Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

[gabado]

so i'm putting together a white scars list and i want it to be as close to the fluff as possible. so far i have only encountered one problem, there is no white scars fluff. well ok there is some, but it's not very descriptive. i want to run kor'sarro khan on moondrakkan (the conversion is going to be a pain) and as much of the third company as possible. does anyone have any idea of what a white scars 3rd company list looks like? i already have 8 bikes, so i think i'm heading in the right direction, but some help would really be appreciated.

[Cheesegear]

i want to run kor'sarro khan on moondrakkan (the conversion is going to be a pain)

The conversion is easy.

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I've done it myself. Due to the way the Sammael Kit works, you can actually put any Captain you like on the Bike. The hardest part is cutting out the Plasma Cannon from the Jetbike. After that, the conversion is easy with a Scout-bike and the top-half of the Captain of your choice.

does anyone have any idea of what a white scars 3rd company list looks like? i already have 8 bikes

White Scars like speed. Basically what happens when Space Marines want to troll Kults of Speed.

All Squads must be in a Transport, or on Bikes. No exceptions - except Scouts and Assault Marines who do not remove their Jump Packs. Ever. Devastators are just plain icky and absolutely no Dreadnoughts.

Easy.

[Ricky S]

Generally the first 5 companies of a chapter are battle companies. So the 3rd company would be one of the main fighting forces of the chapter. They would have a lot of fast moving units, the majority of which would be bikers. Kor Sarro Khan actually leads the 4th company and is master of the hunt. A title unique to the white scars.

Some advice on using bikes:
-If you take attack bikes be sure to put them in a regular bike squads so that you can allocate instant kill weapons to single bikers.
-Always take the maximum special weapon allowance
-Always take the same special weapon in one squad, mixing leads to inefficiency.
-When in doubt, more meltas. The bikes already have twin linked bolters so more anti tank is always in order.
-Bikes are a shooting army, never forget that. The exception to this is tooled up command squads but these should only be taken in high point games.
-Be aware when you are placing objectives, you want them near to buildings to block enemy objectives but out in the open so you can hold them.

[Tehnar]

Hello all, I am a warhammer fantasy player but will soon play a friendly game of 40k. It will be a small game, 750 points, and this is the list I am working on:

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HQ
Warboss
Mega Armor (power claw + twin linked shoota)
Cybork body
=========
110
Troops:
Meganobz x 4
Trukk (RPJ, reinforced ram)
=======
205

Ork boyz 11 + Nob (with PK)
Trukk (RPJ, reinforced ram)
=========================
152

Ork boyz 10
Trukk (RPJ, reinforced ram)
=========
105


Elite:
Lootas x10
=========
150

The Boss rides with the 10 strong boyz in the Trukk.

I will be playing against either vulgaris space marines, or Blood Angels. Any suggestions for a first game?

Oh and we are heavily proxying/borrowing models from a veteran player, so models shouldnt be a problem.

[Erloas]

Any suggestions for a first game?

For a first game, not much besides play and learn. There are so many possible things to say for a first game, that not knowing what you know makes it hard to say much of anything.

Coming from Fantasy the thing that will probably stand out the most is that vehicles tend to take a lot of shots and never completely die or blow up the first time something looks at them. There is nothing even kind of equivalent in fantasy. The binary armor system is also rather annoying, and you'll probably find as Orks you'll almost never see your armor save.

[Cheesegear]

Kor Sarro Khan actually leads the 4th company and is master of the hunt. A title unique to the white scars.

Wrong. Kahn certainly does lead the 3rd. He'Stan did lead the 4th, but doesn't currently. Since He'Stan is frequently brought up, it's common to assume 'somebody' is the leader of the 4th, when they really aren't.

Slightly relevant in regards to painting and such;
Bikers are Assault Marines. Or, they're Tactical Marines as part of the 6th Company. Slightly confusing.
Either way, you're White Scars, everyone rides Bikes. But it might be important if you're trying to adhere to what a 'Company' looks like, since that was part of the question.

When in doubt, more meltas. The bikes already have twin linked bolters so more anti tank is always in order.

Don't take Plasma weapons on Bikes. Rapid Firing Plasma Weapons (because you're Relentless), only gives you more chances to hurt yourself that ignore your T5, which is a huge sad face. Meltagun range doesn't matter since you're on Bikes. You'll make it.

