Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

[iyaerP]

Let's take a step back here. I think the real question is why did we let one of our indispensible elite slots get within assaulting range of a guard infantry blob?

[Hootman]

Let's take a step back here. I think the real question is why did we let one of our indispensible elite slots get within assaulting range of a guard infantry blob?

Good point. To maneuver that many men so close to the Tau lines undetected....

It would take some kind of tactical genius...

[Hawkfrost000]

It would take some kind of tactical genius...

CRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDD DDDDDDDDDD!

yes

DM

[Cheesegear]

My dakka baal predator disagrees with you

Dakka Baal Predator...Like, one with Assault Cannon and Heavy Bolters for 145 Points?

But, regular Predators with Heavy Bolters are 100 points. Am I to understand you already use 3 [Stormravens/Dreadnoughts/Devastators/Vindicators] and that's why you're forced to run Baal Predators?

[Tarinaky]

Dakka Baal Predator...Like, one with Assault Cannon and Heavy Bolters for 145 Points?

But, regular Predators with Heavy Bolters are 100 points. Am I to understand you already use 3 [Stormravens/Dreadnoughts/Devastators/Vindicators] and that's why you're forced to run Baal Predators?

Regular Predators don't have Assault Cannons or Scout.

[Cheesegear]

Regular Predators don't have Assault Cannons or Scout.

It's a Dakkapred. It doesn't have Multi-Meltas or Flamestorm. It doesn't need Scout. It doesn't have Descent of Angels, so outflanking it without either of the above is also Sad Face.

Second, it's still a Predator with SA11, it doesn't want to be anywhere near within 24" range of an enemy unless it can kill it (Multi-Meltas or Flamestorms).

And cover saves makes all Rending near-worthless.

[Tarinaky]

It's a Dakkapred. It doesn't have Multi-Meltas or Flamestorm. It doesn't need Scout. It doesn't have Descent of Angels, so outflanking it without either of the above is also Sad Face.

Second, it's still a Predator with SA11, it doesn't want to be anywhere near within 24" range of an enemy unless it can kill it (Multi-Meltas or Flamestorms).

And cover saves makes all Rending near-worthless.

My experiences of using a Baal contradicts more or less everything you just said except for the remark about outflanking.

[Cheesegear]

My experiences of using a Baal contradicts more or less everything you just said except for the remark about outflanking.

Emphasis mine.

Depends on your meta-game. In my slightly competitive meta-game, there aren't many people running Orks, Tyranids or non-Mech Guard (because the first two aren't really competitive and the latter is too expensive), so a Pred with Assault Cannons and Heavy Bolters is going to be near-useless, especially when you can get two MM/HF Land Speeders for less. And for almost the same cost you can get a decent squad of Bikers and two Meltaguns.
(Apparently Blood Angel Bikers are very good, as has been brought to my attention a couple of times, though I've never actually seen them in play).

In my experience, DakkaPreds for Blood Angels are terrible. Mainly because Blood Angels already kill Infantry plenty well as-is and your points and slots spent on DakkaPreds can be better spent on other things.

So, when all's said and done, I resort to my new mantra that I've been repeating; If you need them, great. If not, terrible.

[Ricky S]

It was more of a joke than anything cheesegear. The baal predator is a part of my "non" competitive army that I posted up a few pages ago. I orignally bought it simply because I love the imagery of thousands of rounds being expended and the shells flying around forming piles around the tank. I don't know if I so much need it, as I want it.

But...
With the current metagame as it is, my dakkapred is amazing! There is an abundance of all infantry armies with no vehicles at all. This has lead my win to loss ration to skyrocket as no one is equipped to deal with a heap of armour.

Here is a rundown of what it has killed so far.

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Game 1
-8 devastators (one whole squad and three from another)
-5 assault marines

Game 2
-14 thousand sons.
-5 noise marines

Game 3
-Leman russ
-Couple of guardsmen

Game 4
-13 noise marines
-sorceror
-greater summoned demon

Game 5
-4 harlequins
-3 pathfinders

It really is an absolute beast on the tabletop!

