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    Default [3.5e Bloodline Guide] What in the Nine Hells is a Bloodline?

    If you hadn't noticed, I like making bloodlines. The problem is, not many people know what they are or how to use them. I frequently get asked "Is this some sort of super-weak class?" or "What exactly is this?" and similar things. So I'm going to explain them.

    WHAT IN THE NINE HELLS IS A BLOODLINE?


    A (Not so?) Brief Introduction

    Here is the basis. The concept was originally given in Unearthed Arcana (That one book with tons of variant rules) as a way to give characters with supernatural heritages a way to progressively gain powers instead of having them dumped on them at level one. And with LA races, often the benefits gained mean very little by level 20 because said benefits had to be balanced for level 1 play. And that LA hurts. Well Bloodlines allow the character to gain continual benefits that are hopefully balanced for the level of the character in return for an increasing LA (Technically it's not a standard LA, but I'll get to that in a bit).

    Problem is: They failed. Well, that's my opinion at least. The bloodlines given (those on the SRD page are the same as those in the book) tend to be uninteresting, unoriginal, unflavorful, lacking fluff and generally not powerful enough for most players to seriously consider their use in a build. What's the first rule of homebrewing and creating additional material? "If you can't imagine someone not wanting to use it, it's too powerful. If you can't imagine someone wanting too use it, it's not powerful enough". I know the SRD generally lacks much of the fluff given in books, but there was almost no fluff in the book in the first place (that that was there is included on the SRD page).

    So no one used them. I haven't once heard of any group that actively used bloodlines or even considered their use. This may be somewhat due to the fact that not people know what a bloodline is (The problem which I am attempting to remedy) though certainly those that have UA must know that they're out there. They're just not good enough to use.

    Bloodlines had amazing potential. It fit fantastically with standard fantasy fiction stories where characters slowly develop their innate talents as they progress down their chosen path. And in UA Bloodlines simply didn't get the attention they deserved. And so they sat there, unused, in the first pages of a none-too-popular supplement book.

    Well, as you may know, I'm a homebrewer. When I think of something that I'd like to see in a game and can't think of a way to do that with what's currently available, I go off and homebrew something to make it work. I often get inspiration from books. It was some time ago that I read the Percy Jackson series, which focuses on the life of a Half-Blood, a son of Poseidon. As he ages and learns skills, his heritage slowly grows and he gains new powers. "Hey, it'd be pretty neat to play a character descended from a god. They're all over the place in fiction. Seriously, look at the old Greek Mythology. I should make something for it. Hey, didn't I have a book that described bloodlines? Something about powers progressing as a character levels? That'd be perfect!" *Runs and grabs book* *Begins Homebrewing* *Makes This*

    And that's how I got into the Bloodline business. As you can see, mine are a deal more powerful than those given in the original system. I've even made attempts to rewrite some of the originals and plan to do so for more. For a Major Bloodline you're giving up the HP, BAB, Saves and Class Features for your last 3 levels. That's often the best stuff. So whatever you get from the bloodline better be worth it. And that's what I've tried to do.

    Since I'm just about the only one that makes bloodlines, no one had taken some of the juiciest stuff (I don't think anyone else makes them, anyways. Except for that one guy with the Drow line). So after the success of my Half Blood I made the Magyk-Touched and later many, many more.

    What exactly is a Bloodline?

    A Bloodline is a mechanical add-on to a character that represents some sort of interesting background that is neither a class nor a race. Any character with levels may have a bloodline. Bloodlines must be decided at level 1 (Unless you're having one Grafted on, of course... (See feats at bottom)) and give progressive benefits at the levels listed.

    There are three degrees of Bloodline: Minor, Intermediate and Major. These represent the varying strengths of the supernatural gifts passed on from whatever caused them to have their powers (Note that I don't specify that they got their powers from a parent. Though they're called "Bloodlines" they work just as well for a number of other things. Like having monster parts grafted to you when you were a baby). The children of most individuals possessing a bloodline inherit the same bloodline, usually of the same level if not one down. There are of course exceptions based on the exact line (For example, the Hero-Born bloodline often skips generations or occurs randomly). Characters with a Minor Bloodline gain a benefit at fourth level and every four levels thereafter, up to level 20. Those with Intermediate gain benefits at 2nd and every two thereafter and those with Major Bloodlines gain something every level.

    "So why wouldn't I want a Major Bloodline?" you may ask. Well the answer is simple: A weird pseudo-LA that is snuck in throughout your character's progression. When a character with a Minor Bloodline would level up to level twelve, they don't. Well, they kinda do. They get a "Bloodline Level". I put this in class form below.