Only time you take Plasmaguns is for a Command Squad where they have Feel No Pain. That being said, you can get four of them. Without 'tooling up', this is one of the better set-ups for Command Squads. However, it's still pretty expensive and isn't Scoring.

Hello all, I am a warhammer fantasy player but will soon play a friendly game of 40k. It will be a small game, 750 points [...] I will be playing against either vulgaris space marines, or Blood Angels. Any suggestions for a first game?

I don't like Mega Armour. You're too slow. Either sit back and shoot (Lootas, Lootas, Shootas). Or run as fast as you can forwards. Meganobz, the middle ground between the two, isn't really that good.

Still, try and learn the most you can.

[pilvento]

After saving lots of money and waiting lots of weeks... i got em, i got my eldar jetbikes!

I also did some conversions and now i have.

1 seer on bike
5 warloks on bikes
12guardians on bikes (2x shuriken cannons)

Now im ready to build my saim-hann army list, i want a standard 1500 tournament army now for a regional tournament in november, the metagame arround here is necrons, mech, and dark eldar.

Other potential models i have

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3 Grav tanks. i got turrets for serpents, falcons or prismas
3 Vypers, got all weapon options and i want to fit the 3 of them in the list
20 dire avengers
20warp spiders

An i also have this slow bastards....

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2wraithlords
6scorpions
5reapers
karandras, mugan ra, asurmen

Im working on the list now and ill post it later, still any help will be apreciated as allways. Thank u

[Cheesegear]

Now im ready to build my saim-hann army list, i want a standard 1500 tournament army now for a regional tournament in november, the metagame arround here is necrons, mech, and dark eldar.

Dealing with Necrons, get as much S8 as you can handle. Typically this will be Bright Lances and Missile Launchers. Both of which you want anyway. And Fire Dragons. Which you do have? Correct? No? Fix it.

Mech, dealing with tanks, see above. The more powerful Mech builds are also MSU, which means they're fodder for low-AP Pie Plates after you've shut down their vehicles. Since you're not running foot-Warlocks which are slow, you don't want to be running babysat Wraithlords. Enter Fire Prisms. As many as you can get. 3 is Maximum you can have, 3 is the minimum you can have.

Dark Eldar, FNP is a pain in the butt. Pack as much S6 weapons as you can. Since you're Eldar; this shouldn't be a problem. You should already be packing S8 anyway to deal with the above, but, you're Eldar. Nearly all units in the 'dex can get Strength 6 weapons of one sort or another.

[Craftworld]

After saving lots of money and waiting lots of weeks... i got em, i got my eldar jetbikes!

I also did some conversions and now i have.

1 seer on bike
5 warloks on bikes
12guardians on bikes (2x shuriken cannons)

Now im ready to build my saim-hann army list, i want a standard 1500 tournament army now for a regional tournament in november, the metagame arround here is necrons, mech, and dark eldar.

Other potential models i have

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3 Grav tanks. i got turrets for serpents, falcons or prismas
3 Vypers, got all weapon options and i want to fit the 3 of them in the list
20 dire avengers
20warp spiders

An i also have this slow bastards....

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2wraithlords
6scorpions
5reapers
karandras, mugan ra, asurmen

Im working on the list now and ill post it later, still any help will be apreciated as allways. Thank u

Here is a possible list.

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Farseer-Jetbike, Doom, Fortune, Spirit Stones
-170 points
Warlocks-5, Jetbikes, Embolden x2, Destructor x3,
-265 points

Fire Dragons-5 in a Wave Serpent with EMLs
-200 points

Guardian Jetbikes-12, 4 Shurikan Cannons (try and make two more)
-304 points
Dire Avengers-10, Exarch, 2 Shurikan Catapults, Bladestorm in a Wave Serpent with EMLs and Spirit Stones
-282 points
Dire Avengers-(Same as above but Wave Serpent has Bright Lances)
-297 points

Fire Prism-Holo Fields, Spirit Stones
-160 points
Fire Prism-Holo Fields, Spirit Stones
-160 points
Fire Prism-Holo Fields, Spirit Stones
-160 points
Total:1998 points
To me, this list seems solid, not full bike, and not full mech, but it pleases me all the same. The only problems are that you may need more Serpents (not sure how many you got) and that you need more Fire Dragons. The only gaming problem is that it is very small and elite, but it is fast so be moving every turn.

