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  1. - Top - End - #181
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Urpriest's Monstrous Monster Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombimode View Post
    MM4 come with a new style of stat block (and it's continued in Magic of Incarnum). Now, thats hardly the first time a new stat block style was introduced and also not the last time.

    But the MM4 stat block seems to invent a new way of classifying special abilities. Normally a creatures abilities are either Special Attacks or Special Qualities (correct me if I'm wrong). This is an important distinction for effects like Alternate Form and its spell derivatives.

    On the MM4 stat block, no "Special Attacks" line is found. Instead, we see "Attack Options" and "Special Actions". Is this only an aesthetic distinction and everything written under those two make up the creatures Special Attacks?


    At any rate, its confusing to see new terminology that doesn't really fit into the established monster rules.
    That is annoying. DMG II style statblocks are great for NPCs in an adventure, but they're lousy for first presentations of new mechanics. However it's not all that tricky to adjudicate. The statblocks still have an SQ section, so any special ability that's not an SQ is clearly a Special Attack. Attack Options and Special Actions is just for showing what can modify attacks versus what takes its own standard actions.
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  2. - Top - End - #182
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    PaladinGuy

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    eek Re: Urpriest's Monstrous Monster Handbook

    Wow. That was a really, really good guide that cleared up so many things for me.

    However, since I'm apparently a complete noob and quite possibly mentally challenged, I'm not sure I'm getting everything.

    I found this guide while trying to figure out how to turn an Animal into a playable race, and what modifiers, traits and features and so on would apply.

    Is there any chance you could take an Animal or a Monster (or anything, for that matter) and step-by-step go through how to make it into a playable race, explaining the thought process and calculation(s) as you go?

    What I'm trying to do myself is to make a Neutral Good Squirrel Rogue to be used as a Cohort, applying either the Celestial Creature or Half-Celestial Template. Let's ignore that players cannot be Animals due to lower than 3 Intelligence (since it's a player character anyway, Intelligence will get over 3) and whether or not you can apply the Half-Celestial Template; those things are irrelevant.

    For reference, here's the stats for a Squirrel, originally intended for use as a Familiar, that I was intending to use:
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    Squirrel: CR -; Diminutive Animal; HD žd8; hp 1; Init +3 (Dex);
    Spd 10 ft., climb 15ft; AC 17 (+4 Size, +3 Dex); Atk none; SQ scent;
    Face 1 ft. by 1 ft.; Reach 0ft; SV Fort +2, Ref +5, Will +1;
    Str 2, Dex 16, Con 11, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 4.
    Skills: Climb +15, Hide +22, Move Silently +11, Listen +9. Squirrels gain a +4 racial bonus to Climb, Hide and Move Silently checks.

    This, however, resulted in another question. When applying Templates, when a Template gives you a Special Quality or Ability dependant on Hit Dice, how is that calculated for a player character? Would that be based on the chosen class, then...? Or Type? Because if it's the Type, it would seem odd, since Outsiders have d8, but if Outsiders always have d8, how would that interact with a Player Character with Class Levels?

    Damn, I'm more confused than I thought.

    I'm going to try to re-read everything again.
    Last edited by Luckmann; 2013-09-17 at 01:11 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #183
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    Cieyrin's Avatar

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    Default Re: Urpriest's Monstrous Monster Handbook

    Templates are generally based off of Racial Hit Dice, not class. As for your Squirrel, it meets the type criteria just fine, it just doesn't natively have the Intelligence to be Half-Celestial. Not that that's a big deal, Awakened Squirrels are quite capable of consenting to be uplifted further.
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  4. - Top - End - #184
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    BarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Urpriest's Monstrous Monster Handbook

    Hello,

    This is a very impressive work and i'm glad i read it entirely.
    It is awesomely interesting.
    Thanks for your hard work vulgarizing this technicality.

    Cheers :)

  5. - Top - End - #185
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    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Urpriest's Monstrous Monster Handbook

    I'm having a real bad time understanding monsters' sheets.
    Let's talk about the Nightwalker in the MM. It's a huge 21HD undead with 38 strength. Its BAB is +10 but its Grapple is +34. Its Attack and Full Attack are Slam +24 and two Slams +24, respectively, both with a +16 flat damage.
    I really don't understand how this is possible. In my calculations, Its attack rolls should be 10BAB + 14Str -2Size = +22 with a flat damage of +14, which is completely different from what is written in the MM and in the SRD.
    So why its attacks are +24 slam attacks with +16 flat damage? And why its grapple bonus is +34? Where are those numbers coming from? None of its feats is enhancing its attack rolls or damage so I'm confusing...

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  6. - Top - End - #186
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Urpriest's Monstrous Monster Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by .Zero View Post
    I'm having a real bad time understanding monsters' sheets.
    Let's talk about the Nightwalker in the MM. It's a huge 21HD undead with 38 strength. Its BAB is +10 but its Grapple is +34. Its Attack and Full Attack are Slam +24 and two Slams +24, respectively, both with a +16 flat damage.
    I really don't understand how this is possible. In my calculations, Its attack rolls should be 10BAB + 14Str -2Size = +22 with a flat damage of +14, which is completely different from what is written in the MM and in the SRD.
    So why its attacks are +24 slam attacks with +16 flat damage? And why its grapple bonus is +34? Where are those numbers coming from? None of its feats is enhancing its attack rolls or damage so I'm confusing...

