GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

[MoleMage]

I haven't forgotten you Jeff. I'll have PEACH up sometime tomorrow hopefully.

[sirpercival]

I'm going to try and PEACH all of the entries, starting from the top.

For my own entry, I added a Puzzle Box as Treasure section; I'd love comments on that and on the clarity rewrite of the Puzzle Box rules.

DIMENSIONAL WEAPONEER

Here we go!

Spoiler

Show

Cool pic.

"Do not attempt to put a Portable Hole inside the Glove of Storing. If you do............. Stuff happens. Just like when you mix a bag of holding and a portable hole." Instructional booklet that comes with the Glove of Storing

Lol. By RAW it's only a Portable Hole + Bag of Holding that causes any interactions, but this is cute.

{Opening Text}

Awesome. I love the tone that this takes, reminds me a little bit of Repo Dog.

Dimensional Weaponeers usually come from fighters, warblades, and other martially inclined classes. Rarely, however, a spellcaster, such as a wizard, will enter, however it usually takes them longer to meet the requirements for the class.

Too many "howevers" and too many commas to read smoothly... :( Also, I thought the name was Wielder of the Dimensional Gallery, not Dimensional Weaponeer (I like the former better). If you want something shorter, just abbreviate to Wielder. EDIT: I see where the confusion was. Nevermind.

ENTRY REQUIREMENTS

Should specify 8 ranks for Tumble. "Special" entry could use some proofreading. Seems like Ranger, or full BAB with martial study (desert wind), are the only 6th-level entries here. Could do 8th-level with a 3/4 BAB class. By the way, what's with Quick Draw? Feat tax? You don't build on it at all, and using the Glove is already a free action.

Class Skills

Typo in Perform. Interesting mix of skills -- why Perform at all? I guess I need to read the class to get a sense of what it's like ;)

Game Rule Info

d8 hit die, 3/4 BAB, good Ref saves. Kind of like a less squishy rogue, maybe? No dead levels is good. 5/10 class feature progression means this isn't as difficult of a choice as some other PrCs, but it also means that this doesn't define a character concept as much as other PrCs might.

Weapon Proficiencies: Dimensional Weaponeers gain proficiency with all simple and martial weapons, and an exotic weapon of their choice.

That's kinda cool -- could help some gish builds with a dip, and the extra exotic weapon prof is fun.

And now we get to the meat!

Dimensional Gallery(Su): At level 1, a Dimensional Weaponeer becomes bonded with a Glove of Storing, and learns how to unlock it's true power. As long as they possess any Glove of Storing, they may store a number of weapons equal to 2 + their class levels.

Only weapons? What if they want to store other stuff, and/or are already doing so?

Dimensional Enhancement(Su): Because of the number of weapons a Dimensional Weaponeer usually carries, they have found a way to keep their weapons enhanced. At level 1, all weapons they draw from their Dimensional Galley gain a +1 enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls for the remainder of the encounter. This enhancement bonus disappears 1 round after the weapon leaves the Dimensional Weaponeer's hands. This bonus also increases by +1 every odd level.

Hmm... not as interesting. Though not terrible. What about instead that they can apply the enchantments of a weapon that they have inside to other weapons they produce? That way they pay for 1 weapon (and don't break WBL), but aren't limited by having to maintain 92854 magical weapons.

Custom Weapons: The weapons used by a Dimensional Weaponeer are truly unique. At level 1, whenever a Dimensional Weaponeer draws a weapon from their Dimensional Galley, they gain one of the abilities below. At levels 4, 7, and 10, they may chose an additional ability from the list below. All special abilities last for the remainder of the encounter, and disappear 1 round after leaving your hands, provided you don't pick it up again within that time frame. Unless stated otherwise, an ability can only be chosen once.

Oh, I see... interesting. How does this and the above ability interact with weapons that are already magical? Also, the wording is unclear. Do you learn individual abilities that you can apply to any weapon, or do you have access to all the abilities, and you can apply multiple abilities to a given weapon when you produce it?

Note: Wands and Special Abilities Wands may be used with the special abilities below, however, the spell contained in the wand must deal damage, and either have a range of touch or ranged touch, or create a weapon that can use the special abilities below. All other wands cannot benefit from the abilities below.

Well now... this is the coolest thing yet! This may be the best use of this class -- a wandificer could enter at level 8 with good feat choices, and probably clean up. Rather than talking about "range of touch or ranged touch", I might say "require an attack roll".

-Thown: The weapon gains the Throwing and Returning qualities.

How does throwing a wand work?

-Mystic Ammo: This weapon automatically generates ammo when being fired. Weapons that needed to be reloaded do not have to be reloaded.

Does this let a wand fire without spending charges? What if you use feats and things that cost more than one charge?

-Bleeding Attack: This effect only works for piercing and slashing weapons. A foe hit with an attack from this weapon bleeds from their wound, suffering an additional amount of damage equal to your base weapon damage plus your class levels one round after being hit by an attack. A foe may only suffer this damage once per round.

What about a wand with a spell that does piercing or slashing damage? Does the damage of the spell count as the base damage of the weapon?

-Enormous Strength: These weapons seem to be heaver at their tips. These weapons deal 2x your strength modifier damage for weapons wielded in one hand, and 2.5 times your strength modifier damage for weapons wielded in both hands.

How does it affect wands?

-Forced Shot: Ranged weapons with this ability are easier to wield for those with strength, and use your Strength modifier instead of your Dexterity modifier for attack rolls.

Does this apply to a wand with a ranged attack roll?

-Burst: Weapons with this ability are temporarily supercharged with power. On the round that a weapon with this ability is drawn from the Dimensional Gallery, it deals an additional number of d6's worth of damage equal to 1 plus 1/2 of your class levels. However, weapons with this ability disappear as quickly as they come, and are returned to your Dimensional Gallery at the end of your turn. Furthermore, they can not be drawn for the remainder of the encounter.

What's the damage type?

-Weapon Growth: Weapons with this special ability appear larger than usual. A weapon with this ability is treated as being one size category larger for the purposes of damage only. This may be chosen multiple times, to a maximum of Colossal size.

How does this affect wands?

-Sharpened: This ability can only affect piercing and slashing weapons. Weapons with this ability have their critical threat range increased by 2. This stacks with other abilities that increase critical threat ranges, however, this ability is only applied after all other abilities are applied.

Does this affect spells from wands? Should be "piercing or slashing weapons" so it isn't restricted to weapons which deal both types of damage.

-Heavy: This ability only affects bludgeoning weapons.Weapons with this ability have their critical threat range increased by 2. This stacks with other abilities that increase critical threat ranges, however, this ability is only applied after all other abilities are applied.

Does this affect spells from wands?

-Shockwave: This ability only affects melee weapons. Weapons with this ability are infused with arcane energies, releasing shockwaves with every swing. Treat the weapon as having +5ft reach, on your turn only. The reach increases by 5ft for every three class levels you possess.

How does this affect wands?

-Line Shot: This ability only affects ranged weapons. Weapons with this ability extend 10ft past your target, hitting any foe behind your target. You the same attack roll and damage rolls you used against the original target, although no precision damage can be applied to the roll.

"You use the same attack roll". Precision damage applies to the original attack, right?

-Burst Shot: This ability only affects ranged weapons.Weapons with this ability allow your weapons to cause small bursts when they hit. Instead of rolling an attack roll, target a 10ft burst area. All within the area take damage as if hit by your weapon, minus any precision damage you may of done. They are entitled to a reflex save for half, with a DC equal to 10 + your class levels + the ability modifier you would normally use for the attack roll with ranged weapons.

"may have done".

-Forcing Blows: Weapons with this ability have a great deal of force behind their attacks. All foes hit with attacks from this weapon must succeed on a Fortitude saving throw (DC = 10 + Class levels + Your Strength Modifier) or be pushed back 10ft. If this would cause a foe to hit a wall, they suffer an additional amount of damage equal to your Strength modifier.

Why not make it a straight-up bull rush effect?

-Shielding Weapons: Weapons with this ability are abnormally wide, allowing them to be used to defend their master. These weapons give their master a shield bonus equal to their enhancement bonus.

How does this affect wands?

-Supercharged: This ability only affects wands, as noted above. Wands with this ability only use a charge for every two spells cast from it. If a spell from a wand is used only once during the encounter, however, a charge is still used.

I feel like there's a better way to word this... using a supercharged wand costs half as many charges (minimum 1)?

Exotic Weaponry(Ex): Those who use the Dimensional Gallery learn to use many weapons. They may either become proficient with one exotic weapon of their choice, or gain the ability to take 10 on UMD checks with wands only.

This is in addition to the exotic weapon prof you granted at level 1? The take 10 on wand things is flat-out superior.

Advancement(Ex): Dimensional Weaponeers come from all different backgrounds, and don't forget their previous abilities. Chose one of the abilities below. Starting at level 2, and every even level thereafter, treat the level as a level of their previous class for advancing that feature. Exactly what is advanced is shown to the right of the table.

Is this in addition to the class feature advancement on the class table? If not (if this is just explaining it), then get rid of that column on the class table. Also, rather than having it advance at even levels, just say that you add half your levels in this class (rounded down) to your levels in the granting classes for these abilities. Much cleaner that way. I will say that I really appreciate the fact that you spelled out exactly how this works, since the Legacy Champion/Uncanny Trickster version is just ambiguous as hell. I love that you included spellshaping; how does this work for other homebrew classes/subsystems? DM's discretion?

Feat of Weapons(Ex): Dimensional Weaponeers have learned little tricks to making the most of their weapons. Whenever you draw a weapon from your dimensional gallery, choose one of the columns below. You benefit from the feats in that column as long as you wield that weapon. You do not need to meet a feat's prerequisites to gain it's benefits. The name of the column is what type of weapon it is normally used for, although it does not have to be used that with particular weapon(s). These feats do not count towards the prerequisites of other feats or classes. In addition, you can only benefit from one of these columns at a time, even if you have more than one weapon out. This ability improves at levels 6 and 9, giving you more feats to use with your weapons.

Spoiler

Show

{table=head]Level|Two weapons|Two-handed|Ranged|One-handed|Sword and Shield|Wands

3rd|Two-Weapon Fighting|Power Attack|Precise Shot|Spring Attack|Shield Specialization|Reckless Wand Wielder

6th|Improved Two-Weapon Fighting|Cleave|Rapid Shot|Bounding Assault|Improved Shield Bash|Wand Mastery

9th|Greater Two-Weapon Fighting|Greater Cleave|Manyshot|Rapid Blitz|Agile Shield Fighter|Double Wand Wielder
[/table]

The way this is worded is a little misleading. I would change "Feats" to singular in the base ability description to make it clear that you only start with one. The Power Attack chain is really much worse than the rest.

Teachings of the Weapons(Ex & Su): By this level, Dimensional Weaponeers have learned to use their Dimensional Gallery to great effectiveness. However, at level 5, they have learned to combine their previous abilities with their Dimensional Gallery, allowing them even more versatility! Chose one of the abilities below, as long as you previously possessed the class ability listed. An ability may be chosen, even if it was not the same ability chosen above to advance. However, once chosen, the choice cannot be changed.

I think you need to clean up this wording a bit, it's kind of confusing. Are there daily or per-encounter limits on this?

Soulbinding(Su): All weapons drawn from the Dimensional Gallery are empowered by the Void, giving them the Ghost Touch ability. Furthermore, as they draw a weapon from their Dimensional Galley, they may select one Vestige that they have not bound for the day.

Once they've selected it, what happens? Also, what does the Void have to do with pact magic?

Spellcasting(Su): I guess it's time for them caster folk to get some love. All weapons they draw benefit from the spell storing special ability. Furthermore, if they sacrifice a spell who's level is at least half (rounded up) of the spell they want to store in the weapon, they can do so as part of the same action of drawing the weapon from the glove! Pretty handy, or so I've been told! Might run outta spells though, I've seen it happen.

This is the first place where the flavor has crept into the ability descriptions. Also, a non-spellcaster should absolutely pick this one, spellstoring weapons are awesome.

