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  1. - Top - End - #451
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanoi View Post
    Guardsmen suffer in Kill Team because they can't ablate wounds from their valuable models, which is the biggest strength of Guardsmen.
    I realize.
    "Courage is the complement of fear. A fearless man cannot be courageous. He is also a fool." -- Robert Heinlein


  2. - Top - End - #452
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    So many choices of weapons for razorbacks...

    Now I have absolutely no idea what I am going to put on them.

    Just out of interest anyone know how to make heavy flamers for razorbacks?
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  3. - Top - End - #453
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    However, in this instance, the Assault Cannons are going on a Razorback, this is where the discussion started. For the same points, you can have Las/Plas. Which is better. Or Twin-Linked Heavy Flamers for free (we're talking Blood Angels, I believe).
    Out of curiosity: How do Grey Knight Razorbacks equipped with Psibolt Ammo Assault Cannons compare to this?
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  4. - Top - End - #454
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Winterwind View Post
    Out of curiosity: How do Grey Knight Razorbacks equipped with Psibolt Ammo Assault Cannons compare to this?
    sponsons from the Baal predator? idk why anyone would want to take a heavy flamer over a heavy bolter, but that's just me.
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  5. - Top - End - #455
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by gabado View Post
    sponsons from the Baal predator? idk why anyone would want to take a heavy flamer over a heavy bolter, but that's just me.
    What does that have to do with psybolt assault cannons?
    "Courage is the complement of fear. A fearless man cannot be courageous. He is also a fool." -- Robert Heinlein


  6. - Top - End - #456
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    What does that have to do with psybolt assault cannons?
    i think he meant to quote this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky S View Post
    So many choices of weapons for razorbacks...

    Now I have absolutely no idea what I am going to put on them.

    Just out of interest anyone know how to make heavy flamers for razorbacks?
    Hate me if you want. But that's your issue to fix, not mine.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    oh yeah, sorry, clicked the wrong thing
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  8. - Top - End - #458
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky S View Post
    Now I have absolutely no idea what I am going to put on them.
    Heavy Bolters. Cheap.
    Heavy Flamers. Still cheap. And makes good use of BA's Fast. One of MSU's biggest weakness is Infantry Spam and models that like to hide in cover. This helps. You should be taking this over Heavy Bolters nearly every time.
    Twin-Linked Assault Cannon. We've been though this, it's very good.

    Twin-Linked Lascannon. "You're paying 35 points to miss twice." - GW Blackshirt. Yeah. Lascannons are bad. Especially Twin-Linked ones since you only get one 'hit' regardless.

    Lascannon and Twin-Linked Plasmagun. 'The Internet's Darling'. Yes. We know that Assault Cannons are generally better. But if your opponent puts down any more than one Leman Russ or Land Raider, you're in the poop. Lascannons don't need to roll two 6s in a row to breach AV14. Light tanks are still cake. And all shots from this baby destroy Feel No Pain.

    Unfortunately, it's a plas...jk,lol. The Plasmagun is Twin-Linked. No Gets Hot! for you! Can this be The Internet's favourite nao?

    Just out of interest anyone know how to make heavy flamers for razorbacks?
    Baal Predators. Use the Flamestorm Cannon. Or use the sponsons. Or something. There's also Heavy Flamers that no-one ever uses in Terminator Boxes (although I use those for Sternguard).

    Most people aren't going to complain that your Razorbacks are Baal Predators. It's not too tricky. Or use Immolators. Those work. Make sure to put the turret at the back (look at how a Razorback looks, and do that).

    I prefer Immolators. Same price as a regular Razorback.

    Quote Originally Posted by Winterwind View Post
    Out of curiosity: How do Grey Knight Razorbacks equipped with Psibolt Ammo Assault Cannons compare to this?
    Psybolts aren't fair. Imagine a Dakkapred, right? Give it another Autocannon. And then make them Twin-Linked. Oh, right. And Rending.

