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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    After reading my own guide on Mech Guard again, and one *headdesk* later, I realise that I'm an idiot. Since I, myself once stated that Demolishers are far superior.
    Well, yeah. But your opponent will also blow those up as rapidly as possible for that reason. But I approve of Demolishers with multimeltas; they do work when they can be gotten into position.

    As for primaris psykers, no, they don't have psychic hoods; psykers absolutely ruin my day because Guard has no psyker defense. As I said, I've never played one, but I've had this urge to stick one in a big squad of Ogryns and use Nightshroud to make the enemy not shoot them while they trudge across the field and then have a force weapon inside the assaulty mob when they get there, but as I have neither a psyker nor Ogryns, that experiment will have to wait.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    I thought vehicles couldn't fire any other weapons if they used an Ordnance weapon? Why bother giving the Russes sponsons?
    Last edited by Tarinaky; 2011-07-29 at 06:46 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarinaky View Post
    I thought vehicles couldn't fire any other weapons if they used an Ordnance weapon? Why bother giving the Russes sponsons?
    Because Russes can. While on the move. Specifically, they may fire the turret weapon in addition to any other weapon they're allowed to fire, even if it's ordnance. They're main battle tanks, not those air-droppable toys the Marines play with.
    Last edited by Renegade Paladin; 2011-07-29 at 06:51 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    That leaves me with 550 pts. Any ideas?
    It's a shame that Tomb Spiders are also a Heavy slot - although you have a lot of Troops for a Necron army, it's still a frighteningly small number of models!

    Still, my own recommendation would be a big unit of Pariahs. While you have a lot of competent MEQs with good guns, you're fairly vulnerable to assault and a dozen-or-so more Warscythes would fix that.
    In the same vein, you have no 'bomb' unit - I always find it good to have one powerful, deadly unit that can troubleshoot whatever my opponent surprises me with, regardless of what it is.
    Terminators or Wraithguard? s5 power weapons say 'No'. Triple Rune Priests or Grey Knights? Start running, boys. Land Raider Spam? As if Gauss weapons weren't enough you now have 12 "Monstrous Creatures" chasing them down.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    It's a shame that Tomb Spiders are also a Heavy slot - although you have a lot of Troops for a Necron army, it's still a frighteningly small number of models!
    Destroyers are fast attack units aren't they? It's the heavy destroyers that are Heavy Support. That's why I sugested monoliths.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    Still, my own recommendation would be a big unit of Pariahs. While you have a lot of competent MEQs with good guns, you're fairly vulnerable to assault and a dozen-or-so more Warscythes would fix that.
    In the same vein, you have no 'bomb' unit - I always find it good to have one powerful, deadly unit that can troubleshoot whatever my opponent surprises me with, regardless of what it is.
    Terminators or Wraithguard? s5 power weapons say 'No'. Triple Rune Priests or Grey Knights? Start running, boys. Land Raider Spam? As if Gauss weapons weren't enough you now have 12 "Monstrous Creatures" chasing them down.
    Meh, pariahs don't look very hot to me. They don't have WBB , and altough they ignore invulnerable saves, they have none of their own. With just one attack and 3 I, they'll also be striking last against most other elite units, and then they aren't geting much attacks out.
    Last edited by deuterio12; 2011-07-29 at 06:57 AM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Pariah have quite the interesting history - for a long time, they were decreed to be one of the worst units in all of WH40k, due to being costly, not being Necrons, and having low Initiative on a primarily melee unit.

    Then people started to realize that they are the perfect counter to a huge part of the current metagame. For starters, they eat Hammernators for breakfast. Anything that counters Hammernators hard is automatically worth it.

    They require a fair bit of finesse to use, though. For starters, while they are super-durable with their T5, they still need to be deployed with caution, so they actually survive in sufficient number to do their job when the enemy elites they need to counter roll around.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Winterwind just said most of what I was going to, Pariahs can be useful, but you've got to be skillfull or plain lucky to get any use out of them. As nasty as Warscythes are they're no good if the opponent can just stay away from them, which is quite easily done against infantry with no transport options.

    As for Squark's list, its about as solid as Necrons get. For the last 550 points you could look at some Tomb Spiders to accompany the Destroyer units, Immortals, or some Heavy Destroyers for anti-tank. I know Gauss can shake stuff, but you need things that can wreck vehicles semi-reliably as well. I'd avoid Monoliths, they have the damage output of a wet flannel and again can be ignored in favouring of killing enough Warriors to phase out.

    The second Lord could do with a Phase Shifter too, if points allow.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Don't hammernators usually mix some lighting claw terminators to help slice trough infantry?

