Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

[Cheesegear]

This stems from a minor disagreement at a megabattle where we couldn't decide if I could or could not deploy me tanks on the second floor of a small building.

Page 79. "Only one Infantry unit may occupy a building at one time."

Emphasis mine.

For Ruins - not 'Buildings' - you have Page 83. First paragraph.

Weird. I actually had to go looking for those rules because I always thought it was common sense...Glad to know that these rules actually exist.

[Trixie]

Question - can you take FNP foll on Perils wounds? If so, is the FNP re-rolled, like ++ saves, or goes normally?

[Cheesegear]

Question - can you take FNP foll on Perils wounds?

It's funny. Perils is a specific example under FNP. It's like. Right there. Have you read it?

[Trixie]

It's funny. Perils is a specific example under FNP. Maybe you should read it?

Funny story, I did. Our local translated version. Maybe you should read it?

[Cheesegear]

Funny story, I did. Our local translated version.

Fair enough.
You can't take FNP if you can't take a save.
Perils allows no save.

Where's the question?

[Trixie]

Fair enough.
You can't take FNP if you can't take a save.
Perils allows no save.

Where's the question?

The question was because I remembered the section was worded differently in the English book, and I wasn't sure if my memory is faulty, or if the rule works differently in our translation by mistake. I also didn't wanted answer biased by the tone my question, so I worded it as neurally as I could.

Thanks.

[Cheesegear]

or if the rule works differently in our translation by mistake.

...Wait...That happens?

[Penguinizer]

Page 79. "Only one Infantry unit may occupy a building at one time."

Emphasis mine.

For Ruins - not 'Buildings' - you have Page 83. First paragraph.

Weird. I actually had to go looking for those rules because I always thought it was common sense...Glad to know that these rules actually exist.

I to have some very weird and/or insane plans that may or may not make sense.

In this case it was mainly a space constraint.

[Trixie]

...Wait...That happens?

Yes, IIRC, there are 2-3 spots where plain text reading gives different interpretation than RAW in English book, which even resulted in small inter-tourney war and accusation of creating 'Polhammer', before most of the members agreed on country-wide FAQ based on English version (in no small part because they wanted to take part in European tourneys).

To make things more funny, translation of AoBR and Big book versions of the rules also differs, making rules different in 2 places, though that was probably fault of the editor, not translator.

[Hawkfrost000]

Are scything talons worth it for a full unit of genestealers and a broodlord?

Also, any advice for making a Genestealer centered not competitive but optimized force?

Thanks
DM

[evisiron]

...Wait...That happens?

Oh yeah. Apparently the German version has deployment listed as the likes of X" away instead of over X" away, making first turn charges much easier. Little but game changing things like that.

The American system is basically the same, but with funny pronunciations.

[Psychotic]

So I've been trying to think of ways to field a Deathwing Army, seeing as how I simply want to build relatively small force and paint it to an excellent standard.

Probably gonna run 4-5 Deathwing Squads, two Land Raiders and Belial with a Deathwing "Command Squad". Any suggestions on kitting out Deathwing Terminator squads other than:

3 Thunderhammer/Stormshields
1 Cyclone Missle Launcher
1 Chainfist

[Tome]

So I've been trying to think of ways to field a Deathwing Army, seeing as how I simply want to build relatively small force and paint it to an excellent standard.

Probably gonna run 4-5 Deathwing Squads, two Land Raiders and Belial with a Deathwing "Command Squad". Any suggestions on kitting out Deathwing Terminator squads other than:

3 Thunderhammer/Stormshields
1 Cyclone Missle Launcher
1 Chainfist

Yes, the guy with the Cyclone can have a TH/SS as well.

Beyond that, well, Deathwing works because it's a whole load of Hammernators. There's not exactly much you can add to it in terms of variety.

[Cheesegear]

Probably gonna run 4-5 Deathwing Squads, two Land Raiders and Belial with a Deathwing "Command Squad". Any suggestions on kitting out Deathwing Terminator squads other than:

3 Thunderhammer/Stormshields
1 Cyclone Missle Launcher
1 Chainfist

Drop the Land Raiders. Anything that even remotely looks like a vehicle is going to get shot at by anti-vehicle weapons.

