No love for Roy?

[kanachi]

Hiya guys I know this will probably bring about a bit of a turbulent thread, so I apologise for this in advance, but I’ve noticed over a long time that many people really don’t seem to like Roy.

I mean sure he’s a bit cocky in a fight (no more so than Elan since he got his PRC, though I grant that’s different) and arrogant (no more so than V) but I’ve also read a lot of posts by people who say that he talks down to people and while this goes hand in hand with arrogance I do think it’s a bit of an unfair badge to pin on him.

Sure the guy does his best to slap people out of their general buffoonery (which he is regularly surrounded with) but who wouldn’t if forced to lead the order of the stick on a mission TO SAVE CREATION ITSELF. Ask yourself how you would actually treat the members of the order if you were working with them on such a quest?

Elan is annoying, funny for us readers for sure, but for a leader of a band of heroes… come on who would not want to slap this guy about? None the less Roy is always the big brother figure for him and is actually quite supportive of him in many situations.

Belkar is borderline useless at major parts of the role which he was hired for (tracking being a prime example), psychotic and can only be controlled in the most tenuous of ways. Again you would talk down to this guy, in fact how many people would have allowed him to live this far given his actions? Belkar deserves everything Roy says to him and more.

Hayley presents herself from the start in a way which would cause a leader to be worried about her motives (prissy, deceiving, a bit self absorbed and greedy). However when she grows beyond this and becomes more “team player” Roy is supportive of her, giving her a lot of trust and respect. For example he praises her for her leadership during his absence when she is expressing doubt in herself and the actions she has taken.

V and Durkon both have a good deal of his respect but when they do things that are counter the group he does talk to them. This is logical leadership.

I guess what I’m saying here is that Roy needs to play the straight man because no one else will. He also suffers from William Turner style fan apathy because of this, if Will Turner did not exist Jack Sparrow would just be some idiot whose antics would A) piss you off or B) cause you to regard the whole thing in the same vain as a Ace Venturer film. Just look at the last Pirate’s of the Caribbean film for evidence of this!

Roy is a man working with the tools he is given (including himself) and though far from perfect I don’t think the fans give him quite the love he deserves. I actually feel quite sorry for the guy right now as he’s fast becoming the most mechanically useless member of the party (the fate of all fighters at higher levels) and will soon have to address that humbling fact… maybe he is not the man to finish this quest, maybe he is best stepping aside and letting those with powers beyond his own take over.

What do you guys think about this? And how would you act if you were in Roy’s position?

[theinsulabot]

eh, roy is actually easily my favorite character. but since he tends to belittle and insult the people around him, since he is just as egotistical about his intelligence as V is, it just takes a different form, I always feel that the roy hate tends to emerge when roy makes somebody else's favorite person look bad. he does that a lot with his snarky one liners. I remember when roy gave miko his treasure type 0 remark the forums went nuts with furious miko fans denouncing him for being insulting and derogatory and for beating her up after the attack on the old guy.

[sims796]

The issues I have with Roy is that he acts like he'l flawless, or otherwise just better on a higher degree. I don't hate the guy, but I am enjoying this beatdown.

I hated that Miko arc, but not because of the way Miko was (her flaws were also on full display), but because the way Roy tends to insult his "friends", belittling them as if he's that much better, as if he can do it all on his own. He may be the glue that holds this team together, but I'd hate to see how far he can get without the group.

[ChowGuy]

I mean sure he’s a bit cocky in a fight (no more so than Elan since he got his PRC, though I grant that’s different) and arrogant (no more so than V) but I’ve also read a lot of posts by people who say that he talks down to people and while this goes hand in hand with arrogance I do think it’s a bit of an unfair badge to pin on him.

It's not just his own party members he's that way with. He treats everyone with a shade of contempt. He's not as bad as Nale, but I mean, if even Thog calls him "Talky Man" and points out how it's not something that works to his advantage you have to wonder.

I think it's a less then endearing trait he inherited from his father, while je go his mother's more sunny outlook on life. Just goes to show yhough that in the Order, no one is perfect, so I don't think thaere's a real problem with it.

[Kibble Sage]

Well, Roy's manner never really bothered me that much. I suppose this indicates how obnoxious the people I deal with in real life are. Mostly, I just hope that he'll learn his lesson and actually take some steps to make himself more effective in the future, such as a prestige class.

