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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

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    Quote Originally Posted by zagan View Post
    Yeah, I see what you mean but to me it feel like it come out of nowhere. In addition your obsidian gate already increase your reach so the most comonly (ab)used exotic weapon become even more powerful. Your choice.
    Exotic weapons always run that risk, but I like it better as an idea than just requiring a martial weapon. There are less "tricks" to get around it, even if it runs the risk of players going back to the Spiked Chain.

    Quote Originally Posted by zagan View Post
    I've seen you've post it, it seem fine and really time based so that help.
    I plan on throwing some more time-based spells up soon. Got to double-check my notes for the rest of them.



    Quote Originally Posted by zagan View Post
    A little, but fluff is mutable. You could say that you when teleporting you tarvel trhough time instead of the astral plane.
    I could throw some more fluff down for that. I do sort of hint at that with one of the special requirements.

    Quote Originally Posted by zagan View Post
    I think you should, perhaps reducing just a little the penalty to compensate ? A -6 is largely enough.
    I'm still debating about just how I want to do this. I've decided that the base penalty is -5, but allies get to reduce the penalty by 1/2 Temporal Warrior level while enemies would add that to base -5.


    Quote Originally Posted by zagan View Post
    I like the idea of will save.




    Quote Originally Posted by zagan View Post
    Now it's clearer, I doubt paradox from overusing spell slot will come often but it's nice that you add a sort of drawback.
    That was kind of my thought. You get to mess with the action economy, but if you aren't careful with it, it will cost you.


    Quote Originally Posted by zagan View Post
    It's much better now and I like the removed old age thing you add.

    It's fine as I said fluff is mutable.
    While I agree that fluff is mutable, I do very much enjoy making fluff for my PrCs.

    Quote Originally Posted by zagan View Post
    EDIT: I've got an idea that you could use, could be some sort of drawback or with a little creativity a could useful in itself.
    My idea is that X amoutn of time (10 minutes ?) after using temporal regeneration the temporal warrior disappear for the same number of round that he used the ability and he then reappear in the same position.
    What do you think ?
    Oh, I should add that to Temporal Regeneration! Thanks for that, zagan!


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    Quote Originally Posted by Wings of Peace View Post
    "See these cookies? Note how while good they taste sort of bland. Now try these, they're the same cookies but with chocolate chips added. Notice how with the second batch we expended slightly more ingredients but dramatically enhanced the flavor? That's metamagic."
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Seriously, can we kill this misconception now? A wizard is never late, nor is he early. He shops for precisely what he means to.

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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    So, I've given zagan a PEACH. Time to go through the rest of the group. This won't be comprehensive for all of the classes, as it's obvious that not all of them are finished.

    In order...

    Paladin of the Lost Hour: Name and stuffs look interesting, but this is a shell of a class, so there isn't really anything for me to PEACH yet.

    Timebreaker Savage
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGeckoKing View Post
    *fluff*
    Little light, but I do like the idea of "Punch things through time!"

    Entry requirements are easily met through seven levels of barbarian. The fact that you need Uncanny Dodge means you can't swap it out for some other PrC.

    HD, BAB, and saves look pretty much like a barbarian prestige class's bit. Good reflex is a bit odd, but not terribly so. Class skill list is fine, but only 2+ on skills per level are, well, disappointing, as base barbarian is 4+.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheGeckoKing View Post
    Unless otherwise stated, the Save DC's for a Timebreaker Savage's abilities are equal to 10 + Timebreaker Savage levels + Wis Mod.
    This is odd, as even though most barbarians won't have a high wisdom score or modifier, shenanigans could happen. It also has the nasty habit that, at 9th level your saves will be a pitiful DC 12+WIS mod. A better method would probably have the save DCs go to 10+half total HD+Wis modifier.

    You should probably have another class feature called "armored casting" that says that Timebreaker Savages may cast in up to medium armor (and shields) without fear of ASF. It's more in line with other casters, like the beguiler, warmage, and dread necromancer.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGeckoKing View Post
    Spellcasting: *snip*
    Spell list is really, really, light. You also have the table say "Spellcaster" while the class feature says "Spellcasting." Seeing "celerity" on the list is, well, troublesome, no matter how thematic. Having the casting be somewhat accelerated is nice, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGeckoKing View Post
    Lightning Fast Fury (Ex): *snip*
    Solid class feature, especially for barbarians without other, dex-boosting rage variants.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGeckoKing View Post
    Steal the Years (Su): *snip*
    You should mention whether or not you can kill someone with this ability. I'm assuming not, but it should be mentioned.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGeckoKing View Post
    Speedy Steps (Ex):
    Making this untyped is good, but it still feels "light."

