives 4 fighter feats from a small list in 5 levels, including the only way I know of to gain Improved Critical as early as level 6. Favored Enemy +4 vs. Giants. +5 to Hide/Move Silently. The capstone is where REAL the synergy with dervish comes from: the revenant blade may treat each end of a double scimitar as a two-handed weapon when favorable, allowing the revenant blade to use 1 ½ Strength to damage and 2:1 power attack, and gain +4 to trip attempts in conjunction with elusive target.

    Why delay Dervish?
    The core ability from dervish is its dance, however the ability to move and full attack doesn’t mean very much until you have several attacks per round. By delaying entry, the build uses revenant blade to build up a core of strong feats and high BAB before advancing dervish dance.

    How does he work:
    Taern is a melee tank, skirmisher, and damage-dealing character. His secondary abilities include tracker (survival and track) and scout (decent ranks in spot, hide, and move silently). He's viable at all levels, and really comes into his own at ECL 6, 12, and 18.

    At low levels he has wolf fang strike and sudden leap, allowing him to move and attack with both weapons twice per combat, and moment of clarity, which allows him to use a concentration check in place of a will save. At level 6 he gains Karmic Strike, Weapon Spec (Double Scimitar), and Improved Critical (Double Scimitar), a trio of good feats that ensure that his damage output will likely exceed his opponents’ damage. Assuming a +1 weapon and +2 strength gloves, his full attacks will be for +10/+10/+5 for 1d8+8 and 1d8+5, 15-20/x2. With warblade’s Blood in the Water stance, every critical hit gives Taern a cumulative +1/+1 Attack/Damage, so the more attacks he makes, the stronger his attacks become.

    At ECL 12, Taern has mobility, which grants +4 AC against AOO’s (negating the -4 penalty from Karmic Strike), and also Elusive Target, which negates the bonus damage from power attack used against him, forces flanking opponents to “accidentally” strike their ally 1/round whenever Taern is flanked, and granting a free trip attack whenever a foe misses you from an AOO from movement (with +4 from Improved Trip, and another +4 from treating scimitars as a two-handed weapons. Combined with Karmic Strike and the free attack from Improved Trip, that means two attacks of opportunity granted to Taern for every AOO taken on his movement. In addition, he now treats both ends of the scimitar as a two-handed weapon and has power attack (gained at 10th level, the same level that he gains legendary force), allowing him to deal excellent damage on each attack. With dervish attack, he can make 4 attacks per round, with 1 AOO from Karmic Strike and as many trip attacks as AOO attempts that he provokes.

    Once Taern reaches ECL 15 and has a +6 Dex item, he can make 7 AOO’s a round with Combat Reflexes, allowing him to fully take advantage of elusive target and karmic strike, and become a whirlwind of non-stop attacks of opportunity and mobile blades. If he is in a dervish dance when one of his AOO’s or standard attacks kills an opponent, he can then cleave into another opponent with Dance of Death. He has Dervish 3/day for 9 rounds each use, enough for a standard adventuring day. He also picks up several skill tricks: Nimble Charge (charge over difficult terrain), Nimble Stand (No AOO’s from standing), Twisted Charge (1 direction change per charge), and Shrouded Dance (move action for concealment for 1 round). Each is usable 1/encounter, and gives Taern more stylish combat options each fight.

    At ECL 18, Taern gets his last feat, Evasive Reflexes, which allows him to move 5ft in place of taking an attack of opportunity. This allows him to cover more ground with dervish dance and to move out of range of full attacks, and fits very well with the mobile fighting style of dervish. The +4 to AC from Dervish’s Elaborate Parry means that with Dodge, Mobility, Dervish’s +3 AC, fighting defensively, and Combat Expertise, Taern gets +20 to AC at the cost of -7 to attacks. Spring Attack also gives Taern another mobile attack option when Dervish Dance isn’t feasible.