Deathwing is currently one of the strongest 'casual' lists in the game (i.e; Rock up to FLGS, or RT Tournaments, or other PUGs), and doesn't do half bad in tournaments either.

All-Infantry is always solid. It also helps that Hammernators are one of the toughest Infantry units in the game, and you can make an army out of them. Who are Fearless. Shot-for-shot, Wraithguard poop on them. But, Hammernators can MSU.

400 points = 10 Hammernators
350 points + Warlock = 10 Wraithguard

They come out almost even. But, yeah, you have to spend ~400 points to make one Scoring unit, wheras Hammernators get two.

Anyway, I'm off-topic. Land Raiders. Any Land Raiders in the army automatically means less Terminators. And Hammernators are harder to kill than Land Raiders, it really doesn't matter if you have to footslog it. That's what the Cyclones are for.

[Talkkno]

What does everyone think of this draigowing list? I know theirs a lot of junk on the Librarian, should I cut it down to size to spend points elsewhere, or drop it all together for something else?

Spoiler

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1850pt Grey Knights
HQ:
Draigo-275 points

Librarian-195 points.
Force sword, 3 servo skulls, psybolt ammunition, digital weapons.
Psychic Powers: Might of Titan, Quicksilver, Sanctuary, Warp rift.

Troops
Paladins(x10) -690 points
Psybolt ammunition,
1. Psycannon, halberd
2. Psycannon, Master crafted halberd
3. Psycannon, sword
4. Psycannon, Master crafted sword
5. Halberd
6. Master crafted halberd
7. Sword
8. Warding stave
9. Daemonhammer
10. Master crafted Daemonhammer

Paladins(x10) -690 points
Psybolt ammunition,
1. Psycannon, halberd
2. Psycannon, Master crafted halberd
3. Psycannon, sword
4. Psycannon, Master crafted sword
5. Halberd
6. Master crafted halberd
7. Sword
8. Warding stave
9. Daemonhammer
10. Master crafted Daemonhammer

[Cheesegear]

What does everyone think of this draigowing list? I know theirs a lot of junk on the Librarian, should I cut it down to size to spend points elsewhere, or drop it all together for something else?

That's a lot of stuff on the Librarian.

A bigger concern is the second unit of Paladins. It doesn't need to be that big, and it doesn't need Musical Wounds. That's what your first is for. Five guys, two Psycannons and a Hammer is enough. Its job is to sit at home and shoot stuff.

You know you can afford Dreadknights, plural, for that cost right? Use Draigo to make them Scoring. I'll see if I can find my Draigo list.

[Talkkno]

That's a lot of stuff on the Librarian.

A bigger concern is the second unit of Paladins. It doesn't need to be that big, and it doesn't need Musical Wounds. That's what your first is for. Five guys, two Psycannons and a Hammer is enough. Its job is to sit at home and shoot stuff.

You know you can afford Dreadknights, plural, for that cost right? Use Draigo to make them Scoring. I'll see if I can find my Draigo list.

Would 3 psybolt dreads work in their instead?

[Trixie]

Would 3 psybolt dreads work in their instead?

Yes. But really, trim down on the gear. You have far too much mastercrafting/gear going on, 3-5 distinct groups to assign wounds to will suffice.

[Etcetera]

What's the best way to use D-Cannon? Their 24" range really hamstrings them, but in general should I move as far forward as possible with them in turn 1 for the extra range, or hang back and wait for the enemy to parking lot for half the game come to me.

Also, is the extra accuracy that comes from direct fire worth it, or should I hide them behind cover.

So far when I've used them they've died pretty quickly, although so far I've only used them in small games against shooting heavy armies, which may explain it.

[Tychris1]

So, after playing around with my army for a bit I've decided to expand my horizons. I want to include either and or both a Deathleaper and Lictor. What are some good uses of them/strategies?

