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    Default Energy Drain Monster Races?

    Are there any other monster races out there that can bestow negative levels, besides the Succubus and Vampire? With level adjustments of +12 and +8, respectively, neither one of these makes for a very appealing Player Race.

    I'm looking for a race that dishes out Negative Levels, with a reasonable level adjustment. So far, it seems like the Wight and Vampire are the lowest, both having a +8 adjustment. The biggest turnoff from either of these is the low BAB. 8 levels of Vampire, and absolutely NO bonus to attack? Seems a bit silly to me, but I'm probably missing something there.
    Last edited by TheRinni; 2011-07-18 at 11:00 AM.
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    Default Re: Energy Drain Monster Races?

    The wight is only a +4 level adjustment. At least in savage species.

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    Default Re: Energy Drain Monster Races?

    Quote Originally Posted by maximus25 View Post
    The wight is only a +4 level adjustment. At least in savage species.
    That's strange. The one in Libris Mortis is a +8. I'm worried that, since I'm making this character for a primarily 3.5 game, the DM will rule in favor of the 3.5 book over the 3.0 one.
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    Default Re: Energy Drain Monster Races?

    Yeah, the Wight is the lowest that I know of. Honestly, though, you'd be better off just going into the Soul Eater prestige class (BoVD), which adds an energy drain to your natural attacks at first level. An Elan, Warforged, Synad, Killoren, Duskling or Dragonwrought Kobold all easily qualify for it without any LA at all.

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    Default Re: Energy Drain Monster Races?

    Quote Originally Posted by Piggy Knowles View Post
    Yeah, the Wight is the lowest that I know of. Honestly, though, you'd be better off just going into the Soul Eater prestige class (BoVD), which adds an energy drain to your natural attacks at first level. An Elan, Warforged, Synad, Killoren, Duskling or Dragonwrought Kobold all easily qualify for it without any LA at all.
    I'm actually planning on taking that PrC, but I was hoping to have a Energy Draining race to compliment it. As a wraith, with even just one level in the Soul Eater class, I could deal 3 negative levels upon a successful hit. Combine that with the Life-Drinker axe, and it'll be 5 negative levels.
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    Default Re: Energy Drain Monster Races?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRinni View Post
    I'm actually planning on taking that PrC, but I was hoping to have a Energy Draining race to compliment it. As a wraith, with even just one level in the Soul Eater class, I could deal 3 negative levels upon a successful hit. Combine that with the Life-Drinker axe, and it'll be 5 negative levels.
    I don't have the books in front of me, but I thought that the Soul Eater PrC couldn't be undead. Could be wrong, though - I won't be able to check until I get home from work...

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    Default Re: Energy Drain Monster Races?

    Quote Originally Posted by maximus25 View Post
    The wight is only a +4 level adjustment. At least in savage species.
    Yeh, +4LA, +4 racial HD, for a total ECL of 8.

    Lowest I can think of is the fey'ri, of which the LA+3 version can use enervation 1/day (or 3/day with magic in the blood).
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    Default Re: Energy Drain Monster Races?

    Quote Originally Posted by Piggy Knowles View Post
    I don't have the books in front of me, but I thought that the Soul Eater PrC couldn't be undead. Could be wrong, though - I won't be able to check until I get home from work...
    Hrm. You are correct, the qualifications require it to be any Living Nonhumanoid. That's unfortunate. My DM was nice enough to allow me to play a "lesser succubus" of sorts. Essentially, I would only follow the Savage Species progression of Succubus to level 6. This is nice, but the progression doesn't receive Energy Drain until level 11, so it's useless for what I want it for.
    Lowest I can think of is the fey'ri, of which the LA+3 version can use enervation 1/day (or 3/day with magic in the blood).
    That sounds great; I'll have to look into it.
    Last edited by TheRinni; 2011-07-18 at 10:58 AM.
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    Default Re: Energy Drain Monster Races?

    Yeah, the non-undead bit does really limit the shenanigans you can get by stacking on level draining abilities. I always find that the trick with Soul Eater is to go with quantity over quality. Going with an Elan/Synad, Alter Self into something with a lot of natural attacks (Darktentacles from MMII is pretty good, although you can't go wrong with the Mind Flayer or even the Carrion Crawler from the core MM), and use Wraithstrike to hit them all at once. Rapidstrike and Improved Rapidstrike will give you iterative attacks on top of that, too, which can get pretty ridiculous when your natural attack routine is twelve tentacles and a bite.

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    Default Re: Energy Drain Monster Races?

    Quote Originally Posted by Runestar View Post
    Yeh, +4LA, +4 racial HD, for a total ECL of 8.

    Lowest I can think of is the fey'ri, of which the LA+3 version can use enervation 1/day (or 3/day with magic in the blood).
    Where in savage species does it say wight have 4 HD? Or is it in a 3.5 book since SS is 3.0?

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    Default Re: Energy Drain Monster Races?

    Quote Originally Posted by maximus25 View Post
    Where in savage species does it say wight have 4 HD? Or is it in a 3.5 book since SS is 3.0?
    Wights always have had 4hd. It's in their statblock in the monster manual.
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    Default Re: Energy Drain Monster Races?

    It takes a standard action to use the touch ability of soul eater so multiple natural attacks won't help.

    There IS a reason abilities are listed as (EX) (SU) and (SP). Those things DO matter.

    Now if the DM rules otherwise power to you. But lots of attacks won't help for level drain.

    That and last I checked wraithstrike was next attack...not every attack in that turn. Could be wrong, I'm away from book, but I doubt it.
    Last edited by Major; 2011-07-18 at 03:36 PM.

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    Default Re: Energy Drain Monster Races?