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGeckoKing View Post
    Timecrush Rebuke (Su): At 5th level, the Timebreaker Savage can thrash anyone with lightning speed foolish enough to strike back at the barbarian. Whenever someone would make an AoO against the Timebreaker Savage, the Timebreaker Savage may make an opposed Reflex check with the attacker. If they succeed, the AoO fails and the Timebreaker Savage may make one AoO as an immediate action against the attacker.
    The wording could use some work. From what I'm getting out of this, i that whenever someone would make an attack of opportunity against the Timebreaker Savage, the would-be attacker makes a reflex save against the Savage, if the savage wins (use that instead of "they"), he may make an AoO against the first attacker as an immediate action. As is, it's confusing ad doesn't actually say that. You should also say what happens if the Timebreaker Savage fails.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGeckoKing View Post
    Step through Time (Ps): At 7th level, the Timebreaker Savage can slip into a pocket of safe time for a little while. The Timebreaker Savage can, 1/day as an immediate action, hop forward in time 3 rounds. In effect, the Timebreaker Savage seems to disappear in a shimmer of silver energy, then reappear after the duration of this ability expires. The subject reappears in exactly the same orientation and condition as before. From the Timebreaker Savage’s point of view, no time has passed at all.
    You may want to reference the Time Hop power. Also, I think the official abbreviation for "Psi-like Abilities" is "Psi," but I'm not certain.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGeckoKing View Post
    Lightning Speed (Su): At 9th level, the Timebreaker Savage becomes saturated with the flow of time's energies, and is faster for it. The Timebreaker Savage is continually under the effects of a Haste spell, with a caster level equal to the Timebreaker Savage's caster level.
    By 16th level, you should already have a semi-permanent haste effect, either through a weapon properties or something else. Just, well, underwhelming, especially considering that haste is one of your few (read, four) third level spells.

    Timebreaker Strike (Su): At 10th level, the Timebreaker Savage perfects their skill and channels it into one, soul-rending strike. Once per day as a standard action, the Timebreaker Savage may make a single melee attack. If it succeeds, then the target must make a Will Save or die instantly as their body is sent to a week in the future, leaving their shredded soul behind. The victim is treated as dying of old age because of the time energies involved and so requires a Wish or Miracle to come back. When this ability succeeds, initially there is no body left behind. One week later however, the victim's body reappears in the exact same spot where the victim died, in the same condition before it's death.[/quote]

    While thematic, the barbarian must first make an attack before having his enemy make a will save (Currently, DC 20+Wis modifier). It being only once per day and accessible at the earliest at 17th level, eh. Underwhelming.

    A few other things: late entry requirements are irksome, especially when this class feels underwhelming. The strongest class feature on the entire list is probably celerity. That's, well, not enticing. The lack of rage progression outside of getting an extra +2 to Dex while raging also hurts. Overall, it doesn't feel like it does much of anything often. This is partially due to all the class features being, well, on a per day usage-system and just how underwhelming they are.


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    Formatting on the entry requirements needs work, class features need to be, well, added. The lack of spellcasting advancement while requiring, at the lowest, a 5th level spell (thus 9th level) is bothersome. A full PEACH will be up once the class is finished.


    Stillsword and Watchmaker will probably get their own PEAChes in the next post.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Wings of Peace View Post
    "See these cookies? Note how while good they taste sort of bland. Now try these, they're the same cookies but with chocolate chips added. Notice how with the second batch we expended slightly more ingredients but dramatically enhanced the flavor? That's metamagic."
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Seriously, can we kill this misconception now? A wizard is never late, nor is he early. He shops for precisely what he means to.

  3. - Top - End - #303
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    I'm thinking about giving this a crack, but how strict is the theme? Does a class that has time and space powers fit?

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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Istari View Post
    I'm thinking about giving this a crack, but how strict is the theme? Does a class that has time and space powers fit?
    I would say yes, as long as the focus on those powers is pretty heavy. The focus on the time powers also shouldn't be metaphorical. Those problems also popped up with the last contest.
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Well I'll give it a shot, the time powers are definitely not metaphorical, I was just worried about the number of non-time abilities I was planning on having.

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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    I would say yes, as long as the focus on those powers is pretty heavy. The focus on the time powers also shouldn't be metaphorical. Those problems also popped up with the last contest.
    Which is actually the reason I'm not participating in this particular contest. The theme is a bit to strongly tied into expected mechanical implementation, and there actually isn't a lot that 3.5e can do with time manipulation that doesn't seem, to me (just to clarify...this is *purely* personal opinion, and shouldn't be taken as a criticism of the creativity and skill put into this contest), like a slipshod construction patched over a large hole in the system (i.e. time manipulation abilities never feel as such to me, and foresight and hindsight effects are mainly poor attempts to cover the fact that actual precognition is impossible in an RPG like D&D). I guess at the moment I just feel to limited by the theme, although I suppose that could change if I get a stellar idea somewhere down the line.
    Last edited by Djinn_in_Tonic; 2011-11-17 at 10:25 AM.

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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    ...darnit, Djinn, I was looking forward to competing with you again! Now I gotta twiddle my thumbs and hope ErrantX's personal life gets cleared up so I needn't take over and take you on again sooner rather than later!

    But yes, admittably, time is... hard to deal with mechanically in DnD. Speeding things up or slowing things down is almost all you can get to in meaningful combat, as stopping things entirely is usually (depending on execution) overpowered, making "save points" or travelling back in time is even moreso and most of the rest gets hard to cover right fluff-wise.

    I have to say I have found a slight way around it (not by myself though), so I will be using that for my PrC, but still.

    ...after typing all this I feel like asking if people would want a much easier theme for the next one and ended up thinking of the quote from the movie Puss In Boots "it ain't over easy" by Humpty Dumpty. This makes me think we should do an egg-based contest.
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    ...darnit, Djinn, I was looking forward to competing with you again! Now I gotta twiddle my thumbs and hope ErrantX's personal life gets cleared up so I needn't take over and take you on again sooner rather than later!
    Obviously I really have billions of ideas, but have retreated to my idea-cave to nurse my wounds until such time as I rise to overthrow you once more.

    To be less facetious, I just can't yet think of an interesting, non-NPC only (which hurt me a tiny bit in the last contest ) concept to use that I'd feel happy putting on my homebrew resume (so to speak). I could make a few very complex, high-level, good-DM-required-for-use classes that do really interesting things with time, but no one except possibly a few homebrewers would want to read the thing, and *none* of them would ever actually want to run something like that.