    Bloodline

    Skill points at each level: None. (Not even Int. None.)
    Class Skills: None
    Hit Dice: d0 (Do not add Con to health for this level. This still counts as an HD though.)

    Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special
    1st
    +0
    +0
    +0
    +0
    "I'm Really a Level!"
    2nd
    +0
    +0
    +0
    +0
    "I'm Really a Level!"
    3rd
    +0
    +0
    +0
    +0
    "I'm Really a Level!"

    "I'm Really a Level!": Levels in Bloodline stack with levels in all other class for the purpose of determining level-dependent effects, such as the amount of damage dealt by a Paladin's Smite or the Caster Level of a Wizard's spells. As this is still a level, it counts normally towards the acquisition of feats and ability score boosts as well as maximum skill ranks.


    See, it's not just an LA. It's like a Dire LA. Anywho...

    Characters with a Minor Bloodline should take a level of Bloodline before or for their 12th level. Those with Intermediate Bloodlines should take Bloodline levels for or before their 6th and 12th levels. Those with Major Bloodlines should take Bloodline Levels for or before 3rd, 6th and 12th. Individuals possessing Bloodlines may opt not to take Bloodline levels before or at the appointed level, but if they choose to do so they cease obtaining features of their Bloodline and incur a 20% penalty on any XP gotten until the Bloodline Level is taken. So a 5th level Wizard with an Intermediate Bloodline leveling up would take their first Bloodline Level, causing their CL to increase, but not their spells per day. When they next leveled (to level seven) they likely would choose to take their 6th level in Wizard, resulting in them having the spells per day of a Level 6 Wizard and a CL of 7. Bloodline characters may, at their option, choose to take Bloodline levels prior to the appointed levels in order to gain the benefit of it stacking with all other class levels for purposes of level-based abilities. Can be handy in multiclassing. You shouldn't do this 1st level though. You can only take one bloodline level if you have a Minor bloodline, two if you have an Intermediate and three if you have a Major.

    Under normal conditions you can only have one Bloodline at a time. But everyone knows that in D&D everything can mix with everything. So for your convenience I made this. The only real combination not in that is One Intermediate, One Minor. Because it'd be weird.

    How to make a Bloodline

    "Well neat-o, Mister Welknair! I'm going to start using your amazing stuff in my game! I think I'll play a Kitten-Friend next!"

    "... That may not be the best idea. Especially if your DM is running a serious campaign. Anyways Jimmy, isn't there something that you should also consider?"

    "Well what could that be, Mister? Playing an Akodrin and driving my party insane?"

    "No, no, no. I'm referring of course to
    HOMEBREWING.
    You can make your own Bloodlines! It's not difficult at all! In fact you can do it in a few simple steps!"



    Bloodlines always follow a set pattern. Which is... Skill +2, Special Ability, Ability +1, Special Ability, Affinity +2, Special Ability. Repeat as needed. It's not too difficult to come up with the Skills and Abilities for a bloodline. Just go with whatever seems thematic or most useful to the type of character you envision using the bloodline. Remember that you cannot use the same skill or ability score twice. The Affinity is a scaling bonus on interaction checks with... something. Usually it has to do with whatever the parent was (Celestial Tied gain bonuses when dealing with Angels, Dragon Descended when dealing with Dragons), though there are some exceptions. Again, go with whatever makes sense. The real meat and potatoes of the bloodline is the Special Abilities. These can be about anything. Bonus feats are easy choices, but it's much better to go with things along the lines of Class Features. Level based abilities should scale differently depending upon the magnitude of the bloodline (If you'd normally gain access to Augments as an Ozodrin of 1/2 your level when you have a Major Bloodline, it's as an Ozodrin of 1/4 your level for an Intermediate Bloodline or 1/8 for a Minor). This will likely differ depending upon how you choose to balance things. And really doesn't matter if you're not basing the bloodline off of a class, as I've done a couple of times.

    And so the steps are:

    1. Come up with an idea. This can be just about anything. The big criteria is that is has to be something that progresses naturally as the character advances, likely without them consciously making an effort to do so.

    2. Decide the Skills and Abilities and put them in order.

    3. Determine what the Affinity applies to. Write fluff for the Affinity. Doesn't have to be much.

    4. Make the Special Abilities. These should be powerful enough to be useful, but not to the point of overshadowing the character's class. They should be flavorful and fitting given the bloodline in question. Don't forget the fluff for each.