I didn't read that you wanted the Vypers in the list so I didn't write them in...and I didn't know if you had Vypers...slipped my mind...but they would be easily put into the list.

[Cheesegear]

i want a standard 1500 tournament army now for a regional tournament in november, the metagame arround here is necrons, mech, and dark eldar.

Here is a possible list.
[...]
Total:1998 points

Go team!

Here's a slightly better list that you can actually use.

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Farseer - 123 Points
Runes of Warding, Spirit Stones
Doom, Guide

Fire Dragons (x6) - 243 Points
Exarch: Dragon's Breath Flamer, Crack Shot
+ Wave Serpent: Twin-Linked EMLs, Shuriken Cannon

Striking Scorpions (x7) - 279 Points
Exarch: Biting Blade, Shadowstrike
+ Wave Serpent: Twin-Linked EMLs, Shuriken Cannon

Jetbikes (x6) - 152 Points
x2 Shuriken Cannons
+ Warlock: Conceal

Jetbikes (x6) - 152 Points
x2 Shuriken Cannons
+ Warlock: Conceal

Jetbikes (x6) - 152 Points
x2 Shuriken Cannons
+ Warlock: Conceal

Vyper - 50 Points
Shuriken Cannon

Fire Prism - 115 Points
Fire Prism - 115 Points
Fire Prism - 115 Points

Total: 1496 Points

So, turns out I read it wrong and you don't have a Farseer on foot.
Since you don't have enough tanks, you can drop the Wave Serpent from the Scorpions (no awesome Outflank, sad face), and cram in some Vypers instead. EMLs and Shuriken Cannons.
The Fire Dragons, likewise, you don't have. But, you're an Eldar player and I really, really want to know why you have 20 Warp Spiders and no Fire Dragons...That's crazy!

Since you also don't have the models for it, you can drop the last squad of Jetbikes for a unit of Dire Avengers with Bladestorm, Defend and Shimmershield.

Still, this list is something you should think about.

[Ricky S]

Wrong. Kahn certainly does lead the 3rd. He'Stan did lead the 4th, but doesn't currently. Since He'Stan is frequently brought up, it's common to assume 'somebody' is the leader of the 4th, when they really aren't.

Oops confused myself there. I should have just checked my codex instead of looking at internet forums.


I have been playing against eldar with my space marines quite a lot recently and have been having real trouble with wraithguard and wraiths. My opponent runs eldred ulthran and a whole host of wraithguard supported by pathfinders and wraiths. It wouldn't be so bad but the wraithguard constantly get buffs from eldred. I took a librarian which nullified some of the problems but I am still struggling with the high toughness. Any advice?

[IthilanorStPete]

Oops confused myself there. I should have just checked my codex instead of looking at internet forums.


I have been playing against eldar with my space marines quite a lot recently and have been having real trouble with wraithguard and wraiths. My opponent runs eldred ulthran and a whole host of wraithguard supported by pathfinders and wraiths. It wouldn't be so bad but the wraithguard constantly get buffs from eldred. I took a librarian which nullified some of the problems but I am still struggling with the high toughness. Any advice?

Sternguard, for their 2+ posioned ammo? One thing you might try is take Kantor - have one of your Scouts units take Telion, use him to pick off the Warlock granting his Wraithguard cover, then the Sternies can rip them up. Also, pathfinders die horribly in the face of flamers...so, say, put Kantor in a drop pod with Sternguard, 2 of whom have heavy flamers?

[Craftworld]

Go team!

Here's a slightly better list that you can actually use.

derp...sorry

[Cheesegear]

I have been playing against eldar with my space marines quite a lot recently and have been having real trouble with wraithguard and wraiths.

Eldar are a frequent opponent of mine, and one that I'm well-versed in playing against.

Couple of the better picks I can think of;
Sternguard with Heavy Flamers. Combi-Meltas to suit. I don't know your opponent's army, but if the Warlocks leading said Wraiths have Conceal (like they should), you're better off with the 2+ Poison ammo. And the Heavy Flamers destroy Pathfinders. Pick your targets.