    Optional cheese:
    If allowed, the Drow Ftr 1 substitution would trade Fighter's useless heavy armor proficiency for dexterity to damage against flat-footed foes. Champions of Valor's Darksong Knight level 2 fighter substitution level would also give Perform (Dance) as a class skill, and would allow the character to use Perform (Dance) to feint in place of bluff. I declined to take it since it would introduce Forgotten Realms material into the build.

    Flaws: If flaws are allowed, the build is basically sped up a great deal, and would allow the build to take a few more offensive feats at the end, like Improved TWF and Greater TWF, or Double-Hit, or Whirlwind Attack.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Moron View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    'Adding up numbers' is completely independent of roleplay. What you're saying makes as much sense as "peeling a banana is not a good way to drive."


  10. - Top - End - #190
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    gbprime's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXII

    Nice job all around. Dervish is hard to do wrong, so the trick to judging was to find what people had done RIGHT and highlight it.

    I was surprised to see that no one thought to bust the action economy with it by hooking up Three Mountains or Boomerang Daze or somesuch to all those attacks against multiple opponents. But the number of consistantly strong extra-damage methods was impressive.
    .
    Ding, You've Got Trophies!
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    Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone you may still exist but you have ceased to live. - Samuel Clemens

    Oh, and DFTBA.

  11. - Top - End - #191
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXII

    Hey look, another 3rd place snag for me. . . .
    Iron Chef in the Playground veteran since Round IV. Play as me!


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  12. - Top - End - #192
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    Private-Prinny's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXII

    And with amazing speed, we have back our illustrious trophysmith Strategos!







    Quotebox
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    'Adding up numbers' is completely independent of roleplay. What you're saying makes as much sense as "peeling a banana is not a good way to drive."


  13. - Top - End - #193
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXII

    So, Prinny (and anyone else), how do you feel the efforts at streamlining went?

    Also, any plans for the next round?
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  14. - Top - End - #194
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXII

    Personally, I'm feeling like it should be clear that dipping is harshly punished in the elegance category.

    I asked, and in almost a week I get one response saying it's fine if the classes make sense.

    With that in mind, I go for the leanest, most obvious progression *possible*, heading through Unarmed training into 'sword' training into the sublime way.

    I proceed to get -0.5 from most every judge for every class that doesn't have 3+ levels.

    I know now for next time, but it's hardly fair on new contestants that the criteria for judging are so heavily leaning towards one side of an oft-debated topic with no warning.
    Last edited by term1nally s1ck; 2011-07-31 at 09:17 PM.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXII

    Lots of Revenant Blades this round, though there weren't any Tempests, which seems like a natural follow up, which may be to avoid originality hits.

    Also, I'd love to see where Akal's fluff ends. Cliffhanger backstory!

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  16. - Top - End - #196
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXII

    Tempest is an obvious followup...but it really isn't good. Barely boosts your power by anything.

  17. - Top - End - #197
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXII

    Maybe some sort of caster class next time? War Weaver?
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXII

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    So, Prinny (and anyone else), how do you feel the efforts at streamlining went?

    Also, any plans for the next round?
    I think the timeframe speaks for itself. This competition had 7 days for building, and 14 days for judging (21 days). Let's compare that to the last four rounds:

    Ghostwalker: 14 days to build, 40 days to judge (54 days).
    Incandescent Champion: 14 days to build, 19 days to judge (33 days).
    Dread Pirate: 9 days to build, 19 days to judge (28 days).
    Unseelie Dark Hunter: 7 days to build, 29 days to judge (36 days).

    The Ghostwalker competition is unfair to criticize due to extenuating circumstances, but even beyond that, we've finished a full week ahead of the next fastest. The other two were beaten by an even larger margin. I'm sure Ponies has an even more complete timetable sitting somewhere in that spreadsheet of his, so he should be able to give us a bit more info.

    As for the next round, I will put the next competition up on Wednesday. Feel free to flood me with PrC suggestions in the meantime.
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  19. - Top - End - #199
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXII

    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBobJoe View Post
    Maybe some sort of caster class next time? War Weaver?
    The problem with War Weaver would be doing something that would get Originality points as well as Use of Secret Ingredient without simultaneously bottoming out your Elegance score...
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXII

    Would there be much interest in a Pathfinder Iron Chef? Perhaps as another side contest?
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXII

    Maybe, I have seen a lot of threads specifying pathfinder so probably there would be enough interest
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  22. - Top - End - #202
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXII

    Quote Originally Posted by term1nally s1ck View Post
    Personally, I'm feeling like it should be clear that dipping is harshly punished in the elegance category.