    Plus my last class was slightly criticized for being to long...and this sort of class would be much more complex.

    ...after typing all this I feel like asking if people would want a much easier theme for the next one and ended up thinking of the quote from the movie Puss In Boots "it ain't over easy" by Humpty Dumpty. This makes me think we should do an egg-based contest.
    Is it odd that I just had about four good ideas for an egg-based contest (in the space of about a minute), but I still don't have any for a time-based contest?
    Last edited by Djinn_in_Tonic; 2011-11-17 at 11:13 AM.

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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrice Dead Cat View Post

    Timebreaker Savage
    [spoiler]

    HD, BAB, and saves look pretty much like a barbarian prestige class's bit. Good reflex is a bit odd, but not terribly so. Class skill list is fine, but only 2+ on skills per level are, well, disappointing, as base barbarian is 4+.
    I could give it 4+, I guess.

    This is odd, as even though most barbarians won't have a high wisdom score or modifier, shenanigans could happen. It also has the nasty habit that, at 9th level your saves will be a pitiful DC 12+WIS mod. A better method would probably have the save DCs go to 10+half total HD+Wis modifier.
    I went through all the spells, and if i'm not mistaken they're all buff spells (i.e no real save needed), so the save DC is just their for completeness' sake.

    You should probably have another class feature called "armored casting" that says that Timebreaker Savages may cast in up to medium armor (and shields) without fear of ASF. It's more in line with other casters, like the beguiler, warmage, and dread necromancer.
    Will do.

    Spell list is really, really, light. You also have the table say "Spellcaster" while the class feature says "Spellcasting." Seeing "celerity" on the list is, well, troublesome, no matter how thematic. Having the casting be somewhat accelerated is nice, though.
    Honestly, I ran out of spells to put on it, so I just left it like that for now.

    You should mention whether or not you can kill someone with this ability. I'm assuming not, but it should be mentioned.
    Will mention.

    Making this untyped is good, but it still feels "light."
    Mmmmmmmm. I have something I can add.

    The wording could use some work. From what I'm getting out of this, i that whenever someone would make an attack of opportunity against the Timebreaker Savage, the would-be attacker makes a reflex save against the Savage, if the savage wins (use that instead of "they"), he may make an AoO against the first attacker as an immediate action. As is, it's confusing ad doesn't actually say that. You should also say what happens if the Timebreaker Savage fails.
    Yeah, the wording is a shambles. I'm going to try something completely different (but still AoO based).

    You may want to reference the Time Hop power. Also, I think the official abbreviation for "Psi-like Abilities" is "Psi," but I'm not certain.
    Gotcha.

    By 16th level, you should already have a semi-permanent haste effect, either through a weapon properties or something else. Just, well, underwhelming, especially considering that haste is one of your few (read, four) third level spells.
    I can fix that underwhelming feeling, methinks.

    While thematic, the barbarian must first make an attack before having his enemy make a will save (Currently, DC 20+Wis modifier). It being only once per day and accessible at the earliest at 17th level, eh. Underwhelming.
    I'm guessing I should cut out the will save and make it activate on a successful hit.

    A few other things: late entry requirements are irksome, especially when this class feels underwhelming. The strongest class feature on the entire list is probably celerity. That's, well, not enticing. The lack of rage progression outside of getting an extra +2 to Dex while raging also hurts. Overall, it doesn't feel like it does much of anything often. This is partially due to all the class features being, well, on a per day usage-system and just how underwhelming they are.
    • I could lower the entry, but probably only to 6th.
    • I FORGOT RAGE PROGRESSION MY GOD WHY AM I SO STUPID.
    • Might change all mention of x/day into x/encounter. That always makes things better.
    Last edited by TheGeckoKing; 2011-11-17 at 02:10 PM.
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  10. - Top - End - #310
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Finally made my first entry into any of such contests. Any comments will be much appreciated, especially on the entry requirements thing. I was thinking of making the class available at around level 10, but I'm not sure if I did it right, in terms of the BAB and skills.

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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    as stopping things entirely is usually (depending on execution) overpowered
    Heh heh heh :D

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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn_in_Tonic View Post
    Which is actually the reason I'm not participating in this particular contest. The theme is a bit to strongly tied into expected mechanical implementation, and there actually isn't a lot that 3.5e can do with time manipulation that doesn't seem, to me (just to clarify...this is *purely* personal opinion, and shouldn't be taken as a criticism of the creativity and skill put into this contest), like a slipshod construction patched over a large hole in the system (i.e. time manipulation abilities never feel as such to me, and foresight and hindsight effects are mainly poor attempts to cover the fact that actual precognition is impossible in an RPG like D&D). I guess at the moment I just feel to limited by the theme, although I suppose that could change if I get a stellar idea somewhere down the line.
    Well, if it doesn't exist in the system, make something new then? I believe in you Djinn, I know you'll come up with something for this contest.

    Heck, I'm honestly surprised no one has taken the easy road and tried to make a Time Lord/Doctor Who-inspired class. For those of you who have some classes posted already, looking good so far, I'm really excited to see what we end up with! And props to Morph Bark for helping me with this right now. Fingers crossed, but life may actually calm down for me soon and we can get back to your regularly scheduled contest.

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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by ErrantX View Post
    Well, if it doesn't exist in the system, make something new then? I believe in you Djinn, I know you'll come up with something for this contest.
    Yeah, I'm thinking about stuff to do. That said, a big problem is readability: while I could create a new system, I'm not sure people would be up for reading all of it for a contest. An independent creation, sure. But for a contest it may be a bit to much for people.