Ironclads with twin-Flamers destroy Eldar. They aren't Dark Eldar with Haywire Grenades all over the place. Most Eldar can barely touch AV13 in combat.

Wraithguard aren't totally an issue. They only have an 18" effective range, so, pick them off with Rifles. Use Telion to take out Warlocks like IStP said. Wraithlords are terrified of both Scouts and Sternguard.

If you can pull it off, Flamestorm Cannons are not nice to Wraithguard. Still, yeah. Kantor. Drop an Orbital on the Wraithguard on the first turn. Sternguard and Scouts to pick up the pieces.

Thunderfire Cannons. Destroy. Eldar.

[IthilanorStPete]

What's so good about TFCs against them, Cheese? Unless they've got a bunch of Guardians, you're not going to be cutting through their saves (except for Pathfinders that're best flamed anyways) Is using the Groundstrike Quake thingy to lock down their more mobile units that good? I could see it against Eldar with Scorpions/Banshees/etc., but doesn't seem as useful against Wraith stuff.

EDIT: Oh yeah, Ironclads with double Heavy Flamers sounds delightful. Just put them in a drop pod, for the love of the Emperor.

[Cheesegear]

Is using the Groundstrike Quake thingy to lock down their more mobile units that good? I could see it against Eldar with Scorpions/Banshees/etc., but doesn't seem as useful against Wraith stuff.

Err...What?
Tremor Shells are better against slow-moving units. Either sit in place with your 12" range guns and be useless, or move through Dangerous Terrain and risk wounds that ignore T6, and barely go very far anyway.

Oh, right. Farseers and Warlocks. They don't have real saves. Every single save they take is an Invulnerable (unless on a Jetbike which they aren't because Wraiths). Null Zone isn't fun for them.

[Renegade Paladin]

Rules question: If a melta blast is aimed within half range of the weapon but scatters out of it, does it lose the bonus die to armor penetration?

Tournament today. Revised list:

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1500 points

Company Command Squad - 200
-Medi-pack, carapace armor
-Three plasma guns
-Chimera dedicated transport

Veteran Squad - 155
-Three meltaguns
-Chimera dedicated transport

Veteran Squad - 155
-Three meltaguns
-Chimera dedicated transport

Infantry Platoon - 200
-Platoon Command Squad
--Lascannon team
-Infantry Squad
--Lascannon team
--Power weapon
-Infantry Squad
--Lascannon team

Hellhound - 130

Devil Dog - 135
-Multimelta

Leman Russ Battle Tank - 170
-Heavy bolter sponsons

Leman Russ Demolisher - 195
-Multimelta sponsons

Basilisk - 155
-Heavy flamer
-Camo netting

I have five points to spend. I could give melta bombs or krak grenades to the blob, put a flamer in the blob to hit people who get close, give the blob a sniper rifle to keep up with the lascannons' range, or give smoke launchers to either the Hellhound or Devil Dog. Other suggestions are welcome. Opinions?

[Cheesegear]

Rules question: If a melta blast is aimed within half range of the weapon but scatters out of it, does it lose the bonus die to armor penetration?

Yes.

Tournament today. Revised list:

Today!? Better make this quick.

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Company Command Squad - 200
-Medi-pack, carapace armor
-Three plasma guns
-Chimera dedicated transport

Whoa. Plasma in your Command Squad? Okay, the Medi-Pack and Carapace Armour help. But oh wow.

Veteran Squad - 155
-Three meltaguns
-Chimera dedicated transport

Veteran Squad - 155
-Three meltaguns
-Chimera dedicated transport

Yep.

Infantry Platoon - 200
-Platoon Command Squad
--Lascannon team
-Infantry Squad
--Lascannon team
--Power weapon
-Infantry Squad
--Lascannon team

Looking good. Except this is where your Plasmaguns should go.

Hellhound - 130

Devil Dog - 135
-Multimelta

I don't like it. Prefer Bane Wolves to Hellhounds. Multi-Melta on Devil Dog? Heh. Overkill. B-E-A-UTIFUL.

Leman Russ Battle Tank - 170
-Heavy bolter sponsons

Leman Russ Demolisher - 195
-Multimelta sponsons

Looking good. And more than a few tanks to take the flak when push comes to shove.