Incarnium(Su): For those with the potential of Incarnium, they get a pretty good ability. Basically they can reshape any one of their soulmelds into a copy of their weapon when they draw it from the dimensional gallery! Now of course, they lose the benefits of that soulmeld. The copy weapon stays floating right besides you and attacks when you do, although it doesn't get any of the abilities the weapon it copied has, and it seems to only be able to attack once a round at most. But it does get the normal enhancement bonus, and can increase it by +1 for each essentia invested in it, even past the normal pre-epic limit of +5! Use you Charisma modifier for it's attack and damage rolls too.

Typo: "incarnum", only one i. So... this makes a Spiritual Weapon out of whatever you choose, in addition to your normal weapon? What kind of action to control the copy? This is also kind of confusing.

Mysteries(Su): 'Em sneaky casters. They get a really good trick with this. As they draw their weapon(s), they may sacrifice any mystery they know to gain a number of "shadow charges" equal to 1 + it's level. As a free action when they attack, they may sacrifice one of these charges to make the attack with their shadow only! The targets often so surprised, it's Flat-Footed! Furthermore, the attack deals an additional amount of damage equal to the mystery's level.

What does the shadow's attack actually do? Does it take the weapon out of their hand, or does it attack with a shadow copy? Does the copy work the same as the normal weapon?

Aura(Ex or Su): These guys are the leaders of the bunch. Any weapon they draw seems to radiate warmth and inspire their allies! All allies affected by one of their aura(s) gains one special ability of the weapon they are currently carrying. How's that for buffing you? Oh, and their aura gains a +1 bonus.

Does the ally gain the ability, or the ally's weapon? And, the bonus granted by the aura increases by +1. The aura itself is not an entity to which a bonus can be applied.

Bardic Music(Su): These fools seem to think it's ok to play music on the battlefield! It's simply not safe! So they figured out that whenever they start up that music of theirs, they can have their weapon (as long as it's from the dimensional gallery) sing it instead (or play it). Now unfortunately, a weapon can only carry it on for about 5 rounds you see, but it's still useful none the less.

Just give the weapon the Harmonizing ability for 5 rounds. Less explanation, because there's already something that does this.

Breath Attack(Su): Don't get close to these guys! Might burn yah. Anyway, these guys enjoy a special resonance with their weapon and their breath weapon. Whenever they make an attack with a weapon from their dimensional gallery, a small burst of energy is emitted from themselves! It's of the same type as their breath weapon, and deals 1 point of damage for every dice of damage their breath weapon does! Now of course it's small, only affecting all within 5ft of them, and don't forget some are especially good at evading, getting a Reflex save for half damage.

I think it's technically a breath "weapon". This is really, really minor damage. Make it a d4 and it might be worth taking. At the very least, get rid of the Ref save...

Truenaming(Su): Well aren't these guys here fancy? With their fancy words that cause neat effects! Well the weapons these guys possess seem to ring with power when he's speaking gibberish, adding to the effect. He gets a +2 bonus to all Truespeech skill checks. Furthermore, once every 5 rounds, he can say some more gibberish (the truename of their weapon) to increase it potency. It's next attack deals an additional amount of damage equal to the truespeach check.

What kind of action to do the damage increase?

Spellshaping(Su): These guys are pretty different. Seem to be like an arcane version of the martial disciplines, but anyways some of them learn about the dimensional gallery too. Those that do gain the ability to use the Spellshape Channeling class feature, as a Spellshape Champion. But furthermore, they can use the spellshape channel on every attack they make in one turn, rather than just one. They also don't face the usual restriction of only being able to use the spellshape channel with melee attacks, they can throw or shot things with it too! Furthermore, these spellshape channelings of theirs is far more potent than normal; they use the damage the spellshape attack would normally do or the weapons damage, whichever is higher. Regardless, they still benefit from the special abilities and enhancement bonuses normal weapons get, and they deal an additional one dice of damage to boot when they channel a spellshape attack!

What about a Spellshape Champion straight up? They don't get anything special from this?

Maneuvers(Ex): These guys here claim to be the masters of all different kinds of weapons! Bah! I'd like to see them take me on! Anyways, these guys have figured out how to use their abilities with any weapon, so any weapon drawn from their dimensional gallery is treated as if it was a discipline weapon for all of the schools they possess maneuvers in. Furthermore, the weapon gains the Martial Discipline special ability, of one school of their choosing. Finally, once per encounter, they get this ability to unleash an assault on their foes, and use 2 strike maneuvers as a full-round action. Each strike, however, must have an initiating time of a standard action or less. What'd you expect, to be able to initiate two super long strikes at the same time? Fool! You already got enough abilities, now get outta here!

What if it already has that ability?

Improved Unarmed Strike(Ex): Why are these guys here? Aren't you suppose to only attack with you fist, knee, and stuff like that? Anyways, these guys have figured out how to treat their weapons as if they were unarmed strikes, gaining all the benefits their unarmed strikes do. Yup, that includes the damage boost. Furthermore, those who have spent time in a monastery and learned to strike rapidly (Read: Flurry of Blows) can do so with any weapon drawn from their dimensional gallery. Oh, and their weapons gain the collision special property, as if they didn't do enough damage.

The feat?

Combat Style(Su): Now, here's a person I can understand! People who are trained in this are usually obsessed with one particular type of weapon, to the point where it's all they carry. For every two weapons they carry that is same as what they currently have, they get a +1 morale bonus to attack and damage rolls. Furthermore, if any of the weapons they possess has a special ability or unique ability (such as the ability to automatically generate ammo), you may grant it to the weapon you currently are wielding, as long as that weapon is currently in you dimensional gallery.

What order are these in? Maybe make them alphabetical? Also, this is really swingy. You could either get minimal benefit (if you're dual-wielding), or ridiculous benefit (if you're carrying 234958760 shurikens).

Rage(Ex): You ever met someone who got angry at the slightest thing, and started destroying stuff? Yeah, these guys are about ten times worse than that! The go around on the battlefield, swinging randomly! Anyways, they've found out how to make their weapon rage with them! Whenever they have their rage thing going on, they get an additional bonus to strength equal to 1/2 their class levels (minimum 1). But even moreso, they can end their rage early (as a free action) to empower their weapon! All attacks in the round in which you end your rage early deal an additional amount of damage equal to the number of rounds remaining plus their (with their previous rage bonuses) strength modifier. Of course their still fatigued afterwards.

Switching between You and They.

Favored Enemy(Su): The weapons these guys hold seems to sniff out all of their enemies! It's crazy I tell you. Their weapon gains blindsight in a 20ft radius center upon it, except they can only detect their master and any enemy who is a favored enemy, and can report what they find to it's master through telepathy. Furthermore, the weapon seems to thirst the blood of the enemies, and increases all bonuses against favored enemies by 1! For their enemies, there is no escape!

The whole "communicate through telepathy" thing is really wonky. Just grant the wielder blindsight which only detects Favored Enemies while they hold the weapon.

Bonus Feats(Ex): Remember that off the wall ability you learned, but could only use it with that one weapon! Well know you've learned to use it with all of your weapons! Any weapon specific feats you possess now apply to all of your weapons, as long as the weapon would be a viable target for the feat. For example, if you had weapon focus(longsword), it would now apply to all of your weapons! Also, being an expert at using all different weapons, you deal more damage with them. Add your class levels to all damage rolls with any weapon you wield as a competence bonus.

This is just not that interesting... poor fighters.

Sneak Attack (Sudden Strike)(Skirmish)(Ex): Now this here is for them sneak folk. Thanks to the powers of your dimensional gallery, your weapons now help guide you to the weak points of foes, especially those you couldn't find the weak point of! You can now sneak attack oozes, constructs, and undead, just like you could on any other folk! The guiding also helps you hit them, giving you a competence bonus to attack rolls equal to 1/2 of your class levels.

Pretty nice... gets around some of the defenses against sneak attack.

Turn Undead(Su): You seen those holy folk, wielding weapons for their gods? Well, this here is for them folk! They gain the benefits of that protection from evil spell while wielding a weapon from their dimensional gallery, except the deflection bonus becomes equal to 1/2 of their class levels or the normal bonus, whichever is better. Furthermore, their weapon benefits from the Holy and Holy Surge abilities, except the number of times per day is in between all of your weapons, and does not apply individually between each weapon.

Hm. This seems a little lackluster compared to some of the others...

Invocation(Su): These guy here with all that magic they have? Yeah, they've learned to use any invocation, or whatever they're called, as a free action whenever they make an attack with a weapon drawn from their Dimensional Gallery. However, it's straining on them (especially since these guys are normally frail), so they can only do it a number of times per day equal to their Charisma modifier or 1/2 of their class levels (rounded down), whichever is less. Furthermore, any foe they strike with the said weapon is weakened against their magics, and suffers a -2 to saves and -5 to SR (if they have any) to any invocations used against the foe stuck by the end of your next round.

So does EB count as an invocation for this? i.e., you could Hideous Blow your EB damage and do EB damage again as a free action? If so, yay for forcing multiple saves!

Animal Companion(Su): These guy's weapons almost always seem to have fur, scales, fangs, or something of the like! Whenever they strike a foe hit by their animal companion within one round, they deal an additional amount of damage equal to their class levels! Oh, and since their so good with working with each other, any aid another and flanking bonuses that they grant to each other (and only to each other) are increased by 1/2 of their class levels! How's that for teamwork? Oh, and those with the Wild Cohort feat qualify for this ability.

This is lackluster as well.

Arcane Channeling(Su): Hey wait, I thought these guys were already covered above? You know, with the spells? Oh. So they are different. Well, anyways, the weapons they pool out of their Dimensional Gallery tend to have a jewel to focus their arcane energies, and are usually much lighter than their normal counterparts. Thus, whenever they use their arcane channeling ability as a Standard action, they get an additional attack, and treat their attack as a full-round attack for abilities such as haste, speed, and any other ability that only activates with a full-round attack. Furthermore, any spell they channel through their weapon with their Arcane Channeling thingamabob is empowered, meaning that any dice cap on any spell channeled is increased by 1 per 2 class levels! These guys love their damage after all!

Wow, intense. Nice. :)

Hexblade Curse(Su): These guys give me the creeps! Anyways, their Curse(s) takes on new aspects with this ability! Any foe hit with an attack from a weapon drawn from their Dimensional Gallery suffers a -1/2 class levels (rounded down) to saving throws versus any of your abilities/spells! Furthermore, you add your Charisma modifier to damage rolls with your weapons against foes who are cursed! Oh, and there seems to be a lot of variations (read: Fixes and Retoolings) of these guys, so this feature also works with their variation of the curse.

I assume that's a penalty? That's pretty fun, especially in a Doomspeak/Hexblade debuff machine.

Ki Pool(Su): Buncha wierdos are what these guys are! They draw this weird energy from themselves, and use it in different ways! Anyways, these guys have learned to forcibly draw more of this energy from themselves, called KI, through their weapons. Once per encounter, as part of drawing their sword, they gain an additional amount of Ki equal to the enhancement bonus of the weapon! In addition, by expending a Ki point as they attack, all attacks they make for that round damage an additional opponent within 5ft of the original foe struck! They may be weird, but you can’t deny the usefulness of that!

Not just swords, right? But that's pretty cool for clustered enemies. What about Sudden Strike damage?

Limit Break(Su): And yet these guys are crazy. You see, these guys actually get stronger as they get hurt! Well anyways, they’ve trained to use their weapons with this fighting style, and can add one-fourth of the damage done with any weapon drawn from their Dimensional Gallery to their damage pool. It has to be an actually threat to work , with a Cr equal to your character level -3 at least! No carrying rabbits in a bag just so you can get points, you little cheat! Oh yeah, and for every 5 points in their pool, they gain a +1 morale bonus to attack and damage rolls with their weapons!

"an actual threat" I think you mean. I don't know how this works, so I can't comment.