    Quote Originally Posted by Urpriest View Post
    Wights always have had 4hd. It's in their statblock in the monster manual.
    I should bring this to the attention of my DM, I should have 4 more d12 of hit die then I do.

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    Default Re: Energy Drain Monster Races?

    Quote Originally Posted by maximus25 View Post
    I should bring this to the attention of my DM, I should have 4 more d12 of hit die then I do.
    You should also be four levels higher. Those hit dice ain't free.

    Level Adjustment and Effective Character Level

    To determine the effective character level (ECL) of a monster character, add its level adjustment to its racial Hit Dice and character class levels.

    Use ECL instead of character level to determine how many experience points a monster character needs to reach its next level. Also use ECL to determine starting wealth for a monster character.

    Monster characters treat skills mentioned in their monster entry as class skills.

    If a monster has 1 Hit Die or less, or if it is a template creature, it must start the game with one or more class levels, like a regular character. If a monster has 2 or more Hit Dice, it can start with no class levels (though it can gain them later).

    Even if the creature is of a kind that normally advances by Hit Dice rather than class levels a PC can gain class levels rather than Hit Dice.

    Hit Dice

    The creature’s Hit Dice equal the number of class levels it has plus its racial Hit Dice. Additional Hit Dice gained from taking levels in a character class never affect a creature’s size like additional racial Hit Dice do.

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    Default Re: Energy Drain Monster Races?

    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    It takes a standard action to use the touch ability of soul eater so multiple natural attacks won't help.

    There IS a reason abilities are listed as (EX) (SU) and (SP). Those things DO matter.

    Now if the DM rules otherwise power to you. But lots of attacks won't help for level drain.
    A more... loose reading would suggest that 1:
    Supernatural Abilities (Su)
    Supernatural abilities are magical and go away in an antimagic field but are not subject to spell resistance, counterspells, or to being dispelled by dispel magic. Using a supernatural ability is a standard action unless noted otherwise
    And 2:
    "...the soul eater bestows 2 negative levels with a touch.
    "A touch." Granted, to many, this would be the equivalent of a touch attack. However, one could argue that this means any touch.
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    Default Re: Energy Drain Monster Races?

    There are weapon enhancements that allow a creature with energy drain to 'channel' that ability through weapon attacks.

    Necrotic Focus is in the MiC. Great synergy with crit fishing.

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    Default Re: Energy Drain Monster Races?

    Wraithstrike is definitely a full round.

    But yes, while the definition of Supernatural attacks says that they are a standard action unless otherwise noted, the description of the Soul Eater's energy drain says that the touch of a Soul Eater bestows negative levels. It does NOT say that a touch attack is required, just that a "touch" does. The fact that the class is only available to creatures with natural weapons reinforces that.

    And while I know that fluff doesn't necessarily mean anything, it also mentions in the class description that they are often confused with vampires, who have a similar energy drain ability:

    Energy Drain (Su)
    Living creatures hit by a vampire’s slam attack (or any other natural weapon the vampire might possess) gain two negative levels.
    Of course, while the Vampire explicitly caps its Energy Drain at one per round, there's no such cap in the Soul Eater description.

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    Default Re: Energy Drain Monster Races?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    You should also be four levels higher. Those hit dice ain't free.
    I know, he made the same mistake with another character, who made an illithid but didn't know the hit die made its way into ECL. He has a cap of 7 on ECL, the level adjustment for mind flayer. After he found out he made a mistake he allowed the character anyway because it was already in the game.

    I'm sure he'll do the same for me.

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    Default Re: Energy Drain Monster Races?

    Quote Originally Posted by maximus25 View Post
    I should bring this to the attention of my DM, I should have 4 more d12 of hit die then I do.
    Your DM and yourself should have been aware of this from the start, because it's one of the first things you look up when you decide to play a monster character. I keep seeing this attitude crop up, and frankly, it pisses me off. It pisses me off so much, that this post is going to serve as the opening quote of a handbook that I will start this evening, explaining everything people forget to look up when playing/using/modifying/transforming into monsters. That much.
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    Default Re: Energy Drain Monster Races?

    Quote Originally Posted by Urpriest View Post
    Your DM and yourself should have been aware of this from the start, because it's one of the first things you look up when you decide to play a monster character. I keep seeing this attitude crop up, and frankly, it pisses me off. It pisses me off so much, that this post is going to serve as the opening quote of a handbook that I will start this evening, explaining everything people forget to look up when playing/using/modifying/transforming into monsters. That much.
    Glad I was here to help in a new handbook.

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    Default Re: Energy Drain Monster Races?

    Quote Originally Posted by Major View Post
    It takes a standard action to use the touch ability of soul eater so multiple natural attacks won't help.

    There IS a reason abilities are listed as (EX) (SU) and (SP). Those things DO matter.

    Now if the DM rules otherwise power to you. But lots of attacks won't help for level drain.

    That and last I checked wraithstrike was next attack...not every attack in that turn. Could be wrong, I'm away from book, but I doubt it.
    By that logic, a paladin cannot combine smite with a full attack, which would make it nigh useless past lv6+, especially if he cant use it on a charge as well.
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    Default Re: Energy Drain Monster Races?

    Quote Originally Posted by Runestar View Post
    By that logic, a paladin cannot combine smite with a full attack, which would make it nigh useless past lv6+, especially if he cant use it on a charge as well.
    Smite Evil specifies an action (a normal melee attack). "A touch" is not an action, but it is a range.
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    Default Re: Energy Drain Monster Races?

    Quote Originally Posted by Runestar View Post
    By that logic, a paladin cannot combine smite with a full attack, which would make it nigh useless past lv6+, especially if he cant use it on a charge as well.
    By logic of "the rules say X"? Oh, sorry. Nevermind.

    That and Paladin specifics...
    Last edited by Major; 2011-07-18 at 08:24 PM.

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