[Timberwolf]

What's the best way to use D-Cannon? Their 24" range really hamstrings them, but in general should I move as far forward as possible with them in turn 1 for the extra range, or hang back and wait for the enemy to parking lot for half the game come to me.

Also, is the extra accuracy that comes from direct fire worth it, or should I hide them behind cover.

So far when I've used them they've died pretty quickly, although so far I've only used them in small games against shooting heavy armies, which may explain it.

The only time I've played against them, they were parked in cover and I hurricane boltered them with a turbo boosting Stormraven. The survivors ran off the board. Even though it didn't work that time, I think that's probably the way to play them, their toughness and armour isn't really up to surviving in the open and they will be a priority target for people like me who run big vehicles like gunships. The D cannon is nasty but it feels like a defensive choice.

[Cheesegear]

So, after playing around with my army for a bit I've decided to expand my horizons. I want to include either and or both a Deathleaper and Lictor. What are some good uses of them/strategies?

Deathleaper is...Not good. His only useful ability is reducing a character's Leadership by D3 - particularly Librarians. Other than that, everything else he does can be better done by two and a half Lictors. Unfortunately, Lictors aren't that good. So that isn't saying much. In fact, that says more about Deathleaper than it should.

Lictors have - funnily enough - the Lictor syndrome. They might be able to show up that close to an enemy, but they can't actually do anything. At T4 and only a 5+ save, it means they're rife bait for even regular Bolter fire. Stealth can help for a 3+ cover save. But, if you're doing what you're supposed to with a Lictor, you're probably close. Which means you're close enough for walking distance and a Flamer template, or Heavy Flamers off a Razorback. This applies to Deathleaper as well. The difference is that two/three Lictors can soak up more wounds, and have more attacks - which is why they're better than Deathleaper.

The best use of Lictors/Deathleaper is to have them arrive on Turn 2 on a 2+. That means you're duo-ing Swarmlord and a Hive Tyrant. An expensive prospect at the best of times. But, it's still plenty good if you know what you're doing. Unfortunately, so do the rest of your Reserves. And Pheramone Trail doesn't work if your Lictor wasn't on the board at the start of the turn. Which means all your Spores will still Scatter. If you can fluke it that your Spores arrive on Turn 3 instead, if you've hid your Lictors out of LoS and they've managed to survive a whole turn somehow, you can drop the rest of your Spores on them.

The other option is tunnels. To have your Mawloc land exactly on a unit works wonders. If you can work it so that your Lictors are in combat - and haven't died horribly yet - you can have your Mawloc land directly into the combat, due to the 'No Scatter' rules of Pheramone Trail, and the wording of Terror From The Deep, if you hit enemy models, you can mess up a combat, and push enemy models forwards, further into your Lictors, because they never got hit (right?) because a model may not be placed 1" away, you instantly win combat. Before your Movement phase, which means your Lictors are free to act.
Sounds awesome right? However, remember you need to get your Lictors to survive a whole turn, and your enemy has to be baited into combat with them, and your Lictors have to not die. And your Mawloc has to not arrive on the same turn.

Other than that; Trygon-tunnel is obvious.

Basically, Lictors are extraordinarily difficult to use. The slots - let alone points, in a Tyranids' army, slots are the important things - are better spent on literally any other choice except for Pyrovores. Ymgarl Genestealers don't have Lictor syndrome. Putting that out there.

[Hawkfrost000]

How good are Ymgarl's in general? also is it possible to make an effective 'stealer focused Tyranid list?

[Cheesegear]

How good are Ymgarl's in general? also is it possible to make an effective 'stealer focused Tyranid list?

Very. Sort of.

Genestealers are a lot like Khorne Berzerkers. They're amazing at what they do, unfortunately, it's not that easy to get them to do what they do. A Genestealer like - like a Khorne list - is only as good as it's support. Since you're Genestealers, you need Ymgarls. And you want those to rock up on Turn 2. Swarmlord and Hive Tyrant. Preferably the Hive Tyrant is a DakkaTyrant.

