[3.5e Bloodline Guide] What in the Nine Hells is a Bloodline?

[Merchant]

Question:
In regards to the Blood King and Mixed Blood. If you mixed multiple Dragon lineages together.
1. Would you be able to breathe more than one at the same time?
2. And the Blood Gift -Dragon Scales would all the Natural Armour bonuses stack with each other?

[EdroGrimshell]

1) I doubt it
2) bonuses of the same type do not stack unless stated otherwise

[Merchant]

Checked the dragon scales gift. It says "you gain a bonus to" the NA. That means its in addition to doesn't it? So they are all just "adding" on to whatever existing NA you already have. At least that is what it sounds like and would be interesting in my opinion.

[EdroGrimshell]

Anyone have an idea on a Racial Feat Inherent Bloodline?

[Welknair]

Checked the dragon scales gift. It says "you gain a bonus to" the NA. That means its in addition to doesn't it? So they are all just "adding" on to whatever existing NA you already have. At least that is what it sounds like and would be interesting in my opinion.

The NA bonus, nor any of the other Armor bonuses from any bloodline-related feature, was intended to stack.

Anyone have an idea on a Racial Feat Inherent Bloodline?

I'm surprised this thread is still active.

[EdroGrimshell]

I'm surprised this thread is still active.

Eh, just wanted to know what you'd put in a racial feat inherent bloodline, or if it'd be a new bloodline altogether. Actually a highborn racial bloodline would be interesting...

[Welknair]

Eh, just wanted to know what you'd put in a racial feat inherent bloodline, or if it'd be a new bloodline altogether. Actually a highborn racial bloodline would be interesting...

More interesting racial identities would indeed warrant their own bloodline. In the Homebrewer's Campaign, we ruled that Inherent could be used with about any feat chain and Owthro used it with his Ozodrin Abomination feat chain. Really a matter of taste.

[EdroGrimshell]

More interesting racial identities would indeed warrant their own bloodline. In the Homebrewer's Campaign, we ruled that Inherent could be used with about any feat chain and Owthro used it with his Ozodrin Abomination feat chain. Really a matter of taste.

I meant as skills and ability bonuses, because i have no idea.

[Welknair]

I meant as skills and ability bonuses, because i have no idea.

Ah, you mean the Lineage characteristics. Just choose some things thematic to the chain. For example, if the chain is intended for Rogues, representing a growing tie to the Plane of Shadow, the Abilities would probably be Dex, Int, Wis. Or something like that. By the third ability, you're really just picking based on preference. Skills works similarly. Hide, Move Silently, Knowledge (The Planes), and Sleight of Hand would be suitable for the aforementioned chain. And again, the Affinity would be thematic. Creatures from the Plane of Shadow, in this case.

I see what you mean - It is a bit more difficult with Racial lines, as they usually don't have such transparent tendencies. I'd suggest imagining a stereotypical example of the race and what they'd likely have as their highest attributes and skills. Affinities are pretty self-explanatory here.

[DrewVolker]

Hey, I don't suppose you are taking requests for bloodline? Or would be willing to help me out with one I wanna make?

I have a half-orc character that I might be playing again in a upcoming game, and his grandfather was a skullcrusher ogre.
So I was thinking about coming up with a skullcrusher ogre bloodline to use for my character.

Skullcrusher ogre is in monster manual III just in case you didn't know.

Thanks.

[flabort]

To my knowledge, he used to, but now isn't.

Right now I'd recommend the Titankith line, since it's for giants, and I'm... not sure whether ogres are giants (I'd have to check to remember), but I think they are. If they're not, they're monstrous humanoids, but it should still fit.

[Pyromancer999]

To my knowledge, he used to, but now isn't.

Right now I'd recommend the Titankith line, since it's for giants, and I'm... not sure whether ogres are giants (I'd have to check to remember), but I think they are. If they're not, they're monstrous humanoids, but it should still fit.

Pretty sure that Ogres have the Giant type.

[Cieyrin]

Pretty sure that Ogres have the Giant type.

They do. Skullcrushers aren't much different, at least enough so to change type.

[DrewVolker]

Alright, I think that is what I will do, thanks to all who replied.

[Ducky]

I love your work on bloodlines, but i have a question. Are the base abilities of the base race (so +feat from human or +low light vision from elves) included in your bloodlines? Does the bloodline replace racial abilities or is it in addition to them?

There doesn't seem to be anything in Unearthed Arcana or anywhere on the internet to say one way or the other. The fact that Bloodlines are located in the "Racial" category of the book hints that the Bloodline is a "race" but all the pictures are of "human with X bloodline"

Anyway, what do people think? Base racial abilities included or no?

[radmelon]

Bloodlines are an addition to your race. You get the benefits of the bloodline on top of whatever race you may be.

[dradamh]

I wish this explanation was more visible on search engines than the Bloodlines Handbook that explains bloodlines as level adjustments. That explanation doesn't fit with the text that clearly categorizes bloodlines as class levels and not level adjustments.

[TheBrassDuke]

As a layman, I still don't understand how to use and apply these things. A step-by-step guide in English, without the "elite" jargon associated with it--as if you're talking to a beginner--would be nice. I'm by no means a beginner, but this Bloodline thing is confusing as balls.

Say I'm a sixth level human sorcerer and I want to go with the Djinn or Efreeti bloodline from SRD. Step-by-step, what am I doing? Minor, Intermediate and Major, I'm confused as all hell. How much experience do I have, what abilities? What level am I really? Where do I go from here?