Basilisk - 155
-Heavy flamer
-Camo netting

This, I'm not a fan of. Colossi are more fun.

I dunno. You're Renegade Paladin! You're good enough these days that I really don't need to comment on your lists anymore. You know what you're doing. Some things I don't like about the list (half-half Veterans and Infantry, and then half-half Infanvets and Tanks). It's nowhere near as good as it could be if it just stuck to one thing.

The Plasma on the Command Squad makes me cry on the inside.

put a flamer in the blob to hit people who get close [...] or give smoke launchers to either the Hellhound or Devil Dog. Other suggestions are welcome.

Yes.

[Timberwolf]

Played a little planetstrike tournament today, got in on the 3 way tie for 1st place.

I took...
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Offensive list (only thing compulsary is the HQ)

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Librarian
Jump Pack

Death Company
Jump Packs
powerfist

Sternguard
8x Combi Meltas
Heavy Flamer
Meltagun
Powerfist
Drop Pod

Death Company Dreadnought
Heavy Flamer
Drop Pod

Furioso Dreadnought
Drop Pod

Defensive List (Hq + 2 troops)

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Librarian

Tac Squad
Plasma gun
Plasma Cannon

Scouts
Sniper rifles
Missile launcher

Devastators
Lascannon x2
Missile launcher x 2

Sternguard
6x Combimeltas
Powerfist

Vindicator

Game 1

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Game 1 was against Blood Angels, he took Tac squads, Sangunary Guard, A Vindicator and scouts. I felt for this guy because his Sanguinary Guard failed dismally against my Sternguard and Librarian, even with Master Crafted rerolls. Being Planetstrike, I'd set up the terrain, as defender, to deny him any chance of dropping behind me. He brought his Vindicator on as reserves and I shot it's side armour with my one remaining Lascannon before it could fire (my Devastators took the brunt of the boltgun fire and nearly died). I Plasma spazzed his squads to bits and finished them with boltgun fire. His close combat scouts did the best, killing my sniper scouts before dying in a hail of Kraken rounds.

Game 2

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Game 2 was against the Grey Knights. I was kinda worried about this and it was a close fought game. Interceptors, Strike squads, Inquisitor with Jokaero, Inquisitor with H/B Servitors and a pair of Autocannon Dreadnoughts. My Opponent split the buildings for objectives and set up the Jokaero and Inquisitor in his bastion in one corner with a Dreadnought to back him, and 2 Strike squads in the opposite corner. I drop podded the Sternguard next to the bastion and combatsquadds, one immobilised and weapon destroyed the dreadnought, the other blew up the bastion and killed the Jokaero. The Death Company Dread manged to get into the Strike squad and wreaked havoc, but the Furioso and Death Company got shot to bits. It ended with me holding 1 objective because the only thing he had that could hurt my Dread in close combat was krak grenades. Quite why he didn't have any Daemonhammers is a matter for conjecture.

[Hootman]

Evening, everyone. *tips hat*

I would like to talk about the Imperial Guard, if that's ok. Specifically, an extremely casual army list I'm building in my spare time.

I say "extremely casual" because the pieces are not GW in the slightest. I purchased a pile of tiny plastic army men a while back, approximately 300 figures, in various poses for about $30. My plan was to build a foot-Guard army for use in games with friends, to test the army and see if I ever want to expand my army-collection into the Guard someday in the future.

So, while I do not recall the exact numbers of guys in each pose that I have, I intend to use each pose-type as only one type of soldier; essentially replicating WYSIWYG as best as I can. I know I have about 6 different types of guys in 2 different colors, so I should be able to cover every major type of guy in my list without a lot of trouble. What I would like from you guys is suggestions for how to build the list itself. I'm made some rudimentry attempts, but I would like your thoughts before I give it another go.

These are the things I have gathered from my time as a 40k player about Imperial Guard:

1. They're incredibly breakable if you know what you are doing, and it's difficult to build a truly terrible list without trying to actually do that.
2. If you're playing Foot-Guard, Heavy Weapon Teams are pretty much your bread, butter, and the whole damn grocery store.
3. Under most circumstances, the following units are not very impressive: Conscripts, Penal Legion, Ratlings, Ogryns.
4. Creed is probably not needed for the extra orders if I just take two Company Command Squads.

