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    Orc in the Playground
     
    SlashRunner's Avatar

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    Default Rolling for stats

    Hello Playground!
    I have a dispute that I need to solve.
    For generating stats, I tend to use 4d6 drop lowest, with all the stats rerolled if they turn out really badly. I'm currently pushing to start using point buy, but that's besides the point.
    One of my players seems to think it's fair to repeatedly roll his stats until he gets the results he wants. He sees no problem with this.

    Is he right?

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Rolling for stats

    No, just no. It takes away the randomness if you can just keep rerolling. Theres a reason PH mentions WHEN you can reroll.

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    Default Re: Rolling for stats

    If parity between players in regards to stat generation is viewed as a desirable trait of the game, rolling and taking your rolls is probably the best method. If parity between players in regards to quality of statistics is viewed as a desirable trait of the game, point buy is probably the best method. If players having access to whatever set of traits they feel best fits their character is viewed as a desirable trait of the game, then either choosing statistics to fit or rolling until something comes up that is viewed as acceptable are good methods. In the event that all three of these are wanted, prioritize. In the event of the group as a whole preferring one, and a single player preferring another, there may be an issue, though this only applies if the players care about the methodology other players use to generate their stats in the event of the first case being prioritized, or the quality of their stats in the event of the second case being prioritized.

    The short version: That one player may be right, or may be wrong, depending on the general dynamic of the group, and what they want and view as important in character generation.
    Last edited by Knaight; 2011-07-13 at 05:29 PM.
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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Rolling for stats

    That depends on what the result he wants is.

    But if the rest of the group accepted their rolls, then the rolls he wants are almost certain t be higher than everyone else's, and he's wrong.

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    SlashRunner's Avatar

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    Default Re: Rolling for stats

    The problem is that after rolling for 20 minutes, his stats are now at something like 59 points whereas everyone else is at 32 or below.

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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Rolling for stats

    Tell him - NO.

    You roll once, and if they aren't terribad, you take them. The end.

    Even the rulebook says you can't reroll whenever you want. He has to deal. Smack the bad munchkin. >:/
    Past D&D Characters:
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    Orc in the Playground
     
    Engine's Avatar

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    Default Re: Rolling for stats

    Quote Originally Posted by SlashRunner View Post
    Hello Playground!
    I have a dispute that I need to solve.
    For generating stats, I tend to use 4d6 drop lowest, with all the stats rerolled if they turn out really badly. I'm currently pushing to start using point buy, but that's besides the point.
    One of my players seems to think it's fair to repeatedly roll his stats until he gets the results he wants. He sees no problem with this.

    Is he right?
    Nope. Let him roll the stats once or twice, nothing more. Everyone should have the same chances, so he.

    Forever in debt with smuchmuch for the cyberpunk avatar.

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    Default Re: Rolling for stats

    He has the burden of proof. If he wants to do something completely counter to the concept of rolling stats, he needs to justify why he can do it.
    Lord Raziere herd I like Blasphemy, so Urpriest Exalted as a Malefactor

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    SlashRunner's Avatar

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    Default Re: Rolling for stats

    By the way, I expect the player in question to comment on this thread within the next 5 minutes. I actually made this thread just to prove a point.

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    Default Re: Rolling for stats

    Quote Originally Posted by Bhaakon View Post
    That depends on what the result he wants is.
    That's obvious: he want's like all 18s. =)
    Rolling 6x4d6 drop lowest represents that we are not born the same. And we are born only once, so no rerolling for that particular taken character.
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    RangerGuy

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    Default Re: Rolling for stats

    Hi, I am the player Slashrunner is talking about. Our group is pretty laid back, with several of the party not fully understanding the rules. Although the stats I eventually rolled are very good,(17,17,17,15,15,12) I dont think the game will be effected at all, and personally think that as I put more time into my characters than anyone else in the group, It isn't unreasonable if my character has high stats. I dont min/max, I just do whatever feels cool, so the stats arent being used for any cheese.

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    Default Re: Rolling for stats

    Quote Originally Posted by excruciarch View Post
    That's obvious: he want's like all 18s. =)
    Rolling 6x4d6 drop lowest represents that we are not born the same. And we are born only once, so no rerolling for that particular taken character.
    If a character has some MAD (maybe from the class, maybe from the build) or the rolls are really terrible (like no stat above 13) I let the player reroll the stats if she wants: it's a game, not a simulation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scaliburn View Post
    Hi, I am the player Slashrunner is talking about. Our group is pretty laid back, with several of the party not fully understanding the rules. Although the stats I eventually rolled are very good,(17,17,17,15,15,12) I dont think the game will be effected at all, and personally think that as I put more time into my characters than anyone else in the group, It isn't unreasonable if my character has high stats. I dont min/max, I just do whatever feels cool, so the stats arent being used for any cheese.
    To me, it's unreasonable if you get them rerolling hundred times. To me, it's min\maxing. To me, the game will be affected a lot.
    Sorry, mate: you're not convincing, you could have a cool character with a standard 32 point buy or rolling your stats once or twice. And by the way it's not right for your fellow players.
    Last edited by Engine; 2011-07-13 at 05:51 PM.