Familiar(Su): So these guys train and train their familiar just to give it up! These guys lose their familiar, and in turn, their Dimensional Gallery becomes their familiar! It becomes an Intelligent Item, roll 3d6 for its intelligence, wisdom, and charisma scores. Furthermore, it gains blindsense 30ft, and otherwise acts as a normal familiar! But these guys get another added bonus! Since their Dimensional Gallery gains more magic that most, it infuses their weapons with some of that power. You get to choose an additional Custom Weapon ability whenever you draw a weapon! It only lasts half the time the rest do, however.

Wow, intense. What if you also make it an Item Familiar?

Rebuke Undead(Su): These guys have an unnatural connection with the undead. I wouldn’t go near them. But if it’s your thing, you get healed by one-fourth (rounded down) the damage deal with any weapon you draw! Additionally, these guys can spend a rebuke undead to empower their weapon with negative energy, dealing 1d6 negative energy damage per class level. Don’t get me wrong, they have strong powers, but I still wouldn’t be caught dead near them!

"rebuke undead attempt". Not overwhelming, compared to some of the other abilities, but not bad.

Psionics(Su): Now these guys have some cool abilities! For every 10 power points they currently possess, they gain a +1 deflection bonus to AC! Of course, there has to be some limit to it, and that would be that the bonus is capped to their class levels. But furthermore, whenever they attack, they may spend power points to empower their attacks! For every power point they spend as a free action, their attack gains a +2 bonus to damage rolls on one attack with a weapon from their Dimensional Gallery. Now, they can only spend an amount of points equal to their class levels, but whenever they use this ability, all damage done by the weapon is converted to force damage!

Meh. It's alright, but it penalizes PsyWars (who have so many fewer pps than psions), even though they are much more likely to want the class. Maybe instead an ability having to do with Psionic Focus?

No infusions?

Weapon Assault(Su): Well this is it. You’re the best of the best now, kid. At this level, you’ve learned a few tricks that put you ahead of the rest. First off, any ability based off your class levels is now based off either that or ½ of your character level, whichever is higher. Thus, you can continue your previous training, or move onto something even better, it’s all up to you.

This does absolutely nothing unless you're an epic character, since the former will always be 10 and the latter only approaches 10 at 20th level.

Furthermore, those at this level have learned one final trick. Once per day, they may call upon all of the weapons in their Dimensional Gallery for one final assault. Using this ability is a full-round action, and is treated as a full-attack for feats and other abilities. They may draw a number of weapons from their Dimensional Gallery equal to 1 + ½ of their class levels or their Charisma modifier, whichever is higher. They proceed to make an attack with each weapon; because of the speed at which they pull this off, they provoke no attacks of opportunity with this ability, even if they normally would do so (such as firing a bow while in melee). These attacks may be split up as you wish, however, due to the effort needed for this ability,M you become fatigued for the remainder of the encounter.

You have an extra M sitting there. Also, how does this interact with all the other abilities which trigger off of drawing weapons?

Can't critique the fluff, since you haven't done it

Nice job! I think my favorite thing is using wands, assuming you can use most of the custom item abilities on them.

[bindin garoth]

Sirpercival, unfortunately you caught me in the middle of re-writing the class. I haven't had much time to work on it due to preparing for my business trip and spending time with my wife, but I'll be working on it more tonight. This is from my phone, so I cannot do a full reply, but:

Spoiler

Show

Preform was put up by mistake. I'll be taking it down.

The feat really doesn't do much, so I'll be taking it down. I'll also give it full bab and a d10 hit dice.

I meant for this class to be a weapon collector of sorts, that's the only reason I didn't allow other items stored in it. I'll consider it to allow any item to be stored.

I like your idea for dimensional enhancement. I'll be changing it tonight.

I'll clear up the wording for custom weapon. It suppose to be that you have access to all of them, but can only apply so many to a weapon at a time. I'll also clarify the damage type done from certain abilities.

About wands: I'll go through the list and mark the ones that can be applied to wands, or if it works differently for them.

Mystic Ammo: No it does not. Will add note.

Bleeding Attack: Yes

Forced shot: Yes.

Burst: The same type as what the weapon normally does.

Line shot: Yes, precision damage does apply to the original attack.

Forcing Blows: No reason not to change it. I'll change it with the other changes.


Supercharge: I'll change it up a little. Maybe once every 1d4 rounds, you may use a spell from the wand without using a charge, although you still have to use charges to activate any feats associated with the wand? The way you worded it only makes it easier to apply metamagic and the like to it instead, I was thinking more along the lines of making the wand last longer.

Exotic Weaponry: It might be a little early to give proficiency to another exotic weapon, and the take 10 is superior.

About advancement: this was to explain the class advancement above and to limit it. I'll also add a clause for other systems, as well as for the teachings of the weapon class ability, if there isn't a system I haven covered.......... speaking of which, I didn't cover your ritual system. Will add tonight!

Maybe I'll give the power attach chain leap attack.

About the teachings of the weapon ability: all of your weapons benefit from it, just it must be chosen when you gain the feature and cannot be changed later, even if later you would qualify for a different ability. And thanks for going through each ability!

Soubinding: this will allow a binder to bind one vestige per encounter, but only gain one ability from it rather than all of its ability. And the bind would last for the encounter.

Spell casting: still need to possess some sort of spell casting feature to chose this ability.

Incarnum : I'll clear up the wording. Its suppose to be an extra attack once per round as a free action, as long as you have already attacked that round.

Mysteries : he attacks with the shadow copy only. I'm probably going to change this, just don't know what to.

Aura: all allies benefit from one ability your current weapon possesses, I'll clarify it. I'll also clarify that its the bonus that the aura grants is increased by 1.

Bardic music: I somehow forgot about that ability. I'll add it. I feel like I should add more.........

Breath weapon: will change title. I don't want to change the damage unless I make it a 1/round effect, which is being considered as we speak......

Truespeach: free action to increase damage, will clarify.

Spell shaping: they gain the ability to use the spell shape damage instead of weapons base damage as normal. Then again, they have the spellsoul weapon acf which does exactly this...... I'll think about replacing this. Edit: I'm currently thinking about putting in an exception for Spellshape Champions with the Spellsoul weapon ACF: All of their weapons count as a Spellsoul Weapon for their bonuses, and deal the base weapon damage in addition to the spellshape damage when channeling a spellshape through their attacks, and may now use their spellshape channel with ranged attacks.

Maneuvers: if they already have it, then they could do this more often. This can be strong, so I'm thinking about limiting to strikes of one level lower than the highest level maneuver that you may use.

Improved unarmed strike: will change to specify that it must be the damage increase monks get ( or the superior unarmed strike feat) on second thought, why not allow it to work with improved unarmed strike feat? Although it wouldn't do much for those with just the feat. Maybe I'll change it so that the weapon deals an additional amount of damage equal to the unarmed strike damage. Although unarmed strike damage is easy to increase.......

Combat style: you can only hold so many weapons in your dimensional gallery. But this is kinda plain, I'll hopefully thing of something else to replace this with.

Rage: will be changed. Also, might add something, right now it forces you to end your main way of fighting to get its bonus.

Favored enemy: will change.

Bonus feats: poor fighters indeed. I'll try and figure out how to make this better. Perhaps temporary feat, whose prerequisites can be met from the feat groups above, unlike normal, where those feats cannot be used to meet prerequisites?

Turn undead: I'll be buffing this ability.

Invocations: I'd allow EB to be used. Will add.

Animal companion: I agree. Maybe gain 1 Ex ability the companion has?

Arcane channeling: glad you like it! Figured it'd help make up for the fact they don't get the full round arcane channeling.

Hexblade curse: yup, its a penalty. Helps make the he blade curse still useful.

Ki pool: yes to both. Will clarify.

Limit break: basically it helps them use their abilities faster, as their abilities rely on having a pool that fills up as they take damage.

Familiar: Then you'd have a super familiar! But yes it can also be designated as an item familiar.

Rebuke Undead: Just like Turn Undead, it is a little weak. Will be changing.

Psionics: Good Idea about Psionic Focus. I'll probably have it grant a bonus while focused, and able to expend the focus for a burst effect.

Infusions: Knew I was forgetting something! I'll add this as soon as I think of something, probably a bonus for weapons that you craft yourself.

Weapon Assault:
Part 1: That's actually the point of the ability. For those that want to play epic, the abilities from this class continue to grow rather than stay static and slowly becoming weaker.

Part 2: Abilities that require a weapon drawn would only affect that individual weapon.

Will finish reply tonight! Finished!

[sirpercival]

Walkers of the Endless Way

Next!

Spoiler

Show

{Opening flavor stuff}

Very nice! I feel like if you managed to add in a little desperation, maybe a few Interesting Times, you'd have yourself a Rincewind.

Becoming a Walker of the Endless Way

Even more very nice flavor.

ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
Skills: Jump 9 ranks, Tumble 4 ranks
Feats: Dash and/or Travel Devotion
Special: Base Attack Bonus +5 and/or able to initiate third-level or higher martial maneuvers and/or access to the Travel domain
Special: Must own and wear a pair of boots of striding and springing.
Special: Must walk an Ended Way with an existing Walker while wearing boots of striding and springing.

Other possible feats: Run, Endurance (to walk for longer), Expeditious Dodge, Speed of Thought.

The Ended Way

This is pretty fun, and slightly hilarious. Question: How does silence effect the Way? Also, calling it an "Ended" way seems a little... weird. How about a "Bounded" way? Seems a little more natural. Ended makes me think it's already over, you know?

{Game rule info & table}

d8 hit die, 3/4 BAB, good fort & ref. Not too shabby. Like a rangercleric. No dead levels, of course. Only 7 levels, which is interesting (& prevents epic progression); 5/7 maneuvers or spellcasting is definitely noticeable, but not a dealbreaker in most builds. And 6/7 IL progression is my guess.

Weapon Proficiencies: Walkers of the Endless Way gain no new weapon or armor proficiencies. They are, however, considered proficient with any special attacks they gain from this class.

Can one be nonproficient with special attacks? I've never seen this implied anywhere...

Maneuvers or Divine Spells: At every level except first and seventh, the Walker of the Endless Way continues to advance either maneuvers learned and readied or divine spells as though she had also gained a level in a previous initiating or divine spellcasting class. She does not gain any of the other benefits of a level in that class (such as additional uses of turn undead, or additional stances known) except for an effective increase in initiating or spellcasting level. If the Walker of the Endless Way has more than one initiating or divine spellcasting class, she must choose which one to apply this benefit to; once chosen, her choice may not be changed, though the Walker is free to apply this benefit to a different class each time she gains it if she so wishes.

Why no stances?? Also, the whole "this cannot be changed" part is confusing/misleading. It sounds like you have to pick one class and stick with it, though I'm pretty sure that's not what you mean. Also, what if you can do both (like tacking this onto an RKV build)? Can you progress both?

Seven League Stride (Ex): A Walker of the Endless Way learns how to make the most out of slight edges, to ignore fatigue and want, and to high-tail it when things get too rough for her tastes. She increases any bonuses to her movement speeds (including examples such as the Dash feat, or an expeditious retreat spell, but not sources that grant entirely new forms of movement such as a fly spell) by 50% (rounded down, to a minimum additional bonus of five feet). Additionally, she is immune to exhaustion, though she may still become fatigued.

Nice exhaustion immunity. Does the bonus movement speed apply to the boots? If not, why not? If so, shouldn't they be an example? Lol. Also, do you get the benefit of this when you're not wearing the boots? I assume so.

Footwork (Ex): The Walkers of the Endless Way bond closely with the tool of their trade - the famous and much-loved boots of striding and springing. Through practice, advice and sometimes just twisting the magic of the boots around until it breaks to their will like a wild horse, they unlock new uses and techniques for their footwear. At second level and every two levels thereafter (fourth, sixth), the Walker may choose a Footwork ability, provided she meets its prerequisites (if any). Footwork abilities only function if the Walker is wearing a pair of boots of striding and springing, and do not function if the boots are rendered inoperable (but see the Extraordinary Footwear Footwork ability).

Cool! Yay for customizability. Can the same footwork be taken more than once to gain additional uses?

