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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    Morph Bark's Avatar

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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Phosphate View Post
    Wait, what?!

    Illusions are not real. In no way or form. Spells that manipulate light create energy, and therefore are Evocations.
    I'd just like to point out here that manipulation is by no means the same as creation, at all.

    For example, there are superheroes that can manipulate fire, but cannot produce it, whereas there are other superheroes that can both create and manipulate fire. (You may substitute "fire" for basically any other "elemental" ability.)
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  2. - Top - End - #152
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Phosphate View Post
    Wait, what?!

    Illusions are not real. In no way or form. Spells that manipulate light create energy, and therefore are Evocations.
    Shadow Evocation disagrees.

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  3. - Top - End - #153
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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    I'd just like to point out here that manipulation is by no means the same as creation, at all.

    For example, there are superheroes that can manipulate fire, but cannot produce it, whereas there are other superheroes that can both create and manipulate fire. (You may substitute "fire" for basically any other "elemental" ability.)
    The one that only manipulates the fire is a transmuter. Maybe I didn't express myself well enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by peacenlove View Post
    Shadow Evocation disagrees.
    That is true only because WotC are fallacious. Hence, for instance, my Prc having a penalty to both normal and shadow evocation.

  4. - Top - End - #154
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    But, simply manipulating light does not create energy. If you have existing light, and alter its direction magically, you haven't created any energy by doing so.
    Plague Rat in the Playground

    Quote Originally Posted by SJ Tucker, Firebird's Child
    Wonders of the water air and earth are all the same
    you'll never know a wonder like the wonders of the flame!
    Freely fly as what you are and never walk in shame;
    You must not fear to blister if you'd live a life in flame -
    I am girl and firebird and solace is my name!

  5. - Top - End - #155
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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by C'nor View Post
    But, simply manipulating light does not create energy. If you have existing light, and alter its direction magically, you haven't created any energy by doing so.
    I. Agree.
    God, people on forums like to argue so much they miss it when their opponent admits he made a mistake.

  6. - Top - End - #156
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    I may have missed a post, or misread you, I admit.
    Plague Rat in the Playground

    Quote Originally Posted by SJ Tucker, Firebird's Child
    Wonders of the water air and earth are all the same
    you'll never know a wonder like the wonders of the flame!
    Freely fly as what you are and never walk in shame;
    You must not fear to blister if you'd live a life in flame -
    I am girl and firebird and solace is my name!

  7. - Top - End - #157
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by C'nor View Post
    I'd like to point out that there are other ways of producing Illusions, if what you mean is "something that appears real but isn't". You could alter the feedback that the brain is receiving, for example.
    I was also mentioning the fact half (or more?) of them are sneak-attack classes, in the "good-aligned ninjas hide in the light instead of the shadow!" cliche...


    Quote Originally Posted by Cormag81 View Post
    2117: No matter how good a debater I am out of character there is no way to logically get out of falling after your paladin kills his patron god.

  8. - Top - End - #158
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    *Shrugs*

    I didn't really care, not having followed this contest; I was just pointing out his error to the person that said that the definition of Illusion was manipulated light.
    Plague Rat in the Playground

    Quote Originally Posted by SJ Tucker, Firebird's Child
    Wonders of the water air and earth are all the same
    you'll never know a wonder like the wonders of the flame!
    Freely fly as what you are and never walk in shame;
    You must not fear to blister if you'd live a life in flame -
    I am girl and firebird and solace is my name!

  9. - Top - End - #159
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by boomwolf View Post
    I was also mentioning the fact half (or more?) of them are sneak-attack classes, in the "good-aligned ninjas hide in the light instead of the shadow!" cliche...
    Exactly two (out of nine) classes have sneak attack, and exactly one of them is anywhere near the "good-aligned ninjas hide in the light" idea (which I challenge you to post enough examples of to qualify it as "cliche"), and that one is mine, which hides in the light and the dark, neither of which having anything to do with alignment, but with literal, actual light and dark.

    If you're going to paint with such a broad, dismissive brush, you might want to make sure you have a proper canvas, or you're going to end up looking very, very silly.

    Because you'll be covered in paint.
    Last edited by Hyooz; 2011-09-06 at 03:53 PM.

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  10. - Top - End - #160
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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by boomwolf View Post
    I was also mentioning the fact half (or more?) of them are sneak-attack classes, in the "good-aligned ninjas hide in the light instead of the shadow!" cliche...
    Well, mine is a straight up in your face blaster/buffer...if played to the best of his ability. Because blasters need more love.

  11. - Top - End - #161
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by C'nor View Post
    I'd like to point out that there are other ways of producing Illusions, if what you mean is "something that appears real but isn't". You could alter the feedback that the brain is receiving, for example.
    I know that this is kind of beside the point, however, when considering the way Illusions function in D&D, which is what I was talking about, they have some specific ways they work. For instance, if one were to alter the feedback that the brain is receiving, it would only work for a certain creature, unless you managed to alter the feedback of every brain of every creature that sees the illusion, which is highly unlikely. In addition, the fact that if a creature interacts with the Illusion it can break, implies that only one or two sense are being affected by the Illusion. How exactly would one create only sight, or sound, and not touch as well? That seems shaky, at best.
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    NOTHING is simple. NO EXCEPTIONS. No, not even that.