    But we'll see.

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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn_in_Tonic View Post
    Yeah, I'm thinking about stuff to do. That said, a big problem is readability: while I could create a new system, I'm not sure people would be up for reading all of it for a contest. An independent creation, sure. But for a contest it may be a bit to much for people.

    But we'll see.
    Guarantee people would be willing to read it. I would be among them.
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by TravelLog View Post
    Guarantee people would be willing to read it. I would be among them.
    +1

    stupid 10 character limit

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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Timebreaker Savage
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGeckoKing View Post
    I could give it 4+, I guess.
    Looks good.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGeckoKing View Post
    I went through all the spells, and if i'm not mistaken they're all buff spells (i.e no real save needed), so the save DC is just their for completeness' sake.
    Slow has a Will Save negates, and I think that is the only one that has a save. Part of the problem is that the Savage only gets 6 spells known per level (first level spells only) or four spells per known per spell level (2nd through 4th). Having some nice little buffs is nice, but even a core only assassin has a choice from at least 6th spells, probably more. Even if you only count how many they know, they tie at most levels with 4 vs 4.

    I realize that the casting isn't the main draw here, but I feel that the Assassin PrC is a fair comparison in that regard.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheGeckoKing View Post
    Honestly, I ran out of spells to put on it, so I just left it like that for now.
    Fair enough. It just feels very, very bare-bones right now. Worst case scenario, you either 'brew up some additional spells or throw non-"time" spells on the list. I mean, it is a barbarian PrC, so give them something bearded!



    Quote Originally Posted by TheGeckoKing View Post
    Will mention.
    Good to know you can't just time punch someone to death!


    Quote Originally Posted by TheGeckoKing View Post
    Mmmmmmmm. I have something I can add.
    Rage and charge everything from forever away. Not bad. Makes odd Spring Attack fighting kind of enticing. I like that.



    Quote Originally Posted by TheGeckoKing View Post
    Yeah, the wording is a shambles. I'm going to try something completely different (but still AoO based).
    Wording still needs work. You should mention if "double the number of AoOs" is the total number the barbarian has, double the number he may use in any given instance (such as attacking twice instead of just once if someone provokes an AoO), etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGeckoKing View Post
    I can fix that underwhelming feeling, methinks.
    Not bad. You should mention if the second additional attack stacks or not, as I know there is at least one rage-variant that already gives one bonus attack a la haste, but does not stack with it or similar abilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGeckoKing View Post
    • I could lower the entry, but probably only to 6th.
    • I FORGOT RAGE PROGRESSION MY GOD WHY AM I SO STUPID.
    • Might change all mention of x/day into x/encounter. That always makes things better.
    Rage progression looks nice. Making it only Barbarian 6 (with two feats you may or may not have taken already) is very straight forward.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Wings of Peace View Post
    "See these cookies? Note how while good they taste sort of bland. Now try these, they're the same cookies but with chocolate chips added. Notice how with the second batch we expended slightly more ingredients but dramatically enhanced the flavor? That's metamagic."
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Seriously, can we kill this misconception now? A wizard is never late, nor is he early. He shops for precisely what he means to.

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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by ErrantX View Post
    Heck, I'm honestly surprised no one has taken the easy road and tried to make a Time Lord/Doctor Who-inspired class.
    Don't think I didn't think about it!

    The problem is moreso that The Doctor is more of a time-travelling Factotum with a regeneration device rather than having actual time powers. One could integrate the powers of the TARDIS into the person themselves (or make it a specially crafted item only useable by them), but then you basically got a...

    ...

    ...idea.
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn_in_Tonic View Post
    Yeah, I'm thinking about stuff to do. That said, a big problem is readability: while I could create a new system, I'm not sure people would be up for reading all of it for a contest. An independent creation, sure. But for a contest it may be a bit to much for people.

    But we'll see.
    If you come up with an idea or three and wanna bounce em off someone, send me a PM or something. I love new systems. Just gotta keep em simple and clean. You can definitely do that.

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    ...

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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrice Dead Cat View Post
    Slow has a Will Save negates, and I think that is the only one that has a save. Part of the problem is that the Savage only gets 6 spells known per level (first level spells only) or four spells per known per spell level (2nd through 4th). Having some nice little buffs is nice, but even a core only assassin has a choice from at least 6th spells, probably more. Even if you only count how many they know, they tie at most levels with 4 vs 4.

    I realize that the casting isn't the main draw here, but I feel that the Assassin PrC is a fair comparison in that regard.

    Fair enough. It just feels very, very bare-bones right now. Worst case scenario, you either 'brew up some additional spells or throw non-"time" spells on the list. I mean, it is a barbarian PrC, so give them something bearded!
    I think I'll add more buff spells to the list then. Divine Power, Bear's Endurance, etc.

    Wording still needs work. You should mention if "double the number of AoOs" is the total number the barbarian has, double the number he may use in any given instance (such as attacking twice instead of just once if someone provokes an AoO), etc.
    Double in one instance. Will get to it.

    Not bad. You should mention if the second additional attack stacks or not, as I know there is at least one rage-variant that already gives one bonus attack a la haste, but does not stack with it or similar abilities.
    I'll explicitly say it stacks then.

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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Godamn it, writer's block-I got nearly nothing, not enough for even a draft...

    But some good entries so far...


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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Been a while since I entered a PRC contest!