    ...So...They compare really well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    I decided that should I ever play it again, I'd simply take a full strength squad of Storm Troopers with power weapon, plasma, and meltagun, which neatly comes to 200 points and can lay waste to power armor.
    ...Huh. I guess.
    I've had a lot of success with 10 Ratlings and 10 Veterans with three Meltaguns.
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  9. - Top - End - #459
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Psybolts aren't fair. Imagine a Dakkapred, right? Give it another Autocannon. And then make them Twin-Linked. Oh, right. And Rending.

    ...So...They compare really well.
    Alright, thanks!
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  10. - Top - End - #460
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Unfortunately, it's a plas...jk,lol. The Plasmagun is Twin-Linked. No Gets Hot! for you!
    No Gets Hot! anyway, seeing how the rule doesn't apply to vehicles.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    ...Huh. I guess.
    I've had a lot of success with 10 Ratlings and 10 Veterans with three Meltaguns.
    I own no space hobbit models.
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  11. - Top - End - #461
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    I still can't win games. The Basilisk did work, though, more than my Manticore ever has. Why? Marines don't laugh it off, that's why.
    If you want to give MEQ armies trouble, get at least two Vendettas. My FLGS's resident Guard player designed his army to eat Marine armies, and he pops Land Raiders on the first turn with something approaching regularity. He once made a grown man ragequit on turn one.


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  12. - Top - End - #462
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Turcano View Post
    If you want to give MEQ armies trouble, get at least two Vendettas. My FLGS's resident Guard player designed his army to eat Marine armies, and he pops Land Raiders on the first turn with something approaching regularity. He once made a grown man ragequit on turn one.
    This makes me a sad person. Not the popping the Landraider, that's fair enough, but a grown man ragequitting because his landraider got blown up early ?

    That must have happened to him a lot but all the same, surely you learn from this and apply your own big guns to the Vendettas on the next turn ? This happened to me last week, my Land Raider Crusader, in it's first ever game, got popped by a Piranha that, through my own fault, I forgot was there. Irritating, and I was heavily down on kill points until turn 4 (whereafter I just plain lost, but it wasn't embarrasing), but it was hardly fatal.

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  13. - Top - End - #463
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    No Gets Hot! anyway, seeing how the rule doesn't apply to vehicles.
    ...Yeah! I was testing you. Obviously. Couldn't you tell? Yeah. Totally.

    I own no space hobbit models.
    So there's no-one in the regiment stealing rations? Damn. Maybe your army might be able to get things done...
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  14. - Top - End - #464
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    After much deliberation of choices I have come to the following set up. I know its not optimised but it is not meant to be.

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    -Captain - 135pts
    Powersword
    Storm Shield

    -Honour Guard - 200pts
    4x Flamers
    Razorback with heavy flamer, Storm Bolter

    -Sanguinary Priest x 2 - 100pts

    -Tactical Squad - 205pts
    Power Sword
    Razorback with las/plas, Storm Bolter

    -Tactical Squad - 205pts
    Power Sword
    Razorback with las/plas, Storm Bolter

    -Baal Predator - 155pts
    Heavy Bolters
    Storm Bolter

    1000pts
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  15. - Top - End - #465
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky S View Post
    I know its not optimised but it is not meant to be.
    Well then, seems like your list is exactly how you want it.
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  16. - Top - End - #466
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Well, I've been playing around with the Imperial Guard codex off and on today, and I've come up with a 1500 point list style I like. I'd appreciate some critique, as this is the first time I've actually built using the IG codex before, and I'd like to know if I've made any obvious errors.

    The purpose of the list is casual play (but don't let that stop you from offering serious ideas), at 1500 points, with people who don't mind me playing with tiny green and yellow army men glued to cardboard bases. I suspect the biggest problem is the lack of special weapons on my Command Squads, but I don't know what combinations will actually work out (aside from RenPally's triple plasma, that sounds downright brutal if it worked).