These are the only questions I really have right now:

1. I'm fairly certain that I CANNOT fuse Heavy or Special Weapon Squads to an Infantry Squad. Am I correct?
2. What is the purpose of Special Weapon Squads, anyways? They seem a lot more fragile than they're worth, if you cannot fuse them to an Infantry Squad.

I know that numbers 3 and 4 of my "How-To-IG" list are not something I have to pay attention to if I don't want to, because this is a fun-only list, but I figured I'd make sure I wasn't mistaken in my assumptions. I would appreciate any suggestions people might have for how I ought to build things, and any corrections of the assumptions I've been making about the army.

[Cheesegear]

1. They're incredibly breakable if you know what you are doing, and it's difficult to build a truly terrible list without trying to actually do that.

Yep.

If you're playing Foot-Guard, Heavy Weapon Teams are pretty much your bread, butter, and the whole damn grocery store.

Heavy Weapons Team, the model? Yes.
Or Heavy Weapons Squad, the unit? No. Or at least not as much as people think

Under most circumstances, the following units are not very impressive: Conscripts, Penal Legion, Ratlings, Ogryns.

In Foot-Guard, 30 Ratlings for 300 points isn't a bad deal. Since in Foot Guard it only means 3 Lascannon-equipped Infantry Squads with a bit extra.

Creed is probably not needed for the extra orders if I just take two Company Command Squads.

Yes. More things for your opponent to shoot at. And more things to be redundant when a Farseer Mind Wars your face off.

I'm fairly certain that I CANNOT fuse Heavy or Special Weapon Squads to an Infantry Squad. Am I correct?

No. You shouldn't be fielding Heavy Weapon Squads anyway.

You must take at least 2 Infantry Squads. Regardless of whether or not you take anything else, you have to have two Infantry Squads per platoon.

Heavy Weapons Squad - 105 Points
x3 Lascannons

Or, you can give the Infantry Squads you already have those Lascannons for 40 Points, leaving enough points left over to get a whole 'nother squad and a bit extra. Or add Plasmaguns, etc.
Use Combine Squads to get your two Lascannons 26 ablative wounds and you're gold.

The only reason to take Squads of Heavy Weapons is to get Multiple Barrage Mortars (Mortars suck on their own in an Infantry Squad, broken if you do it right), and maybe a few extra autocannons because your Infantry Squads have Lascannons.

HWSs are too expensive when compared to the awesomeness that is the Infantry Squad.

What is the purpose of Special Weapon Squads, anyways? They seem a lot more fragile than they're worth, if you cannot fuse them to an Infantry Squad.

Trip Demolition Charges. Nothing else. In a Valkyrie.

[Renegade Paladin]

I still can't win games. The Basilisk did work, though, more than my Manticore ever has. Why? Marines don't laugh it off, that's why.

I went straight from the tournament to a D&D game, so I'm exhausted. I may or may not get around to more details later. I got run over in the first game of the tournament by some Blood Angels player on his second game ever, though, because he delayed long enough dithering over where to deep strike his stuff that our sixth turn got canceled by the TO, and Dante was contesting the objective by himself directly in front of my Demolisher at the end of turn five. He had almost nothing left; one more turn would have completely tabled him.

As for the plasma command squad, that's been a staple of my lists for months. Never leave the barracks without it. With two 4+ chances to not blow themselves up in the event of a one, I almost never suffer Gets Hot! wounds.

[One Step Two]

Hi playgrounders, quick question for today:
Once upon a time it used to be that you could only have one Mastercrafted Weapon per character, it would appear that Grey Knights paladins can mastercraft all their weapons. Have the rules changed allowing multiple Mastercrafted weapons? Or is this a case of codex trumps rules? Or am I simply remembering an old rule?

Clarification would be wonderful. Cheers!

[Cheesegear]

it would appear that Grey Knights paladins can mastercraft all their weapons.

It sure does, doesn't it?

Have the rules changed allowing multiple Mastercrafted weapons? Or is this a case of codex trumps rules?

Check your rulebook. 'Master Crafted' is no longer a Universal Rule. It is written in all Codecies where relevant. Therefore, Codex > Rulebook. Because the rulebook doesn't even have it.

