LGBTAitp - Part Fifteen

[Castaras]

So... I just found out that Stephen Fry is openly gay. Does this mean I wasn't imagining subtext (both in universe and meta) between him and Hugh Laurie?

...This is news? On QI, there'd nearly always be jokes regarding Fry's sexuality. Plus the sexuality of anyone else who popped in.

[Petrocorus]

[Expletive], dude, I didn't get the memo that museums were "gay", but that must explain a very subjective observation that homophobes are complete idiots.

They are basically saying: "men who go to museum are gay" i.e. "educated men are gay".
So they are actually saying: "real straight men are uneducated, and we are real straight so we are uneducated and proud to be."

If i understand well, so, this homophobes are pleading people to consider them as moron. So be it.

Well, there is this thing called 'corrective rape' in South Africa.

Please tell me you're kidding!
Have you got any link?

Isn't there a phenomenon called lesbian invisibility? Or was that bi-invisibility? I read something called 'the four most homophobic comics ever made' and there were no lesbians. No bisexuals. Just card-carrying gays.

There are even tropes about that.

[Asta Kask]

I've also met some bisexuals who believed that everyone was really bisexual... implying that I, and all other straight men - and all lesbians - just hadn't met the right man... and the same for gay men, straight women and the right woman.

What's that all about?

(I have some theories but I'd like to hear yours first)

Please tell me you're kidding!
Have you got any link?

Wikipedia.

There are more links there.

[Qaera]

...This is news? On QI, there'd nearly always be jokes regarding Fry's sexuality. Plus the sexuality of anyone else who popped in.

Best part was the two guys that looked alike made a joke about making out, then just went at each other.

I've also met some bisexuals who believed that everyone was really bisexual... implying that I, and all other straight men - and all lesbians - just hadn't met the right man... and the same for gay men, straight women and the right woman.

What's that all about?

(I have some theories but I'd like to hear yours first)

That's Freudian Psychology 101, basically. So it actually is, y'know, a theory~

~ ♅

[turkishproverb]

That's Freudian Psychology 101, basically. So it actually is, y'know, a theory~

~ ♅

Well, there are also studies that indicate a larger body is attracted to both genders than admits it.

[Petrocorus]

Wikipedia.

There are more links there.

I can't see how a rape can be corrective. This is moronic to so many levels i cannot even account them.

The guys believe the women will like to be rape?!?


Even more in the case of Eudy Simelane, how can anything that end with the person being killed be "corrective".

[Mono Vertigo]

Well, it's both a case of "how dare they be lesbians! My masculinity is threatened by their very existence because they won't fall for me! I'll punish them!" and "Maybe they don't like men because they've never have enjoyable sex with one, so I'm gonna give them good sex, whether they like it or not!".
Which is absolutely stupid AND violent.

In terms of sexuality, I've tried to come up with a good metaphor involving food. One sort of food (let's say cake) is homosexuality, another (let's say turkey) is heterosexuality, and none of them are inherently wrong. Some people only like cake, some eat of both in varying proportions (and are bisexual), some only pretend to eat turkey in public whereas they really long for cake, some just bypass food altogether (asexuals - no, the metaphor isn't perfect, or it wouldn't imply us asexuals are starving), and there are many other ways to deal with cake and turkey.
Sometimes, especially when you've never tasted of the other food, you decide to experiment and eat turkey/cake. You eat it the way you want it, and afterwards, you find out if you like it or not, or if you'd like spicing it up with new ingredients.
Sometimes, you're not hungry, but your SO has just baked cake/turkey and would really like it if you ate some with it. You may compromise and accept, and the both of you have an enjoyable lunch with consideration for each other, and all is fine, once again.
But sometimes, your SO, an acquaintance, or a complete stranger comes up to you with turkey/cake and wants you to eat it. You refuse, either because you don't like cake, aren't hungry, or plain don't want to have lunch with that person, or anything, but you shouldn't have to justify yourself. They don't care, and tie you up and shove cake/turkey down your throat. It doesn't matter if said cake/turkey is the best you've ever eaten, this is equivalent to rape, and it may even physically injure you in the process.
Corrective rape? That's the equivalent of shoving turkey down your throat with a shovel in order to even make you forget you ever liked cake in the first place. Stupid, isn't it? And yet, for some reason, these guys consider it a perfectly reasonable idea.