I am interested to know what sort of armies are at your local store? Also which store do you play at? I play in the city store.

Armies that are played in the store frequently:

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-Infantry Tau x 2
-Infantry orks x 2
-Infantry chaos x 2
-Infantry blood angels
-Infantry space marines x 2
-Infantry guard
-Infantry Nids x 2 (cause you know, they have to be)
-Infantry eldar
-Infantry grey knights

-Hybrid Tau

-Mechanised chaos
-Mechanised guard x 2
-And me, mechanised blood angels

[BoSheck]

Armies that are played in the store frequently:

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-Infantry Tau x 2
-Infantry orks x 2
-Infantry chaos x 2
-Infantry blood angels
-Infantry space marines x 2
-Infantry guard
-Infantry Nids x 2 (cause you know, they have to be)
-Infantry eldar
-Infantry grey knights

-Hybrid Tau

-Mechanised chaos
-Mechanised guard x 2
-And me, mechanised blood angels

I'm kind of envious of your diverse looking metagame :(
Our local store looks something like this:

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5x Ultramarines (or codex space marines. you know.)
3-4x Blood Angels
2x Grey Knights
2x Space Wolves
1x Black Templars
2x Chaos Space Marines
2x Necron
1x Tau
1x Eldar
2x Guard
1x Tyranids

[Hawkfrost000]

wow you guys have big Metagames

mine is the following:

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1x Codex: Space Marines
1x Chaos Space Marines
1x Dark Eldar
2x Space Wolves
1x Blood Angels
1x Tyranids
1x Black Templars
1x Grey Knights

[Tome]

Mine is:

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Orks x3
Dark Eldar x1
Eldar x1
Guard x2
Daemons x2
Chaos Space Marines x1
Space Marines x5+
Black Templars x1
Grey Knights x1
Tau x1

With almost all of them being mostly foot armies. The Orks, CSM and Guard are all mostly mechanised. Some of the SM lists are hybrids.

[gabado]

i'm thinking about adding a unit of banshees to my eldar force (primarily dire avengers and pathfinders). i was looking at the equipment options for the exarch and i can't decide which one to go with. i'm not really interested in getting an executioner blade, but the triskele and the mirrorswords look equally good. the triskele has only 3 attacks on a charge, but it can be used during the shooting phase, giving the squad some decent anti power armor shooting attacks. that being said, it's only S3, meaning that i won't get many wounds against space marines or crisis suits (the two units i would be using it on most). the mirrorswords however take away the exarch's shurikan pistol, but they bring her attacks on a charge up to 5. i'm split here, i don't know which one is better, help.

[Craftworld]

i'm thinking about adding a unit of banshees to my eldar force (primarily dire avengers and pathfinders). i was looking at the equipment options for the exarch and i can't decide which one to go with. i'm not really interested in getting an executioner blade, but the triskele and the mirrorswords look equally good. the triskele has only 3 attacks on a charge, but it can be used during the shooting phase, giving the squad some decent anti power armor shooting attacks. that being said, it's only S3, meaning that i won't get many wounds against space marines or crisis suits (the two units i would be using it on most). the mirrorswords however take away the exarch's shurikan pistol, but they bring her attacks on a charge up to 5. i'm split here, i don't know which one is better, help.

I personally love using the Mirror Swords because when doom is involved those five attacks do some real damage. But remember to have your farseer nearby to help out...people will target banshees like a snake targets mice.

[gabado]

I personally love using the Mirror Swords because when doom is involved those five attacks do some real damage. But remember to have your farseer nearby to help out...people will target banshees like a snake targets mice.

i was thinking that, but having an ap 2 assault 3 weapon is really nice.

i was also planning to have my farseer roll with a squad of warlocks, his personal psychically attuned death posy.

[Cheesegear]

i was also planning to have my farseer roll with a squad of warlocks, his personal psychically attuned death posy.