    Spoiler
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    HQ
    Company Command Squad, 130pts
    -Carapace Armor, Medipack, Regimental Standard, Vox Caster
    -Commander: Powersword

    Company Command Squad, 130pts
    -Carapace Armor, Medipack, Regimental Standard, Vox Caster
    -Commander: Powersword

    ELITES
    Ratlings 7, 70pts

    Ratlings 7, 70pts

    Ratlings 7, 70pts

    TROOPS
    Platoon Command Squad, 50pts Subtotal: 415pts
    -Powerfist, Vox Caster
    Infantry Squad, 135pts
    -Vox Caster, Plasmagun, Lascannon
    -Commissar (Powerweapon)
    Infantry Squad, 85pts
    -Plasmagun, Lascannon
    Infantry Squad, 85pts
    -Plasmagun, Lascannon
    Heavy Weapons Squad, 60pts

    Platoon Command Squad, 50pts Subtotal: 415pts
    -Powerfist, Vox Caster
    Infantry Squad, 135pts
    -Vox Caster, Plasmagun, Lascannon
    -Commissar (Powerweapon)
    Infantry Squad, 85pts
    -Plasmagun, Lascannon
    Infantry Squad, 85pts
    -Plasmagun, Lascannon
    Heavy Weapons Squad, 60pts

    Penal Legion, 80pts

    Penal Legion, 80pts

    TOTAL: 1460 points

  17. - Top - End - #467
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    You're just leaving the heavy weapons squads with mortars? Then again, with that many Ratlings, there's a lot of pinning in there, so it just might work out.

    I don't like penal legion, though. They're too random; you never know what they're going to do until the game starts. That's just a matter of taste, but if you want synergy with the pinning theme you've got going on, I'd ditch them for some form of ordnance barrage vehicle.

    As much as extra survivability appeals to me, carapace armor on command squads that aren't doing things like shooting plasma guns is probably a waste of points; there's too much AP4 in the game. It keeps you safe from bolters, but so do camo cloaks, which cost the same and also stop almost everything else.
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  18. - Top - End - #468
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Using camo cloaks makes sense; only one person I know uses flamers anyways (Sisters of Battle), and odds are I could drown him in pinning and bodies anyways. Oddly, it never occurred to me that I was building a pinning list, but I was trying to keep it all foot-guard for the time being. I suppose I could build artillery out of cardboard--that was my eventual intent if I got bored of burying my foes under dozens of brave little corpses.

    I like the idea of the Penal Legion, though. They're random, but not matter what, they can outflank and will gain special abilities that are good for clearing out (or at least tying up) something nasty that's hiding in my foe's backfield. Longfangs, objective camping shootas, things like that. I understand your point though; I may give them a few tries, and if they can't be trusted, I'll scrap 'em.
    Last edited by Hootman; 2011-08-23 at 09:48 PM.

  19. - Top - End - #469
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    So, Renegade Paladin summed up everything pretty well. And, normally when the thread is this slow, I'd write a guide or something, or make some comment on the state of the hobby due to a recent event.

    But, I've got nothing. So, here's a line from our Rogue Trader game.

    Player; Dude. There's, like, buckets of blood all over the place, where did it all come from?
    Me; I bet the Astropath died again.
    GM *pokerface*


    ...Yes. It's a requirement of every game. The Psyker must die. Horribly.
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  20. - Top - End - #470
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Player; Dude. There's, like, buckets of blood all over the place, where did it all come from?
    Me; I bet the Astropath died again.
    GM *pokerface*
    I can't help but wonder... has the Astropath (the SAME Astropath) died several times, so far? Since I can't recall anything resurection-ish in Rogue Trader, it sounds implausible, to say the least, but still... it almost sounds like he has...
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Given enough time paradoxes caused by the Warp, it could happen.
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  22. - Top - End - #472
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanoi View Post
    Grey Knights are bad at low points values, and Kill Team is rather agonizing for them.

    Strike Squad x 9 - 200 pts
    - Psybolt Ammo

    is probably the best option they could put out, but some sort of variation on

    Henchman Squad - 200 pts
    - 2x Arco-Flaggellants
    - 2x Crusaders
    - 7x Death Cult Assassin
    - 1x Jokaero

    should get an honorable mention.