Springing Dodge (Ex): Once per encounter, as an immediate action, the Walker may make a Jump check (with all the normal benefits and pitfalls of making a Jump check). This movement provokes attacks of opportunity as normal; however, if the Walker uses Springing Dodge in response to an attack or spell and her Jump check takes her out of her attacker's reach or range, or out of the spell's range or area (as appropriate), she suffers no ill effects from the attack or spell whatsoever.

Abrupt jaunt, eat your heart out. Make sure you include text saying that you move the distance indicated, otherwise you're just rolling d20s (look at the Sudden Leap maneuver to see what I mean). Another source of Battle Jump multipouncing!

Spring Attack (Ex): The Walker of the Endless Way gains Spring Attack as a bonus feat, even if she doesn't meet the prerequisites.

Meh. OK.

Quick Step (Ex): Whenever the Walker of the Endless Way makes a five-foot step, she may choose to move up to ten feet (she can still only make one five-foot step per round, even if she only chooses to move five feet).

Interesting. Essentially Press The Advantage (White Raven 5). That's two Footworks which are similar to maneuvers... that's not a bad thing, I'm just saying.

Agile Charge (Ex): The Walker of the Endless Way may change direction freely while charging or running (this power does not alter any of the other benefits or limitations of charging and running).

So you still need LoS to charge someone? This won't let you charge around a corner...

Unimpeachable Stride (Ex): The Walker of the Endless Way may walk (or run) on liquids and solids that would not otherwise support her weight (such as water, or falling paper) at her normal land speed. As long as the Walker continues to move or stand on such a surface, she doesn't take damage or penalties from it (such as thick mud counting as difficult terrain, or damage from standing on a lake of acid), though she takes damage as normal if she chooses to swim within or immerse herself in a dangerous substance.

Awesome. Time to go film Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon!

Snap Kick (Ex): The Walker of the Endless Way gains Snap Kick as a bonus feat, even if she doesn't meet the prerequisites. Furthermore, she increases the damage dealt by her bonus attack from the Snap Kick feat by one die step.

Not sure why this fits, thematically... everything else seems very coherent.

Traveler's Freedom (Ex): The Walker of the Endless Way may activate a freedom of movement effect on herself as a swift action (that is, the effect is identical to a freedom of movement spell, except that it is an extraordinary ability that cannot be dispelled and is not subject to the effects of an antimagic field). This effect can last for a number of rounds per day equal to the Walker's class level, but she may choose to split it up into increments as small as one round if she so chooses.

The wording is a little awkward. Maybe "can spend a swift action to gain the benefit of FoM as an extraordinary ability" is a little cleaner?

Walker's Network (Su): The Walker of the Endless Way may communicate telepathically with any being wearing boots of striding and springing. This telepathic communication operates over any distance, even if the two beings are on separate planes of existence, but does have some limitations:

Lol, this is very flavorful and fun.

Walk It Off (Ex): Starting at third level, the Walker of the Endless Way no longer requires rest to recover hit points or heal ability damage (though the process does not take any less time; she simply no longer requires rest and relaxation to heal naturally). Additionally, she becomes immune to disease and environmental damage (including damage from severe weather, temperature extremes and planar traits, but not damage from area-of-effect spells or traps).

Spring Into Action (Ex): Leaping boldly into the fray is, of course, another use of the boots that the Walkers favor, and at fifth level she perfects the art; the Walker adds a +4 competence bonus to her Initiative modifier as long as she is wearing a pair of boots of striding and springing. Additionally, she may take an additional move action whenever she is acting during a surprise round.

Too much "additional"ness. Can you use this when you take a std action too? Or do you have to take a move action to get the extra one?

Eternal Traveler (Ex): A Walker of seventh level is transformed by the Endless Way she walks into a being with the potential to be as eternal as it is; she ceases aging entirely (gaining neither further benefits nor penalties) and will never die of old age. Furthermore, she bonds deeply with her boots of striding and springing; they cannot be removed or destroyed by any means unless she deliberately chooses allow this to occur (she cannot be compelled magically to do so, either, though mundane persuasion could theoretically work).

Damn... must make it hard to shower ;) Lol. This is okay, more of a fluff capstone than a mechanical one. I'd love something a little more substantial, especially since you've avoided an 8th level where another Footwork could be taken.

Playing a Walker of the Endless Way
Walkers of the Endless Way are hard to generalize about, because the only thing they truly all have in common is a love of travel. Why does your Walker travel? Are they running from something - a grifter or cheat on the run from some horrifying cosmic justice - or searching for something? Do they walk for the simple sake of walking? Do they want to see the multiverse, meet the gods, or find some long-lost lore? Once you decide what called your Walker to the Way, a lot of how they behave will settle out on its own.

I'm hazy about this -- most of what I've seen in this section is in an in-universe style rather than talking directly to the player (that's what X in the Game is for). Still it's not a big thing, just a stylistic preference.

Combat: Walkers tend to fight like initiators or clerics do - but with that in mind, their class features place an emphasis on mobility that can greatly alter your available tactics. The ability to attack from new angles or spring into advantageous positions makes melee especially attractive for Walkers, and most invest in it to some degree.

You know, I think maybe the best entry into this class is a Wardancer. That would be a very fun combo.

Advancement: Most Walkers of the Endless Way advance as initiators or clerics, though a small minority choose to advance as rogues or factotums instead.

Why not rangers?

Resources: Given how loosely connected this order is, the Walkers don't provide much in the way of monetary resources to their members. However, information flows through the Walker's Network on a near constant basis, riding on the winds of psychic gossip; the Walker's Network counts as a masterwork tool for any Knowledge checks a Walker of the Endless Way chooses to make. Additionally, the Endless Way enjoys a positive relationship with many nations and with organizations such as the League of Boot and Trail, and may be able to expect discounted services at those locations.

Gather Information, too, I would think?

Overall impressions: Very nice class, looks like it could be extremely fun. I'd love a few more options for entry than Dash or Travel Devotion, though...

[ErrantX]

Ten more days folks! Home stretch!

-X

[hierophant]

Well, I'm not quite finished yet, but I'm getting pretty damn close.
I've never smashed out as much as I just did in one sitting before, so any comments would be greatly appreciated. Mainly I would like to know that it makes sense to anyone else
Once I'm done I'll try to go over everyone else's work as well to provide feedback, but that'll probably be on the weekend.

[Lord_Gareth]

Other possible feats: Run, Endurance (to walk for longer), Expeditious Dodge, Speed of Thought.

First: Thank'ee for the PEACH! I do appreciate the friendly tone.

I chose the two feats I did in order both to winnow down the huge list I STARTED with and because they're universally applicable in any game. Speed of Thought, for example, is banned in any no-psionics game. Yeah, a lot of other feats might make sense, but that's true of a lot of PrCs.

This is pretty fun, and slightly hilarious. Question: How does silence effect the Way? Also, calling it an "Ended" way seems a little... weird. How about a "Bounded" way? Seems a little more natural. Ended makes me think it's already over, you know?

The name has been changed. As far as silence goes, I will say this - that's certainly one way to shut your mentor up, but you'd better have a way to cast it while still talking or you've stopped participating in the conversation and lose by default.

For that matter, it probably wouldn't do to get caught in the spell yourself.

d8 hit die, 3/4 BAB, good fort & ref. Not too shabby. Like a rangercleric. No dead levels, of course. Only 7 levels, which is interesting (& prevents epic progression); 5/7 maneuvers or spellcasting is definitely noticeable, but not a dealbreaker in most builds. And 6/7 IL progression is my guess.

No, it's 5/7 IL; they gain an IL every time they advance maneuvers.

Can one be nonproficient with special attacks? I've never seen this implied anywhere...

I'd rather make this explicit than cause the Monk problem (where you're not proficient with your own stuff).

Why no stances?? Also, the whole "this cannot be changed" part is confusing/misleading. It sounds like you have to pick one class and stick with it, though I'm pretty sure that's not what you mean. Also, what if you can do both (like tacking this onto an RKV build)? Can you progress both?

Wording clarified.

Nice exhaustion immunity. Does the bonus movement speed apply to the boots? If not, why not? If so, shouldn't they be an example? Lol. Also, do you get the benefit of this when you're not wearing the boots? I assume so.

Cool! Yay for customizability. Can the same footwork be taken more than once to gain additional uses?

Abrupt jaunt, eat your heart out. Make sure you include text saying that you move the distance indicated, otherwise you're just rolling d20s (look at the Sudden Leap maneuver to see what I mean). Another source of Battle Jump multipouncing!

Wording clarified, thank'ee for catching these.

So you still need LoS to charge someone? This won't let you charge around a corner...

That's fine. It will let you charge while avoiding enemy threatened areas, dodge around difficult terrain and, more importantly, let you take the Run action around corners.

Not sure why this fits, thematically... everything else seems very coherent.

I couldn't NOT do a super-kick ability, essentially.

The wording is a little awkward. Maybe "can spend a swift action to gain the benefit of FoM as an extraordinary ability" is a little cleaner?

Wording clarified.

Too much "additional"ness. Can you use this when you take a std action too? Or do you have to take a move action to get the extra one?

"Move" is actually a classification of action; any given character gets one Swift/Immediate action, one Move action, and one Standard action in a turn. A Move action can be used to move up to your speed, drink a potion, draw a weapon, or anything else labeled as a Move action. This ability gives them an extra one of those actions during a surprise round.

Damn... must make it hard to shower ;) Lol. This is okay, more of a fluff capstone than a mechanical one. I'd love something a little more substantial, especially since you've avoided an 8th level where another Footwork could be taken.

I think I have an idea.

Why not rangers?

Mostly because rangers suck, but also because rangers don't offer as much to them after they've sunk all those levels in; Rogue and Factotum offer abilities that take advantage of what they've built on in this class.

Gather Information, too, I would think?

\

Done and done.

[sirpercival]

First: Thank'ee for the PEACH! I do appreciate the friendly tone.

No problem. I'm working on my PEACHing skills... and I'm a friendly guy ;)

I chose the two feats I did in order both to winnow down the huge list I STARTED with and because they're universally applicable in any game. Speed of Thought, for example, is banned in any no-psionics game. Yeah, a lot of other feats might make sense, but that's true of a lot of PrCs.

Fair enough. Maybe a note that other feats could be allowed, and to discuss with your DM?

No, it's 5/7 IL; they gain an IL every time they advance maneuvers.

And the two non-progressing levels count for half, like normal for IL ;)

I'd rather make this explicit than cause the Monk problem (where you're not proficient with your own stuff).

Lol, yeah. OK, I see where that's coming from.

"Move" is actually a classification of action; any given character gets one Swift/Immediate action, one Move action, and one Standard action in a turn. A Move action can be used to move up to your speed, drink a potion, draw a weapon, or anything else labeled as a Move action. This ability gives them an extra one of those actions during a surprise round.

Oh I know, but when you say "an additional move action", that implies that you took a move action already in the surprise round, when you could have instead taken a standard action. I was wondering if the ability still triggered in the latter case. Assuming so, maybe change the wording to "an additional action, which must be a move action used to move" or something slightly less clunky?

I think I have an idea.

That's pretty cool! Though I wonder if you should make them keep the extra pair with them, to help with non-WBL-breakery. Does it have to be boots, or any shoe-like apparatus? What about a foot soulmeld? Just spitballing here ;)

[sirpercival]

The feat really doesn't do much, so I'll be taking it down. I'll also give it full bab and a d10 hit dice.

Cool beans.

I meant for this class to be a weapon collector of sorts, that's the only reason I didn't allow other items stored in it. I'll consider it to allow any item to be stored.

I just realized, you need to make some kind of change here, if nothing else than to let them store wands in it!

About wands: I'll go through the list and mark the ones that can be applied to wands, or if it works differently for them.

Probably a good idea.

Supercharge: I'll change it up a little. Maybe once every 1d4 rounds, you may use a spell from the wand without using a charge, although you still have to use charges to activate any feats associated with the wand? The way you worded it only makes it easier to apply metamagic and the like to it instead, I was thinking more along the lines of making the wand last longer.