    5. Type that baby up! The Minor and Intermediate Bloodlines are derived from the Major one. You could hypothetically make Intermediate or Minor ones, but it's much better to make Major Bloodlines and give people the option of choosing or restricting choices to the lower levels.

    Here is the formatting that I use:

    HTML Code:
    [table="class: grid head"]
    [tr]
    	[th] [B]Level[/B] [/th]
    	[th] [CENTER][B]Minor[/B][/CENTER] [/th]
    	[th] [CENTER][B]Intermediate[/B][/CENTER] [/th]
    	[th] [CENTER][B]Major[/B][/CENTER][/th]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    	[td]1 [/td]
    	[td]  [/td]
    	[td]  [/td]
    	[td] [/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    	[td]2 [/td]
    	[td]  [/td]
    	[td]  [/td]
    	[td] [/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    	[td]3 [/td]
    	[td]  [/td]
    	[td]  [/td]
    	[td] [/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    	[td]4 [/td]
    	[td]  [/td]
    	[td]  [/td]
    	[td] [/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    	[td]5 [/td]
    	[td]  [/td]
    	[td]  [/td]
    	[td] [/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    	[td]6 [/td]
    	[td]  [/td]
    	[td]  [/td]
    	[td] [/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    	[td]7 [/td]
    	[td]  [/td]
    	[td]  [/td]
    	[td] [/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    	[td]8 [/td]
    	[td]  [/td]
    	[td]  [/td]
    	[td] [/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    	[td]9 [/td]
    	[td]  [/td]
    	[td]  [/td]
    	[td] [/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    	[td]10 [/td]
    	[td]  [/td]
    	[td]  [/td]
    	[td] [/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    	[td]11 [/td]
    	[td]  [/td]
    	[td]  [/td]
    	[td] [/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    	[td]12 [/td]
    	[td]  [/td]
    	[td]  [/td]
    	[td] [/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    	[td]13 [/td]
    	[td]  [/td]
    	[td]  [/td]
    	[td] [/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    	[td]14 [/td]
    	[td]  [/td]
    	[td]  [/td]
    	[td] [/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    	[td]15 [/td]
    	[td]  [/td]
    	[td]  [/td]
    	[td] [/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    	[td]16 [/td]
    	[td]  [/td]
    	[td]  [/td]
    	[td] [/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    	[td]17 [/td]
    	[td]  [/td]
    	[td]  [/td]
    	[td] [/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    	[td]18 [/td]
    	[td]  [/td]
    	[td]  [/td]
    	[td] [/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    	[td]19 [/td]
    	[td]  [/td]
    	[td]  [/td]
    	[td] [/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    	[td]20 [/td]
    	[td]  [/td]
    	[td]  [/td]
    	[td] [/td]
    [/tr]
    [/table]

    And here is the arrangement of the bonuses:

    Level
    Minor
    Intermediate
    Major
    1 Skill 1 +2
    2 Skill 1 +2 Special Ability 1
    3 Ability Score 1 +1
    4 Skill 1 +2 Special Ability 1 Special Ability 2
    5 Affinity +2
    6 Ability Score 1 +1 Special Ability 3
    7 Skill 2 +2
    8 Special Ability 1 Special Ability 2 Special Ability 4
    9 Ability 2 +2
    10 Affinity +2 Special Ability 5
    11 Affinity +4
    12 Ability 1 +1 Special Ability 3 Special Ability 6
    13 Skill 3 +2
    14 Skill 2 +2 Special Ability 7
    15 Ability 3 +1
    16 Special Ability 2 Special Ability 4 Special Ability 8
    17 Affinity +6
    18 Ability 2 +1 Special Ability 9
    19 Skill 4 +2
    20 Affinity +2 Special Ability 5 Special Ability 10

    As you can see, the Minor and Intermediate lines are just the first 5 and 10 levels of the Major line. So all you really need to do is make the Major line and go through the trouble of typing out the other two.

    And remember - presentation is important. Adding a nice picture and having proper formatting go a long ways towards a nice piece of homebrewing.

    Ever wanted to be the descendant of Death Himself? Well sorry, I don't have a bloodline for that (yet?). Go make one.


    Conclusion

    I hope that this guide and explanation will be useful in enlightening people about the wonder of bloodlines. Bloodlines are a remarkably adaptable concept that can be used to illustrate all manner of character backgrounds from being Chosen by the Far Realms to descended from Titans. These lines can be used for adding a dash of flavor to an otherwise run-of-the-mill character (Can you say Bladechild Barbarian?). They are diverse and powerful. Why not try one out on your next character?


