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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    I think the Space Wolf's player's reaction is the worse one. What if the Tyranid player had an emergency he didn't want to talk about? (After all, people do have a right to keeping their personal and families medical/personal problems to themselves)

    If the other guy concedes you should accept it with no questions. Demanding a reason is just an invasion of the other guy's privacy.

    Also: What about squads of Carnofexes? You can take 3 in a single FO slot and charge them across the table drawing fire away from the rest of your army with a decent chance that one of them will survive long enough to hit something.
    Last edited by Tarinaky; 2011-07-27 at 04:26 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Defilers, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    First; Old One Eye is terrible. Just saying.
    Against good players.

    Tends to tear noobs apart pretty darn quickly. When Old One Eye gets to do what he's supposed to do he is horribly destructive. He just won't.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarinaky View Post
    I think the Space Wolf's player's reaction is the worse one. What if the Tyranid player had an emergency he didn't want to talk about? (After all, people do have a right to keeping their personal and families medical/personal problems to themselves)

    If the other guy concedes you should accept it with no questions. Demanding a reason is just an invasion of the other guy's privacy.

    Also: What about squads of Carnofexes? You can take 3 in a single FO slot and charge them across the table drawing fire away from the rest of your army with a decent chance that one of them will survive long enough to hit something.
    200 points a pop, 4th ed codex had them at 80pts each the only stat change was +2 to Attack and +1 Strength. You will never ever ever take a squad of carnifexes.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by nyarlathotep View Post
    200 points a pop, 4th ed codex had them at 80pts each the only stat change was +2 to Attack and +1 Strength. You will never ever ever take a squad of carnifexes.
    +1 BS, +2 Attacks, -3 Ld and gained 'Living Battering Ram', actually.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    I'm not sure where you've got 200pts from as my codex says 160.

    That's 480 for a brood of 3 - which is only slightly more expensive than 10 greyknight terminators.

    In 1k5 points that still leaves you 1k to spend on the rest of your army, and unlike the Greyknights: Tyranids can take a lot of army for 1k points.

    No invulnerable save but as they're multiwound MCs you need at least 4 pie plates to do the job which is a massive investment in firepower and will keep the rest of your army safe as houses.

    Alternatively the cheap option is you can take a Mawloc instead of a MyceticSpore Carnifex and ensure you get a pieplate in before the enemy can shoot at it (as well as being cheaper!). Even if it's only S6 against rear that's good enough to mess up a transport or an infantry squad.

    In a big game you can also use a Trygon to allow a brood of 3 Carnifexes to, effectively, deepstrike.

    TL;DR: Taking Mycetic Spores for your Carnifexes is DOING IT WRONG
    Last edited by Tarinaky; 2011-07-27 at 05:29 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarinaky View Post
    In a big game you can also use a Trygon to allow a brood of 3 Carnifexes to, effectively, deepstrike.
    Carnifii are not Infantry.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarinaky View Post
    No invulnerable save but as they're multiwound MCs you need at least 4 pie plates to do the job which is a massive investment in firepower and will keep the rest of your army safe as houses.
    I know exactly what would happen if someone tried this on me. I'd run a single, 155 point Dreadknight with a Greatsword into them and stand good odds of wiping them all out before they even got to attack. 4 Attacks on the Charge, 3+ with Re-rolls to Hit, 4+ with Re-rolls to Wound, no Saves and a Ld 10 Force Weapon effect. Chances are good (2.666 wounds on average) that at least 3 of those attacks will produce Wounds, which means 3 dead Carnifexi. And I5 means that it's striking first.

    My Tau, on the other hand, would probably ignore them for the most part. After all, they can only move 6" a turn (plus their Run roll) and aren't actually any more dangerous to me than any other CC threat (which is to say, very, once they actually get close enough and finally batter through my Kroot screens). You want to sink a third of your army into a unit that has no more effect than any other unit? Be my guest, I'll be busy shooting out your Synapse creatures.

    In other words, they're either too easy to destroy (Hammernators, other MCs, anything with a Force Weapon) or simply don't pose enough of an actual threat for their points (Any army capable of outmanoeuvring infantry can outmanoeuvre Carnifexi) to have the effect you want.
    Last edited by Tome; 2011-07-27 at 05:44 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Carnifii fail. I saw a Blood Angel player with Stormravens just zip around shooting the Gaunts, then about Turn 3, when the Carnifii were almost in Assault range, the Stormravens 24" moved to the other side of the table. Made the Carnifii sad face.