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    Default Re: Rolling for stats

    Quote Originally Posted by Scaliburn View Post
    so the stats arent being used for any cheese.
    What are they being used for then? Oo
    Quote Originally Posted by Engine View Post
    If a character has some MAD (maybe from the class, maybe from the build) or the rolls are really terrible (like no stat above 13) I let the player reroll the stats if she wants: it's a game, not a simulation.
    That is understandable. But no rolling till tips of your fingers are bleeding which we are speaking of. =)
    Last edited by excruciarch; 2011-07-13 at 05:50 PM.
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    Default Re: Rolling for stats

    A way me and my group did was roll for stats (how depends on the campaign, such as 4d6 drop lowest and 1s) but do so 6 times and put each in a 6x6 table in the order you roll them. THus if you roll 18, 8, 12, 13, 17, and 4 would be in the first row, then you roll another row, till you have 6 rows. Then you can choose any combination of of stats that are in a line (vertical, horizontal, diagonal). We all do this and it gives us more variety and generally higher stats. But let me point this out again, "We all do this". If everybody in your group does what he does, and your ok with it, ok hes fine. But if no one else is, hes in the wrong.

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    Default Re: Rolling for stats

    Quote Originally Posted by excruciarch View Post
    What are they being used for then? Oo
    A Rogue 2/Ranger 4.

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    RangerGuy

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    Default Re: Rolling for stats

    Quote Originally Posted by Engine View Post
    If a character has some MAD (maybe from the class, maybe from the build) or the rolls are really terrible (like no stat above 13) I let the player reroll the stats if she wants: it's a game, not a simulation.
    My character is going to be moderately MAD. I am a multiclassed ranger/rogue, so...And don't tell me that the build is bad or anything, because I dont care.

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    Default Re: Rolling for stats

    Quote Originally Posted by Scaliburn View Post
    Hi, I am the player Slashrunner is talking about. Our group is pretty laid back, with several of the party not fully understanding the rules. Although the stats I eventually rolled are very good,(17,17,17,15,15,12) I dont think the game will be effected at all, and personally think that as I put more time into my characters than anyone else in the group, It isn't unreasonable if my character has high stats. I dont min/max, I just do whatever feels cool, so the stats arent being used for any cheese.
    Oh wow. I was going to scold the OP for exaggerating, but... that's literally equivalent to a 59 point buy. Note that standard point buy is 28; less than half of that.
    Last edited by HappyBlanket; 2011-07-13 at 06:03 PM.

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    Default Re: Rolling for stats

    Quote Originally Posted by SlashRunner View Post
    A Rogue 2/Ranger 4.
    Oh, then if that's ok by you he can have it his way.
    Last edited by excruciarch; 2011-07-13 at 05:56 PM.
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    Salanmander's Avatar

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    Default Re: Rolling for stats

    Quote Originally Posted by Scaliburn View Post
    Hi, I am the player Slashrunner is talking about. Our group is pretty laid back, with several of the party not fully understanding the rules. Although the stats I eventually rolled are very good,(17,17,17,15,15,12) I dont think the game will be effected at all, and personally think that as I put more time into my characters than anyone else in the group, It isn't unreasonable if my character has high stats. I dont min/max, I just do whatever feels cool, so the stats arent being used for any cheese.
    If you put more time into your character, then it will probably already be higher powered than the rest of the group (on average). I understand the desire to have high stats, but unless this is something your whole group can do, it's not okay, especially since your DM is not on board.

    You don't earn many re-rolls by investing in your character. You just earn investment in your character.

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    Default Re: Rolling for stats

    Quote Originally Posted by Scaliburn View Post
    My character is going to be moderately MAD. I am a multiclassed ranger/rogue, so...And don't tell me that the build is bad or anything, because I dont care.
    I would let you roll twice if your build has MAD, nothing more. I don't care if your build is optimized or not, that's your call: but your fellow players get one roll, why you should have more? Even if you put a lot of efforts in creating your character, it's no justification to pretend to roll so many times.
    Last edited by Engine; 2011-07-13 at 05:57 PM.

