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  1. - Top - End - #181
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Welcome back, Djinn!

    Please spare me!

    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn_in_Tonic View Post
    Heh. Maybe not...this class is very strange.

    Also, I lost a contest.
    Links or it didn't happen.
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  2. - Top - End - #182
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    Links or it didn't happen.
    Lord_Wardens of the Silent Cage and the Illustrious Ones lost the very first partner contest.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
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  3. - Top - End - #183
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Gareth View Post
    Lord_Wardens of the Silent Cage and the Illustrious Ones lost the very first partner contest.
    Your wording implies more partner contests have gone on since. Oddly enough, my entry this time steals ideas from what Kellus and I were working on for that contest. That said, I've often contemplated starting up monthly or bimonthly partner contests. I wonder if there'd be people interested.

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  4. - Top - End - #184
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Gareth View Post
    Lord_Wardens of the Silent Cage and the Illustrious Ones lost the very first partner contest.
    Oh man, that contest. Xallace and I worked our arses off for that one; I don't think I've ever put more thought, effort, or planning into any Homebrew project I've done since o_o.

    That contest also makes me laugh, personally, because I had never really read any part of the Tome of Magic before that contest xD.

  5. - Top - End - #185
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Golden-Esque View Post
    Oh man, that contest. Xallace and I worked our arses off for that one; I don't think I've ever put more thought, effort, or planning into any Homebrew project I've done since o_o.
    Oh, don't you worry, Djinn and I will have our revenge. After all, we still have all the notes for our original idea, one which pits F.A.T.E. against Destiny.

    *Maniacal laughter echoes through the thread*


    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
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  6. - Top - End - #186
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Golden-Esque View Post
    Oh man, that contest. Xallace and I worked our arses off for that one; I don't think I've ever put more thought, effort, or planning into any Homebrew project I've done since o_o.

    That contest also makes me laugh, personally, because I had never really read any part of the Tome of Magic before that contest xD.
    Sort of glad we didn't win then, cause that contest, for me, was sort of "Derp. Let's see what crazy stuff I can get away with in this contest. EPIC GO!"

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  7. - Top - End - #187
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Gareth View Post
    Oh, don't you worry, Djinn and I will have our revenge. After all, we still have all the notes for our original idea, one which pits F.A.T.E. against Destiny.

    *Maniacal laughter echoes through the thread*
    Is ErrantX doing another partner contest? I was under the impression that he didn't like how complicated it got trying to pick entries towards the end, coupled with the fact that it kind of stinks to have to rely on someone else to get your entry in; I remember a lot of people complaining about that.

    But yeah, if Xallace is still floating around the forums, I'm game for a rematch! >: D Would we doing Fate and Destiny vs. Gods and Vestiges again, lol?

  8. - Top - End - #188
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn_in_Tonic View Post
    Sort of glad we didn't win then, cause that contest, for me, was sort of "Derp. Let's see what crazy stuff I can get away with in this contest. EPIC GO!"
    Well, what happened for us is that we actually came up with the story, then build the Prestige Classes around that story. Personally, I used to do is come up with the mechanics I want to do first, then fill out a background to fit the mechanics. Having a story as inspiration was HUGE for our success, I think, and it's definitely a lesson I took from that contest in designing; things are ALWAYS stronger when there's a synergy correlation between fluff and mechanics.

  9. - Top - End - #189
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Golden-Esque View Post
    Having a story as inspiration was HUGE for our success, I think, and it's definitely a lesson I took from that contest in designing; things are ALWAYS stronger when there's a synergy correlation between fluff and mechanics.
    Oh, I know. I don't think Gareth and I necessarily lost to bad flavor, although yours was definitely stronger...I honestly think we lost (in part...other entries were exceptional in that contest, and Gareth and I definitely weren't quite up to par) due to the fact that NO ONE, us included, knows how to judge class balance at that level, nor really knows what to do when presented with such a class.

    And, to be honest, it sort of felt good to lose. Helped show me that not all of my wins were based on just tradition and/or favoritism.
    Last edited by Djinn_in_Tonic; 2011-09-10 at 09:30 PM.

    Ingredients

    2oz Djinn
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    Instructions

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  10. - Top - End - #190
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Golden-Esque View Post
    Is ErrantX doing another partner contest? I was under the impression that he didn't like how complicated it got trying to pick entries towards the end, coupled with the fact that it kind of stinks to have to rely on someone else to get your entry in; I remember a lot of people complaining about that.

    But yeah, if Xallace is still floating around the forums, I'm game for a rematch! >: D Would we doing Fate and Destiny vs. Gods and Vestiges again, lol?
    I'd do another one, if people wanted to do one. Hybrid Theory and Mono E Mono always struck me as happily repeatable ones, as the rest of its just plain open.

    -X
    Chris Bennett
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  11. - Top - End - #191
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    @Djin...then we agree to disagree I guess. Never felt like roleplaying flavor should limit the way you can play a class...