    The Sanguinary Guard never even got out.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tome View Post
    I know exactly what would happen if someone tried this on me. I'd run a single, 155 point Dreadknight with a Greatsword into them and stand good odds of wiping them all out before they even got to attack. 4 Attacks on the Charge, 3+ with Re-rolls to Hit, 4+ with Re-rolls to Wound, no Saves and a Ld 10 Force Weapon effect. Chances are good (2.666 wounds on average) that at least 3 of those attacks will produce Wounds, which means 3 dead Carnifexi.

    My Tau, on the other hand, would probably ignore them for the most part. After all, they can only move 6" a turn (plus their Run roll) and aren't actually any more dangerous to me than any other CC threat (which is to say, very, once they actually get close enough and finally batter through my Kroot screens). You want to sink a third of your army into a unit that has no more effect than any other unit? Be my guest, I'll be busy shooting out your Synapse creatures.

    In other words, they're either too easy to destroy (Hammernators, other MCs, anything with a Force Weapon) or simply don't pose enough of an actual threat for their points (Any army capable of outmanoeuvring infantry can outmanoeuvre Carnifexi) to have the effect you want.
    This is where the argument devolves into you saying a unit then me immediately countering with a unit that kills that unit, then vice-versa. I will not rise to it.

    The discussion was how Tyranids can stand a chance against Mech Marines. There's plenty of other stuff in other armies that's equally overkill against Tau (anything that can hold a chainsword by the blunt end) or overkilled by a Dreadknight.

    Can we not have discussions expousing the use cases for a unit ruined by playground pokemon card banter? No unit is going to be all things in all situations, that's kindof the point.

    Most the complaints about the Carnifex seem to be because it's no longer the swiss-army-knife super unit it was in the 4e codex and there are now incentives to take other units.


    PS: I lied, I will rise to it. Imperial Guard take 1,500 points of cheap infantry with Lascannons. Space everything at the maximum of 2" coherency and beat everything. Can we have fun now?
    Last edited by Tarinaky; 2011-07-27 at 05:59 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarinaky View Post
    Can we not have discussions expousing the use cases for a unit ruined by playground pokemon card banter? No unit is going to be all things in all situations, that's kindof the point.
    Those were examples, based on the armies I actually play and the lists I actually use. It's not Schroedinger's List, it's the list I actually use, and I'm prepared to bet that most other lists will have a similar way to render them irrelevant.

    That aside, the point still stands that most armies will either have a way to wipe out a unit of Carnifexi or the mobility to simply avoid them, thus making the idea of dumping a third of your army into a unit of them to serve as a fire magnet something of a bad idea.
    Last edited by Tome; 2011-07-27 at 06:01 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tome View Post
    Those were examples, based on the armies I actually play and the lists I actually use. It's not Schroedinger's List, it's the list I actually use, and I'm prepared to bet that most other lists will have a similar way to render them irrelevant.

    That aside, the point still stands that most armies will either have a way to wipe out a unit of Carnifexi or the mobility to simply avoid them, thus making the idea of dumping a third of your army into a unit of them to serve as a fire magnet something of a bad idea.
    The point is that you have to react to it. If you use your mobility to avoid the big hard hitters you can't use that mobility to do other things. If you use your big guns to take them out you can't use your big guns to take other things out...

    Forcing your opponent to react to your plays, rather than allowing them to dictate plays you have to react to = tactics and fun. Otherwise you're just playing rock-paper-scissors with dice.

    And like I said, Tyranids get lots of cheap useful stuff leaving a large bulk of your points to spend on fun units like Carnifexes and Mawlocs. If the core of your army is well built it's not that big a deal.
    Last edited by Tarinaky; 2011-07-27 at 06:10 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarinaky View Post
    The point is that you have to react to it. If you use your mobility to avoid the big hard hitters you can't use that mobility to do other things. If you use your big guns to take them out you can't use your big guns to take other things out...
    Except that it's not going to have enough of an effect to justify it's price tag. Making the enemy move can be accomplished easier and cheaper by other units, and isn't that valuable when most high-mobility armies go into a game fully expecting to move around a lot. It's also not going to happen until alter on in the game, as your Carnifexi have to actually slog all the way across the board before they can threaten the enemy into moving.

