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Thread: Pathfinder Tier System
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2011-07-13, 07:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pathfinder Tier System
Actually, I'd say the barbarian is still a tier 4; some of it's totem rage abilities are pretty good. And where do people get this idea that raging equals instant death? The SRD says the raging hit points are temporary, and thus lost first. So if you go unconscious it isn't like you immediately die.
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2011-07-13, 07:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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2011-07-13, 07:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pathfinder Tier System
You're generally going to have 13 int as a fighter, and if you're human, that's 4 - 5 skill ranks per level depending on what you choose to do with your favored class bonus. There are 33 total skills in Pathfinder. You can either have 15% of all skills maxed out per level, or spread them out. Given that you couldn't go cross class in 3.5 without blowing a feat or cutting your effective skill ranks in half, it's not terrible compared to what came before.
Rangers can do more things, yes. But notice how T3 is entirely composed of 2/3 casters. Their utility is going to trump a Ranger's utility every time**. I'd say the ranger is high T4, but he doesn't go above that until he starts sniffing 6th level spells or similar abilities.
Bards are farther from T2 than they were before. Diplomancy and mass suggestion with ridiculous perform-based DCs and various out of core uber-buffer tricks are gone, replaced by a class which is essentially a wizard/rogue in a can. Replacing overpowered tricks with a touch more versatility is fine by me, of course, but it doesn't make the class T2.
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2011-07-13, 07:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pathfinder Tier System
Originally Posted by The Giant
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2011-07-13, 07:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pathfinder Tier System
The increase to Constitution grants the barbarian 2 hit points per Hit Dice, but these disappear when the rage ends and are not lost first like temporary hit points.
Edit: Swordsage'dLast edited by IthroZada; 2011-07-13 at 07:59 PM.
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2011-07-13, 07:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pathfinder Tier System
Also; I consider all PF classes to be T3. Except Cavailer. And maybe a Monk.
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2011-07-13, 07:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pathfinder Tier System
Until a fighter can jump high enough to hit a flying caster by level 8 (I'm being generous here, I honestly think they should at level 5) get mettle, and get improved mettle or evasion, it's not tier 3.
Edit. Oh, so now all fighters have bonuses in at least four abilities?Last edited by Hiro Protagonest; 2011-07-13 at 08:02 PM.
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2011-07-13, 08:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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2011-07-13, 08:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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2011-07-13, 08:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pathfinder Tier System
Oh dammit. Apparently my book is a little out of date. Ah, well, that sucks.
Anyways. The beast totem line is good, since it gives you pounce. Come and Get Me seems like it could be useful, and there's one that gives you an extra attack as a swift action once a rage. There are some other good ones, but I'm not much of a barbarian aficionado, so doubtless others could give better advice.
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2011-07-13, 08:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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2011-07-13, 08:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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2011-07-13, 08:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pathfinder Tier System
And since you are using a bow, the majority of the feats you spent to improve your fighting ability with a sword are now wasted. The wizard has just nullified your greatest advantage with one spell, and now he casts wind wall to destroy your ability to fight even further. Congratulations, you have just been introduced to batman.
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2011-07-13, 08:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pathfinder Tier System
Hm, Beast Totem. Pounce at level 1 for 10 feet of movement is better than Pounce at level 10 for significant investment in rage powers you probably won't even fully utilize (weapon probably > claws), and you still have the whole instant death problem... but Pounce is Pounce. Low T4 it is.
Originally Posted by The Giant
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2011-07-13, 08:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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2011-07-13, 08:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pathfinder Tier System
A consumable item is not a class feature. Winged boots also don't count as a class feature.
Also, they can now get 13 feet high in the air. Remind me, how high can wizards get in the air while using Fly?
Good thing I also caught the ninjas, because bows aren't gonna do much to someone who can cast windwall, protection from arrows, etc.
Edit: more ninjas! How are you gonna wait it out when the wizard keeps throwing spells at you?Last edited by Hiro Protagonest; 2011-07-13 at 08:12 PM.
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2011-07-13, 08:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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2011-07-13, 08:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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2011-07-13, 08:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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2011-07-13, 08:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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2011-07-13, 08:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pathfinder Tier System
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2011-07-13, 08:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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2011-07-13, 08:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pathfinder Tier System
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2011-07-13, 08:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pathfinder Tier System
~ Thanks to Crimmy for Richardtar ~
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2011-07-13, 08:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pathfinder Tier System
Seriously you are making a case of a tactic where a 3.5 monk would be better. That is not a place you want to be.
Barbarians are still hosed if they are not getting full attacks with their primary weapon. That is too much of a weakness to exploit for tier 3. They are in tier 4 just like before.
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2011-07-13, 08:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pathfinder Tier System
I think this threads gotten a little off-topic. Here's another class that needs clarification! The Pathfinder paladin is a heck of a lot better than the 3.5 one, and along with it's combat ability and reduced MAD it has spells. So, does it count as a tier 3 now?
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2011-07-13, 08:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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2011-07-13, 08:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pathfinder Tier System
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2011-07-13, 08:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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2011-07-13, 08:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pathfinder Tier System