Gosh, I wrote a wall of text again. I should stop doing that.

[Petrocorus]

And yet, for some reason, these guys consider it a perfectly reasonable idea.

This part is totally beyond my understanding.

Seriously, i cannot picture the mental process that lead them to think: "if i rape her, she will start liking men."

And i'm pretty sure it involves something like "if i rape her, she will like it."

This is beyond the degree of moronicity i can understand.

BTW, i used the word moronicity, yet i still write English better than commissioner Brent Rinehart.

[turkishproverb]

Eh, you use English better than most of the American south does.

[Heliomance]

Argle.

There's an MTF I know, that I've known since before she started to transition. And so I've watched her getting more and more feminine, and gradually prettier. And I saw her today after she'd just got a new hairstyle, and something in my brain just went "argleblargepreeeeeeetty"

And I know that us together is such a bad idea - quite apart from my penis aversion, our personalities would not mesh well. But she is smoking hot now.

Just wanted to vent.

[Qaera]

Hey!
I represent that statement!
Seriously though, it's bad.

~ ♅

[Mono Vertigo]

@Petro: For some reason that I don't get, I find your inability to logically process that line of thought heartwarming.
No, it's not sarcastic, take that as a compliment. Someone who hasn't learnt to partially process pseudo-logic like I, sadly, did.
Never study sociology or psychology, you're gonna ruin all that. I know what I'm talking about.

[Worlok]

BTW, i used the word moronicity, yet i still write English better than commissioner Brent Rinehart.

Excuse my silliness, but am I the only one who read that article and went "Hoo boy, 'Alternate Deathstyle' is a great name for a rock band!"?

[cycoris]

Well, there is this thing called 'corrective rape' in South Africa.

Isn't there a phenomenon called lesbian invisibility? Or was that bi-invisibility? I read something called 'the four most homophobic comics ever made' and there were no lesbians. No bisexuals. Just card-carrying gays.

Not just in South Africa, I've been threatened with it in the good ole US of A. And if there are threats of it, it probably happens here too. Hate to burst the little bubble, but yeah.

And it's bi invisibility. I think the lack of lesbians may be due more to misogyny than anything else. If default person=male, then default gay person=gay male. *shrug*

[Gardener]

Excuse my silliness, but am I the only one who read that article and went "Hoo boy, 'Alternate Deathstyle' is a great name for a rock band!"?

It is an awesome band name. Not sure if it should be rock or metal, really.

Though the massively phobic reaction to saliva in that one was pretty funny too.

Frankly, I'm surprised Jack Chick never rated a mention. That honestly seemed more "amazingly stupid" than "amazingly homophobic"...

[DeadManSleeping]

Excuse my silliness, but am I the only one who read that article and went "Hoo boy, 'Alternate Deathstyle' is a great name for a rock band!"?

Village People + Metal (or some other hardcore genre) = Alternative Deathstyle

[Murdim]

This part is totally beyond my understanding.

Seriously, i cannot picture the mental process that lead them to think: "if i rape her, she will start liking men."

And i'm pretty sure it involves something like "if i rape her, she will like it."

This is beyond the degree of moronicity i can understand.

You do not want to know the most popular "cure" for AIDS in South Africa.

Well, there are also studies that indicate a larger body is attracted to both genders than admits it.

Actually, if I remember correctly, it's more that an intelligently worded question will show a (much) greater proportion of people admitting to be attracted to both sexes than a blanket "Straight, gay, bi, asexual, tick the right answer". There are many reasons for this, some good, some less so. People are complicated that way.

Village People + Metal (or some other hardcore genre) = Alternative Deathstyle

Sounds to me more like a name for an alternative metal band, really. Metal Rock Bands love to have some kind of faux topicality in their names, regardless of whether they're concerned at all about it.