    Henchman Squad - 80 pts
    - 12x Warrior Acolyte
    -- 10x Stormbolters
    -- 2x Bolters

    Strike Squad x 5 - 120 pts
    - Psybolt Ammo

    is also possible, and puts a bunch of bodies down.
    I didnt think Id be able to use inquisitors as you need an inquis HQ to field them wouldnt you?

    Also how do Grey Knights fare compared to Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Vanilla?

  23. - Top - End - #473
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Grey knights do very well against other elite kill teams simply because they all have force weapons. Although I have often seen the grey knights player make the mistake of hammer handing when it wasnt needed and proceeding to kill himself with perils. Against swarm kill teams they do suffer but even then not as much as people would think thanks to the high strength stom bolters that they all carry.

    Vanilla marines are pretty bad in kill team compared to the other marine codexes. They aren't very customisable and lose out on special abilities and equipment.

    Blood angels do ok I think. I haven't ever seen them used but I would assume people would take assault squads with special weapons.

    Space wolves are great because they are so customisable.


    I was thinking more about the baal predator and its weapon load outs. I wonder if anyone has any experience with the flame storm cannon? It seems really good being ap3 and ignoring cover but being within melta and powerfist range after firing seems extremely dangerous. Unless you can wipe the entire squad out you could recieve a lot of vengeance. Although for only 115pts even killing 7 marines it would pay for itself. It seems great but I have no experience with it. I am thinking that when I expand my army to 1250pts I will simply take two flamestorm predators.

    Who needs anti tank when you can fry all of your enemy's troops?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky S View Post
    Who needs anti tank when you can fry all of your enemy's troops?
    Someone fighting me. That mentality in my metagame was what led to the winning streak that taught them the error of their ways and thereby caused me to never win again.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky S View Post
    I was thinking more about the baal predator and its weapon load outs. I wonder if anyone has any experience with the flame storm cannon? It seems really good being ap3 and ignoring cover but being within melta and powerfist range after firing seems extremely dangerous. Unless you can wipe the entire squad out you could recieve a lot of vengeance. Although for only 115pts even killing 7 marines it would pay for itself. It seems great but I have no experience with it. I am thinking that when I expand my army to 1250pts I will simply take two flamestorm predators.

    Who needs anti tank when you can fry all of your enemy's troops?
    I don't think there's anything to add to that assessment. A lot of people extol the virtues of 'suiciding' a Baal Predator at the enemy and trying to take as much infantry out before the tank explodes as possible.

    Personally I like to keep my vehicles in cover and move the defensively (too many bad experiences of 4e Tau). An Assault Cannon + 2 Heavy Bolters is just enough to wipe out a squad anyway, why risk your tank over it :p
    Last edited by Tarinaky; 2011-08-25 at 08:21 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Sslyth and Lhamaean pic:

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    I like them both. They'e got different/unique sculpts/designs/concepts on both of them, something 40k has beeen lacking somewhat lately..
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Skirmishing, free Warhammer game?
    Come one, come all! GitP MLP Steam Group is open!
    Current location of the last MLP Thread OP, too.
    Want to ask me something? Use MAIL or message me on Steam!

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    >Click!<
    Amazing Art by Dirtytabs :P
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Interesting concept, but terrible layout and formatting. Online distributed rules really benefit from multiple colums (well, anything does really) and if designed to be read on a computer screen landscape layout is a plus.
    See my own FireZone ruleset (wip) for example.
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  29. - Top - End - #479
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Sister Rosette Soulknyt
    Okay here we go, got the WD in my hands.

    Lots of shocks, and some of NOW have more reason to winge than before IMO, so for all those that said wait until the second part came out, well......WE TOLD YOU SO.
    IMO, this is a travesty of crud, wasted time, laziness and poor handling from a company such as GW.