    Most armies that can deal with them can either do it with a single unit, or in a single turn. That is not going to justify the amount of points you've spent.

    Tyranids do get a lot of cheap stuff, but the effect is sort of in line with that. Even if it buys you an extra turn free from shooting, they can't win against a 1500 point army when they only have 1000 to play with.
    Last edited by Tome; 2011-07-27 at 06:11 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tome View Post
    single unit
    Not with shooting you can't.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarinaky View Post
    If you use your big guns to take them out you can't use your big guns to take other things out...
    Not really. Tyranids are a pure anti-mech army. Monstrous Creatures are effectively vehicles in regards to what gets shot at them. All the anti-tank stuff is going to hit the Carnifii anyway. No inefficiencies are going to occur.

    It's like if I was to take a Land Raider in my 60-Scout army to draw anti-tank fire. It doesn't make any sense.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Not really. Tyranids are a pure anti-mech army. Monstrous Creatures are effectively vehicles in regards to what gets shot at them. All the anti-tank stuff is going to hit the Carnifii anyway. No inefficiencies are going to occur.

    It's like if I was to take a Land Raider in my 60-Scout army to draw anti-tank fire. It doesn't make any sense.
    Except MCs don't behave like vehicles when they get hit. A vehicle can be taken out by a single anti-tank round. A MC hit by an antitank round hops shouting it's just a fleshwound.

    No matter how well you roll it takes 12 lascannons to take down a Carnifex. It only takes 2 to take out an equivalent number of Land Raiders.

    Monstrous Creatures are neither tanks or infantry and killing them requires volume of fire.
    Last edited by Tarinaky; 2011-07-27 at 06:25 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarinaky View Post
    I call bull.
    A list of single units that can probably take three Carnifexi:
    Marines: Hammernators, Librarians
    Grey Knights: Dreadknight, most of their Infantry
    IG: Leman Russ Squadron
    Dark Eldar: Half the Codex, thanks to having lots of Poison shooting and ID

    Apart from Orks and Chaos Marines, everything else (Tau, Eldar, Blood Angels etc.) has the mobility to stay out of the way of the Carnifexi without really losing anything or can handily dispose of them with a single turn of shooting (Infantry Guard, Necrons, etc.).

    EDIT
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarinaky View Post
    No matter how well you roll it takes 12 lascannons to take down a Carnifex. It only takes 2 to take out an equivalent number of Land Raiders.
    Assuming it's IG doing the shooting, the number of Lascannons required to kill something in one turn:

    Vs. 3x Carnifex: 0.5 Wound, 0.41666 Wound = 28.8 Lascannons

    Vs. 2x Land Raider: 0.5 Hit, 0.08333 Penetrate, 0.02777 score a Wrecked or Exploded result = 72 Lascannons

    The Land Raider will probably take far less to lock down, but it actually takes a fair number of Lascannon shots to properly destroy one.
    Last edited by Tome; 2011-07-27 at 06:37 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarinaky View Post
    Monstrous Creatures are neither tanks or infantry and killing them requires volume of fire.
    Or weapons that invoke the Instant death rule without having to be high Str.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tome View Post
    A list of single units that can probably take three Carnifexi:
    Marines: Hammernators, Librarians
    Grey Knights: Dreadknight, most of their Infantry
    IG: Leman Russ Squadron
    Dark Eldar: Half the Codex, thanks to having lots of Poison shooting and ID

    Apart from Orks and Chaos Marines, everything else (Tau, Eldar etc.) has the mobility to stay out of the way of the Carnifexi without really losing anything.
    The Leman Russ squadron can't unless you take the variant with the gattling gun - which is completely useless in any other situation.

    All the others do it through melee attacks - which are particularly susceptible to being buggered up by the rest of the army. Grey Knights can't handle hordes.

    Hammernators are an equiv. price-point and even without support they'll both knock the stuffing out of each other.

    Psychic powers and force wepons are... fickle to say the least against Tyranids.

    I've no idea about the Dark Eldar.