    Here's the Hexer of Time. Comments are welcome!

    I'll also try to throw a few comments towards the other entries when I get a chance.
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Wow no posts in 6 days? I have a few ideas but the that sticks out is a blend of Elocator and Zerth Cenobite. Maybe a bit of Chronorebel for good measure, sans the "travel 500 years into the past and rewrite the campaign" powers.
    Time manipulation is hard to balance though. I'll have do a few PEACHs to make sure I know where you screwed up hehe.
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    ...Knowing that the deadline was extended ahead of time would have been nice to know. Now I might be able to make my PrC...
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by DMofDarkness View Post
    ...Knowing that the deadline was extended ahead of time would have been nice to know. Now I might be able to make my PrC...
    Oops my bad, I was bumping the contest and I caught the wrong date. I'll give it to the end of the week for extension as compensation.

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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    As of right now, Errant, which PrCs are elgible to procede to the voting stage?
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by ErrantX View Post
    Oops my bad, I was bumping the contest and I caught the wrong date. I'll give it to the end of the week for extension as compensation.

    -X
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    Good easy requirements with a solid fluff one there.
    Bad have a base attribute score is bad. Bad because depending on how some people will rule it, having you Constitution score ever going below 13 suddenly means your stuff never works again.

    It's one of those RAW debates, but it's there. Alternate plan: why not feat requirement? It's clunky, but just requiring the dreaded Endurance is fine, as it is more or less "Constitution 13+" without being entirely dead end.

    Odd to see new proficiencies gained, but whatever. Just sort of there

    Your wording on the save is non-intuitive and just all around clunky. It's 3.5, so that's a given, but the "+X" bit is just kind of a pain. Consider using size categories instead. They are clunky, but for most cases, they will work well, both from a crunch consistency and the possible on the fly "Well, how big is a walnut?" situations and possible adjudications with objects (if need be).

    Least: Love the idea of the bubble, but way, way way too easy to exploit via divide and conquer readied attacks and teamwork. Also, use squares. a 2 ft radius is roughly a 5 ft square cube, and sure as hell easier to deal with. Also, actually state what people can and can't do. Copy and paste via Time Stop, as I am want to do, it just makes formatting so much easier. What can and can't pop my time bubble?

    Lesser: Is not much growth, in honesty. Random hit points on a possibly every other round this encounter ability is bad. Just give it a random X amount. 4d6 would average to 14 HP. Round up to 15 and call it good. The one extra round is nice, but these are all small growths. Especially when, at max HP rolls, the shield gains 23 HP. Assuming standard object AC (read, 5+size modifier), it's a one hit and still popped either way.

    Regular: If you want to change the size of the square-age based of how smart someone is (or, really, any other stat), your best bet would be to instead to either use pseudo-size categories (INT X+ can use large sized cubes [10ft cubed], INT more+ huge [15ft cube], etc.) or just say use random squares. No reason why time bubbles should be a perfect sphere and all.

    As a side note on this, Greater, and Sublime, the difference in sizes by your spheres, going from a minimum of +1 INT up to Middle-aged human archmage +12 (barring other tricks and cheesier things possible, natch).

    {table=head]Ability "level" changes (5ft cubes)|Base size (5ft cubes)|INT size changes (in 5ft cubes)

    -
    |
    1
    |
    -

    Least->Lesser
    |
    1
    |
    -

    Lesser->Regular
    |
    1
    |
    20 INT for +1, max, 30 for +2

    Regular->Greater
    |
    ~1.5-2
    |
    20 INT for +2, max, 30 for +4

    Greater->Sublime
    |
    4
    |
    20 INT for +2, max, 30 for +4
    [/table]

    It takes me making that table to roughly approximate that. In the end, size categories are faster and easier, more so with figs or photocopies from the back of the PHB. It's also easier to grasp, as 2D thinking is generally easier than 3D thinking. Human "okay size," ogre more size, and huge and above just eat needless space.

    Permeability look interesting, the real meat of the class, I suppose. You need to state when and how and where I get counterfluxes. Looks like a lot of notes without much crunch. Nice, but not a finished class, sadly.

    Time Denial is nice for debuffs not working, but really rustles my jimmies on also hurting buff spells. Yeah, I know, thematic, but it just irks me.

    Stillstrider is a small teleport. I like it, even if I am all over Witch of Space this contest, too. Possibly because of it. Wording needs a bit of tweaking, possibly an example text sentence or so.

    Forcewrap is free magic voodoo. You should say what being a force weapon actually does: just copy and paste something from magic missile or some such, maybe a dash of brilliant energy weapon property for flavor. Describe what it does for both armor and weapons too. The differences matter.

    Flashstrike needs way more clarification text. As is, it is a standard action attack to deny dex. Not bad, but, eh. Removing crit is similarly "bah" in design goals. Not a fan of the penalties.

    I like the Ripple effect. Very good design. Maybe consider allowing Xty teammates be able to avoid the negatives, too? also, describe corner cases with weird magic and ranged attacks. If I'm in the voodoo bubble, but you aren't - or the reverse, what is happening?

    Suppress Reactiveness is too good. Free action (read, blow all uses in a day to kill all your magic gear) via a free, not-gonna-lose-to-Caster-level Dispel Magic? No, just way too much there. Yeah, I know there are a lot of swift action stuffs in the class. At least throw a "once per round" limit there.

    Delay Amputation is nice for bleeding effects, but kind of "bleh."

    Membrane Sharpness should probably use a better term other than "half" for the DR purchase. We all know of the mountain hammer lockpick? Why not just say "nope, no DR for you! (Hardness goes wit it)!"