    Asides


    I must reiterate: I did not come up with the idea of bloodlines. That was all Monte Cook in Unearthed Arcana. That is where the rules for this amazing system were given. I just nabbed onto an interesting concept and ran with it. AGAIN: THIS IS NOT MY WORK! This is my attempt to explain something that most people don't fully understand. The bloodlines that I've linked to, on the other hand are entirely my work. MINE.

    I believe that there is an alternate interpretation of how Bloodline Levels work. Something about Replacing vs. Delaying. I don't know a terrible lot about that argument. I think my above explanation is the Delaying method. The other interpretation is likely perfectly valid. Sorry for being uneducated in this matter.

    I would like to thank Bagel for this particularly wonderful explanation of the Replacement system. We're still not 100% sure if it's correct, but it seems alright.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bagel View Post
    The character is still required to take a level of bloodline within the designated time as per the original rules. After they take this level this level is included in their ECL as described in the guide. However, instead of gaining the next level after the bloodline, they will "re-level" the bloodline level they obtained. This level then replaces the bloodline level. Effectively the character must obtain enough experience to gain the level twice.


    Example: Crimson the Warlock has a Red Dragon bloodline, when he gains enough experience he acquires a level of Bloodline for his 12th level. He is effectively ECL 12. He then must gain enough experience equal to the difference between level 11 and 12 to effectively gain a 12th level in Warlock that then replaces the bloodline level. When the warlock level replaces the bloodline level he is still a ECL 12 character until he gains enough experience to become level 13. He retains his bloodline abilities as is able to continue to gain new ones as per the original rules.
    I am also aware that Sorcerers in PF have "Bloodlines". These and those are entirely different. Seriously. The PF Sorcerer's Bloodlines are class features, for Boccob's sake. These are independent of class. Also note the little "3.5e" in the title. Now stop mixing the two up.

    There are a couple of balance options available to DMs wishing to use bloodlines (whether they be my own or those given in UA). One option is to say that all the PCs have Bloodlines and ignore the odd pseudo-LA thing. This leads to a slightly more high-powered game. Especially when using Major Bloodlines. Think "Gestalt Lite". The second option is at the opposite end of the spectrum. If you think the bloodlines are too strong you can instead choose to turn the pseudo-LA into full-blown LA. This means no HD increase, no level-based-effect increases, doesn't count towards feats and ability score boosts and doesn't increase max skill ranks. Admittedly that's not a huge penalty given what it was at before, but it's still something. A less drastic option for reducing their power is to limit the Bloodline Levels' stacking effects to a single class, thus reducing their ability to be abused by multiclassers.

    Another interesting idea is that of giving creatures Bloodlines. In such a case, treat them as a character with a number of levels equal to the creature's HD. Glamerkin Displacer Beast? Titankith Ogre? Dragon Descendant Gelatinous Cube? Yeah. You can have those now.

    Oh and never let your players use this or this.


    Additionally I'll be keeping a list here of Bloodlines I'm planning on making. (Those that I have already made are available in my extended signature).



    Bold=Request

    Eh, whatever. Taking requests again, but as you can see the list is quite long. I will be making things as inspiration strikes me. Give me a particularly interesting idea and I'm more likely to make it.

    If you are requesting a Bloodline based on a class, there are a couple of requirements. Namely, it must be a Base Class and be centered around a unique magic system. See the Name Given, Blade Child, Emergent Atrocity, Quisling, Akodrin, Chosen of the Far Realms, Kitten Friend, or Tinkerer.

    All Bloodlines that I've made can easily be found in my Extended Signature.
    Last edited by Welknair; 2014-05-04 at 07:57 PM.
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    Welknair, you are like... some living avatar of win. Who's made of win. And wields win as if it were but a toy. Win.
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    Welknair you are a god among men. Thank you for creating a playground for the completely insane.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark
    There have also been times where I was jealous of your ingenuity and skills.

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    Default Re: [3.5e Bloodline Guide] What in the Nine Hells is a Bloodline?

    This really is just made of win. Seriously. I've been eating up your bloodlines since I've seen them appearing, but it has been a while since I've looked over the exact bloodline rules, so this is just so cool. I like the way you presented it, and you explained both how the bloodlines work and how yours are different exceedingly well. This makes me want to include bloodlines in my games now, most definitely. They're just so freaking cool.

    Again, great job with this.
    Domriso's Homebrew Compendium - A collection of all of my homebrew, throwing in my own design philosophy and my conceptions for possible new things.