    Against Tau I'd go with the Hiveguard to take out their vehicles and use the, admittedly overkill, Carnifexes for area denial or mopping up survivors. You don't have to try very hard at all to beat the Tau these days, lets be honest.
    Last edited by Tarinaky; 2011-07-27 at 06:32 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarinaky View Post
    The Leman Russ squadron can't unless you take the variant with the gattling gun - which is completely useless in any other situation.
    You mean that having a couple of turns to put multiple S8, AP3 Large Blasts into a unit of Carnifexi isn't going to kill them? Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Carnifexi only T6 Sv3+? Which would mean that, yes, they will be taking multiple wounds from each blast that hits their unit, and yes, they will not be getting any saves. With a couple of turns to blast away at them while they footslog across the board, I don't see the Carnifexi doing much beyond diverting a unit for a few turns.

    The rest of the units on the list, yeah, do get screwed over by the rest of the Tyranid army. But an all-comers list is probably going to have them anyway, and with no other good targets to throw them at... Well, congratulations, your Carnifexi distracted a unit that was fairly useless against the rest of the army anyway.

    Also, GKs being bad with hordes is a lie. They aren't as good in Assault versus hordes, but GKs are actually primarily a shooty army. And large volumes of mobile S5 AP5 firepower works pretty darn well against hordes. My GK list fails horribly though, what with being a pure for-fun list consisting of mostly Terminators.
    Last edited by Tome; 2011-07-27 at 06:56 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tome View Post
    You mean that having a couple of turns to put multiple S8, AP3 Large Blasts into a unit of Carnifexi isn't going to kill them? Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Carnifexi only T6 Sv3+? Which would mean that, yes, they will be taking multiple wounds from each blast that hits their unit, and yes, they will not be getting any saves.

    The rest of the units on the list, yeah, do get screwed over by the rest of the Tyranid army. But an all-comers list is probably going to have them anyway, and with no other good targets to throw them at... Well, congratulations, your Carnifexi distracted a unit that was fairly useless against the rest of the army anyway.

    Also, GKs being bad with hordes is a lie. They aren't as good in Assault versus hordes, but GKs are actually primarily a shooty army. And large volumes of mobile S5 AP5 firepower works pretty darn well against hordes. My GK list fails horribly though, what with being a pure for-fun list consisting of mostly Terminators.
    3 demolisher cannons cannot inflict 4 wounds on a single model in a single turn.

    But odds are good you'll scatter at least a little bit and not get the maximum number of wounds anyway and the way wound allocation works means this isn't quite as good as it sounds.

    Plus pieplates are exactly the sort of weapon I don't want being fired at my gaunts.

    We're also forgetting that MCs get move through cover and even space marines hide in the shrubberies in this Edition.
    Last edited by Tarinaky; 2011-07-27 at 06:59 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    I've got a question about the use of stormravens. I've read the fluff for years, but am building an army for the first time (grey knights.) I'm planning on using stormraven for fast delivery of my tactical squads and terminators. I'm built it with the autocannon, heavy bolters, and hurricane bolters on the sponsons, reasoning that this set up will be effective at suppressive fire while dropping troops. Two questions, actually:

    1. Is it tactically sound to use stormravens, or is there a better way?

    2. Is the weapon loadout I've put on it workable, or should it be something else?

    Thanks for any help.

    P.S.- Any other rules of thumb out there in regards to GKs?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by graymachine View Post
    I've got a question about the use of stormravens. I've read the fluff for years, but am building an army for the first time (grey knights.) I'm planning on using stormraven for fast delivery of my tactical squads and terminators. I'm built it with the autocannon, heavy bolters, and hurricane bolters on the sponsons, reasoning that this set up will be effective at suppressive fire while dropping troops. Two questions, actually:

    1. Is it tactically sound to use stormravens, or is there a better way?

    2. Is the weapon loadout I've put on it workable, or should it be something else?

    Thanks for any help.

    P.S.- Any other rules of thumb out there in regards to GKs?
    Stormravens are one of the few units that can fire at two different targets. Combined with the extra mobility I'd recommend giving them a Multimelta and an Assault Cannon.