[Pika...]

Not just in South Africa, I've been threatened with it in the good ole US of A. And if there are threats of it, it probably happens here too. Hate to burst the little bubble, but yeah.

And it's bi invisibility. I think the lack of lesbians may be due more to misogyny than anything else. If default person=male, then default gay person=gay male. *shrug*

What the hell?

Did you call the police? They should be in jail!

[Petrocorus]

Excuse my silliness, but am I the only one who read that article and went "Hoo boy, 'Alternate Deathstyle' is a great name for a rock band!"?

One internet for you, good ootser.

@Petro: For some reason that I don't get, I find your inability to logically process that line of thought heartwarming.
No, it's not sarcastic, take that as a compliment.

Well, thank you for the compliment.

Someone who hasn't learnt to partially process pseudo-logic like I, sadly, did.

I didn't really understand this sentence until i quoted and saw:

Never study sociology or psychology, you're gonna ruin all that. I know what I'm talking about.

I am not sure if i understand this, i'm not sure if this is not better not to understand this.

I studied physic and technology, maybe this explain that. Don't know;

Argle.

There's an MTF I know, that I've known since before she started to transition. And so I've watched her getting more and more feminine, and gradually prettier. And I saw her today after she'd just got a new hairstyle, and something in my brain just went "argleblargepreeeeeeetty"

You know, this is this kind of pretty MtF who have some of us "become" bisexual. or more exactly, find out they were bisexual.


PS: I always miss the white letters. I don't like this.

[Mono Vertigo]

Well, studying the way people work, either individually or as a group, tends to make you a cynic.
Or maybe it's just me.
And sorry for the white text.

[Thufir]

I can't see how a rape can be corrective. This is moronic to so many levels i cannot even account them.

It's like the "They haven't had a real man" thing. Just a somewhat more aggressive (And reprehensible) version thereof.

[DeadManSleeping]

I can't imagine how one could understand how people work and NOT be cynical. Even without extrapolation, the mere statistics are disgustingly horrifying.

[Petrocorus]

And sorry for the white text.

Don't be sorry, wasn't a critic, just some kind of complain.

It's like the "They haven't had a real man" thing. Just a somewhat more aggressive (And reprehensible) version thereof.

AFAIK, women don't enjoy to be raped, whether this is by a "real" men or not.
But this kind of thought maybe do not reach the mind of this people.
Or maybe there is some kind of cultural thing like "women don't have real desire/ are naturally/biblically/whateverally bound to desire men/ are psychologically ill if they don't want men."

What is a "real" man anyway. We could debate indefinitely about this, and even debate indefinitely about the relevance of such a debate.

I must confess that i use this line sometimes, mostly to say that real men don't play football. But i perfectly know how flawed and stupid this is when i say it.

[Worlok]

One internet for you, good ootser.

I actually won an internet? This. Is. AWESOME!

Village People + Metal (or some other hardcore genre) = Alternative Deathstyle

It is an awesome band name. Not sure if it should be rock or metal, really.

Though the massively phobic reaction to saliva in that one was pretty funny too.

Frankly, I'm surprised Jack Chick never rated a mention. That honestly seemed more "amazingly stupid" than "amazingly homophobic"...

On the other hand, I now have this inexplicable image of a bunch of hardcore death-metalers doing YMCA in formation while Jack Chick rolls around in the background, yelling "GET THE SPIT OFF, IT BURNS!!!"... Really, folks, this internet is for us all to share.

[Lix Lorn]

Argle.

There's an MTF I know, that I've known since before she started to transition. And so I've watched her getting more and more feminine, and gradually prettier. And I saw her today after she'd just got a new hairstyle, and something in my brain just went "argleblargepreeeeeeetty"

And I know that us together is such a bad idea - quite apart from my penis aversion, our personalities would not mesh well. But she is smoking hot now.

Just wanted to vent.