  12. - Top - End - #162
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    If you can manipulate electricity (or lightning, since I doubt it would actually say that), which I'm sure there's some sort of spell for, you could control the electrical signals sent and received by the eye before they reach the brain. It would take a lot of practice to get right, but you could do it.
    Plague Rat in the Playground

    Quote Originally Posted by SJ Tucker, Firebird's Child
    Wonders of the water air and earth are all the same
    you'll never know a wonder like the wonders of the flame!
    Freely fly as what you are and never walk in shame;
    You must not fear to blister if you'd live a life in flame -
    I am girl and firebird and solace is my name!

  13. - Top - End - #163
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    I am talking specifically about spells of the Illusion school, even more specifically, figment spells.

    Also, as frigging awesome as that would be, it still doesn't account for the fact that figment spells (I probably should have been more specific on that), or really Illusion spells in general, affect multiple creatures, which would be next to impossible with electric signals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    NOTHING is simple. NO EXCEPTIONS. No, not even that.

  14. - Top - End - #164
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    There are actually some illusion spells that work by altering only selected beings perception, such as phantasmal killer. There are also illusions that work by altering light, producing sound, or simulating other senses (such as olfactory illusions and tactile illusions as opposed to the more common auditory or visual illusions). In any case you can break through them since even if you perceive there is something there and can feel it, there isn't actually anything there and you can push through.

    That said, outside spells, illusions can simply be things like slight of hand or other similar deceptions and performances (ventriloquists give the illusion the dummy is talking, mimes give the illusion they're interacting with something, etc.)

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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by C'nor View Post
    It would take a lot of practice to get right, but you could do it.
    On the other hand, simply manipulating electricity in someone's visual receptors to permanently blind him is MUCH easier.

    EITHER WAY, [Shadow] spells should be conjurations, not illusions. Or at the least, belong to both schools.

  16. - Top - End - #166
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    True. And I bet that would be a lot harder to get rid of than magical blindness, too.

    And yes, if you're bringing things in from another plane, that should be a Conjuration spell, though if it's an illusion then it should be in both.
    Plague Rat in the Playground

    Quote Originally Posted by SJ Tucker, Firebird's Child
    Wonders of the water air and earth are all the same
    you'll never know a wonder like the wonders of the flame!
    Freely fly as what you are and never walk in shame;
    You must not fear to blister if you'd live a life in flame -
    I am girl and firebird and solace is my name!

  17. - Top - End - #167
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyooz View Post
    Exactly two (out of nine) classes have sneak attack, and exactly one of them is anywhere near the "good-aligned ninjas hide in the light" idea (which I challenge you to post enough examples of to qualify it as "cliche"), and that one is mine, which hides in the light and the dark, neither of which having anything to do with alignment, but with literal, actual light and dark.

    If you're going to paint with such a broad, dismissive brush, you might want to make sure you have a proper canvas, or you're going to end up looking very, very silly.
    But looking silly is my specialty...

    Anyways I should have used another wording then "sneak-attack", because I meant to include all the bluffers/illusionist/real SA users etc in that...the wider concept of "light as shadow replacement/manipulating light to make shadow" includes exactly 4 of the 8 (counting is tech) classes posted, that is to say "half".

    as for examples, this theme (light as "shadow" replacement/maker) as been made in almost every second battle-focused anime/cartoon/action tv ever to some extent...(from Mutant X to Samurai Jack)

    This leads me to my final point, my "Blacklight Deciple" would be a very bad idea, and as such I scrap it (or it would have made 5 out of 9 as he manipulates both light and shadow)

    So, instead, I will revisit one of my old creations, and base a class out of him.
    Shurain, the demon/god, also known as The Purifier, The Burning Hatred, The Red Rain, The Eternal Blaze, AntiPelor.
    The Chaotic Evil sun god Shurain, the only god who refuses to any prayer, the only god with no followers, the only god who rejects the mere concept of worship, he who drains his power directly from planes of fire, and all that burns becomes a part of him.

    And the Purifiers of Shurain (the class) are twisted-minded individuals, picked by Shurain to carry his power, and unleash it to burn everything, the ones Shurain has determined to have the most destructive potential. (needless to say this class is intended for CE, but NE and CN can also get in)

    Or should I make a few quotes, as a small preview:
    "Glorious Shurain! lend me your light!"
    "Shurain light my path, and burn all who stand in it"
    "A fortunes death is to bath in the purifying light of Shurain, as it reduces you to nothing, consider yourself lucky."
    "Cleanse! Purge! KILL!"
    (read in homicidal screaming voice:)"MELT EVERYTHING MUST MELT!"