    I asked, and in almost a week I get one response saying it's fine if the classes make sense.

    With that in mind, I go for the leanest, most obvious progression *possible*, heading through Unarmed training into 'sword' training into the sublime way.

    I proceed to get -0.5 from most every judge for every class that doesn't have 3+ levels.

    I know now for next time, but it's hardly fair on new contestants that the criteria for judging are so heavily leaning towards one side of an oft-debated topic with no warning.
    It is a judge by judge basis. Most count off on it, but not required. Some gave points for a really slick way into the PrC.
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  23. - Top - End - #203
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXII

    Reading back through a couple of competitions, it seems to be constant that judges mark you down for 1-2 level dips.

  24. - Top - End - #204
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXII

    Heh. Both of the 2 builds that didn't make it were Revenant Blade blade builds using the exact build given in the Revenant Blade handbook. If I had time to tidy the build up and remember to use 32 points instead of 28, i might have got 5th. Still, did quite well for a rushed entry.

  25. - Top - End - #205
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXII

    Quote Originally Posted by term1nally s1ck View Post
    Personally, I'm feeling like it should be clear that dipping is harshly punished in the elegance category.

    I asked, and in almost a week I get one response saying it's fine if the classes make sense.

    With that in mind, I go for the leanest, most obvious progression *possible*, heading through Unarmed training into 'sword' training into the sublime way.

    I proceed to get -0.5 from most every judge for every class that doesn't have 3+ levels.

    I know now for next time, but it's hardly fair on new contestants that the criteria for judging are so heavily leaning towards one side of an oft-debated topic with no warning.
    I actually kind of agree. This being my first time judging I sort of went with what seemed standard and docked points for dips and cross-setting material. In my games, I really don't actually give a crap about all that, since I tend to leave the fluff aside when it comes to character generation. I think my next time judging will likely reflect that approach a bit more.

    Anyway, nice builds all around and congratulations to all contestants! I realize some of my scores were a bit rough compared to the other judges and I hope I didn't offend. If I did, I apologize and please speak up so next time I'll know to tone it down a bit.

  26. - Top - End - #206
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXII

    I think the streamlining made everything move faster, but I think we may want to extend the creation timeline to 14 days.

    Quote Originally Posted by gbprime View Post
    Nice job all around. Dervish is hard to do wrong, so the trick to judging was to find what people had done RIGHT and highlight it.

    I was surprised to see that no one thought to bust the action economy with it by hooking up Three Mountains or Boomerang Daze or somesuch to all those attacks against multiple opponents. But the number of consistantly strong extra-damage methods was impressive.
    I was trying with one of my builds using the old Lightning Maces w/ Keen Aptitude Kukris trick, but there were just too many feats that needed to go around that it wouldn't have been very elegant to smash them all in.

    Quote Originally Posted by term1nally s1ck View Post
    Personally, I'm feeling like it should be clear that dipping is harshly punished in the elegance category.

    I asked, and in almost a week I get one response saying it's fine if the classes make sense.

    With that in mind, I go for the leanest, most obvious progression *possible*, heading through Unarmed training into 'sword' training into the sublime way.

    I proceed to get -0.5 from most every judge for every class that doesn't have 3+ levels.

    I know now for next time, but it's hardly fair on new contestants that the criteria for judging are so heavily leaning towards one side of an oft-debated topic with no warning.
    Honestly, the criteria for judging change every round depending on the judges. Recently, yes, we've been a bit skewed against dips. I think that's because a lot of competitors have found that multiple dips are the "easy way" to snag things (feats, front-loaded abilities, etc). While Devlin's dips made total sense, I fear that he's an innocent victim of a system that has grown weary of Lion Spiritual Totem Barbarians, 1 level of Rogue with Craven, and other dips that are only done for power. I hope that you'll try competing again.
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  27. - Top - End - #207
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXII

    Oh, I fully intend to. I just find it intriguing that in a competition designed to maximise your use of the PrC, people care so much about using your chosen base class more, rather than getting those abilities that work best with the PrC from where they can.