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    Default Re: [3.5e Bloodline Guide] What in the Nine Hells is a Bloodline?




    I'm happy to hear that I both explained this in an understandable way and inspired someone to use Bloodlines in a game. Let me know how it goes!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daverin View Post
    Welknair, you are like... some living avatar of win. Who's made of win. And wields win as if it were but a toy. Win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Virdish
    Welknair you are a god among men. Thank you for creating a playground for the completely insane.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark
    There have also been times where I was jealous of your ingenuity and skills.

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    Default Re: [3.5e Bloodline Guide] What in the Nine Hells is a Bloodline?

    This is very informative. Up until now I had no clue how bloodlines worked (and often cringed whenever I saw them).
    This sort of looks like something that your DM should just tell you to add as part of rolling up your character. I would think that you could just remove the built in LAs if all of your characters have a bloodline. Then again, I'm used to very high powered campaigns (got to level 80 in one (that took a lot of house rules to make work)).
    Last edited by eftexar; 2011-07-24 at 09:39 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5e Bloodline Guide] What in the Nine Hells is a Bloodline?

    This is so excellent. I never realized how much bloodlines could add to a character before you started making them. It was one of those things I just sort of skimmed over in UA since it didn't look very interesting. Yours are fun and flavourful, and seem well-balanced. Speaking of which...

    Story time! So I've got a xenoalchemist character in my RL group, and we decided to try your Blood Study feat. Net result: AWESOME. Now one of the party members (a kenku spy, basically) has the Major Glamerkin bloodline and is having tons of fun messing around with illusions to supplement his other powers. We weren't entirely sure what to dissect to give it to him, and settled on cutting open a vern illusionist working for the lamenti. Now we have a kenku who is partially made out of illusions.

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    Default Re: [3.5e Bloodline Guide] What in the Nine Hells is a Bloodline?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellus View Post
    Story time! So I've got a xenoalchemist character in my RL group, and we decided to try your Blood Study feat. Net result: AWESOME. Now one of the party members (a kenku spy, basically) has the Major Glamerkin bloodline and is having tons of fun messing around with illusions to supplement his other powers. We weren't entirely sure what to dissect to give it to him, and settled on cutting open a vern illusionist working for the lamenti. Now we have a kenku who is partially made out of illusions.
    *Cue Squeeing*

    People are using it! PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY USING IT!

    *Does lap around house*


    *Regains composure*

    I'm glad to see that my work is playing an active role in your game.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daverin View Post
    Welknair, you are like... some living avatar of win. Who's made of win. And wields win as if it were but a toy. Win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Virdish
    Welknair you are a god among men. Thank you for creating a playground for the completely insane.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark
    There have also been times where I was jealous of your ingenuity and skills.

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    Default Re: [3.5e Bloodline Guide] What in the Nine Hells is a Bloodline?

    Quote Originally Posted by Welknair View Post
    *Cue Squeeing*

    People are using it! PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY USING IT!

    *Does lap around house*


    *Regains composure*

    I'm glad to see that my work is playing an active role in your game.

    Dragon Descendant bloodline works great with the Dragonfire Adept, if you ask me. Pack the Descendant's breath weapon full of metabreath stuff for a suppah blast meanwhile you still use your standard at-will breath while you wait for your ubber breath to charge. Not to mention I like the feeling that my character is much, much more in tune with dragon kind, not just in body (DFA) but in Blood and ancestry as well (Descendant)
    Plus, you only get one Dark invocation though, and miss out on the Immunities. But the Descendant makes up for it with resistances and its dragon-form, free wings (even if DFA gets free wings early anyway), extra breath weapon- well, theres quite a bit that makes up for it.


    Also, is it just me or should Bloodlines count as Heritage for feats? I mean, come on, Bloodlines are just more physical, tangible evidence of your heritage.
    Last edited by Cipherthe3vil; 2011-07-24 at 11:09 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5e Bloodline Guide] What in the Nine Hells is a Bloodline?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cipherthe3vil View Post
    Dragon Descendant bloodline works great with the Dragonfire Adept, if you ask me. Pack the Descendant's breath weapon full of metabreath stuff for a suppah blast meanwhile you still use your standard at-will breath while you wait for your ubber breath to charge. Not to mention I like the feeling that my character is much, much more in tune with dragon kind, not just in body (DFA) but in Blood and ancestry as well (Descendant)
    Plus, you only get one Dark invocation though, and miss out on the Immunities. But the Descendant makes up for it with resistances and its dragon-form, free wings (even if DFA gets free wings early anyway), extra breath weapon- well, theres quite a bit that makes up for it.
    Are you actively playing said Dragon Descendant? If so, is that Radiant Dragon Lineage holding up alright?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daverin View Post
    Welknair, you are like... some living avatar of win. Who's made of win. And wields win as if it were but a toy. Win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Virdish
    Welknair you are a god among men. Thank you for creating a playground for the completely insane.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark
    There have also been times where I was jealous of your ingenuity and skills.