    Fluff-wise you can't choose this class, you get chosen for it and get stuck with it's power, for better and worse. (I just love making classes that grant great power, but you can't fully control it!)
    Last edited by boomwolf; 2011-09-08 at 11:39 AM.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cormag81 View Post
    2117: No matter how good a debater I am out of character there is no way to logically get out of falling after your paladin kills his patron god.

  18. - Top - End - #168
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    So...what's the ruling on metaphorical light for the class? Codename: Twilight's Guide (i.e. no REAL name for it yet ) uses a sort of spiritual light to act as a beacon for restless spirits. I think that's currently acceptable, but I wanted to make sure.

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  19. - Top - End - #169
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn_in_Tonic View Post
    So...what's the ruling on metaphorical light for the class? Codename: Twilight's Guide (i.e. no REAL name for it yet ) uses a sort of spiritual light to act as a beacon for restless spirits. I think that's currently acceptable, but I wanted to make sure.
    I'm intrigued. Proceed.

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  20. - Top - End - #170
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by ErrantX View Post
    I'm intrigued. Proceed.
    Excellent. *rubs hands together evilly*

    This one is actually going to be rather difficult to word properly...ah well. I've got time.

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  21. - Top - End - #171
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    The Twilight's Guide has been mostly posted. Comments and concerns are appreciated!

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  22. - Top - End - #172
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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Hmm, nice stuff. Requirements sting a bit though.

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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Phosphate View Post
    Hmm, nice stuff. Requirements sting a bit though.
    Yeah...I've never really intended my Prestige Classes to be easy to enter though. It's my personal philosophy that the class should appeal to players on the merits of it being INTERESTING, mechanics be (more or less) damned. In short, it's not a case of "why would anyone not take this and/or take this with a character of X class," but rather a case of "can I make this interesting enough that someone will build a character around it? As such, no one is going to just discover that they happen to qualify for one of my PrCs. So the requirements sting a bit, but then again some of the abilities are QUITE good. I mean, a bunch of telekinesis spells helping you out? Dodging to another plane? Having an invincible, Constitution-draining sidekick? That's some rather serious punch there.
    Last edited by Djinn_in_Tonic; 2011-09-10 at 04:56 PM.

    Ingredients

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    Instructions

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  24. - Top - End - #174
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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    I don't mean it's hard to enter...mine's actually harder, considering you need 4 skills and level 4 spells, which are quite up there. I mean it hurts you (you will not need the ranks you invest in Survival, and old age is, well...also the alignment is incredibly restrictive)

    One other thing. Your description of a "souled" creature being anything with Int, Wis and Cha...well outsiders and intelligent undead have Int, Wis and Cha, but that doesn't give them souls.

  25. - Top - End - #175
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Phosphate View Post
    I don't mean it's hard to enter...mine's actually harder, considering you need 4 skills and level 4 spells, which are quite up there. I mean it hurts you (you will not need the ranks you invest in Survival, and old age is, well...also the alignment is incredibly restrictive)
    Ah, yes. The old age is there for the reason that I liked the association with being on Death's door and yet still living (hence Unquenchable Flame of Life, Spirit Sense [which requires a near-death experience], and Tomb-tainted Soul). It gives a very specific feeling that I wanted.

    Survival is there because you ARE a guide, and the alignment is because, if anyone is going to be ferrying the spirits of the dead, it should be an unaligned individual who is not necessary swayed by the battle of good and evil.

    One other thing. Your description of a "souled" creature being anything with Int, Wis and Cha...well outsiders and intelligent undead have Int, Wis and Cha, but that doesn't give them souls.
    Not in the traditional sense, no. But the outsider type makes it rather clear that they ARE their souls, in my interpretation. So I think it still qualifies.
    Last edited by Djinn_in_Tonic; 2011-09-10 at 06:45 PM.

    Ingredients

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    Instructions

    Pour Djinn and tonic water into a glass filled with ice cubes. Stir well. Garnish with lime wedge. Serve.

  26. - Top - End - #176
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Djinn is back! Yay!

    ... Oh no! Djinn is back! My chances of winning -> shot.

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  27. - Top - End - #177
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyooz View Post
    Djinn is back! Yay!

    ... Oh no! Djinn is back! My chances of winning -> shot.
    Heh. Maybe not...this class is very strange.

    Also, I lost a contest.

    ...once...

    ...in the partner contest...

    ...when I submitted a level 40 Prestige class...

    ...and we only were 1 vote behind...

    ...so I'm beatable!

    Ingredients

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    Instructions

    Pour Djinn and tonic water into a glass filled with ice cubes. Stir well. Garnish with lime wedge. Serve.

  28. - Top - End - #178
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    My gods, Djinn is back?

    *Goes to see if the second impossible event occurs - Djinn Answers His Phone*


    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Gareth View Post
    My gods, Djinn is back?

    *Goes to see if the second impossible event occurs - Djinn Answers His Phone*
    Nah...that would be crazy. Also, I'm actually busy.

    Ingredients

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    Instructions

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  30. - Top - End - #180
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Hey welcome back Djinn!
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