Seer Councils have been losing ground in the competitive meta-game for some reason. I don't quite know why, though I'm fairly certain it has something to do with Grey Knights and how a single Mindstrike Missile can wipe out the whole unit and if any model with Psyk-Out Grenades even looks at you funny you're in trouble. In other words I know exactly why Seer Councils are Sad Face now.
Obviously, if those things aren't problems for you, then Seer Councils are fine.

[Tome]

i'm thinking about adding a unit of banshees to my eldar force (primarily dire avengers and pathfinders). i was looking at the equipment options for the exarch and i can't decide which one to go with. i'm not really interested in getting an executioner blade, but the triskele and the mirrorswords look equally good. the triskele has only 3 attacks on a charge, but it can be used during the shooting phase, giving the squad some decent anti power armor shooting attacks. that being said, it's only S3, meaning that i won't get many wounds against space marines or crisis suits (the two units i would be using it on most). the mirrorswords however take away the exarch's shurikan pistol, but they bring her attacks on a charge up to 5. i'm split here, i don't know which one is better, help.

Banshees are Fleet, no? Chances are good that if they're not in a transport, they'll be running towards something to kill. Better to have the extra assault power.

[Erloas]

i'm thinking about adding a unit of banshees to my eldar force (primarily dire avengers and pathfinders). i was looking at the equipment options for the exarch and i can't decide which one to go with. i'm not really interested in getting an executioner blade, but the triskele and the mirrorswords look equally good. the triskele has only 3 attacks on a charge, but it can be used during the shooting phase, giving the squad some decent anti power armor shooting attacks. that being said, it's only S3, meaning that i won't get many wounds against space marines or crisis suits (the two units i would be using it on most). the mirrorswords however take away the exarch's shurikan pistol, but they bring her attacks on a charge up to 5. i'm split here, i don't know which one is better, help.

The option you have eliminated is by far the best. Extra attacks aren't what banshees need, 2 more attacks aren't going to make or break one of their assaults and the triskele is essentially just a few more attacks that only happen if you don't need to fleet because it has to be directed at the same target you are assaulting.
What banshees are missing is high strength attacks, exactly what the executioner blade gives. 6 attacks at str3, even with doom, isn't going to come out ahead of of 3 str6 attacks against anything but t3, and how often is that going to be an issue? Wounding on a 2+ is 4 times better then wounding on a 5+ so even with twice as many attacks you're still 2x better off with str6, and doom just makes the extra attacks slightly worse. And on the chance you get assaulted by something T5/6 its a lot better to have the str6, or if you don't have anything to charge but a vehicle, at least you have a reasonable chance of hurting AV10.

[gabado]

thanks guys, i think i'll try playing a few games with the different weapons before making my decision. i am currently leaning towards the excecutioner, courtecy of erloas's advice. but i'll wait to see which one best fits my meta. thanks guys.

[Mattarias, King.]

So... If anyone gives a white about the new SoB stuff and trying to do stuff with it...

In terms of tactics.. How insanely stupid would a list containing 9 Penitent Engines and 30 Repentia (in borrowed rhinos) sound?

...No, my thoughts for the list don't really extend past that, but I figure at least my opponent's reaction would be amusing.


...Also yeah, no, this is not a competitive list, by any stretch. ...I think.

[Ricky S]

I like the sound of your army but it would require a lot of cover for it to be effective. If you face a gunline army you will be blasted apart before you can get anywhere near them. Penitent engines are pretty fragile.

[Mattarias, King.]

I like the sound of your army but it would require a lot of cover for it to be effective. If you face a gunline army you will be blasted apart before you can get anywhere near them. Penitent engines are pretty fragile.

Yyeaahh.. I figure the rest of my army would have to be mech of some sort, to set up a shield wall of sorts. Using smoke, of course.

...As a sidenote, maybe it's my luck, but that 6++ save on vehicles? Pretty good. It's, well, SOMETHING for when I forget to pop smoke. (Read: All the time.)