If you're using Ymgarls, you're not using Zoanthropes or Hive Guard. And, if you are using the latter, you're using less Ymgarls. Which is like not using Vanguard in a DoA list.

Like most 'Nid lists, your problems are vehicles. So you want two, maybe three Tyrannofexes. Your other option is Carnifii with Heavy Venom Cannons, but they're not as good. But they do cost less, which is important because Genestealers are expensive.

So, review;
Swarmlord - Expensive.
Hive Tyrant - Expensive. Especially with Tyrant Guard. Ditto for Swarmlord.
Ymgarls - Expensive.
Genestealers - Expensive.
Fast Attack is rubbish. Except for DSing Gargoyles.
Tyranno-Carni-fii - Expensive.

In short; Genestealers don't scale.

[Lord Blace]

So, after accumulating a hefty amount of Tyranids, I've decided to try my hand at Space Marines. Fluffing it to be my own chapter, of course.

Right now, I have:
Pedro of the Crimson Fists (got him for $5 )
Landraider Crusader/Redeemer
Terminator Assault Squad
30 Tactical Marines (10 of which I'll convert to sternguard)
3 Rhinos
1 Predator

Note: I haven't constructed anything yet except the predator and a couple of the terminators.

My goal is to get a competent (not necessarily competitive) 1500-1750 point army list. Any suggestions on where to go/what to get from here?
And of course, thanks in advance for the help!

[Ricky S]

So, after accumulating a hefty amount of Tyranids, I've decided to try my hand at Space Marines. Fluffing it to be my own chapter, of course.

Right now, I have:
Pedro of the Crimson Fists (got him for $5 )
Landraider Crusader/Redeemer
Terminator Assault Squad
30 Tactical Marines (10 of which I'll convert to sternguard)
3 Rhinos
1 Predator

Note: I haven't constructed anything yet except the predator and a couple of the terminators.

My goal is to get a competent (not necessarily competitive) 1500-1750 point army list. Any suggestions on where to go/what to get from here?
And of course, thanks in advance for the help!

Combi meltas on every sternguard. 5pts each is a bargain for what they can do. Drop pods are great for them if you can get it.

Crusader is way better than the redeemer. Sure the redeemer can kill marines easily but it needs to get insanely close to do it. Also because you can machine spirit one weapon and fire one normally, you can drive 6" and fire everything (because hurricane bolters are defensive weapons) or drive 12" and fire one weapon and the bolters.

Tactical marines are actually pretty rubbish. They are great for holding objectives but apart from that they are pretty useless. So dont get more than you have now.

[FlyingScanian]

Also because you can machine spirit one weapon and fire one normally, you can drive 6" and fire everything (because hurricane bolters are defensive weapons) or drive 12" and fire one weapon and the bolters.

Ah, not quite. If you move 6", you can fire one weapon ordinarily (say, the Assault Cannon), as well as any defensive, and one additional (pintle multi-melta) due to the machine spirit, ergo all weapons. So far, so good. However, when moving 12", you can only ever fire one weapon, thanks to the machine spirit (0 normally, including defensive weapons).

[Zorg]

I'm just going to drop this image in here:

Spoiler

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Announcement supposedly due on Halloween. Very appropriate date if true.

[HalfTangible]

I'm just going to drop this image in here:

Spoiler

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Announcement supposedly due on Halloween. Very appropriate date if true.

Like necrons weren't powerful enough, now their lord gets a hoverchair

[Zorg]

A polish portal Cytadela.pl posted very interesting news today:

Some time ago I mentioned that new Necrons will appear in October's White Dwarf - I just got a confirmation of that info from a reliable source!

In the upcoming WD you will see some new units:
- Triarch Pretorians/Lychguard - think Ushabti with Grey Knight-like spears / glavies

- new Immortals

- new Destroyers

- Deathmarks - Necron snipers

- new HQ'a / characters - Overlord and Cryptec, those will be in finecast

- Command Barge - with a Lord on the throne (pictured above?)

for those in Poland, here is the link.
http://www.cytadela.pl/modules.php?n...ticle&sid=1766