[Holy_Knight]

I remember when roy gave miko his treasure type 0 remark the forums went nuts with furious miko fans denouncing him for being insulting and derogatory and for beating her up after the attack on the old guy.

I think it had more to do with the fact that that remark showed a distinct lack of class on his part. He wasn't wrong to stop Miko there, but belittling her like he did made him come off as a petty jerk instead of heroic.

(I say this as someone who likes Roy in general, aside from some specific moments like the above and abandoning Elan to the bandits.)

[137beth]

I think people just hate Roy because he is the most sensible and normal character in a party of PCs who are at least somewhat crazy. A lot of people simply like a crazy character, and when Roy tries to calm/talk sense into their favorite character, they get fanboy rage. In other words:
This is a forum. There is always someone who has irrational reasons for hating just about anything.

[Cizak]

I've actually always liked Roy. I sometimes feel he tells characters exactly what I want to tell them. So I guess I'm just like Roy Good thing I don't usually hang out with more than 1-3 people.

[Snails]

I do not see the arrogance.

He is respectful enough of competent people who are not trying to screw him or others over. When has Roy ever talked down to a person who did not have that and more coming to them in spades? Should he talky talky more nice to a vicious murderer like Thog?

The main reason that Roy is in that arena is Roy decided to trust Elan to play out his relationship to Tarquin. Roy decided to rely on his teammates while they are playing to their strengths. Isn't that exactly the kind of mellowing out the critics of Roy are asking for?

[MlleRouge]

Roy is one of my favorites, easily ^^

He has a bunch of my favorite lines, and his speech to Xykon during the Battle for Azure City is one of my favorite scenes in the comic. He's always stuck out to me because he tries so hard to be responsible and level-headed, even though he's surrounded by people who are obviously less competent than himself.

So yeah, I agree that he has an important role to fill in the party, personally and story-wise if not mechanically. As for Roy hate, I'm not sure how I feel. I've seen it here and there, but never really thought about it being wide spread. I'm awfully surprised at the reactions to this current beat-down, though. I feel rather bad for him.

And yeah...I was one of the ones who cheered every time he belittled Miko.

[Stille_Nacht]

? i never real saw him as arrogant, any comments he may have made might have been a bit snarky i guess.

[Pont]

Roy is one of my favorites, easily ^^

He has a bunch of my favorite lines, and his speech to Xykon during the Battle for Azure City is one of my favorite scenes in the comic. He's always stuck out to me because he tries so hard to be responsible and level-headed, even though he's surrounded by people who are obviously less competent than himself.

So yeah, I agree that he has an important role to fill in the party, personally and story-wise if not mechanically. As for Roy hate, I'm not sure how I feel. I've seen it here and there, but never really thought about it being wide spread. I'm awfully surprised at the reactions to this current beat-down, though. I feel rather bad for him.

And yeah...I was one of the ones who cheered every time he belittled Miko.

100% my opinion too!

[AntagonistGB]

If I didn't absolutely loathe Miko so much, Roy's constant jackassery towards her would have probably annoyed me. Other than that, Roy always has his heart in the right place, even if he tends to snark a lot (comes with the territory of being the straight man, honestly) so he's probably my favorite of the group.

[veti]

Roy is very much the straight man of the whole strip - the one with the least quirky or twisted character, closest to what we think of as 'normal'.

The downside of that is that when Roy does something bad, it's that much more shocking than if some unabashedly insane or neurotic character (like Haley or Elan) does it.

To some people, his verbal taunting of Miko (and to a lesser extent, Elan) is uncomfortable. To me it feels perfectly natural - neither of them are fragile 13-year-old flowers who wilt under mockery, they're both adults who sorely need a bit of constructive criticism. To reinforce this, we see that when Roy trades insults with Julia, both of them obviously take it as absolutely normal interaction between two people who love one another.

[Tirian]

I remember when roy gave miko his treasure type 0 remark the forums went nuts with furious miko fans denouncing him for being insulting and derogatory and for beating her up after the attack on the old guy.

First off, the Treasure Type O line was probably the biggest laugh out loud moment for me in the entire strip. I may have actually gotten out of my chair and rolled on the floor out of respect for it. Haters gonna hate, especially when you're talking about Miko fans back when she was alive.