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    Default Re: [3.5e Bloodline Guide] What in the Nine Hells is a Bloodline?

    Well, this seems quite handy as an easy reference/intro to bloodlines. However, reading through it I noticed two minor errors you may want to correct.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Welknair View Post
    "I'm Really a Level!": Levels in Bloodline stack with levels in one other class for the purpose of determining level-dependent effects, such as the amount of damage dealt by a Paladin's Smite or the Caster Level of a Wizard's spells. As this is still a level, it counts normally towards the acquisition of feats and ability score boosts as well as maximum skill ranks.
    The bolded part is wrong. If you look at the SRD page, you'll see this line.
    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    If a character has levels in two or more classes in addition to his bloodline levels, each class gains the benefit of adding the bloodline levels when calculating abilities.
    Given that this part helps to make bloodlines more usedul for multiclassing, it seems somewhat important.

    As for the other error, it's less important, but still worth noting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Welknair View Post
    Characters with a Minor Bloodline must take a level of Bloodline for their 12th level. Those with Intermediate Bloodlines must take Bloodline levels for their 6th and 12th levels. Those with Major Bloodlines must take Bloodline Levels for 3rd, 6th and 12th. Individuals possessing Bloodlines may opt not to take Bloodline levels when appointed but if they choose to do so they cease obtaining features of their Bloodline and incur a 20% penalty on any XP gotten until the Bloodline Level is taken.
    Again, the bolded parts are wrong. If the SRD page is carefully read, you'll note that you may take bloodline levels at any level. You just need to make sure to take them before reaching the designated level if you don't want penalties. You could even take a bloodline level for level one (though that would be stupid as you'd have 0 hit points and be rather prone to death and unconciousness). Still if someone so chose, they could take all their bloodline levels early to get them out of the way, or more like, take advantage of the above mentioned multiclasing potential of them (as they certainly aren't good for much else other than keepign your bloodline when given the option of a class level).

    Just figured you'd want to know.

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    Default Re: [3.5e Bloodline Guide] What in the Nine Hells is a Bloodline?

    Quote Originally Posted by Owrtho View Post
    Well, this seems quite handy as an easy reference/intro to bloodlines. However, reading through it I noticed two minor errors you may want to correct.

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    The bolded part is wrong. If you look at the SRD page, you'll see this line.

    Given that this part helps to make bloodlines more usedul for multiclassing, it seems somewhat important.

    As for the other error, it's less important, but still worth noting.

    Again, the bolded parts are wrong. If the SRD page is carefully read, you'll note that you may take bloodline levels at any level. You just need to make sure to take them before reaching the designated level if you don't want penalties. You could even take a bloodline level for level one (though that would be stupid as you'd have 0 hit points and be rather prone to death and unconciousness). Still if someone so chose, they could take all their bloodline levels early to get them out of the way, or more like, take advantage of the above mentioned multiclasing potential of them (as they certainly aren't good for much else other than keepign your bloodline when given the option of a class level).

    Just figured you'd want to know.

    Owrtho
    You are very much correct. I think I fixed them sufficiently, but you should still probably check. Thanks.
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    Default Re: [3.5e Bloodline Guide] What in the Nine Hells is a Bloodline?

    Looks good, though I might add something before the what levels you should take bloodline levels by stating that may take them at any level (up to as many times as their bloodline requires, as I don't think they can take it past that).

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    Default Re: [3.5e Bloodline Guide] What in the Nine Hells is a Bloodline?

    Quote Originally Posted by Owrtho View Post
    Looks good, though I might add something before the what levels you should take bloodline levels by stating that may take them at any level (up to as many times as their bloodline requires, as I don't think they can take it past that).

    Owrtho
    Hm. That is included at the end of the blurb. Okay, I need some new people to read it to see if that paragraph makes any sort of sense.
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    Default Re: [3.5e Bloodline Guide] What in the Nine Hells is a Bloodline?