[Hootman]

Apparently they've altered the 'Ard Boyz scenarios. Or, as far as I can tell, just made the first one Pitched Battle instead of Dawn of War (meaning that there is NO DoW right now, whee!). Still hoping to grab some critique on my updated ork list before the weekend.

ORKS, 2500 POINTS, 'ARD BOYZ SEMI-FINALS

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HQ
Thraka, 225pts

Big Mek, 120pts
Powerklaw & Shoota, Kustom Force Field, 'Eavy Armor, Bosspole


ELITES
Kommandos 10, 215pts
-2 Burnas
-Boss Snikrot

Lootas 8, 120pts

Nobs on Warbikes 8, 480pts

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1. PK
2. PK, Cybork
3. BC
4. BC, Cybork
5. Waaagh! Banner
6. Cybork
8. X
9. Painboy

TROOPS
Boyz 18, 143pts
-Sluggas & Choppas
-Nob with Powerklaw

Boyz 18, 143pts
-Sluggas & Choppas
-Nob with Powerklaw

Boyz 20, 170pts
-Shootas, 2 Big Shootas
-Nob with Powerklaw, Bosspole

Boyz 20, 170pts
-Shootas, 2 Big Shootas
-Nob with Powerklaw, Bosspole

Boys 30, 215pts
-Sluggas & Choppas
-Nob with Powerklaw

Deff Dread, 105pts
-Skorcha, DCCW, Armor Plates

HEAVY SUPPORT
Battlewagon, 145pts
-Deff Rolla, Red Paint Job, Grot Riggers, Armor Plates, Boarding Plank, 2 Big Shootas

Battlewagon, 140pts
-Deff Rolla, Red Paint Job, Armor Plates, Boarding Plank, 2 Big Shootas

Looted Wagon, 60pts
-Skorcha, Red Paint Job, Reinforced Ram

TOTAL: 2451, not sure what to do from here. Biker? Misc bodies? Wargear?

[HalfTangible]

Is there a rule against using boltguns and chainswords on the same model? I put my DC together that way cuz i thought it looked cooler but looking at the rules Boltguns and Bolt Pistols have different ranges...

[Ogremindes]

Is there a rule against using boltguns and chainswords on the same model? I put my DC together that way cuz i thought it looked cooler but looking at the rules Boltguns and Bolt Pistols have different ranges...

Ruleswise that's the same as having just the bolter.

[Teln]

The chainsword is a close combat weapon either way, right? Shouldn't matter at all, unless you swapped the CCW for the bolter.

[Ogremindes]

The chainsword is a close combat weapon either way, right? Shouldn't matter at all, unless you swapped the CCW for the bolter.

Even then, a plain close combat weapon does nothing unless paired with a pistol or another CCW.

[Hootman]

Even then, a plain close combat weapon does nothing unless paired with a pistol or another CCW.

Actually, if the entry said something like "replace chainsword and/or bolt pistol with....a bolter", it CAN make a difference.

One marine has sword/bolter.
Another has pistol/bolter.

These two are now differently wargeared, so you can assign wounds to them differently. Sure, it may not save you unit on its own, but if you combine it with enough other wargear, you can make musical wounds more easily/cheaply.

[HalfTangible]

Actually, if the entry said something like "replace chainsword and/or bolt pistol with....a bolter", it CAN make a difference.

One marine has sword/bolter.
Another has pistol/bolter.

These two are now differently wargeared, so you can assign wounds to them differently. Sure, it may not save you unit on its own, but if you combine it with enough other wargear, you can make musical wounds more easily/cheaply.

It only says that for Power weapons power fist and thunder hammer. Judging from the wargear list, pistol and bolter are interchangeable.

[Erloas]

Sure, it may not save you unit on its own, but if you combine it with enough other wargear, you can make musical wounds more easily/cheaply.

But musical wounds is really only of much help when you have multiple wound models. Sure it might make a difference if you have 3-4x as many wounds to assign as you have model and you might get lucky and have a few 1/2s hit the same model but there is no control over it and it doesn't happen all that often.