    Still Mastery is poor design, as it allows Plot!Excuses to just stop your stuff for random reasons. Yeah, having a bigger and badder dude than you can work, but I dislike just automatic abilities where you entire shtick within arbitrary area just doesn't work now, cuz I say so.

    Overall, I like the possibilities of stillspace, but find them lacking as it stands. Good, interesting design is hard, formatting more so.


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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt. Cookie View Post
    As of right now, Errant, which PrCs are elgible to procede to the voting stage?
    Skimming them, these:

    Timebreaker Savage
    Watchmaker
    Procrastinator
    Weaver of the Threads That Bind
    Hexer of Time


    The rest all have either incomplete class abilities or lack some part of the fluff sections.

    I have to say there are some entries that could do with some changing of how they are posted, particularly colour-wise, too much bolding or the class abilities being arranged oddly.
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    I've got all that I wanted to do with my PrC done.

    Now back to PEACHes.


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    Easy requirements, lots of skill points, but I think the skills themselves a little light. HD, BAB, and saves all look in order, except for the weird double will save thing you have going on there - looks like a BAB/table goof, but this is my first look at it, so we'll see.

    Weapon proficiencies on a PrC are weird, but not negative. Just sort of "there."

    Check the time is vague, but, well "time," does that. I like the idea of it.

    I like the idea of "Know Thy Future." I just hate "per day" abilities. That said, the fear effect lasts forever. I like that, especially on a nonmagical character. I also like it, as it makes it look less like an overt attack, what with the +4 to Diplomacy. Maybe consider also giving the bonus to bluff? You may also want to add a line in there about it being a "non-hostile" maneuver or some such. Just a thought.

    Reform Time is cute, but I want some more listed anomalies and maybe some "what causes them?" Type stuff. All in all, this feels a lot like a pure-fluff ability, but, well, still, I like it.

    Minor note on Watchmaker's Vigour: you missed the apostrophe. Otherwise, a solid ability. Part of me also wants it to give back dexterity, too. I see that Watchmaker's fighting style recoups some of the strength lose, which is good. Side-note: I for one am really displeased with the "growing" penalties for aging in DND, but that's just me.

    On the Fighting style, you should probably say what they are as. Gut reaction is as a club.

    Ashes to ashes and dust to dust should probably list the bonuses it gives. Even if it is as small as just +2 to a skill, a la a circumstance bonus. An actual mechanical effect should probably be listed.

    Intricate handiwork does what I want. Useful. It feels "late," level wise, but it is something to look very forward to. Kind of just hard to place, is all. Amusing this is more or less a caster-less bard entry, this is at 7-8th level, and that's pretty good. Assuming a less-than-good will save class... ouch.

    Know the Time is nice. Again, "time anomaly" needs more examples. It's hard to think about, though, other than just strange "bump in the night" type "wrongness," so I can't really say that I blame ya

    The Improved Fighting style should list if this +3 stacks or replaces the bonus over the base fighting style. Also, please list out as many things as possible. Key words to use "Paralyzed, unconscious, dazed, stunned, immobilized, shakened, panicked, frightened, exhausted, fatigued, frenzied." There may be more, but those all come to mine off the top of my head.

    Youthful Spirit is a nice ability, late, as most of it comes back via the fighting style, but nice. Not "YES PLEASE," as it does amount mostly to just Weapon Focus x3, but it fits as a class feature.

    Make Forever is nice. Type changes are always a "good" capstone.

    Imprisoned Mind needs say what beats it, be it a mere dispel magic or what have you.

    The Greater style references "TN Watchmaker's bonus," and I'm not seeing that. The AC bonus is nice: I like it.

    Overall, this class gives a bunch of small bonuses, which is nice. Two levels are there just giving you back stats. That fits, but is bland. For prestige classes, I despise per day abilities. It's largely just me, but it still bugs me. Taking it all in, I'd say Bard 4 is the intended entry: you ditch your casting because who has time for that and you just largely fix stuff. Even so, it still has the feeling of being there for NPCs, be they DM or otherwise. It fits that odd skill monkey niche, sort of like a rogue who says "forget sneak attack, I'm buying every poison known to man!" in so much as combat goes.

    Things to consider: ditch the mind-affecting tag on "know thy future," possibly as an upgrade, maybe also allow it to beat fear immune things? You mention "stunning" things after all the crunch. Having your abilities actually eventually do that is solid - either as an additional option for "know thy future" or as another ability with a different set of usages per day.


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    Seriously, can we kill this misconception now? A wizard is never late, nor is he early. He shops for precisely what he means to.

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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrice Dead Cat View Post
    Watchmaker
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    Easy requirements, lots of skill points, but I think the skills themselves a little light. HD, BAB, and saves all look in order, except for the weird double will save thing you have going on there - looks like a BAB/table goof, but this is my first look at it, so we'll see.
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    Just a goof. I was trying to fix Bab, not will.

    Weapon proficiencies on a PrC are weird, but not negative. Just sort of "there."
    The idea is that since they have been around a few times they really should be able to hold their own in a fight.

    Check the time is vague, but, well "time," does that. I like the idea of it.
    Thank you.

    I like the idea of "Know Thy Future." I just hate "per day" abilities. That said, the fear effect lasts forever.
    Quote Originally Posted by me
    Otherwise they are shaken for (2D6 + Watchmaker's class levels)
    I like that, especially on a nonmagical character. I also like it, as it makes it look less like an overt attack, what with the +4 to Diplomacy. Maybe consider also giving the bonus to bluff?
    To be honest with you, in my mind diplomacy was the key skill for stopping people messing with time. Bluff doesn't seem to fit. I suppose I could add "Diplomacy or bluff, whichever is higher".