How about "you can spend a half charge instead of a charge to use the wand (rounding up when you put the wand away), and can't add any effect which would increase the number of charges you'd spend"? Or something?

Exotic Weaponry: It might be a little early to give proficiency to another exotic weapon, and the take 10 is superior.

So are you going to remove the exotic weapon part? If this is supposed to be the proficiency you noted under Weapon Profs, take that part out. As is, you're giving two profs.

About advancement: this was to explain the class advancement above and to limit it. I'll also add a clause for other systems, as well as for the teachings of the weapon class ability, if there isn't a system I haven covered.......... speaking of which, I didn't cover your ritual system. Will add tonight!

Then I would take that part out of the table. You don't need it if you just say "half class level rounded down", and there's no confusion.

Maybe I'll give the power attach chain leap attack.

That would help, though only for people who put ranks in Jump. Lol.

About the teachings of the weapon ability: all of your weapons benefit from it, just it must be chosen when you gain the feature and cannot be changed later, even if later you would qualify for a different ability. And thanks for going through each ability!

No problem. I would try to clarify this.

Soubinding: this will allow a binder to bind one vestige per encounter, but only gain one ability from it rather than all of its ability. And the bind would last for the encounter.

Make sure you actually edit that into the class. Right now it says you select one, and doesn't say what to do or what you get once you select it.

Maneuvers: if they already have it, then they could do this more often. This can be strong, so I'm thinking about limiting to strikes of one level lower than the highest level maneuver that you may use.

I meant what if the weapon is already a discipline weapon for that discipline.

Combat style: you can only hold so many weapons in your dimensional gallery. But this is kinda plain, I'll hopefully thing of something else to replace this with.

Make sure you clarify that it only counts for weapons in the dimensional gallery, since right now you have it as any weapon you're carrying. You could dual-wield rabbits, stick a mated pair of rabbits, some goodberries, and a bottle of air in a bag of holding and soon be doing infinite damage. Also, the whole idea of this class is having a variety of weapons in the gallery... this is not synergistic with that at all. I'd definitely change it.

Rage: will be changed. Also, might add something, right now it forces you to end your main way of fighting to get its bonus.

Good point.

Bonus feats: poor fighters indeed. I'll try and figure out how to make this better. Perhaps temporary feat, whose prerequisites can be met from the feat groups above, unlike normal, where those feats cannot be used to meet prerequisites?

Meh. This is not a problem with your class, it's a problem with fighters. The only thing you can do with this is "balrgh more bonus feats". Maybe grant them a fighter ACF for free? Though that's problematic for an artificer or any other class which gets bonus feats...

Animal companion: I agree. Maybe gain 1 Ex ability the companion has?

A lot of them have no (Ex) abilities, or at least crappy ones. How about let the AC get the benefit of your custom weapon stuff with their natural attacks?

Weapon Assault:
Part 1: That's actually the point of the ability. For those that want to play epic, the abilities from this class continue to grow rather than stay static and slowly becoming weaker.

Fair enough.
[/Spoiler]

[sirpercival]

Spheroid Oddity

And another.

Spoiler

Show

{opening fluff}

Awesome, awesome pic. And great fluff.

ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
Skills: Knowledge (The Planes) 8 Ranks
Feats: Iron Will

Should actually have the Aberrant Sphere on here, shouldn't you? Rather than in the text above?

{game rule info}

Standard chassis (3/4 BAB, d6 hit die, good will saves). No dead levels, 8/10 spellcasting (though you don't need any spellcasting to enter). Solid. Also, the lost spellcasting levels are distributed well.

Favoured Sphere (Ex): At 1st level you get almost obsessively attached to your Aberrant Sphere. Like, super attached. When a Spheroid Oddity gains the 1st level of this class, they must designate one of their Aberrant Sphere(s) as their Favoured Sphere. Once they do this, the Favoured Sphere gains special qualities. The Spheroid Oddity gains the ability to call their designated Aberrant Sphere to their hand as a standard action, as if it were a weapon with the Called enhancement, they can use it in battle as a +X Light Mace, where X is half of their levels in this class. Lastly, the Favoured Sphere's caster level is equal to the Spheroid Oddity's Character Level.

OK, cool. I don't like the "+X" phrasing and try to avoid it myself; maybe a little cleaner to say "a light mace with an enhancement bonus equal to half your class level"? Also, you switched from third to first person. Not a big deal, but I noticed.

Extra Charge (Ex): Using eldritch powers of supreme arcane magic and thoroughly reading the instruction parchment that came in the box, the Spheroid Oddity can get more out of their most beloved toy. At 1st, 4th, 7th and 10th level, the Spheroid Oddity's Favoured Sphere gains a number of bonus charges indicated in the table (each increase supercedes the last).

And back to 3rd person. More daily uses for the sphere, cool. Just so you know, the way this is worded, it seems that at 1st level you get +1 and at 4th level you get an additional +3 (so +4 total), etc. Maybe say it gets an extra charge; the number of extra charges it gets increases at these levels as per the table? Does that distinction make sense?

Expanded List: The best part of being a Spheroid Oddity is the cool critters you can summon up. Starting at 2nd level, A Spheroid Oddity adds the following monsters to the list of creatures they can use their Favoured Sphere to summon. The Spheroid Oddity gains a Will Save Penalty equal to the charges spent on the summoning for as long as the summoned creature is summoned. Note that certain summons are inaccessible until certain levels.

Oh, nice. I like more options! Just a nitpick, calling those "levels" is a little confusing, maybe instead call them "tiers"? Or "grades"? Also, I do like the options, but maybe even more? This is the theme of the contest. You could have a big list and let them choose a few at the indicated levels, you could add more granularity, etc.

Aberrant Friend (Ex): At 2nd level, the Spheroid Oddity gains Wild Cohort as a bonus feat, only each Wild Cohort that the Spheroid Oddity summons has the Pseudonatural template and is thus sentient (it understands Common and whatever the Baator is spoken in the Far Realms), but is otherwise treated as a normal Wild Cohort.

Why make it a feat instead of just giving a pseudonatural Animal Companion-style class feature? This means that the char can't take Wild Cohort separately...

Sanity's Not For Me (Ex): Starting from 3rd level, the Spheroid Oddity resists the logical progression of reality's cause and effect for something distinctly more odd, gaining the ability to shrug off that which would kill it. The Spheroid Oddity gains Acid and Electricity Resistance equal to their class level. At 6th level, the Spheroid Oddity gains immunity to Fear and Confusion effects, and at 9th level gains immunity to all Mind-affecting Abilities.

The mental stuff makes more sense thematically than the resistances, at least as far as the ability name goes.

Fractured Sanity (Ex): At 5th level, the Speroid Oddity gains the Far-Realmsian ability to split things in half and yet get double what they had in the first place, but only if they add a dash of tortured sanity to the orb beforehand. When a Spheroid Oddity uses an Aberrant Sphere to summon a monster, by optionally taking 1 point of Wisdom Burn they can summon a bonus monster of the same type (and for the same amount of time) without spending charges or suffering a Will Save penalty.

"Far Realmsian" is an awesome term. I would say "spending more charges or suffering further Will save penalties" since they are doing both those things in the first place. Yay for aberrant malconvoker!

Elder Thing (Ex): At 10th level, The Spheroid Oddity has by now decided that it's best to walk like a cosmic horror, and talk like a cosmic horror too. A Spheroid Oddity of 10th level gains the Pseudonatural template, and the ability to obscure their (now) horrific form as a swift action, as per the Disguise Self spell, allowing them to avoid the wrath of those who oppose that which makes little sense.

Lol. You should define which pseudonatural (ELH or CArc), and maybe use Half-Farspawn instead? Also, please please define what happens with LA when you gain the template. Does their ECL jump?

Playing a Spheroid Oddity
The Spheroid Oddity should be played according to what class they belonged to, with the added bonus of having reliable backup if things go wrong, in the form of some Druid-infuriating congregation of tentacles and slime.
Combat: As you fought before, you fight now. Only with more tentacle.
Advancement: If it sounds like I'm repeating myself, it's because I am. Just do what you do best, and keep doing what you do best.
Resources: Other than the odd Alienist cult (which are not really reliable), you're on your own.

Lol. I wonder whether this class is best for spellcasters or non-spellcasters... My first impression was that you intended it for casters, but maybe (since there's nothing having to do with casting at all besides progression) you were just making it so a caster could take this without falling too far behind?

Most people are terrified of the Oddities in the common, "OH MY GOD GET THAT TENTACLED THING AW...." sense, but Druids are the ones who have a fit when they learn of a Spheroid Oddity, and that only means one thing - Bears.

This is just... weird. Lol. I thought it was only in Eberron that druids hate aberrations? And bears... haha.

Daily Life: To apply averages to madness is foolish, but most Spheroid Oddities tend to have daily practise drills with their summons and Aberrant Friend.

That doesn't make sense. Why would they waste charges on practice?

Notables: There are no notable Spheroid Oddities that dwell in comprehensible venues of mortal perception, as once the Oddity becomes of high enough level, they go all "gribbly" and are unwelcome in all but the Far Realms.
Organizations: There are no organizations that exist because mental instability plus a moody boss who makes too many demands always equals Father Llymic being awakened earlier than he should be and eating everyone.

NPC Reaction
As you've already guessed, just don't bother trying to be accepted. Hide your sphere, hide your friends, don't breath a word to anyone, and pray to the Elder Elemental Eye that the Druids don't get you.

I think you could have taken a more serious tone with this... but it's quite amusing!

Spheroid Oddities in The Game (Hah! You lost!)

Lol.

While based around being a Spellcaster PrC, the Spheroid Oddity can be a welcome addition to just about any character's build.
Adaptation: In Eberron, the madness comes from Xoriat, and in Faerun the madness could come from trying to comprehend Elminster's sheer Mary Sueness, or (more seriously) the conjuration of a mad god's dreams.
Encounters: Spheroid Oddities are normally just strange sages with a funky orb, so you'd find them in most often in secluded villages and locales, away from prying eyes.

Yeah, there's nothing in here that actually has anything to do with spellcasting other than the progression...

An enjoyable read!

[Lord_Gareth]

Oh I know, but when you say "an additional move action", that implies that you took a move action already in the surprise round, when you could have instead taken a standard action. I was wondering if the ability still triggered in the latter case. Assuming so, maybe change the wording to "an additional action, which must be a move action used to move" or something slightly less clunky?

There is no 'less clunky'. That's the precise wording used for every effect that grants this kind of thing - including the famed belt of battle. It isn't an additional action that must be used to move, it's an additional Move action - which means, for example, that they could use it to drink a potion, draw a weapon, move/tumble, or ANYTHING a Move action can be used for. The 'additional' is because in any given turn a combatant only gets one move action, so getting another one is an addition.

[sirpercival]

There is no 'less clunky'. That's the precise wording used for every effect that grants this kind of thing - including the famed belt of battle. It isn't an additional action that must be used to move, it's an additional Move action - which means, for example, that they could use it to drink a potion, draw a weapon, move/tumble, or ANYTHING a Move action can be used for. The 'additional' is because in any given turn a combatant only gets one move action, so getting another one is an addition.

Except that this ability gets it in the surprise round, so they get a move or a standard. So they might not have any move actions to make an "additional" one.

And I recognize that that's how it's stated in other sources... I just wish they had worded it differently there too :) But either way, that's just a stylistic preference, and freely ignored. No worries.

[Morph Bark]

And I recognize that that's how it's stated in other sources...

I was just thinking for a bit, and I think you've basically referred to nearly every official book with this.

[sirpercival]

So? Unclear wording with copy/paste is still unclear wording. They need to fix their whole "additional" thing, it's why people try to make use of Tashalatora with no monk levels, etc.

[Morph Bark]

I'm not judging, since it seems you thought so, I was stating an observation.

[sirpercival]

I'm not judging, since it seems you thought so, I was stating an observation.

Oh. My apologies...

And yes. They do have a tendency to reuse poor wording. Like how by RAW, prc levels don't give wizards new spells in their spellbooks.