And trash talk is part of Roy's generic battle plan. With all due respect to Thog's argument, Roy probably does get some sort of homeruled bonus for using his high intelligence to distract his opponents with harsh truths, it's just that like Elan trying to pun-battle sea trolls that it doesn't apply to enemies of sub-average intelligence.

[Hiro Protagonest]

And trash talk is part of Roy's generic battle plan. With all due respect to Thog's argument, Roy probably does get some sort of homeruled bonus for using his high intelligence to distract his opponents with harsh truths, it's just that like Elan trying to pun-battle sea trolls that it doesn't apply to enemies of sub-average intelligence.

Um, no.

1) he would know about it.

2) Elan took a level in a prestige class.

[Tirian]

He DOES know that making Miko and Nale angry is a good strategy. That's ... why he does it.

[sims796]

I think people just hate Roy because he is the most sensible and normal character in a party of PCs who are at least somewhat crazy. A lot of people simply like a crazy character, and when Roy tries to calm/talk sense into their favorite character, they get fanboy rage. In other words:
This is a forum. There is always someone who has irrational reasons for hating just about anything.

So his arrogance and the fact that he has his own little eccentricities that he tends to ignore has nothing to do with it? Maybe the fact that he feels himself superior to his teammates, as if he's the best one on the group has something to do with it? As I said, he may be the one keeping the group together, but without them, he's nothing.

Basically, to the people that found him annoying, this was the punch in the face that we felt he needed.

After all, this is a forum. There is always someone that feels others reasons as irrational if it's their favorite character under the spotlight.

[Hiro Protagonest]

He DOES know that making Miko and Nale angry is a good strategy. That's ... why he does it.

He would know if he got his intelligence as a bonus to something. Plus, he has weapon specific feats for the greatsword, so that's why he was better with it.

[Snails]

So his arrogance and the fact that he has his own little eccentricities that he tends to ignore has nothing to do with it? Maybe the fact that he feels himself superior to his teammates, as if he's the best one on the group has something to do with it? As I said, he may be the one keeping the group together, but without them, he's nothing.

Basically, to the people that found him annoying, this was the punch in the face that we felt he needed.

After all, this is a forum. There is always someone that feels others reasons as irrational if it's their favorite character under the spotlight.

Considering the company he keeps, Roy is actually better that the others. (It might be debated now. But could not be contended in the past.)

Roy is quite capable of putting another team together. It is everyone else who is likely to find themselves retired or meeting a sudden & unpleasant ending without Roy giving the Order some focus.

As for the second point, if you really felt that Roy needed that punch in the face, okay.

There happens to be many, many characters in this strip that are much higher on my list.

Unlike the other two notable crushing defeats (V's spanking at the hands of X, Belkar's mark of justice) this punch of the face does not seem likely to lead to any logical character growth. It is just a gratuitous punch in the face, against someone who is doing his best in a loony farm.

[Xanmyral]

Roy seems fine to me. Amongst the other members of OOTS, he is up there with my favorites. He does get his rear handed to him quite a bit however, when he doesn't have anyone to help him. However, considering the current situation of him being up against a minmaxed-raging barbarian the current beat down is to be expected. Concerning the other characters, he is, which is even stated in the comic, the straight man. You know, the guy who tries to keep the crazies from being too crazy. The guy who usually doesn't crack the joke, but rather tries to keep the plot moving. The major times I recall him being beat down is when he is off fighting alone with some opponent, one on one. One of those time was against the BBEG, an epic level sorcerer lich. Now, he is up against a higher level barbarian. His strength doesn't lay in his class, but rather his tactics, his leadership, and his ability to rally those around him.

(Crossing my fingers that he classes into a Warblade or something to take advantage of his INT. Doubt it though.)

[Hiro Protagonest]

Now, he is up against a higher level barbarian. His strength doesn't lay in his class, but rather his tactics, his leadership, and his ability to rally those around him.

Rivals are always the same level as you. Archvillains can be higher level, but Thog's a rival.

[zimmerwald1915]

Rivals are always the same level as you. Archvillains can be higher level, but Thog's a rival.