    You may also want to add a line in there about it being a "non-hostile" maneuver or some such. Just a thought.
    Alright, I'll do that.

    Reform Time is cute, but I want some more listed anomalies and maybe some "what causes them?" Type stuff. All in all, this feels a lot like a pure-fluff ability, but, well, still, I like it.
    Sure, if I get an hour spare later I will.

    Minor note on Watchmaker's Vigour: you missed the apostrophe.
    I'll get on that.

    Otherwise, a solid ability. Part of me also wants it to give back dexterity, too.
    Maybe I should have it give everything back and replace the other two with something more useful?

    I see that Watchmaker's fighting style recoups some of the strength lose, which is good. Side-note: I for one am really displeased with the "growing" penalties for aging in DND, but that's just me.
    Just seemed like a good idea, really.

    On the Fighting style, you should probably say what they are as. Gut reaction is as a club.
    Will do.

    Ashes to ashes and dust to dust should probably list the bonuses it gives. Even if it is as small as just +2 to a skill, a la a circumstance bonus. An actual mechanical effect should probably be listed.
    Sure. I'll do that in a short while.

    Intricate handiwork does what I want. Useful. It feels "late," level wise, but it is something to look very forward to. Kind of just hard to place, is all. Amusing this is more or less a caster-less bard entry, this is at 7-8th level, and that's pretty good. Assuming a less-than-good will save class... ouch.
    As I said before, this and youthful spirit are going to be compressed into Watchmaker's vigour.

    Know the Time is nice. Again, "time anomaly" needs more examples. It's hard to think about, though, other than just strange "bump in the night" type "wrongness," so I can't really say that I blame ya
    I'll think about it at college and see what I can come up with.

    The Improved Fighting style should list if this +3 stacks or replaces the bonus over the base fighting style.
    It does say it stacks.

    Also, please list out as many things as possible. Key words to use "Paralyzed, unconscious, dazed, stunned, immobilized, shakened, panicked, frightened, exhausted, fatigued, frenzied." There may be more, but those all come to mine off the top of my head.
    Alright. Will do.

    Also, shaken, not shakened.

    Youthful Spirit is a nice ability, late, as most of it comes back via the fighting style, but nice. Not "YES PLEASE," as it does amount mostly to just Weapon Focus x3, but it fits as a class feature.
    Getting compressed.

    Make Forever is nice. Type changes are always a "good" capstone.
    Just felt that it fit.

    Imprisoned Mind needs say what beats it, be it a mere dispel magic or what have you.
    I'll state that only a wish or miracle can restore someone in this way.

    The Greater style references "TN Watchmaker's bonus," and I'm not seeing that. The AC bonus is nice: I like it.
    It's stated just after the *.

    Overall, this class gives a bunch of small bonuses, which is nice. Two levels are there just giving you back stats. That fits, but is bland. For prestige classes, I despise per day abilities. It's largely just me, but it still bugs me. Taking it all in, I'd say Bard 4 is the intended entry: you ditch your casting because who has time for that and you just largely fix stuff. Even so, it still has the feeling of being there for NPCs, be they DM or otherwise. It fits that odd skill monkey niche, sort of like a rogue who says "forget sneak attack, I'm buying every poison known to man!" in so much as combat goes.
    This was really intended as a general PrC, to allow older characters to continue in the fray. Other abilities will be added to replace IH and YS.

    Things to consider: ditch the mind-affecting tag on "know thy future," possibly as an upgrade,
    I don't know, I mean, if you didn't have a mind, then you wouldn't know what you are doing.

    maybe also allow it to beat fear immune things?
    That's a good idea, actually.

    You mention "stunning" things after all the crunch. Having your abilities actually eventually do that is solid - either as an additional option for "know thy future" or as another ability with a different set of usages per day.
    Yeah, that works as part of know thy future, you end up being stuck there as you see the doomed reality that is to come.
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    It's one of those RAW debates, but it's there. Alternate plan: why not feat requirement? It's clunky, but just requiring the dreaded Endurance is fine, as it is more or less "Constitution 13+" without being entirely dead end.
    I believe that absolutely no PrC is worth wasting a feat. You do get only 7 after all. I'll probably just remove that and pump up the BaB.

    Odd to see new proficiencies gained, but whatever. Just sort of there
    Fits the flavor, and more than that. A Stillsword most likely didn't advance primarily in a full BaB class, or if he did, he lost a lot of skill points because the requirements are rather cross-class. So it's a nice bump to give him martial proficiencies for the effort.

    Your wording on the save is non-intuitive and just all around clunky. It's 3.5, so that's a given, but the "+X" bit is just kind of a pain. Consider using size categories instead. They are clunky, but for most cases, they will work well, both from a crunch consistency and the possible on the fly "Well, how big is a walnut?" situations and possible adjudications with objects (if need be).
    Actually, the system is pretty simple, though I admit I wrote it in a quite clunky fashion. It should be much clearer now.

    Least: Love the idea of the bubble, but way, way way too easy to exploit via divide and conquer readied attacks and teamwork. Also, use squares. a 2 ft radius is roughly a 5 ft square cube, and sure as hell easier to deal with. Also, actually state what people can and can't do. Copy and paste via Time Stop, as I am want to do, it just makes formatting so much easier. What can and can't pop my time bubble?
    Mkay, I'll take those one at a time.