    Well against a squad of just hammernators pariahs could be quite good yes, but then it depends heavily on your metagame. Against horde armies or even stuff like blood angel's assault squad spam, I don't really seem them doing much.

    Heavy destroyers on the other hand are an excellent offensive choice, and the necron's only reliable way of blowing up vehicles at range.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    Destroyers are fast attack units aren't they? It's the heavy destroyers that are Heavy Support. That's why I sugested monoliths.
    You're correct, I seem to have misread 'Necron' as 'Heavy' for some reason

    In which case, I renew my vote for Spyders. When everyone else in the game loses their last wound, they go down and they stay there (apart from Justicar Thawn, of course). One of Necrons' biggest assets is that they get back up again, and you should encourage/exploit that to it's fullest.

    If you can also take some Pariahs, then at least consider taking them. Even though they have their drawbacks, the simple fact is that that they're carrying s5 Power Weapons in a game that his heavily populated by T4 3+ opponents - A lot of whom are now psychic to boot. Some Codices don't get the option to have any of those things, let alone all three in one place!
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    So yesterday I played my first game in... quite a while.
    It was supposed to be 2500 points, but by the time I had all of the models I could legally take I was only as 2295 (could have had 2450 if I could take a 3rd HQ) and I had all of my FO slots filled but one Elite (not having the models for it).
    The thing was that most of my units couldn't have been increased much. Everything but the guardians, jetbikes, vypers and war walkers were at the max unit size. I guess 2500 points wasn't really planed for people to not take a few really expensive units like (for eldar) a seer council on bikes and/or wraithguard. I'm just glad we didn't roll up annihilation because I had 18 kill points on the table.

    I was playing against codex marines, pitched battle and capture and control. At deployment I thought I had it pretty much won. He was mostly piled into one corner but only had 15 marines on his base, and he only had 4 units in transports to try and get to my base but they weren't set up to get there quickly (one having to cross the entire board, 2 having to cross 2/3s of it and only one with a direct shot). And being rhinos and razorbacks I didn't think they would live long enough to get that far.

    It didn't help that I stole the initiative. Having a fortuned wave serpent with the flat out save and full of banshees sitting beside the building his base was in on the first turn was not a good start for him. I was also able to move almost my entire army up far enough the first turn that he couldn't move many of his tanks without giving me side and rear armor shots.

    He sort of just turtled up after that, with only one rhino moving forward much. I didn't manage to open up any transports.

    Second turn the banshees get out (and since the transport didn't move yet that turn) jump into the building and tear up some marines. I fail again to do much to the vehicles with a lot of poor rolling. And I forget about the fact that his marines can actually get out of their transports, so I don't move my jetbikes back.
    Not realizing one unit of marines wasn't actually marines but the guys in artificer armor and all wielding power weapons I find that my scorpions are in a bad position. They at least tie them up for a full turn and get them out of their transport.
    He drops a unit of assault marines with a librarian right by his base to help protect it, and his librarian takes out more then half of my warp spiders.

    3rd turn I lay waste to the assault marines, whittle down a few other units, and finish clearing off his base with my banshees.

    I'll shorten up the end, the banshees continue their reign of terror, taking part in killing at least some of 4 different units of marines, a rhino and a demolisher (well the farseer did those, but the banshees were with him). My guardians finish walking across the board to his base (he gave them no priority until it was pretty much too late). His guys in artificer armor get close to my base, but being in cover even if the game had gone 6-7 rounds (we ended at 5 because it was way too late) they would have had a hard time reaching my base in time and he had no way of even contesting his own. Its questionable as to whether or not they would have lived through another 2 rounds of shooting as well. We both had a few units left, but most of his where transports.


    I'm out of practice for sure, there are a lot of things I could have done better in movement. Once again my opponent doesn't try for the objectives early enough to make a difference. And of course being a very mobile army makes my general opponents play entirely too defensively and let me dictate the game.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by banjo1985 View Post
    Winterwind just said most of what I was going to, Pariahs can be useful, but you've got to be skillfull or plain lucky to get any use out of them. As nasty as Warscythes are they're no good if the opponent can just stay away from them, which is quite easily done against infantry with no transport options.

    As for Squark's list, its about as solid as Necrons get. For the last 550 points you could look at some Tomb Spiders to accompany the Destroyer units, Immortals, or some Heavy Destroyers for anti-tank. I know Gauss can shake stuff, but you need things that can wreck vehicles semi-reliably as well. I'd avoid Monoliths, they have the damage output of a wet flannel and again can be ignored in favouring of killing enough Warriors to phase out.

    The second Lord could do with a Phase Shifter too, if points allow.
    Phase shifters are 1 per army, sadly. Heavy destroyers are a definite possibility, though. And If I can find someone to lend me pariahs, I can use them, too. As is, I'll need to borrow 9 destroyers from someone.
    Last edited by Squark; 2011-07-29 at 12:20 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Discovery: the Games Workshop site no longer ships the Necrons Codex.