    I also wouldn't bother with the Hurricane Bolters as you can't use them when taking advantage of your speed (As a fast vehicle it can move 12" and fire 1 weapon, plus one more at another target for its special rules)
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    A lot of people ape the plasmacannon option though.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarinaky View Post
    I also wouldn't bother with the Hurricane Bolters as you can't use them when taking advantage of your speed (As a fast vehicle it can move 12" and fire 1 weapon, plus one more at another target for its special rules)
    Wrong. Hurricane Bolters are Defensive Weapons.
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  24. - Top - End - #54
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tome View Post
    I know exactly what would happen if someone tried this on me. I'd run a single, 155 point Dreadknight with a Greatsword into them and stand good odds of wiping them all out before they even got to attack. 4 Attacks on the Charge, 3+ with Re-rolls to Hit, 4+ with Re-rolls to Wound, no Saves and a Ld 10 Force Weapon effect. Chances are good (2.666 wounds on average) that at least 3 of those attacks will produce Wounds, which means 3 dead Carnifexi. And I5 means that it's striking first.
    Force weapons don't work that way. You can only instant death one model a turn with a force weapon. You're also taking your test on 3d6 due to shadow in the warp since you're in melee range of a tyranid army. So you're killing at best 1 carnifex and then getting hit by 8 rerollable attacks that strike at S9 without allowing your 2+ save (which is the only thing that makes the dreadknight good by making him krak proof).

    Are dreadknights I5 or 4? 5 sounds wrong to me from what I remember last time I killed two easily. Carnifexes with adrenal glands charge at I4.

    Good luck charging your dreadknight into a unit of carnifexes with a wall of poisoned termagants in front of them.

    Carnifexes are easy to kill but that doesn't mean everything works easily.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tome View Post
    Also, GKs being bad with hordes is a lie. They aren't as good in Assault versus hordes, but GKs are actually primarily a shooty army. And large volumes of mobile S5 AP5 firepower works pretty darn well against hordes.
    Large columes of S5 firepower? You're an over-priced tau army. Congratulations.
    Last edited by Closet_Skeleton; 2011-07-27 at 07:06 AM.
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  25. - Top - End - #55
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarinaky View Post
    3 demolisher cannons cannot inflict 4 wounds on a single model in a single turn.

    But odds are good you'll scatter at least a little bit and not get the maximum number of wounds anyway and the way wound allocation works means this isn't quite as good as it sounds.

    Plus pieplates are exactly the sort of weapon I don't want being fired at my gaunts.

    We're also forgetting that MCs get move through cover and even space marines hide in the shrubberies in this Edition.
    Demolisher? I was talking the bog-standard Battle Cannon. And no, they can't deal 4 Wounds in a turn. But they don't have to. They have several turns to do it while your Carnifexi slog up the board. Unless we're talking a single-turn kill, in which case you have the whole rest of the IG army to chime in.

    Diverting the pie plates is a good use for those Carnifexi, yes. It's about the only time where they'll actually be diverting firepower that might do something to the rest of your army, unless you still try and run Nidzilla. Which is a pity, because I actually like that sort of Nid list. But it just doesn't work right now.

    Move Through Cover isn't actually worth that much. Cover still slows them, even if by slightly less. Dangerous Terrain is still Dangerous Terrain. Unlike Jump Infantry/Jet Bikes/Skimmers, who get to just ignore it for the most part.

    Quote Originally Posted by Closet_Skeleton View Post
    Force weapons don't work that way. You can only instant death one model a turn with a force weapon. You're also taking your test on 3d6 due to shadow in the warp since you're in melee range of a tyranid army. So you're killing at best 1 carnifex and then getting hit by 8 rerollable attacks that strike at S9 without allowing your 2+ save (which is the only thing that makes the dreadknight good by making him krak proof).
    *Flips through rulebook* Huh. Didn't know Force Weapons were limited to a single model a turn. I thought they ID'd anything they'd inflicted a Wound on.

    *Flips through GK Codex* Which is actually what Nemesis Force Weapons do do when used by anything with the Brotherhood of Psykers special rule.

    Okay, this is weird. The wording of Nemesis Force weapons outright states that when used by a unit with Brotherhood of Psykers, all wounds caused become ID. The writing implies that all Wounds becoming ID is the default effect of a Force Weapon. And yet the rules in the main book for Force weapons, which it refers to, says it only applies to a single model.

    *Check Errata* No, nothing in there. Huh. Weird. It's almost like the writer of the GK codex didn't know how the rules worked either, and just assumed that they could ID multiple targets as well... WAAAAAARRD!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Closet_Skeleton View Post
    Large volumes of S5 firepower? You're an over-priced tau army. Congratulations.
    Not really. Competitive Tau (or as competitive as they can get) is mostly Crisis Suits and Railguns backed by screens of Kroot and Piranhas. Competitive GKs are mobile, ultra-shooty marines who are can also assault fairly well. They also tend to stick to the midfield of 24" for their optimal range, as opposed to the Tau who prefer to be as far away as possible.