    In my mind, a build that goes through even 5-10 other classes, grabbing abilities that are all in perfect synergy with the 10 levels of the PrC is the best way to make a character based about that PrC. If I want to do well in the competition, I'll have to change my approach, but hey.

  28. - Top - End - #208
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXII

    My take is that a 1 level dip is a half point hit, while a 2 level dip is a quarter point hit, and I rarely penalize for a Prestige class dip since there's effort involved to get into it. So the trick, if you're going to dip a class, is to get more out of it in Power and Use than you lose in another category. Everything is a tradeoff.
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  29. - Top - End - #209
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXII

    See, that's exactly what I don't understand. Why is a 'dip' an automatically bad thing.

    In my build, for instance, I could have gotten another 2-3 levels of swordsage and monk, had I forgone Warshaper.

    I didn't, simply because they don't synergise with dervish at all, and the entire challenge is to optimise a Dervish build. I made that decision *before* going warshaper.

    All the abilities you get from swordsage that synergise with Dervish are gained at L1. All the abilities you get from monk that synergise with dervish are gained by L2, unless you go *deep* into it and get the extra attack on flurry. Which is hardly worth that many levels.

    Why is using the parts of a class that match the secret ingredient 'inelegant'. If you're cooking, you don't use a large amount of everything. You use large amounts of the main ingredient/ingredients, and small amounts of other stuff, because too much other stuff would overpower the taste of the main ingredient. A small amount of salt or spice adds to the flavor of the dish. Using too much ruins it.

    By all means, penalise dips of over-dipped classes, such as lion-totem, rogue with craven, etc. But please, do so in Originality, not elegance. Penalise dipping classes which could have been taken further *and would have added to the build* by doing so, but I'd say that should be done in Use of SI. Grabbing precisely the abilities you need to showcase the secret ingredient is a *more* elegant way to build that character, not less.

  30. - Top - End - #210
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXII

    Quote Originally Posted by term1nally s1ck View Post
    Oh, I fully intend to. I just find it intriguing that in a competition designed to maximise your use of the PrC, people care so much about using your chosen base class more, rather than getting those abilities that work best with the PrC from where they can.

    In my mind, a build that goes through even 5-10 other classes, grabbing abilities that are all in perfect synergy with the 10 levels of the PrC is the best way to make a character based about that PrC. If I want to do well in the competition, I'll have to change my approach, but hey.
    Not necessarily. Normally, taking 10 different base classes would (as things are today) kill you in the Elegance department (there's definitely something to be said about getting all the right things in all the right places, there's also an undeniable beauty about a build that achieves a whole lot with just one class and PrC). However, if done correctly you'd make up for it in Power at least, if not UoSI and Originality.

    The problem I had with your build, as I can't speak for the others, is that you weren't all that impressive power-wise. I actually had a spreadsheet which mapped out the number of attacks, bonuses and damage of contestants and simulated damage outputs vs. various ACs (it's the Excel nerd in me). In the end, even with Dex and Int to damage, yours just wasn't all that impressive compared to some of the meatgrinders that had been entered in the competition. It's beautiful the way things mesh together - it just doesn't curbstomp the others.

    FYI, the dips only accouted for -0.5 in my score (actually, -0.25 and another -0.25 due to XP penalties which I find stupid but happen to be in the rules nonetheless). The rest was setting-specific material (-0.25), and lack of sources (-0.5). I usually started at 3 and added/removed as I saw fit, but just that once I started at 5 and took points off because I liked the whole thing so much. I do realize now that I didn't mention sources in my criteria and I acknowledge that mistake. I thought is was actually in the contest rules/guidelines, but it turns out I'm wrong on this so I'll add them in in the future.

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