[TheGeckoKing]

Thanks for the PEACH sirpercival! Answers in the spoiler.

Spoiler

Show

Should actually have the Aberrant Sphere on here, shouldn't you? Rather than in the text above?

Yeah, probably should.

Standard chassis (3/4 BAB, d6 hit die, good will saves). No dead levels, 8/10 spellcasting (though you don't need any spellcasting to enter). Solid. Also, the lost spellcasting levels are distributed well.

I couldn't think what archetype to apply the class to, so I just threw it out there for everyone.

OK, cool. I don't like the "+X" phrasing and try to avoid it myself; maybe a little cleaner to say "a light mace with an enhancement bonus equal to half your class level"? Also, you switched from third to first person. Not a big deal, but I noticed.

Thanks - that's a better way of wording it. Also, I'm putting the switching down to, say, Far Realm invaders.

And back to 3rd person. More daily uses for the sphere, cool. Just so you know, the way this is worded, it seems that at 1st level you get +1 and at 4th level you get an additional +3 (so +4 total), etc. Maybe say it gets an extra charge; the number of extra charges it gets increases at these levels as per the table? Does that distinction make sense?

I get what you're saying, so I'll try and mess about with the wording.

Oh, nice. I like more options! Just a nitpick, calling those "levels" is a little confusing, maybe instead call them "tiers"? Or "grades"? Also, I do like the options, but maybe even more? This is the theme of the contest. You could have a big list and let them choose a few at the indicated levels, you could add more granularity, etc.

I like "grades".

Why make it a feat instead of just giving a pseudonatural Animal Companion-style class feature? This means that the char can't take Wild Cohort separately...

I have a better idea. I'll say "As Wild Cohort", but indicate that it's a separate thing. Good catch, btw.

The mental stuff makes more sense thematically than the resistances, at least as far as the ability name goes.

I just ran of out stuff to give, I'm afraid.

"Far Realmsian" is an awesome term. I would say "spending more charges or suffering further Will save penalties" since they are doing both those things in the first place. Yay for aberrant malconvoker!

D'oh, I can't word stuff properly.

Lol. You should define which pseudonatural (ELH or CArc), and maybe use Half-Farspawn instead? Also, please please define what happens with LA when you gain the template. Does their ECL jump?

Ah yes. Must stop people gaining a +35 Natural Armour bonus, lest the PrC get chucked in with Ur-Priest and Hulking Hurler.

Lol. I wonder whether this class is best for spellcasters or non-spellcasters... My first impression was that you intended it for casters, but maybe (since there's nothing having to do with casting at all besides progression) you were just making it so a caster could take this without falling too far behind?

To be honest, I just didn't want to screw over the Sorcerers, Warlocks, Shadowcasters and any other class that doesn't really need nerfing.

This is just... weird. Lol. I thought it was only in Eberron that druids hate aberrations? And bears... haha.
That doesn't make sense. Why would they waste charges on practice?
I think you could have taken a more serious tone with this... but it's quite amusing!

I imagined the Spheroid Oddity practicing on "days off", as it were. And strangeness was the intention, so it seems I have done well.

Lol.
Yeah, there's nothing in here that actually has anything to do with spellcasting other than the progression...

Indeed. Spellcasters just don't need it, in my opinion.

An enjoyable read!

Very glad it was!

[Golden-Esque]

Fifth Review, Forsaker of the Gentler Path

Spoiler

Show

The introduction isn't very catchy. It almost sounds sleepy and I don't get excited when reading it. Your prerequisites are a little off; why have spell-like abilities as a prerequisite? It looks extremely clunky and almost seems like it is built into the class to allow some rules bending. I'd drop it and leave it at 3rd level spells. Which, mind you, is awkwardly high for one of these "merging things together" prestige classes, which usually stick to 2nd-level stuff. As written, entry into this Prestige Class may come at too high of a level for it to be useful.

I could be wrong, but I think you're doing the Maneuvers Known / Stances Known / Maneuvers Readied entry wrong. The way its written, it looks like you get a bonus maneuver (entry 1) and then lose it the next level (entry 0). Model precisely what you see in the Tome of Battle, though.

Wait ... so its a Prestige Class where you're basically a mage that decided to never cast spells again? Then what the heck was the point of the past 5 levels of your career? I'm sorry, this seems so ... contrived. I can understand forswearing magic from a Roleplaying perspective, but to make a class that literally builds up to this decision ... that takes all the drama out of the choice! I'll keep reviewing this class, but this theme is just ... wrong. I don't understand what Spellblade Enchanter is supposed to do, especially because I have no idea what this magic item you're supposed to be building this class off of does.

Your version of Mettle is terrible because it is specifically tied to the use of a martial maneuver. Mettle has been given out before to other classes without such a contrived restriction (see the Witch Hunter PrC in Tome of Magic).

So what I'm getting from this class is that spellblade isn't a magic item; its a special weapon property? So why don't the prerequisites read, "you must own a weapon with the spellblade special ability?" That would have made things a bit clearer.

I really do not like this Prestige Class. Its based off of a terrible idea game-mechanics wise, it appears to be based off of some sort of weapon special ability, and on top of that half the class does not even interact with this weapon property; it only servers to make specific martial maneuvers better. Overall, I think this class needs to be brought back to the chopping block and hammered out so that it is an attractive option.

Rating: 0/10.

Sixth Review, Coiled Guardians

No special treatment for you, Xallace ^_~.

Spoiler

Show

Love the art; very capturing. Might want to scale the picture down so you can actually show it off without having to spoiler it. The description is good; not the best one I've read but powerful none the less. When I think of the rod of the python, I think of Moses. Maybe borrowing more from those chapters in the Bible will help your description. I would have picked Scalykin Domain or a similar reptile/snake based Domain as a prerequisite instead of Turn Undead. Not only would this open up the class to more than just Clerics (I believe Druids can take the domain as well), but its a little more thematic and explains why more Clerics aren't drawn to this Prestige Class, with its fairly lax prerequisites.

Why is the sentence, "The Snake gains the celestial template." bold?
I was confused at first where the snake was coming from; then I realized it was the snake created by the rod of the python. You might want to clarify that in your sentence; it isn't very obvious at first. I would also rephrase the ability to something like, "When the X activates her rod of the python, she may spend two uses of Turn Undead in order to ...." In other news, this makes it more clear why you chose Turn Undead as a prerequisite. You could, however, just as easily expend a use of your 1st level Domain to power it if you have an appropriate domain. ^_~

Tranquility feels out of place in this class. All it serves to do is to make the Cleric and Paladin less dependent on multiple ability scores. This is a noble goal for the Paladin, but the Cleric is still going to be a 17th level caster by the end of this; do they REALLY need the extra boast? I don't think so.

What the heck does, "Amphisbaena" mean? Also, what penalties are you talking about for the quarterstaff? The two-weapon fighting penalties? Because removing those is HUGE! Its basically free Two-Weapon Fighting. What about if I take Improved TWF? Do I not take the -5 on my second off-hand attack? This needs to be clarified a lot.

When we're talking about your snakey magical circle of protection, what are we talking about when you say 10 x class level? We talking 10 feet? 10 miles? 10 inches? I'm being a jerk, but you need to be very clear when you write or players will take advantage of you. The ability itself is cool; kind of a Red Mage of Thay that isn't completely useless without friends.

You never list which level the character gains Meditating Upon the Serpent in the ability's description.

This is a pretty cool class, but it does not feel completed (one of your entries is empty) and there is a LOT of content to this class. It looks like the class is focused on A) making you better at fighting with the Quarterstaff and B) giving you cool magical snake powers. That's all well and good, but it might be better off to limit yourself a bit. This class feels like it does far too much, especially when you could simply write, "This class gains X bonus feat at Y level." You don't need to be super flashy with tons of abilities to win.

Rating: 6/10. This is a strong class with good writing, a very direct theme, and it actually feels like it uses its item to do something cool and exciting. It needs polish, but not a lot of it.

Oh boy. And then I read the entry on the serpent. Xallace, to put it bluntly, this class does FAR too much. It has a powerful companion, great spellcasting, and it significantly boosts your abilities with a particular weapon to Fighter-like levels. It stops progressing Fortitude but starts progressing Reflex, so its got okay saves and if you're a Cleric, then you've got spells to help with that average BAB.

I have to knock the rating down to a 4/10 simply because of that snake. There are times when it is a good thing to bloat up the class, such as when you're providing many options within one class. But this class takes a whole lot of stuff and just gives it to you. Its too much!

[Jeff the Green]

The introduction isn't very catchy. It almost sounds sleepy and I don't get excited when reading it. Your prerequisites are a little off; why have spell-like abilities as a prerequisite? It looks extremely clunky and almost seems like it is built into the class to allow some rules bending. I'd drop it and leave it at 3rd level spells. Which, mind you, is awkwardly high for one of these "merging things together" prestige classes, which usually stick to 2nd-level stuff. As written, entry into this Prestige Class may come at too high of a level for it to be useful.

It's specifically designed to be available starting at level 11, just like Eternal Blade.

I could be wrong, but I think you're doing the Maneuvers Known / Stances Known / Maneuvers Readied entry wrong. The way its written, it looks like you get a bonus maneuver (entry 1) and then lose it the next level (entry 0). Model precisely what you see in the Tome of Battle, though.

I agree, it's funky, but it's copy-pasted from ToB.

Wait ... so its a Prestige Class where you're basically a mage that decided to never cast spells again? Then what the heck was the point of the past 5 levels of your career? I'm sorry, this seems so ... contrived. I can understand forswearing magic from a Roleplaying perspective, but to make a class that literally builds up to this decision ... that takes all the drama out of the choice! I'll keep reviewing this class, but this theme is just ... wrong. I don't understand what Spellblade Enchanter is supposed to do, especially because I have no idea what this magic item you're supposed to be building this class off of does.

You can understand it from a roleplaying perspective, but making a PrC that allows you to do so without having to roll up a new character is wrong?

Your version of Mettle is terrible because it is specifically tied to the use of a martial maneuver. Mettle has been given out before to other classes without such a contrived restriction (see the Witch Hunter PrC in Tome of Magic).

It's not tied to a maneuver; the reference to mind over body and moment of perfect mind is to clarify that the ability works even if you use the maneuvers instead of a straight Will or Fortitude save, since it's not perfectly clear in the pre-ToB versions. That seemed, and still seems, fairly clear to me.

So what I'm getting from this class is that spellblade isn't a magic item; its a special weapon property? So why don't the prerequisites read, "you must own a weapon with the spellblade special ability?" That would have made things a bit clearer.

Fixed.

I really do not like this Prestige Class. Its based off of a terrible idea game-mechanics wise, it appears to be based off of some sort of weapon special ability, and on top of that half the class does not even interact with this weapon property; it only servers to make specific martial maneuvers better. Overall, I think this class needs to be brought back to the chopping block and hammered out so that it is an attractive option.

How very helpful.

Honestly, I appreciate you looking at the class, but I have a hard time your PEACH seriously when my class contains an ability that lets you use a spell as a maneuver and (until now) had another that would have allowed you to make a saving throw to negate a mage armor a wizard cast on himself, and you don't mention either.

[Cheesy74]

The Card Shark's fluff is in progress and will be done by the end of the day (I've been doing a looot of stuff thanks to the start of the new semester). I'm really pleased with the turnout for this competition, it's producing some stellar stuff!

EDIT: If someone wouldn't mind taking a look at the Card Shark, I'd appreciate it. I'm pleased with how its mechanics turned out, but I feel like it doesn't get much in the way of secondary features like feats. My first instinct is to put them on the levels where Cash It In is improved, but I'm not sure what feats would work well with them.

[Xallace]

Sixth Review, Coiled Guardians

No special treatment for you, Xallace ^_~.

I would be insulted if I got special treatment.

Thanks for the critique though! Always appreciated.