    Quote Originally Posted by Welknair View Post
    As this is still a level, it counts normally towards the acquisition of feats and ability score boosts as well as maximum skill ranks.
    An interesting tactic for building a bloodlined character (especially starting at higher level) might be to take Bloodline levels in a clump at 2-3-4 (or 3-4, or 4), and then get enough skills with your normal level 5 to qualify for a PRC at 6 (and now have 15 HD total with which to take PRC levels instead of 14 or 13 or 12). Though from an optimizer's standpoint taking a bloodline is rarely a good decision, this little trick might make some stronger offerings more worthwhile.

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    Default Re: [3.5e Bloodline Guide] What in the Nine Hells is a Bloodline?

    Quote Originally Posted by DeAnno View Post
    An interesting tactic for building a bloodlined character (especially starting at higher level) might be to take Bloodline levels in a clump at 2-3-4 (or 3-4, or 4), and then get enough skills with your normal level 5 to qualify for a PRC at 6 (and now have 15 HD total with which to take PRC levels instead of 14 or 13 or 12). Though from an optimizer's standpoint taking a bloodline is rarely a good decision, this little trick might make some stronger offerings more worthwhile.
    Yes that is a very valid tactic. And hopefully the strength of my bloodlines should make bloodlines more viable to individuals concerned with optimization.
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    Default Re: [3.5e Bloodline Guide] What in the Nine Hells is a Bloodline?

    Quote Originally Posted by Welknair View Post
    Hm. That is included at the end of the blurb. Okay, I need some new people to read it to see if that paragraph makes any sort of sense.
    Ah, you're right. I'd not read through the entire paragraph after your change before, so hadn't noticed that part. Looks good then.

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    Default Re: [3.5e Bloodline Guide] What in the Nine Hells is a Bloodline?

    Quote Originally Posted by Owrtho View Post
    Ah, you're right. I'd not read through the entire paragraph after your change before, so hadn't noticed that part. Looks good then.

    Owrtho
    Good to hear. I also added in my added of "Blooded Beasts" - Monsters with Bloodlines. Could make for some... very interesting and random encounters.
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    Default Re: [3.5e Bloodline Guide] What in the Nine Hells is a Bloodline?

    After much contemplation, I don't think I'll be able to fulfill your requests Amechra. The classes for which you want me to make bloodlines are simply not sufficient to base them off of. By examining those bloodlines that I've made that focus around existing classes (Namegiven, Quisling, Akodrin, Chosen of the Far Realms), you'll likely notice that they have something in common - an entire supernatural system to back them up. And it is that system which I spend much of the bloodline working on. The idea is to embrace and give a taste of the system while not edging in on the territory of the actual class. But without a system like that, the only option for a class-based bloodline is to directly crib off of the class features, allowing for a direct comparison between the two ("A Major Bloodline gets you all the stuff five levels gets you, and only costs three..."). It just doesn't work out well. Out of the three, the Librarian seems like it'd be the most likely to work, but still there's only so much that I can do with Rote Erudition.
    Last edited by Welknair; 2011-08-05 at 06:17 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5e Bloodline Guide] What in the Nine Hells is a Bloodline?

    Is Dire LA another way of explaining how SRD Bloodlines work, or is it just how your bloodlines work?
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    Default Re: [3.5e Bloodline Guide] What in the Nine Hells is a Bloodline?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobold-Bard View Post
    Is Dire LA another way of explaining how SRD Bloodlines work, or is it just how your bloodlines work?
    It's another way of explaining it. It's just another way of presenting the information in a format that hopefully is more understandable than what is said in the SRD.
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    Default Re: [3.5e Bloodline Guide] What in the Nine Hells is a Bloodline?

    Quote Originally Posted by Welknair View Post
    It's another way of explaining it. It's just another way of presenting the information in a format that hopefully is more understandable than what is said in the SRD.
    Much more, thanks.
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    Default Re: [3.5e Bloodline Guide] What in the Nine Hells is a Bloodline?

    so correct me if i am wrong an intermediate bloodline character would look like this


    1 sorc 1
    2 sorc 2
    3 bloodline
    4 sorc 3
    5 sorc 4
    6 bloodline
    7 sorc 5
    8 PRC 1 [full magic]
    9 PRC 2 [full magic]
    10 PRC 3 [full magic]

    they would be ECL and caster 10 and have spells known as a caster 7 but their BAB and Saves would be as if they were level 7 because the bloodlines would be "holes"?
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    Default Re: [3.5e Bloodline Guide] What in the Nine Hells is a Bloodline?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bagel View Post
    so correct me if i am wrong an intermediate bloodline character would look like this


    1 sorc 1
    2 sorc 2
    3 bloodline
    4 sorc 3
    5 sorc 4
    6 bloodline
    7 sorc 5
    8 PRC 1 [full magic]
    9 PRC 2 [full magic]
    10 PRC 3 [full magic]

    they would be ECL and caster 10 and have spells known as a caster 7 but their BAB and Saves would be as if they were level 7 because the bloodlines would be "holes"?
    That is almost correct. That's what it would be for a Major Bloodline. An Intermediate takes their Bloodline Levels normally at 6th and 12th. Major is 3rd, 6th and 12th. But yes, that is the general idea.
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    Default Re: [3.5e Bloodline Guide] What in the Nine Hells is a Bloodline?