  12. - Top - End - #192
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Phosphate View Post
    @Djin...then we agree to disagree I guess. Never felt like roleplaying flavor should limit the way you can play a class...
    With base classes I agree, but with PrCs? Those are practically built on flavor.
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  13. - Top - End - #193
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    With base classes I agree, but with PrCs? Those are practically built on flavor.
    Yep. A Base class should be almost infinitely adaptable within the specifications of the class (and sometimes beyond, and conversely, in my homebrew philosophy, a PrC is a very specific and extremely character defining thing. When asked "what are you?", a member of a Prestige Class should, in my mind, answer that he is a member of that class.

    As written, for example, a Wizard taking the Archmage class is, well...still a wizard. But a Binder taking, say, my Seidkona of the Iron Bands class would never merely call himself a Binder, since the PrC is designed to become (by its flavor) such a huge part of that character's identity.

    But I'll agree to disagree.

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  14. - Top - End - #194
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    I'm agreeing with Djinn as well. A fighter can call himself any number of things from a knight, swordsman, cavalier, armsman, guard, warder, etc. He's still a fighter, because fighter is the base of his abilities. Now if he were to prestige class into a class like Kensai(CW), he's going to universally call himself a Kensai, because that class defines him.

    Base class provide a wide base that any number of concepts, themes, ideas, and backgrounds could spawn an amazing character. Prestige class is a defining and specialized class that redefines what that character is, he is no longer just a fighter or a wizard, he's now something more and something more special.

    -X
    Chris Bennett
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  15. - Top - End - #195
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Say, ErrantX? Any chance of getting a winner's list for each contest? 'cause I was trying to find the winners of past contests for the purposes of this post, and I found it EXTREMELY difficult: I had to actually Google the voting threads themselves. Hence why I didn't just use the most recent contests.

    Actually, ErrantX, I'd even call the Kensai a poor example, as all the Kensai (the CW version...I'm not talking about the number of homebrew versions I know little of) really is is a superior fighter who specializes in a single weapon. That's easily within the confines of the Fighter base class.

    My thoughts on the matter may be a bit extreme, but, looking at past winners of this contest, I think my theory is supported: The Etherjammer, the Goodwife, the Foregoer, the Onyxian Dreamer / Temple Waker, and (including some of my own which demonstrate the concept) the Seidkona of the Iron Bands, the Sybil of the Blinded Eye, and the Warden of the Hedge.

    None of the classes mentioned can even really be approximated in terms of abilities and (more importantly) flavor. All of them not only further define a character (as the Kensai does), but they all redefine a character. You may be a Fighter who is, more specifically, a Kensai, but no Etherjammer would consider themselves a Shadowcaster who happens to be an Etherjammer, and no Warden of the Hedge would consider himself just a more specific Paladin.

    In short, a PrC is strongest (in my mind, and apparently [judging by the votes and winners] in the mind of the community as a whole) when it is specific and completely redefines a character. That's what makes it Prestigious, as opposed to merely different.

    Anyway, that's my little rant. Other people's mileage may vary.

    Ingredients

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    Instructions

    Pour Djinn and tonic water into a glass filled with ice cubes. Stir well. Garnish with lime wedge. Serve.

  16. - Top - End - #196
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Likewise, strong flavor can sell a class even if the abilities are mechanically bland or uninspired, so strong flavor is clearly something (alongside balance) that we should be aspiring towards. I mean, like, my Children of the Mausoleum aren't as good as Druid 20. I daresay they're probably not even close. But a lot of folks fell in love with the flavor of it and I still get appreciative PMs to this day for causing that class to exist.

    And I'd totally be down for another Mano E Mano. Djinn and I actually finished a project together that way!


    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
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  17. - Top - End - #197
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Gareth View Post
    And I'd totally be down for another Mano E Mano. Djinn and I actually finished a project together that way!
    Quick! Let's do the Paradigm Project for the next Mano E Mano! That'll work, right?

    ...right?

    ...I'm not hearing a yes here, Gareth.


    Ingredients

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    Instructions

    Pour Djinn and tonic water into a glass filled with ice cubes. Stir well. Garnish with lime wedge. Serve.

  18. - Top - End - #198
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn_in_Tonic View Post
    Quick! Let's do the Paradigm Project for the next Mano E Mano! That'll work, right?
    Okay. You get to balance Sandman to T3.

    BWAHAHAHAHAHA, AHAHAHAHAHA!


    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
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  19. - Top - End - #199
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Gareth View Post
    Okay. You get to balance Sandman to T3.

    BWAHAHAHAHAHA, AHAHAHAHAHA!
    ...you horrible, horrible man.

    Wait. You never said what tier scale we're using. Hmm...

    Assuming the DM is Tier 1...

    ...damn. That doesn't work. The Sandman would STILL be something like T0.5, at least until the DM hit you with a book.

    Ingredients

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    Instructions

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  20. - Top - End - #200
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    By the way, Lord_Gareth?

    I'm waiting for your entry. I mean it. You've been absent and its time to make your presence known

    -X
    Chris Bennett
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  21. - Top - End - #201
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by ErrantX View Post
    By the way, Lord_Gareth?