    This is what you get now.
    Firstly whats NOT available now:

    Blessed Weapon
    Book of St Lucius
    Brazier of Holy Fire
    Cloak of St Aspira
    Litanies of Faith
    Mantle of Ophelia
    Praesidium Protectiva
    Purity Seals
    Sacred Banner of the Order Militant
    Sarissa
    Blessed Ammunition
    Holy Icon
    Holy Promethium
    Laud Hailers

    All those are now missing from 3rd edition, meaning nearly all of the Wargear good for SoB are now gone, yep, GW right royally shafted them here.

    What you get though:

    Laud Hailers for squads; unit within 12" on a 6 on d6 get a Faith point back
    Simulacrum Imperialus; re-rolls faith tests now
    Chirurgeons tools; grant FNP
    Blessed Banner; within 12" re-roll Moral/Pinning and score 1 extra wound in CC while she is alive.


    Rundown of each unit:
    St. Celestine is 115 points
    Cannoness is 65 point + wargear (no jump packs anymore but can take a Rosarious)
    Sororitas Command Squads 115 points for 3 Celestians, 1 Dialogus, 1 Hospitaler, can take 3 heavy weapons
    Uriah and Kyrinov both 90 points.
    Ecclesiachy Confessors 75 + wargear
    Battle Conclave 15 points each (can take a transport now)
    Ecclesiarchy Priest 45 plus wargear.
    Celestian Squad 80 = 15 per Celestian for additional 5 + wargear
    Repentia Squad 90 + 17 per for additional 5, (now max 10 not 20)
    Battlesister Squad 125 +12 each for additional 10 (max size 10-20, can choose any heavy weapon now)
    Rhino 35
    Immolator 65
    Seraphin 80 + 15 each for additional 5 (2xhand flamers cost 20 per model or Inferno costs 30)
    Dominion 70 +13 per additional up to 5. (have to take 10 to get 4x Special Weapons now)
    Retributor Squad 65 +12 each (can take HF, MM or HB) now useful in Immolators.
    Excorsist 135 (NO change to stats, still only glances AV14 on a 6)
    Penitant Engines 85 each (squads of 3 comes with 2x heavy flamers now)

    So over all, not happy, sad to see them being shafted as they are.

    Celestians can't complete with the likes of Paladins, Sangiunory gaurds or any other elite specialist.
    You cant take 4 special weapon Dominion squads in Immolators now, you need more Rhinos.
    Still lacking any long range weapons to take on AV13+ (big let down for the Excorsist), and loosing out on Celestians gaining any form of CC weapon (only Superior can) is painful.
    So overall prices are up from 11 points overall, loosing valuable wargear, and NO new units to counter codex broken armies like BA or GK's is just a let down.

    I stand by that as soon as i heard of the WD release, i knew GW would never commit to feasible play with the SoB, i stand by my words that GW has made a mockery of SoB and poorly submitted itself in any form of explanation to how truely crap this WD codex is.
    So yeah...

    The thumbs down on the WD Codex is looking to be pretty universal, and the few positives seem like scraping the bottom of the barrel for the slightest scrap of a silver lining.
    Points go up, abilities and options go down - you can't explain that!

    Supposedly the batt-rep uses a broken list too, with a 4 weapon, 5 woman Dominion squad which aren't available anymore. Keep in mind the list was played by the "codex's" (and I use the term loosely) author.
    The report was also against that other wonder of craptacular codex writing - Tyranids.

    And this does officially replace the Witch Hunters dex, so expect to see any SoB armies rolling 'counts as'.
    Princess in the streets.
    Princess in the sheets.
    Don't touch me I'm royalty.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Zorg View Post
    The thumbs down on the WD Codex is looking to be pretty universal, and the few positives seem like scraping the bottom of the barrel for the slightest scrap of a silver lining.
    Well, I'm not angry. I stopped playing Sisters quite some time ago. I remember the WD Blood Angels' list and how terrible that was, and how that didn't get me playing Blood Angels again either.

    People were crying out for a Sisters update. And that's exactly what they got. It's worse, but its new. Be careful what you wish for.
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