Roy pointed out explicitly that he doesn't consider Thog his "equal and opposite," and pointed out that given the chance he would treat Thog the same as any other "cruel and stupid goon". Thog has pointed out that in his mind they are opposites, but that does not automatically equate to "rival". Thog started out no more invested in his fight with Talky-Man than with any other poor sap. There is no indication that the "personal rival" rule-of-thumb has ever been used except in terms of Crystal-Haley, and perhaps in terms of Elan-Nale.

[sims796]

Considering the company he keeps, Roy is actually better that the others. (It might be debated now. But could not be contended in the past.)

Roy is quite capable of putting another team together. It is everyone else who is likely to find themselves retired or meeting a sudden & unpleasant ending without Roy giving the Order some focus.

As for the second point, if you really felt that Roy needed that punch in the face, okay.

There happens to be many, many characters in this strip that are much higher on my list.

Unlike the other two notable crushing defeats (V's spanking at the hands of X, Belkar's mark of justice) this punch of the face does not seem likely to lead to any logical character growth. It is just a gratuitous punch in the face, against someone who is doing his best in a loony farm.

I cannot speak on past books, as I haven't read them, however, given the comic now, I'd say he's right at home. If he feels that he's that much better, then he should indeed drop the team and find a better one (I've heard that he tried that, but nobody showed up except them). But I don't believe that he'll be able to find a better team. He is just as eccentric and loony as the rest of the team. He gives them focus. They deliver everything else.

And not for nothin, but personally, I don't hate Roy, per say. He's like that employee that's team leader in a certain project. Smart as he is, he's kind of a -----------, and if he gets punched in the mouth, the rest of the team will probably giggle.


Oh, whoops. That word is censored.

[homeosapiens]

it's very believeable that Thog is better fighter now, then Roy is. Roy lost a level, and Thog could level up fighting on the arena every week. I'd say mechanically it would be preety much predictible.

But i don't like Roy getting his ass whooped by Thog. It doesnt seem right. Roy used to be stronger than him before + he will never get the exp back if he keeps loosing. At the battle of the azure city it looked like he was the top level character on the battlefield(1-2levels above rest, also counting in "battle hardened" from cast).

If Thog can easyly kick his ass, how can he try to stop Xykon?

Can anything good came from him beeing down that hard?

And where is Durkonb when needed that bad?

[Cizak]

Rivals are always the same level as you. Archvillains can be higher level, but Thog's a rival.

"Celia, she's a personal rival. She's ALWAYS gonna be the same level as I am when we meet, if not higher."

[King of Nowhere]

I don't think the way roy put down his friend is that bad, as they generally deserve much more when roy says something.
Or probably it's just that, by videogaming on the internet, i got used to extremely jerkass people who pick on their teammates for the sligthest reasons.
Anyway, roy is generally supportive. When leading, you have to slap people from time to time.

it's very believeable that Thog is better fighter now, then Roy is. Roy lost a level, and Thog could level up fighting on the arena every week. I'd say mechanically it would be preety much predictible.

Well, i got the impression that while they had weapons, Roy was at least thog's peer. he managed to defeat him in the armed duel, after all.
THen roy got distracted, allow thog to take away his weapon, and from there there's no story.

[Mastikator]

I think it's a really big mistake to believe that a character without class features is incapable of action. Like if it's not supernatural it's not worth doing.
I think it's an even bigger mistake to believe that the OotSverse abides the D&D mechanic.

Eugene was wrong about power about how Roy won't be able to defeat Xykon because he's a fighter who's class ability is to swing a sharp metal stick.
And Xykon is exactly right about what kind of power is real power; they all are.

Roy is easily my most favorite character, and frankly, anytime Roy said something snarky, they had it coming.

[Hierarchy9990]

I quite like Roy. He's not my favorite but I like that he's calm, intelligent, and the voice of reason. Though I'm not surprised that most people prefer the "crazy" characters the most, and they have pretty valid reasons for it. But to me the crazy, and/or dumb guy trope is just too common.

Though even saying this I like most of the characters. Except for the Halfling he's a bit too crazy, and evil for my tastes, although he is hilarious.

[KingofMadCows]

Roy should get over the grudge he has with his father and take a couple levels in wizard and spellsword or abjurant champion. It's not like he doesn't know that a first level spell could have saved him from dying. Shojo is right, Roy has to evolve or he'll die, again.