    I'm waiting for your entry. I mean it. You've been absent and its time to make your presence known

    -X
    And I am waiting for replies on Libram of Battle.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
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  22. - Top - End - #202
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Poo. I knew I should have posted my class earlier. Now I have to change it, as Djinn has beat me to the guide bit....

    EDIT: He even has a lantern....oh well I'll post it anyways...
    Last edited by Spate; 2011-09-11 at 02:14 PM.

  23. - Top - End - #203
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Spate View Post
    Poo. I knew I should have posted my class earlier. Now I have to change it, as Djinn has beat me to the guide bit....
    Unless your class is specifically devoted to guiding spirits into the afterlife, and both thematically and mechanically almost identical to mine at that, it's more than fine to post it.

    I, for example, don't even READ the other classes before I start on mine, so any similarities are purely coincidental.
    Last edited by Djinn_in_Tonic; 2011-09-11 at 02:15 PM.

    Ingredients

    2oz Djinn
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    Instructions

    Pour Djinn and tonic water into a glass filled with ice cubes. Stir well. Garnish with lime wedge. Serve.

  24. - Top - End - #204
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Yeah, I wrote it entirely independently of you too. But I don't want someone to think I am copying anybody...

    My class basically revolves around the Soulspark Familiar soulmeld. I always thought it was cool to have a bunch of soulstuff floating around you, but the soulmeld is kind of lackluster. I figured it would be perfect for the idea that came to mind when I first saw the PrC contest prompt.

  25. - Top - End - #205
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Spate View Post
    Yeah, I wrote it entirely independently of you too. But I don't want someone to think I am copying anybody...
    Our contest, and this forum in general, tends to assume someone is innocent of stealing ideas unless it can be proven otherwise, and we tend to trust people if they say they didn't. So no worries! Hell...we even base work on each other's stuff all the time.

    That, and, quite frankly, our classes are almost nothing alike, so I'm not even sure why you were concerned.

    Ingredients

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    Instructions

    Pour Djinn and tonic water into a glass filled with ice cubes. Stir well. Garnish with lime wedge. Serve.

  26. - Top - End - #206
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    I'd also point out that my entry somewhat beats both on being a guiding light, though to be fair that's only because one of the base classes it's based on is almost exclusively that (and it does little to advance those abilities).

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Gareth View Post
    And I'd totally be down for another Mano E Mano. Djinn and I actually finished a project together that way!
    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn_in_Tonic View Post
    Quick! Let's do the Paradigm Project for the next Mano E Mano! That'll work, right?
    Well, I have been planning to try making a contest specifically for partner themes. If people are interested I could try starting it sometime soon.

    Owrtho
    Last edited by Owrtho; 2011-09-11 at 02:44 PM.

    My Homebrew
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    [class]Ozodrin: A class to play as an eldritch horror.
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  27. - Top - End - #207
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Owrtho View Post
    Well, I have been planning to try making a contest specifically for partner themes. If people are interested I could try starting it sometime soon.

    Owrtho
    I'd personally be very interested in such a thing. I know that, for this contest, I prefer to work alone, but a chance to produce things in tandem for a contest would be quite interesting to me.

    Ingredients

    2oz Djinn
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    Instructions

    Pour Djinn and tonic water into a glass filled with ice cubes. Stir well. Garnish with lime wedge. Serve.

  28. - Top - End - #208
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn_in_Tonic View Post
    I, for example, don't even READ the other classes before I start on mine, so any similarities are purely coincidental.
    When I first saw your class I nearly fell out of my chair from throwing my hands up so high due to the whole lantern theme that I also stuck to. xD

    You executed it differently though, and the fluff is definitely tons different. (Though still very much compatible, which would be interesting to see on a character.) I like the uniquity of needing to be a certain age category too.
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  29. - Top - End - #209
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    When I first saw your class I nearly fell out of my chair from throwing my hands up so high due to the whole lantern theme that I also stuck to. xD

    You executed it differently though, and the fluff is definitely tons different. (Though still very much compatible, which would be interesting to see on a character.) I like the uniquity of needing to be a certain age category too.
    *goes to look at your class*

    Wow. That's rather awesome. And yeah...a Raysailor of Sol Invictus seems like a rather interesting candidate to become a Twilight's Guide towards the end of his or her life. That would be an intriguing character...

    Ingredients

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    Instructions

    Pour Djinn and tonic water into a glass filled with ice cubes. Stir well. Garnish with lime wedge. Serve.

  30. - Top - End - #210
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    Default Re: GitP PrC Contest Chat Thread IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Gareth View Post
    And I am waiting for replies on Libram of Battle.
    Done. Now you have no excuse :P

    -X
    Chris Bennett
    Lead Designer (Path of War)
    Dreamscarred Press

    My credits:
    The Path of War: An OGL Tome of Battle for the Pathfinder game system, by Dreamscarred Press, available now!!
    My extended homebrew signature!


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