Spoiler

Show

Love the art; very capturing. Might want to scale the picture down so you can actually show it off without having to spoiler it. The description is good; not the best one I've read but powerful none the less. When I think of the rod of the python, I think of Moses. Maybe borrowing more from those chapters in the Bible will help your description. I would have picked Scalykin Domain or a similar reptile/snake based Domain as a prerequisite instead of Turn Undead. Not only would this open up the class to more than just Clerics (I believe Druids can take the domain as well), but its a little more thematic and explains why more Clerics aren't drawn to this Prestige Class, with its fairly lax prerequisites.

I was trying to avoid references to Moses for board-related reasons, as well that story being the clear inspiration for the item in the first place - the class is meant to dig a little deeper into serpent symbolism as a whole. Now in all honesty I've been thinking about this class in terms of it being a Pally prestige class rather than anything else - as you note later, it's quite a lot, so perhaps a further restriction on prerequisites would do better, don't you think?

Why is the sentence, "The Snake gains the celestial template." bold?

Very strange formatting error.

I was confused at first where the snake was coming from; then I realized it was the snake created by the rod of the python. You might want to clarify that in your sentence; it isn't very obvious at first. I would also rephrase the ability to something like, "When the X activates her rod of the python, she may spend two uses of Turn Undead in order to ...." In other news, this makes it more clear why you chose Turn Undead as a prerequisite. You could, however, just as easily expend a use of your 1st level Domain to power it if you have an appropriate domain. ^_~

Definitely a good point. Although like I mentioned earlier I've been thinking of this as being a paladin PrC, which is why Turn Undead is a focal point. I don't think using up Smite would make much sense, y'know? But, I've started thinking about alternates already.

Tranquility feels out of place in this class. All it serves to do is to make the Cleric and Paladin less dependent on multiple ability scores. This is a noble goal for the Paladin, but the Cleric is still going to be a 17th level caster by the end of this; do they REALLY need the extra boast? I don't think so.

Once again, paladins. Then again, I could just as well base everything off of Charisma!

Actually I've been reading back over it and was thinking about starting this class again from the ground up. Your critique is certainly helping to cement that idea.

What the heck does, "Amphisbaena" mean?

It's a serpent with heads at both ends.

Also, what penalties are you talking about for the quarterstaff? The two-weapon fighting penalties? Because removing those is HUGE! Its basically free Two-Weapon Fighting. What about if I take Improved TWF? Do I not take the -5 on my second off-hand attack? This needs to be clarified a lot.

Yes, the intent was to remove TWF penalties while you're using a quarterstaff or equivalent. All of the TWF penalties. Other feats included.

When we're talking about your snakey magical circle of protection, what are we talking about when you say 10 x class level? We talking 10 feet? 10 miles? 10 inches? I'm being a jerk, but you need to be very clear when you write or players will take advantage of you. The ability itself is cool; kind of a Red Mage of Thay that isn't completely useless without friends.

Oh, yeah, feet. That's just an omission, thanks for catching it.

You never list which level the character gains Meditating Upon the Serpent in the ability's description.

Oh. 4th. I'll fix that.

This is a pretty cool class, but it does not feel completed (one of your entries is empty)

Yep! Nooooot finished at all, haha.

and there is a LOT of content to this class. It looks like the class is focused on A) making you better at fighting with the Quarterstaff and B) giving you cool magical snake powers. That's all well and good, but it might be better off to limit yourself a bit. This class feels like it does far too much, especially when you could simply write, "This class gains X bonus feat at Y level." You don't need to be super flashy with tons of abilities to win.

Oh don't worry, I didn't have a strategy.
More-so this is just the result of me going "What sorts of divinely-inspired snake-themed powers could I use?" and then writing them in. I actually left several ideas out because I didn't feel like they fit at all. All-in-all I'm actually not pleased with the class so far and am considering either restructuring it from the ground up or removing it entirely.

Rating: 6/10. This is a strong class with good writing, a very direct theme, and it actually feels like it uses its item to do something cool and exciting. It needs polish, but not a lot of it.

Oh boy. And then I read the entry on the serpent. Xallace, to put it bluntly, this class does FAR too much. It has a powerful companion, great spellcasting, and it significantly boosts your abilities with a particular weapon to Fighter-like levels. It stops progressing Fortitude but starts progressing Reflex, so its got okay saves and if you're a Cleric, then you've got spells to help with that average BAB.

I have to knock the rating down to a 4/10 simply because of that snake. There are times when it is a good thing to bloat up the class, such as when you're providing many options within one class. But this class takes a whole lot of stuff and just gives it to you. Its too much!

Yeah, the snake was actually meant to be the focal point of the class... and then I kept writing and now it's this bloated monstrosity (no pun intended). I'm thinking it might be better off as a couple of related prestige classes instead. I'm going to have to mull it over for a couple days, probably. Take care of it this weekend.

[sirpercival]

Foresaker of the Gentler Path

I'm feeling PEACHy!

Spoiler

Show

{opening fluff}

Cool pic! Watch out, you have an extra "e" in Forsaker in a few places. I'd just do a mass find/replace. So, a former spellcaster antimage? Interesting, we'll have to see how it turns out.

ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
Skills: Concentration 13, Knowledge (arcane) 8, Spellcraft 8.
Feats: Craft Magic Arms and Armor
Spells: Ability to cast 3rd-level arcane spells or use 3rd-level spell-like abilities.
Maneuvers: Must know at least two of action before thought, mind over body, and moment of perfect clarity.
Special: Must own a weapon with the spellblade enhancement (PGtF p. 120).

I think you mean "moment of perfect mind", since "moment of perfect clarity" doesn't exist. Any two of a 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd level maneuver will probably mean the 1st and 2nd, but maybe not. So we've got 11th-level entry, including 5 levels of spellcasting and 2nd-level maneuvers (IL 3). Since you get IL 2 from the 5 levels of spellcasting, that means other than the Concentration ranks, you could enter as Wiz 5/Warblade 1. Note that SLAs don't actually have levels; the spells they emulate do, or (if they're invocations) they have level equivalents, but not actual levels. You may want to adjust your wording.

{game rule info}

Hit die? So, an initiator prc. Not unexpected. However, a 10-level initiator with poor BAB? And no good saves? I don't think that's a good idea from a balance standpoint; to justify the terrible chassis, you'll have to make the abilities more overpowered, or no one will take the class. Better to regress both to the mean, I would think. But let's see how it goes.

Class Skills (4+Int skill points per level): Balance, Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Diplomacy, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (history), Listen, Move Silently, Profession, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Spot, Tumble

Medium skill points from a good list. Sounds good.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency
Forsakers of the gentle path gain proficiency with all armors, shields (including tower shields), all simple weapons, and all martial weapons

It's likely they had this before, but okay. If they entered as straight spellcaster and satisfied the maneuver prereqs with Martial Study, this is a benefit.

Maneuvers
At each odd-numbered level, a forsaker of the gentler path gains a new maneuver known from any discipline he already knows at least one stance or two maneuvers in. He must meet a maneuver’s prerequisite to learn it. A forsaker of the gentler path does not add his entire class level to his initiator level to determine his total initiator level and his highest-level maneuvers known (but see Forsaker of Power, below).

At 3rd level, 6th level, and 9th level, a forsaker of the gentler path gain an additional maneuver readied per day.

The wording on which disciplines you can choose from could be a little neater. Maybe have them pick a set of 2 or 3 at first level? Also, maybe add "Unlike other martial adept prestige classes" to the front of the initiator level thing? But this again contributes to the poor chassis and I might consider axing it. Clearly the maneuvers are important, so why make them fall behind?

Stances Known
At 5th level, a forsaker of the gentler path learns a new martial stance from any discipline he knows at least one stance or two maneuvers in. He must meet a stance’s prerequisite to learn it.

If you change the wording on discipline selection above, you can change this to "any discipline available to him".

Continued Study (Ex)
Though he has forsworn the use of magic, the forsaker of the gentler path continues to study it to better understand its effects. He adds his class level to his caster level of any arcane caster class he had levels in before taking his first forsaker of the gentler path level.

Maybe put this after Forsaker of Power? I know it's alphabetical, but this doesn't make sense until you actually have the text saying "you give up spellcasting". Also, feel free to abbreviate to "Forsaker".

And I just realized that this doesn't increase SLA caster levels...

Forsaker of Power (Ex)
Forsakers of the gentler path can cast spells, but choose not to. In exchange for this sacrifice, he gains increased martial ability. He adds half his caster level to his initiator level to determine his total initiator level and his highest-level maneuvers known and gains a bonus to weapon attacks, and a dodge bonus to his armor class equal to half his caster level.

OK, so now I get the half-initiator level thing. The only problem with this is that you could see insanely high ILs with the right build. For example, Spont Div Wiz 5/Knight of the Weave 1/Ultimate Magus 4/Forsaker 10 has a KotW CL of 33. Also, CL from one class or total of all classes?

You should put in some crunch about what "chooses not to" means, or at least put a reference to Ex Forsakers below.

Spellblade Enchanter (Ex)
A foresaker of the gentler path need not rely only on his own abilities to combat spellcasters. He can use his knowledge of arcane energies to add the spellblade enhancement to any weapon by spending 3000 gp worth of materials and three days of work. He need not expend a spell turning spell to do so.

XP? I assume not, but it should be explicit.

In addition, a foresaker of the gentler path can further enhance any weapon with the spellblade enhancement. He can add any enhancement to such a weapon without expending or casting any spells so long as he meets the prerequisites and his class level is at least equal to the spell the enhancement normally requires. He must still spend the normal XP cost and raw materials.

This is a little confusing. What you're saying is that he can add weapon properties without having the prereq spells? Or is it just enhancement bonus?

Mettle (Ex)
At 2nd level and higher, a forsaker of the gentler path can resist magical and unusual attacks with great willpower or fortitude. If he makes a successful Will or Fortitude save (or a successful Concentration check made as part of mind over body, or moment of perfect clarity) against a spell or spell-like ability that normally would have a lesser effect on a successful save (such as any spell with a saving throw entry of Will half or Fortitude partial), he instead completely negates the effect. An unconscious or sleeping forsaker of the gentler path does not gain the benefi t of mettle.

Striaghtforward (though again clarity->mind). Mettle's good for antimages.

Readied Mind (Ex)
Extensive training allows a forsaker of the gentler path to recover much more quickly from a magical attack. Starting at 2nd level, any time he successfully reduces or negates the effect of a spell or spell-like ability using action before thought, mind over body, or moment of perfect clarity, he may make a concentration check against DC 20 + the level of the spell or spell-like ability he used the maneuver to reduce or negate the effect of as a free action. If he succeeds, he recovers the expended maneuver instantly.

That wording is a little clunky. How about "he may make a Concentration check (DC 20 + the spell's level) as a free action to recover the maneuver instantly."

Evasion (Ex)
A 3rd level forsaker of the gentler path gains the ability to evade magical attack. He gains evasion, as the rogue ability, except that it functions regardless of the armor he wears and applies to Concentration checks made as part of action before thought.

You should be a little more explicit about how this works, and maybe not call it evasion -- some people might skim over it without realizing. So basically this is evasion that only works when you use the maneuver, swapping the Concentration check for the Reflex save?

Spellblade Focus (Ex)
A foresaker of the gentler path has trained with spellblades to such a degree that he can instinctively use even unfamiliar weapons with the spellblade enhancement. At 3rd level he gains the Weapon Focus feat for any weapon with the spellblade enhancement. In addition, if he takes any feat with a prerequisite of Weapon Focus that applies to a specific weapon type he may choose spellblades rather than a specific weapon type.

Hm, okay. Allowing some versatility in terms of equipment. WF is pretty underwhelming, but with the Forsaker of Power ability, if you build right, you don't need it. Although... one alternative is to make the bonuses you give out from Forsaker of Power instead apply here, and only when you wield a spellblade. Ties the item in more closely with the class abilities, and spreads out the benefits.