    Allow the mass guessing to commence.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Tweaked list.
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    Necron Lord with Resurrection Orb, Destroyer Body, Phase Shifter, and Warscythe 210 pts
    Necron Lord with Warscythe Res Orb, Gaze of Flame, Lightning Field, and Warscythe 190 pts
    10 Necron Warriors 180 pts
    10 Necron Warriors 180 pts
    10 Necron Warriors 180 pts
    10 Necron Warriors 180 pts
    10 Necron Warriors 180 pts
    5 Necron Destroyers 250 pts
    5 Necron Destroyers 250 pts
    5 Necron Destroyers 250 pts
    3 Necron Heavy Destroyers 195 pts
    3 Necron heavy Destroyers 195 pts


    That leaves me with... 160 pts.

    As is, cutting 10 warriors won't give me the points for 10 Pariahs, which means I'd have to cut some wargear, too. Ideas?

    EDIT: Or I could just run 9 Pariahs instead, and give my Footslogger Lord a Phylactery. Thoughts?
    Last edited by Squark; 2011-07-29 at 01:47 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Final_Stand View Post
    Discovery: the Games Workshop site no longer ships the Necrons Codex.

    Allow the mass guessing to commence.
    Guessing? I thought it had been confirmed.

    This Autumn GW are going to release plastic Sisters of Battle models along with a "3.5" codex update (rather than an entirely new book), followed by Necrons next spring and then a proper SoB book next summer.

    .....Or did I imagine reading that somewhere? I don't think I did, but....
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    Guessing? I thought it had been confirmed.

    This Autumn GW are going to release plastic Sisters of Battle models along with a "3.5" codex update (rather than an entirely new book), followed by Necrons next spring and then a proper SoB book next summer.

    .....Or did I imagine reading that somewhere? I don't think I did, but....
    It's all been just rumours and hearsay though.
    So... Tired...

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    There are no new models thus far.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    A few questions.

    For starters, I run a Nids list and haven't acquired a fairly large army (2 Carnifi, a trygon, and hive tyrant are the only MC's I have) however I do plan on getting alot more units during December. One thing I plan on getting (although I might get it after) is the Tyranid Hierophant bio titan. I've heard several people claim "OMG, MOST WORTHLESS UNIT EVER!!!111!!!" and others say the complete opposite. I haven't played much apocolypse and I've only played about 10 games but I still want to atleast try apocolypse. So, I'd like to know the Giantitp communities opinion on the Hierophant.

    And secondly, since GW doesn't sell them I'm going to Forgeworld for my army after the tyranids. I'll be playing the Death Korps of Krieg (!!!) and wanted to know how they are balance/play style wise.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarinaky View Post
    I thought vehicles couldn't fire any other weapons if they used an Ordnance weapon? Why bother giving the Russes sponsons?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    Because Russes can.
    And that's why Leman Russes Battle and Demolisher Tanks are the second and third best non-Transport vehicles in the game. The best being a non-Blood Angel Predator because they're dirt cheap and don't have slot-competition.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tychris1 View Post
    A few questions.

    For starters, I run a Nids list and haven't acquired a fairly large army [...] I plan on getting (although I might get it after) is the Tyranid Hierophant bio titan. I've heard several people claim "OMG, MOST WORTHLESS UNIT EVER!!!111!!!" and others say the complete opposite.
    First, I have to question having a small army, yet still getting a Bio Titan. You could probably get multiple Trygons for about the same price, and the Formation for doing so isn't half bad.

    after the tyranids. I'll be playing the Death Korps of Krieg (!!!) and wanted to know how they are balance/play style wise.
    Unfortunately, Imperial Armour isn't my fortť - yet - but I'm working on it. As far as Death Korps goes, I've only got Siege of Vraks III, so I can't really tell you how the 'base list' for Krieg is, since I can only tell you about the Armoured Company. Which has Leman Russes for Troops. Yeah.