...I really shouldn't, but my response was somewhere between 'dawwww' and giggling at you. But, um, I feel bad for you and hope you find someone pretty you do mesh with?

Excuse my silliness, but am I the only one who read that article and went "Hoo boy, 'Alternate Deathstyle' is a great name for a rock band!"?

...awesome.

[Gardener]

As far as I can tell, it's the cultural thing, along with a percieved insult to their masculinity - "How dare that woman not want to have sex with me! I'm going to do it anyway!", with lesbianism being relevant mostly in that it means she doesn't want to have sex with men. I can't really claim to understand it, though - a lot of these sorts of places are really superstitious, so it could be something apparently unrelated that we'd never think of from the outside looking in.

[Mono Vertigo]

AFAIK, women don't enjoy to be raped, whether this is by a "real" men or not.
But this kind of thought maybe do not reach the mind of this people.

Well, yeah, that's another issue: everyone doesn't seem to have the same definition of rape, or think it is "deserved" in some circumstances. If she doesn't try and defend herself, it's not rape, right? (Hint: maybe that's because she's too afraid/shocked to try, you morons?) If she's too sleepy/drugged to struggle, that's not a clear "no", therefore it's not rape, isn't it? If she has slept with many other people recently, she must like sex, therefore she's little better than a prostitute, therefore she had it coming, right? She was wearing a miniskirt and got drunk drunk a party, totally means she wanted to have sex, isn't it? There's no such thing as marital rape, after all, if a woman marries a man, she wants to make love with him and do her duty if she dares not feeling like doing it, right? And many, many more misconceptions that don't help anybody.
Yes, these opinions are more or less widespread. Which can leads to the indirect logic of "she totally asked for it, therefore it's not rape, and she better have enjoyed it, too".
On a related topic, if a man ever gets raped (which can't possibly happen because men are strong unlike those silly wimminz) and has an erection during the deed, it's not rape either, because he clearly enjoyed it. (NB: any cisman in their right mind could give you tons of situation where they had erections when not particularly aroused or happy. But again, we're not exactly talking about people in their right mind right now.)
Okay, now I'm gonna wash my hands with soap. I'm feeling so dirty having typed all that trying to keep a straight face.

[Worlok]

NB: any cisman in their right mind could give you tons of situation where they had erections when not particularly aroused or happy. But again, we're not exactly talking about people in their right mind right now.

Word to that. Brofist!

...awesome.

Isn't it totally, though?

[rayne_dragon]

Well, yeah, that's another issue: everyone doesn't seem to have the same definition of rape, or think it is "deserved" in some circumstances. If she doesn't try and defend herself, it's not rape, right? (Hint: maybe that's because she's too afraid/shocked to try, you morons?) If she's too sleepy/drugged to struggle, that's not a clear "no", therefore it's not rape, isn't it? If she has slept with many other people recently, she must like sex, therefore she's little better than a prostitute, therefore she had it coming, right? She was wearing a miniskirt and got drunk drunk a party, totally means she wanted to have sex, isn't it? There's no such thing as marital rape, after all, if a woman marries a man, she wants to make love with him and do her duty if she dares not feeling like doing it, right? And many, many more misconceptions that don't help anybody.
Yes, these opinions are more or less widespread. Which can leads to the indirect logic of "she totally asked for it, therefore it's not rape, and she better have enjoyed it, too".
On a related topic, if a man ever gets raped (which can't possibly happen because men are strong unlike those silly wimminz) and has an erection during the deed, it's not rape either, because he clearly enjoyed it. (NB: any cisman in their right mind could give you tons of situation where they had erections when not particularly aroused or happy. But again, we're not exactly talking about people in their right mind right now.)
Okay, now I'm gonna wash my hands with soap. I'm feeling so dirty having typed all that trying to keep a straight face.

The world is such a stupid place.

[Anethiel]

This also came up in the last thread or so, but it's still nice (not really) to remember the peaks of stupidity that mankind can reach:

"When someone is a lesbian, it's like saying to us men that we are not good enough," Thulani Bhengu, 35, tells the BBC.

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