You know, as if you were talking to an idiot. Or trying to describe the theory of wormholes to, say, Sloth from the Goonies.

Please and thank you. :3

[the_insomniac]

they most certainly DO count towards ecl. when they say they dont increase character level normally, BUT here are some benefits, its just a poorly worded "here's something bad, BUT here's something good"....what is meant is this: when u increase in character level, u go through a process of "leveling up" (described in the player's handbook on page 58) but when u take a level of bloodline, its different. no hd, no saves, no class features, etc. what happens is this: (before i explain, people should know that when u level up, your xp doesnt "reset" to 0. as u gain xp, u hit "checkpoints" so to speak. when u hit these "checkpoints", u "level up".) now, when a 2nd level character with a "bloodline" has gained enough xp to level up to a 3rd level character, they have to take a level of bloodline (assuming they havnt yet). IF the level of bloodline DIDNT count towards ecl, then you would have a rogue2/bloodline1 (or whatever2/bloodline1) with an ecl 2 but enough xp to level up. so, the whatever2/bloodline1 would then take the 3rd level of rogue (or whatever), and go through the process of leveling up (marking increases to hp, saves, bab, skills, etc). now, what this would look like is this: dm: "u need to take a level of bloodline now", and the player would say "ok" and then just take the 3rd level of rogue (or whatever), and mark down the benefit granted by the bloodline at character level 3. "taking a level of bloodline" would then be a process entirely composed of NOTHING! now, on page 19 of unearthed arcana, it explains what the penalties are for NOT taking a level of bloodline by the deadline given. there IS a downside to NOT taking the level on time, so, that means it's POSSIBLE to NOT take the level on time. so why wouldnt someone meet the deadline for taking the bloodline level? maybe their character REALLY needs another HD in order to keep surviving, who knows, but the point is this: bloodlines are NOT just "free benefits". they come at a cost. that cost is outlined in the first paragraph under the heading "bloodline levels" on page 19 of unearthed arcana. a static la ISNT ENOUGH. that's what it says. and these bloodline levels ARE worse, as they cant be reduced through la buyoff (natually, since they are levels, not level adjustments).

some people just cant accept the way things are. for example, all these people who think they can cast higher level spells with an illumian extra spell slot trick or whatever. theres this cool little sentence on page 8 of the player's handbook "....Intelligence score of 15, so she’s smart enough to get one bonus 1st level spell and one bonus 2nd-level spell. (She will not actually get the 2nd-level spell until she is 3rd level wizard, since that’s the minimum level a wizard must be to cast 2nd-level spells.)" now, heighten spell is in THAT book. so if u have a bonus 2nd level spell slot from a 15 int, and the feat heighten spell, can u heighten magic missile to 2nd level and cast it? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! END. OF. DISCUSSION. there is NO argument to that, and there is NO argument to the fact that bloodlines are NOT as cheap as level adjustments!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Caudex Capite]

As a layman, I still don't understand how to use and apply these things. A step-by-step guide in English, without the "elite" jargon associated with it--as if you're talking to a beginner--would be nice. I'm by no means a beginner, but this Bloodline thing is confusing as balls.

Say I'm a sixth level human sorcerer and I want to go with the Djinn or Efreeti bloodline from SRD. Step-by-step, what am I doing? Minor, Intermediate and Major, I'm confused as all hell. How much experience do I have, what abilities? What level am I really? Where do I go from here?

You know, as if you were talking to an idiot. Or trying to describe the theory of wormholes to, say, Sloth from the Goonies.

Please and thank you. :3

This thread is several years old, but it's probably worth pointing out that Welknair rewrites the Bloodline rules in the first post here to make them slightly more consistent and understandable, and I recommend using them as he explains them in the OP here.

To quickly try to address sources of confusion: You don't acquire a Bloodline at some point in your career. It's something you decide on at character creation, and has no immediate cost. However, you suffer some debilitating penalties if you try to level up normally with a Bloodline at certain levels. With a Major Bloodline, you have to take 3 "Bloodline Levels," one each at or before levels 3, 6, and 12. So, you create your Sorcerer with a Major Djinni Bloodline, level up to level 2 normally, but when you next level up, instead of becoming a Sorcerer 3, you become Sorcerer 2/Bloodline 1. This Bloodline level gives you a Hit Die with no hit points (not even from Constitution), no skill points, and no class skills. However, it does increase your caster level (but not spells known or per day), and, for other classes, anything else that's explicitly dependent on your number of class levels, like the damage a Paladin's Smite Evil does. This level isn't an LA, and can't be bought off.
At level 5, you'll be Sorcerer 4/Bloodline 1 with a CL of 5. At level 6, you'll be Sorcerer 4/Bloodline 2 with a CL of 6, at level 12 you'll be Sorcerer 9/Bloodline 3, and at level 20 you'll be Sorcerer 17/Bloodline 3.

That's the way Welknair's fix works, and it's probably the most reasonable way to play them. The rules of bloodlines as written have some ambiguity to them, and there are lots of arguments over exactly what they mean. Specific points of contention include whether or not they count as levels for the purposes of how much experience it takes to level up, if they stack multiple times if you have, for example, both Sorcerer levels and Abjurant Champion levels, and how much experience you should get from encounters. Seriously, you aren't going to find consensus on those things, and I'd strongly advise using the houseruled version that Welknair presents in this thread, along with the other bloodlines he's homebrewed (they're in his signature) in place of everything in the SRD. It's more balanced and easier to understand.

EDIT: Oh, goodness, I'd only noticed that the post I replied to was in 2015, and that the more recent necro was in the post after it. Sorry!