    1. The POINT of this class is to be used in conjunction with readied attacks and teamwork strategies. It's supposed to work like that.
    2. Meh, maybe you are right. Squares are indeed easier to deal with (it will also make the class much stronger if you think about it). Except I'll use cubes, not squares.
    3. They can't do anything. Least is pretty explicit about that (and Time Stop doesn't work the same way as my ability).
    4. Anything that deals damage normally (i.e. to stuff like walls or wooden benches) damages the membrane the exact same way. Treat it like a real material.

    Lesser: Is not much growth, in honesty. Random hit points on a possibly every other round this encounter ability is bad. Just give it a random X amount. 4d6 would average to 14 HP. Round up to 15 and call it good. The one extra round is nice, but these are all small growths. Especially when, at max HP rolls, the shield gains 23 HP. Assuming standard object AC (read, 5+size modifier), it's a one hit and still popped either way.
    And that stops it from being abusable. An opponent loses a round anyway being stuck in the space, and ANOTHER one loses a round breaking it, if that is what he wants. Now, I will naturally increase the hp gain since when using cubes they can't increase every time, but using averages would just make the game too predictable for me. Personal choice.

    Regular: If you want to change the size of the square-age based of how smart someone is (or, really, any other stat), your best bet would be to instead to either use pseudo-size categories (INT X+ can use large sized cubes [10ft cubed], INT more+ huge [15ft cube], etc.) or just say use random squares. No reason why time bubbles should be a perfect sphere and all.

    It takes me making that table to roughly approximate that. In the end, size categories are faster and easier, more so with figs or photocopies from the back of the PHB. It's also easier to grasp, as 2D thinking is generally easier than 3D thinking. Human "okay size," ogre more size, and huge and above just eat needless space.
    Actually, since I am using cubes anyway, I can remove the reliance on int altogether.


    Permeability look interesting, the real meat of the class, I suppose. You need to state when and how and where I get counterfluxes. Looks like a lot of notes without much crunch. Nice, but not a finished class, sadly.
    It's finished. I don't see what you're not seeing . Missed the spoiler? Either way, yeah, forgot to explain the counterfluxes.

    Time Denial is nice for debuffs not working, but really rustles my jimmies on also hurting buff spells. Yeah, I know, thematic, but it just irks me.
    Not all classes are for everyone, and for this PrC in particular the fluff is pretty precise. If Stillswords could be hasted, then good clerics should be able to command undead. It's the same thing really.

    Stillstrider is a small teleport. I like it, even if I am all over Witch of Space this contest, too. Possibly because of it. Wording needs a bit of tweaking, possibly an example text sentence or so.
    Example added.

    Forcewrap is free magic voodoo. You should say what being a force weapon actually does: just copy and paste something from magic missile or some such, maybe a dash of brilliant energy weapon property for flavor. Describe what it does for both armor and weapons too. The differences matter.
    I said everything it does for armor. It prevents it from being sundered or destroyed in any other way. That is literally the only effect.

    Flashstrike needs way more clarification text. As is, it is a standard action attack to deny dex. Not bad, but, eh. Removing crit is similarly "bah" in design goals. Not a fan of the penalties.
    You can use it instead of normally attacking in melee, it basically is a normal at will melee attack (which means you can also replace Full Attack hits with Flashstrikes). And you are not forced to use it, so if you use a scythe and double your threat range with feats, you will obviously never Flashstrike. And denying dex is not that weak, considering most foes do NOT wear armor, and therefore make full use of their dex mod.

    I like the Ripple effect. Very good design. Maybe consider allowing Xty teammates be able to avoid the negatives, too? also, describe corner cases with weird magic and ranged attacks. If I'm in the voodoo bubble, but you aren't - or the reverse, what is happening?
    1. I fail to see how letting some teammates avoid the negatives fits the flavor of the ability at all.
    2. All targets within the ripple have concealment. This concealment is universal, they have it against everyone, not just those in the ripple. So yeah, if you're outside the Ripple zone and try to hit/shoot someone inside, you have to roll percentage dice to see if you hit. Also, targets within the Ripple can strike targets outside the Ripple normally (just as having Blur on you doesn't make you worse at attacking).
    3. I really don't know what magic you're talking about :)).

    Suppress Reactiveness is too good. Free action (read, blow all uses in a day to kill all your magic gear) via a free, not-gonna-lose-to-Caster-level Dispel Magic? No, just way too much there. Yeah, I know there are a lot of swift action stuffs in the class. At least throw a "once per round" limit there.
    Dispelling and making it inactive for 10 minutes are largely different notions (especially since it does. not. stack). But fine, once per round added.

    Delay Amputation is nice for bleeding effects, but kind of "bleh."
    Thematic. I like how pragmatic it is.

    Membrane Sharpness should probably use a better term other than "half" for the DR purchase. We all know of the mountain hammer lockpick? Why not just say "nope, no DR for you! (Hardness goes wit it)!"
    Good point.

    Still Mastery is poor design, as it allows Plot!Excuses to just stop your stuff for random reasons. Yeah, having a bigger and badder dude than you can work, but I dislike just automatic abilities where you entire shtick within arbitrary area just doesn't work now, cuz I say so.
    It makes perfect sense to me for a Stillsword master to be able to just negate everything lower Stillswords do with a mere thought, their abilities relying on will and all. Plus, at this point he's about level 18 or so minimum, and this is definitely not overpowered for that level.


    Thanks a lot for everything! Will PEACH yours when I have time.

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