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    Default Re: Rolling for stats

    Go to point buy. Level this playing field pronto!
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    Default Re: Rolling for stats

    Quote Originally Posted by El Dorado View Post
    Go to point buy.
    Probably the best advice.

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    Default Re: Rolling for stats

    Quote Originally Posted by Engine View Post
    I would let you roll twice if your build has MAD, nothing more. I don't care if your build is optimized or not, that's your call: but your fellow players get one roll, why you should have more? Even if you put a lot of efforts in creating your character, it's no justification to pretend to roll so many times.
    Actually, there is one reason for him to roll instead of using point buy. Point buy gives a player control, but sacrifices the potential to have 18/18/18/18/18/18 at level 1. Rolling sacrifices control, but gives the potential to have those stats. By rolling multiples times and ignoring poor rolls, he gets the benefits of both and sacrifices nothing :)

    At least he's only partways a munchkin, with a build like that xD. Still, point buy is really what your group needs.
    Last edited by HappyBlanket; 2011-07-13 at 06:02 PM.

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    Default Re: Rolling for stats

    Quote Originally Posted by Scaliburn View Post
    Hi, I am the player Slashrunner is talking about. Our group is pretty laid back, with several of the party not fully understanding the rules. Although the stats I eventually rolled are very good,(17,17,17,15,15,12) I dont think the game will be effected at all, and personally think that as I put more time into my characters than anyone else in the group, It isn't unreasonable if my character has high stats. I dont min/max, I just do whatever feels cool, so the stats arent being used for any cheese.
    If you don't think the game is effected at all, then don't do it.

    Seriously, you're not allowed to do it (the rules only allow it if you have less than a total +1 stat mod or if nothing is higher than IIRC a 13) so you're just cheating and then claiming it doesn't matter because it won't effect the game. But obviously it does or you wouldn't do it.

    Really, you should just be playing point buy, because that works far better.

    JaronK

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    RangerGuy

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    Default Re: Rolling for stats

    Really, in our campaigns we need all the help we can get. We fought a lich at level 1 and an entire village full of elves and a treant at level 4. The boosted stats will have no change on our gameplay, and the other two players that we have dont care if my character is a little more powerful than them.

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    Default Re: Rolling for stats

    Quote Originally Posted by El Dorado View Post
    Go to point buy. Level this playing field pronto!
    Better solution is roll once and if you're all unhappy you can go point buy. Bickering players are pain in the arse, don't make exceptions or you gonna regret it. =)
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    Default Re: Rolling for stats

    Quote Originally Posted by Scaliburn View Post
    Really, in our campaigns we need all the help we can get. We fought a lich at level 1 and an entire village full of elves and a treant at level 4. The boosted stats will have no change on our gameplay, and the other two players that we have dont care if my character is a little more powerful than them.
    Before we continue: explain both of these stories?
    Why were you fighting a lich and a village? And why didn't you run?
    Last edited by HappyBlanket; 2011-07-13 at 06:04 PM.

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    Default Re: Rolling for stats

    Quote Originally Posted by Scaliburn View Post
    We fought a lich at level 1
    A lich has an ECL of at least 12. How did that one go for you?
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    Default Re: Rolling for stats

    Quote Originally Posted by HappyBlanket View Post
    Before we continue: explain both of these stories?
    Why were you fighting a lich and a village? And why didn't you run?
    Ok, first of all, the Lich part was misleading. The Lich was when we had pretty much just started playing by real 3.5 rules and I had NO IDEA that the Lich template even existed. I just took a 3rd level Wizard, removed the Mindless descriptor, and slapped on the Skeleton template.

    The whole village thing is also misleading. The village itself was tiny, and mainly consisted of ~12-13 1st level warrior mooks. The party consisted of 2 4th level characters and about 6-7 1st level warriors.

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    Default Re: Rolling for stats

    Quote Originally Posted by Scaliburn View Post
    Really, in our campaigns we need all the help we can get. We fought a lich at level 1 and an entire village full of elves and a treant at level 4. The boosted stats will have no change on our gameplay, and the other two players that we have dont care if my character is a little more powerful than them.
    Do you think it would be reasonable for you to play a drow with no LA? Have one or two levels more than the rest of the party? Have a bonus 20,000 gold of wealth? If yes, then we have fundamental disagreements about playstyle. That doesn't really matter, but you seem to also have disagreements with your DM. Sit down with your gaming group and talk about your assumptions, motivations, and playstyles.

    If no, then how is rolling stats until you're happy any different?

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