Versatile Spellblade (Ex)
Normally a spellblade is attuned to a specific spell and this choice cannot be altered. Not so with spellblades wielded by foresakers of the gentler path. At 4th level he can spend one hour each morning in practice with a spellblade to change the spell it is attuned to. If he also has the Weapon Aptitude class ability, he may spend this hour concurrently with the hour spent practicing to change weapon-specific feats. This alteration lasts until the foresaker of the gentler path chooses to spend an hour to change the spell the spellblade is attuned to again.

Nice. I might even give this out earlier, since this is basically what the class is supposed to be about.

Double Spellblade (Ex)
Starting at 6th level, a foresaker of the gentler path frees a spellblade from its restriction of a single spell. As part of the hour he spends using the versatile spellblade class feature, he may make a DC 30 Spellcraft check. If successful, he may specify a single additional spell to which the spellblade enhancement applies. Unlike the versatile spellblade class feature, this effect lasts only 24 hours.

Nice! I like it.

Spurn the Path Abandoned(Ex)
At 7th level a foresaker of the gentler path gains spell resistance equal to 15 + his initiator level.

OK, not too shabby. Can you include a raise/lower action that's better than the horrendous default? Free action is best...

Multiple Spellblade (Ex)
As the foresaker of the gentler path grows in power and knowledge, so does his ability to unlock greater flexibility from his spellblade. Starting at 8th level, whenever he uses the double spellblade class feature, he may add a further additional spell to which the spellblade enhancement applies for each 5 he beats the Spellcraft check.

This wording is a little clunky. "whenever he uses his Double Spellblade ability, he may have the spellblade property apply to one additional spell for every 5 by which his Spellcraft result beats the DC."

Immovable Object (Ex)
As he approaches the zenith of his career, a forsaker of the gentler path gains the ability to shrug off magical effects, even those that others can not even attempt to endure. Starting at 9th level, he can use the action before thought, mind over body, or moment of perfect clarity maneuvers to negate the effects of any spell or spell-like ability targeting him that does not offer a saving throw. The DC of the spell or spell-like ability is equal to 20+the spell's level+the caster's key ability score (if the caster does not have a key ability score, use Charisma) or 20+1/2 the caster's HD+the caster's Charisma for spell-like abilities that do not mimic a spell. Which maneuver he uses depends on the school of the spell: mind over body if Necromancy or Abjuration; moment of perfect clarity if Enchantment, Illusion, or Divination; and action before thought if Evocation or Conjuration. If the spell is Universal or the spell-like ability does not have a school of magic it is associatedwith, he may use any of the three maneuvers.

Transmutation? This is kinda cool.

Absorb Spell (Ex)
At 10th level a foresaker of the gentler path reaches the pinacle of his power. Whenever a spellblade he wields absorbs a spell, he may choose to absorb rather than redirect it or allow it to dissipate harmlessly. If he does so, he suffers the full effect of the spell and makes a DC 20 + twice the spell's level Spellcraft check. If he succeeds he learns the spell as a maneuver, replacing a maneuver of the same level as the spell so absorbed.

Oh. Um, holy crap. So first, what if he doesn't have a maneuver of the appropriate level? Second, this is hella broken. How about, like, Celerity? Polymorph? Friendly Fire? Um, Miracle? Hey, let's produce any 8th-level cleric spell or 7th-level anything spell every other round or so! This is arcane swordsage but much more ridiculous. Or, you know, Shapechange.

A spell-maneuver is Supernatural. Any effects based on caster level are instead based on initiator level, and its save DC (if any) is equal to 10 + maneuver level + the foresaker of the gentler path's Intelligence modifier. If the spell the maneuver duplicates has a Corrupt, Sacrifice, or XP component, the foresaker of the gentler path must pay the cost each time he uses the maneuver. If the spell has a costly material component, he must possess (but not necessarily manipulate or hold) a focus equal to 50 x the cost of the material component in order to use the maneuver. If the spell has a costly focus, he must possess (but not necessarily manipulate or hold) a focus of the same cost.

This helps with mitigating things like Gate, but there are enough broken spells that don't have components like this that it's still nuts.

A foresaker of the gentler path can know a number of spell-maneuvers equal to half his Intelligence modifier, minimum 1. He cannot attempt to learn another if he already knows this maximum. If he so wishes, he may spend eight hours meditating to forget all spell-maneuvers he knows. These are replaced with the normal maneuvers he replaced with the spell-maneuvers when he learned them.

I don't know why you would ever do this, unless you come across something that you have to have and are already at your maximum.

Ex-Forsakers of the Gentler Path
The gentler path of magic is eternally seductive, and those that abandon it must eternally remain on guard for the temptation to return to it. A forsaker of the gentler path that prepares or casts a spell or uses a spell-like ability loses all foresaker of the gentler path abilities (including the maneuvers readied and known and stances known, but not weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies or the hit die associated with foresaker of the gentler path levels). He may not progress any farther in levels as a foresaker of the gentler path. He regains his abilities and advancement potential if he atones for her violations (see the atonement spell description), as appropriate. If he was magically compelled to prepare or cast a spell or use a spell-like ability, he loses no abilities or advancement potential and need not atone.

Gender confusion, a little. I'd put this higher up, in a spoiler.

So, thoughts: the balance of this is completely out of whack. Personally, I'd come up with a new capstone, tweak the CL->IL formula to prevent abuse, and improve the chassis. I like the ideas you were going for, but the execution needs work.

Don't forget your fluff!

[MoleMage]

Alright Jeff, I finally am getting around to it, sorry it took so long. Work has been crazy.

Spoiler

Show

Requirements:I understand where all of them are coming from, which is good.

HD, Skills, Saves:This is a class that's supposed to be fighting magic users, which requires magic-using classes to get into. It really is gonna be hurt by the poor BAB, and every class has at least one good save; don't be stingy. I'd recommend Will and/or Ref, in keeping with the anti-magic theme. You don't seem to have a hit dice listed.

Skills look okay.

Maneuvers and Stances known: Given the requirements, these are of course going to happen. I'm not versed enough in maneuvers to know exactly what a normal prestige class progression is for them.

Continued Study:This seems odd. If they give up magic, why do they continue to progress in it? I understand some of the mechanical benefits (Item Creation feats), but I just don't understand the reasoning behind it.

Forsaker of Power: Oh, here it is. I understand the BAB and Caster level stuff now. I revoke my complains about those things. Does this bonus grant iterative attacks or not?

Spellblade Enchanter:So this is a way to make spellblade weapons and further enchant them without losing grace by using magic?

Mettle and Evasion: Yup, besting magic effects. Maybe consider a special caveat that for the Forsaker, it only applies to Spells or Spell-like ability.

Readied Mind: I don't really understand how this ability works. Do you just make the concentration check to keep the maneuver? Maybe clean up the wording.

Spellblade Focus: A lot of people are going to just stick with one Spellblade weapon, especially since they can enchant their favorite weapons with extra abilities already. This ability seems underwhelming, but it comes with Mettle, which is cool enough for its own level.

Versatile Spellblade: Good. Doesn't do much to help with the Spellblade Focus's above mentioned problems, but the ability adds something new to the magic abilities of their iconic item. In this contest, that's essential.

Fifth level: They get a stance and a maneuver, but I feel like there's something lacking here. Keep in mind, that a new spell level or level of maneuvers counts as something filling a level, but you can't predict when someone going into this class gets new levels, so this might be underwhelming.

Double Spellblade: This is another good one, like Versatile Spellblade, but the name is misleading (I imagine two spellblades, not a spellblade doing two things).

Spurn the Path Abandoned: Aside from the inherent problems with Spell Resistance (namely, that by rules as written you resist even harmless spells, unless you take a standard action to allow all spells to affect you for a round). However, I believe most people don't play with those rules, dysfunctional as they are, in which case this is good.

Multiple Spellblade: See Double Spellblade.

Immovable Object: Add a caveat that they have to be wielding the Spellblade to benefit from this ability, and I'm all onboard.

Absorb Spell: Make sure there's a clause in there that the Forsaker must know a maneuver of the level of the spell they are trying to learn. Also be aware that you're giving this class the ability to do things like cast Disjunction once per encounter. Ninth level spells, as a whole, are extremely powerful. Consider the Forsaker whose wizard friend uses Wish to buff him. The Forsaker gains the benefits of...having a permanently boosted stat. And can use any spell in the wizard list 8 or lower whenever he could use maneuvers.

To sum up, good idea, poor execution. Consider approaching it from a different angle.

[Golden-Esque]

You can understand it from a roleplaying perspective, but making a PrC that allows you to do so without having to roll up a new character is wrong?

Your Prestige Class basically turns those levels of Wizard / Sorcerer / Insert Spellcasting Class here into levels of Commoner. It isn't a good design philosophy.

How very helpful.

Honestly, I appreciate you looking at the class, but I have a hard time your PEACH seriously when my class contains an ability that lets you use a spell as a maneuver and (until now) had another that would have allowed you to make a saving throw to negate a mage armor a wizard cast on himself, and you don't mention either.

Do you know what else would let you use a spell like that? Just casting the spell. Do you know what else would negate a mage armor spell? Dispel Magic, which you'd get much sooner than your prestige class ability. If you simply did not try to qualify for this Prestige Class. I would be more impressed with buff-removal if it wasn't tied to already possessing levels in a class and then invalidating them for roleplaying reasons. Roleplaying can be an awesome reason to add class abilities, but there is never a good reason to take away or restrict abilities that you have already earned. After all, that's why the atonement spell exists. It is not good design and I can assure you that anyone who is building a character in the low-levels is going to ignore you're Prestige Class. They'll probably just go for Jade Phoenix Mage, which has amazing fluff and doesn't ignore the low-level wizard / sorcerer's class abilities.

And my point about your class belonging in this contest by only the most technical of reasons still stands; it feels very cheap to base your class off of a weapon ability when everyone else is using specific, named items.

[Golden-Esque]

Yeah, the snake was actually meant to be the focal point of the class... and then I kept writing and now it's this bloated monstrosity (no pun intended). I'm thinking it might be better off as a couple of related prestige classes instead. I'm going to have to mull it over for a couple days, probably. Take care of it this weekend.

I think a Prestige Class focused on improving the snake into an animal companion-like entity would be very cool; something along the lines of how Driz'zt Dourdern interacts with his Panther. (Aka he uses that thing WAY more often than he should be able to!) Including some benefits that improve how Two-Weapon Fighting works with the staff aren't a bad idea either. Pathfinder has a bunch of Quarterstaff fighting feats and a magus archetype based around it; you could look at them for inspiration.

[bindin garoth]

Well currently making changed here and there, a little bit at a time. Hopefully I'll have time to finish this before the contest ends, I'm expecting to have a big chance to make changes sunday.

[Zelkon]

Gah! So frustrated. I need some help on my PrC. The idea is that a wizard can grab a spell out of his pocket in addition to some normal casting and cast it, but the spell is pulled out semi-randomly. They put different spells in different pockets, and you roll dice when you take them out and cast the one that corresponds with the number you rolled. This is to offset all the other benefits of the class, and also taking more random results (having a pocket where you roll a d10 instead of a d4 to see what spell you cast) nets you more benefits (like an increased caster level or free metamagic). But what do I do for spontaneous casters? Rolling randomly takes away their advantage of casting whatever, whenever.

[sirpercival]

Gah! So frustrated. I need some help on my PrC. The idea is that a wizard can grab a spell out of his pocket in addition to some normal casting and cast it, but the spell is pulled out semi-randomly. They put different spells in different pockets, and you roll dice when you take them out and cast the one that corresponds with the number you rolled. This is to offset all the other benefits of the class, and also taking more random results (having a pocket where you roll a d10 instead of a d4 to see what spell you cast) nets you more benefits (like an increased caster level or free metamagic). But what do I do for spontaneous casters? Rolling randomly takes away their advantage of casting whatever, whenever.

Require the ability to prepare spells?

[Zelkon]

Require the ability to prepare spells?

I guess... I'd like to hear what other people suggest, if anyone would like to.

[Jeff the Green]

Well, looks like I'm going to have to withdraw. I've got family stuff going on and won't have time to finish. I'll post the Forsaker in its own thread when I have the time to polish it.

Thanks for the PEACHes, guys.