    Thank you and sorry for being a necromancer.
    All Nightshades benefit from their own Desecrating Aura ability, giving them +2 to attack and damage rolls; this bonus is included in the stat block. The ability is listed at the top of the SRD entry, since it's common to all Nightshades.

    I'm not sure why the Grapple mod is +34 instead of +32; they may have (incorrectly) applied the Desecrating Aura bonus to it as well?

  7. - Top - End - #187
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    Default Re: Urpriest's Monstrous Monster Handbook

    Being Huge gives you a +8 to grapple, and you don't deal with the -2 for being huge for grappling, so it's BAB+Size mod+Str, so that should be 10+8+14= 32.
    The desecration aura gives it a +2 as well, for a total of 34.
    Last edited by TrueJordan; 2014-04-10 at 10:31 PM.

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  8. - Top - End - #188
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Urpriest's Monstrous Monster Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by TrueJordan View Post
    Being Huge gives you a +8 to grapple, and you don't deal with the -2 for being huge for grappling, so it's BAB+Size mod+Str, so that should be 10+8+14= 32.
    The desecration aura gives it a +2 as well, for a total of 34.
    Since a grapple check isn't an attack roll (it's "like an attack roll" according to the rules, but they then list exactly what modifiers apply to grapple checks, which doesn't include "other bonuses to attack rolls"), I don't believe the desecration aura should apply. I do suspect that's the source of the +2, though; I just think the stat block is wrong.

  9. - Top - End - #189
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    Default Re: Urpriest's Monstrous Monster Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by A_S View Post
    Since a grapple check isn't an attack roll (it's "like an attack roll" according to the rules, but they then list exactly what modifiers apply to grapple checks, which doesn't include "other bonuses to attack rolls"), I don't believe the desecration aura should apply. I do suspect that's the source of the +2, though; I just think the stat block is wrong.
    The list of modifiers is not exhaustive, since the list of modifiers to attack rolls in the definition of same is similarly limited.
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  10. - Top - End - #190
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Urpriest's Monstrous Monster Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by TuggyNE View Post
    The list of modifiers is not exhaustive, since the list of modifiers to attack rolls in the definition of same is similarly limited.

    I'm not sure the statblock is right, but neither am I sure it's wrong.
    Hm, that is goofy. So it comes down to whether "like an attack roll" means it's enough "like" an attack roll that it inherits modifiers that affect attack rolls.

    This just in: D&D 3.5 rules sometimes unclear.

  11. - Top - End - #191
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    d20 Re: Urpriest's Monstrous Monster Handbook

    k i have created a monster not everything is on here but need to ask is there anyway to make a monster from scratch and make them into a race of their own?
    also tell me if u want a copy of the monster that i made up

  12. - Top - End - #192
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Urpriest's Monstrous Monster Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyome View Post
    k i have created a monster not everything is on here but need to ask is there anyway to make a monster from scratch and make them into a race of their own?
    also tell me if u want a copy of the monster that i made up
    The playground is going to need some more info to help you out. Since you seem to be asking for help with a homebrew monster, not asking questions about Urpriest's guide per se, I recommend making a new thread to ask for help.

    You should include what you have so far, and a bit more about what exactly you want to do with it (is it for a game you're DMing? Or do you want to turn it into a playable race for a character you want to play?).
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  13. - Top - End - #193
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    DwarfFighterGuy

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    Default Re: Urpriest's Monstrous Monster Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    Templates are generally based off of Racial Hit Dice, not class. As for your Squirrel, it meets the type criteria just fine, it just doesn't natively have the Intelligence to be Half-Celestial. Not that that's a big deal, Awakened Squirrels are quite capable of consenting to be uplifted further.
    ok, so i am trying to build my animal companion (A Brown bear named Thunder) into my next PC when/if my character were to die (my PC is a dwarf druid, its fun) but i cannot figure out what my level adjustment would be. i have a "last will and testament" that if Viet (the dwarf) were to die another druid NPC would cast awaken upon Thunder. thereby making him an awakened Brown Bear. he would have 6 RHD and +2 HD for being awakened, a normal CR for a Brown Bear is 4.....and i have no idea how to calculate that into either LA or ECL........help plz!

  14. - Top - End - #194
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    Default Re: Urpriest's Monstrous Monster Handbook

    Brown Bear has LA -. Awaken does nothing to change LA so it stays - (unsuitable for a player character). That being said Savage Species has rules for applying level adjustment to LA -, but be careful as they almost always result in inflated LA.

  15. - Top - End - #195
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    Default Re: Urpriest's Monstrous Monster Handbook

    All right, one more question for the brains trust: what is the "level" of a monster when looking at making one a cohort by the Leadership feat?

    I have a horrible feeling it's Racial HD plus level adjustment, so please give me a dissenting view :D

    For full disclosure, it's because a Midgard Dwarf would be an awesome cohort for a Cleric/Runecaster, but if the dwarf's "level" for cohort is 12th, it's only going to be available for 14th level characters.

  16. - Top - End - #196
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    Default Re: Urpriest's Monstrous Monster Handbook

    You're correct, but some races have level adjustments that only apply to cohorts (which is noted in parentheses after the LA).

    Cohorts are generally built like PCs. RHD + class HD + LA = ECL, and the ECL is what you look for.

  17. - Top - End - #197
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Urpriest's Monstrous Monster Handbook

    Cheers, thanks for that. That said, a Midgard Dwarf is a lovely capstone present for a Runecaster anyway since you're generally going to get permanent runes around character level 13-14. Carry on...

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