[Timberwolf]

Sanguinary Guard also have all mastercrafted weapons unless you spring for the powerfist.

[Cheesegear]

Sanguinary Guard also have all mastercrafted weapons unless you spring for the powerfist.

Sanguinary Guard all have one Master Crafted weapon.
Paladins can Master Craft all their weapons. Including Psycannons.

[Renegade Paladin]

Speaking of Sanguinary Guard, yesterday's tournament.

Game one vs. Blood Angels.

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Spearhead deployment. One objective in the center of each table quarter, control of the majority was the primary objective. A secondary objective was having more scoring units within 12" of your opponent's table edge.

My list is as above. This was, as I mentioned, my opponent's second game ever, and his list showed it, being Blood Angels with no Razorbacks and not an Assault Marine in sight. He had two tactical squads, one minimum sized and objective squatting and the other full sized in a Rhino in reserve. One Devastator squad with mixed lascannons and missile launchers was put in cover in the middle of his deployment zone. He had a Furioso Dreadnought with blood talons and a multimelta in a drop pod, Dante with a squad of Sanguinary Guard deep striking in reserve, and rounded out with a squad of Terminators with a Terminator Librarian.

I won initiative and proceeded to do what I do to Marines, commencing to pick him apart at extreme range. The Basilisk was devastating, wiping out the Devastators and nearly demolishing his objective squatters before the Furioso killed it. He did terribly on his reserve rolls, meaning the Terminators didn't deep strike until turn 5 and Dante and company didn't show until turn 4, DoA notwithstanding. With three things deep striking, he spent at least ten minutes agonizing over where to place every single one of them. Dante and his Sanguinary Guard blew up my battle tank, which was bubblewrapped by my objective squatting infantry platoon, and then assaulted the platoon, making them pile in away from the objective. The game ended prematurely on turn five with one Marine left in his objective squatting tacticals with both the Hellhound and the Devil Dog all over him, his other squad hanging onto the other objective on his table half with a Chimera of melta vets bearing down on it, the other Chimera of melta vets holding the far objective on my table half, and Dante contesting my home objective with my platoon command squad directly in front of my undamaged Demolisher. So it was two to one with one contested, by rights one more turn (the tournament specified six turns per game) and two positively doomed models between me and reversing the score. I hate getting delayed into a loss, and it happens in at least half the games I play.

Game two vs. Witch Hunters.

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Primary objective was kill points, with a single objective in the center as a secondary goal. Being Guard against Sisters, you can probably guess how a kill point game turned out without me saying a lot more.

Game 3 vs. Guard.

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This was a custom scenario, Dawn of War deployment, with two pieces of area terrain as objectives. One point is scored for each turn you hold the enemy's objective; there is no advantage to holding your own apart from keeping it away from your opponent. Secondary objective was kill points.

Being Guard v. Guard, nobody even came close to capturing objectives, since we each parked a platoon on our respective ones and lascannoned anything that got close. I stomped him into the ground on kill points, but that was worth two tournament points to the primary objective's eight, which we split because of the tie.

[Cheesegear]

With three things deep striking, he spent at least ten minutes agonizing over where to place every single one of them.

I hope that's not an exaggeration. It doesn't take that long to Deep Strike. It really, really doesn't. Usually you can just call them out on the fact that they're stalling. If they know that you know exactly what they're doing and why they're doing it, they sometimes stop. Sometimes.

Stalling is the worst.

[Timberwolf]

My list is as above. This was, as I mentioned, my opponent's second game ever, and his list showed it, being Blood Angels with no Razorbacks and not an Assault Marine in sight. [/SPOILER]

Blood Angels must have Assault Marines and Razorbacks ?

Ok...

[Cheesegear]

Blood Angels must have Assault Marines and Razorbacks?

No, but...

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two tactical squads, one minimum sized and objective squatting and the other full sized in a Rhino in reserve. One Devastator squad with mixed lascannons and missile launchers was put in cover in the middle of his deployment zone. He had a Furioso Dreadnought with blood talons and a multimelta in a drop pod, Dante with a squad of Sanguinary Guard deep striking in reserve, and rounded out with a squad of Terminators with a Terminator Librarian.

...is certainly doing it wrong.