    The two armies are very different in playstyle, don't be confused just because they put out a lot of firepower with similar stats.

    Not that I'd know first hand. I don't go anywhere near competitive builds with my GKs. They're just for fun. (20 Terminators! All Deepstriking! Hilariously expensive mishaps all round!)
    Last edited by Tome; 2011-07-27 at 07:38 AM.
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  26. - Top - End - #56
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Should I use terminators to hold victory conditions? It seems a sensible thing to do with them being troops choices.
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  27. - Top - End - #57
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by graymachine View Post
    I've got a question about the use of stormravens. I've read the fluff for years, but am building an army for the first time (grey knights.) I'm planning on using stormraven for fast delivery of my tactical squads and terminators. I'm built it with the autocannon, heavy bolters, and hurricane bolters on the sponsons, reasoning that this set up will be effective at suppressive fire while dropping troops. Two questions, actually:

    1. Is it tactically sound to use stormravens, or is there a better way?

    2. Is the weapon loadout I've put on it workable, or should it be something else?

    Thanks for any help.

    P.S.- Any other rules of thumb out there in regards to GKs?
    A multimelta is prasctitcally designed for the stormraven. Turbo boost 24 inches, fire a twinlinked meltaz shot, wham, dead tank.

    Assault cannon / mlutimelta is among the best configs that I've found but Multimelta / lascannon is also very effective.

    The sponsons, firing at S4, are very useful but I can't honestly say I'd put the T/L Heavy Bolters even with Psybolt ammo, not when there's that lovely S8 AP 1 melta or a typhoon launcher to put on.


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  28. - Top - End - #58
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tome View Post
    *Flips through GK Codex* Which is actually what Nemesis Force Weapons do do when used by anything with the Brotherhood of Psykers special rule.

    Okay, this is weird. The wording of Nemesis Force weapons outright states that when used by a unit with Brotherhood of Psykers, all wounds caused become ID. The writing implies that all Wounds becoming ID is the default effect of a Force Weapon. And yet the rules in the main book for Force weapons, which it refers to, says it only applies to a single model.
    Clearly brotherhood of psykers works differantly, but I would guess that dreadknights and other single models don't have that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tome View Post
    Not really.
    That was a joke. I prefer not to use smilies due to finding them obnoxious when other posters use them.
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  29. - Top - End - #59
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Now that we are starting to bring a new theme and leaving the tyranids cant beat mech behind.

    I finaly got my hands in lots of new miniatures thanks of a fried who traveled to the USA. He wanted to start playing too so he bought the GK codex, a box of 5 gks, a box of 5 gk terminatours, a rhyno, a vindicare assasin and castellan crowe.

    We want to make a viable list for him 1500pts we also have all the vainilla marines models from black reach and the sm battleforce to playtest in the meantime.

    He wants to play crowe and fit as much purifiers as he can, he hates the idea of being shor in numbers. he wants to get into assault as soon as he can but stormraven wont grow on trees.

    I want to convince him that a ryno/razorbak rush purifier list is not a bad idea. but he never played and since the rest of our gaming group plays eldar sam-hann, blood angel asault spam and tau suits. his only reasoning is "if i cant catch em i cant kill em so i wait to get shot to death"

    Any sugestions of how to play GK vs mobible armys?
    or any viable crowe+puris list?
    Last edited by pilvento; 2011-07-27 at 02:30 PM.
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  30. - Top - End - #60
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    well as far as the blood angels player goes, just wait for them to come to you. you don't have to worry about assaulting blood angels, they will do that for you. as for the eldar and tau players, why not focus on psycannons, dreadknights and las cannons. as someone mentioned before, the grey knights are a shooting heavy army. they rock in assaults, but they are just as deadly at long ranged combat. the good armor saves of the grey knights means that you will ignore most hits. i cant speak for eldar, but most tau AP 1, 2, and 3 guns are at most range 24", which means that if you're being shot at from that distance, then on the next turn, you can return fire with psibolt amo with deadly accuracy.
    Last edited by gabado; 2011-07-27 at 02:44 PM.

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