    It's OK, Welkneir.

    Hopefully, my Aura system will be awesome enough to merit a bloodline.

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    Default Re: [3.5e Bloodline Guide] What in the Nine Hells is a Bloodline?

    Looks like a good lineup. For the Binding Bloodline, I'd like to suggest the name Vessel, as Binders and probably their descendants merely serve as temporary bodies to Vestiges.
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    Default Re: [3.5e Bloodline Guide] What in the Nine Hells is a Bloodline?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyromancer999 View Post
    Looks like a good lineup. For the Binding Bloodline, I'd like to suggest the name Vessel, as Binders and probably their descendants merely serve as temporary bodies to Vestiges.
    Sounds good. Per usual, I have absolutely no experience with Binding, so the result should be interesting.
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    Default Re: [3.5e Bloodline Guide] What in the Nine Hells is a Bloodline?

    Right, If you know so much about bloodlines, Can you tell me why they don't have epic level progressions?
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    Default Re: [3.5e Bloodline Guide] What in the Nine Hells is a Bloodline?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojolagger View Post
    Right, If you know so much about bloodlines, Can you tell me why they don't have epic level progressions?
    Because that would make sense. Since when has WotC made sense?

    And it would be difficult to make progressions for many of them. Most have features that scale with level, but the features themselves don't scale for most. What would a 22nd level Major Dragon Descendant get? Then there's the matter of the skills and abilities. What would happen when you had gotten a bonus to all six abilities? Does it repeat? Also the pseudo-LA is scaled for the benefits gotten by 20th level. Getting features that are useful in epic would surely cost something beyond the current set back.


    The only feature that would scale easily into epic is the Affinities.
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    Default Re: [3.5e Bloodline Guide] What in the Nine Hells is a Bloodline?

    for posterity's sake, what is the replacement method instead of the delaying method that is inherit in the original rules for bloodlines?
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    Default Re: [3.5e Bloodline Guide] What in the Nine Hells is a Bloodline?

    I have read that you are not taking any more requests so I don't have much hope for this, but at the same time I'm thinking the suggestion may strike a cord with your creativity.

    Two concepts.
    Luck ( base classes off the top of my head would be RoC's Fortune Seeker or Fortune Blessed, though i believe no new magic system was created)
    &
    Time (no base class that i can think of just a neat idea IMO)

    On another note. Love your bloodlines.

    And to anyone that knows is it possible to take bloodlines from the fighters bonus feats? Could you get more than 1 major bloodline? Or several mudbloods? Would it even be worth it?

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    Default Re: [3.5e Bloodline Guide] What in the Nine Hells is a Bloodline?

    Quote Originally Posted by Merchant View Post
    And to anyone that knows is it possible to take bloodlines from the fighters bonus feats? Could you get more than 1 major bloodline? Or several mudbloods? Would it even be worth it?
    There is currently no means of having more than one Major Bloodline. I have been juggling around ideas for a race or class that can, though. Problem is, to balance out the race, it'd likely need an LA.

    ...

    And LA is the bane of Bloodlines. Well, I could always get around the LA by making a bloodline... for the race that gives bloodlines...

    You see the problem.

    But at the point that you're getting two bonuses a level from bloodlines, your character starts valuing their bloodlines more than their class. Hence the idea of a bloodline-focused class. Possibly with the ability to change which bloodlines are active, or something like that.

    As for your requests, they have been noted. And found... interesting.

    Bagel, sadly I am unable to give you a proper answer as I do not fully understand the debate myself. My guess would be it's whether the Bloodline level delays your taking of your next class level, or replaces the features that would be gained at that level. But that doesn't really make sense.. Wouldn't you just multi into something else to overwrite? Not to mention, I can find no precedence for that in the SRD or UA. If anyone else is more familiar, they can feel free to exposit their knowledge for our benefit. If and when I fully understand the two methods, I'll add the information to the main post.
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