    Anyway, it's Imperial Armour; It's all broken. If you're playing a non-IA army you'll generally wipe the floor. If you're playing another IA army, it'll be sort of fair, depending on whether or not either of you are actually trying to break Imperial Armour.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

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    Necron Lord with Resurrection Orb, Destroyer Body, Phase Shifter, and Warscythe 210 pts
    Necron Lord with Warscythe Res Orb, Gaze of Flame, Lightning Field, and Warscythe 205 pts
    10 Necron Warriors 180 pts
    10 Necron Warriors 180 pts
    10 Necron Warriors 180 pts
    10 Necron Warriors 180 pts
    5 Necron Destroyers 250 pts
    5 Necron Destroyers 250 pts
    5 Necron Destroyers 250 pts
    3 Necron Heavy Destroyers 195 pts
    3 Necron heavy Destroyers 195 pts


    If I cut a squad of warriors, that leaves me with 240 points. The question is... What do I do with that?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Anyway, it's Imperial Armour; It's all broken. If you're playing a non-IA army you'll generally wipe the floor. If you're playing another IA army, it'll be sort of fair, depending on whether or not either of you are actually trying to break Imperial Armour.
    Wait, what?! What, exactly, is this based on? True, there are some broken Forge World stuff. Can you, with a straight face, say that GW hasn't done the same (or much worse, for that matter)?

    Secondly, the DK "normal" army list is available to download from Forge worlds site ( http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/News/Downloads.html ).

    Thirdly, standard DK is basically infantry guard, with somewhat more expensive infantry (woopie, WS4 guardsmen...), but cheap-ish artillery, and you can combine squad with infantry squads AND heavy weapon squads.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Anyway, it's Imperial Armour; It's all broken. If you're playing a non-IA army you'll generally wipe the floor. If you're playing another IA army, it'll be sort of fair, depending on whether or not either of you are actually trying to break Imperial Armour.
    I have to question that, actually. Admittedly, the only IA army list I've studied in detail is the Elysian drop troops one, but it didn't strike me as all that powerful. Wooo, deep striking everything. Except it's all still Guardsmen, and they don't have tanks. Or Astropaths.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    That deepstriking thing actually sounds rather scary against a tyranid player. Deep strike right ontop of Synapse creatures, pound them with weapons, and then just watch as the other creatures spasm around and panick.

    Of course, orks would make them cry.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tychris1 View Post
    That deepstriking thing actually sounds rather scary against a tyranid player. Deep strike right ontop of Synapse creatures, pound them with weapons, and then just watch as the other creatures spasm around and panick.

    Of course, orks would make them cry.
    Guard doesn't need that to deal with Tyranids. And the Elysians did canonically lose hard against Orks in the Kastorel-Novem raid, so...
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    Guard doesn't need that to deal with Tyranids. And the Elysians did canonically lose hard against Orks in the Kastorel-Novem raid, so...
    Lore and Mechanics are two different things. An imperial guard force entirely in armor would be bombarded from orbit, for example.
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  25. - Top - End - #115
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by HalfTangible View Post
    Lore and Mechanics are two different things. An imperial guard force entirely in armor would be bombarded from orbit, for example.
    By Tyranids? The hive mind doesn't operate that way; it wants the fleshy bits intact and doesn't care how many drones it loses. Besides, there are all sorts of reasons why it wouldn't be, starting with the fact that most Guard deployments are offensives against rebellious worlds that don't have spaceborne assets at all.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Good point, considering all the heavy weapons they have at there disposal.

    Anyway, do nemesis force weapons cause instant death? I was playing against a GK player yesterday and my swarmlord charged into his terminators with force weapons and banner. I asked him if they had anything special about them and he replied that they were power weapons so I charged him forward willy nilly. Upon recieving 2 wounds he says "Oh wait, I forgot, they're force weapons that cause instant death" and proceeds to knock my swarm tyrant over. I stare at him with my jaw open and tell him "Wait, that can't be right. And even if it was I wouldn've run my swarmlord as far away from them and just have my hormagaunts gang up on them if it did." someone then said "Don't you have to take a psyker test to activate them?" until the GK player said "The banner auto passes the test". He decided that since he didn't inform me that it would stay as a power weapon instead of insta death weapon. The experience was kind of annoying but I atleast proceeded to instantly kill the entire squad when I hit back on the second round of combat so I was a little happy about it. Still, how much of that was true and how much was the GK player just not knowing what he was doing?(He didn't seem to know his army very well due to always having to go look through the book).
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  27. - Top - End - #117
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Anyway, it's Imperial Armour; It's all broken. If you're playing a non-IA army you'll generally wipe the floor. If you're playing another IA army, it'll be sort of fair, depending on whether or not either of you are actually trying to break Imperial Armour.
    I'm going to have to join the chorus of "Really, this is definitely not true at all." Yes, there's some IA stuff that is beyond broken, like the Hades Breaching Drill and, to a lesser extent, Tarantula turrets and Earthshaker and Medusa Emplacements, plus a handful of things for other armies I'm not thinking of right now, but the majority of IA stuff really isn't all that impressive. Death Korps in particular really aren't broken at all unless you do nothing but spam Thud Guns, Breaching Drills and Earthshaker Emplacements; overall, at best they're about as good as the regular Guard codex right now, and a lot of their stuff is actually quite a bit worse than what you'd find in regular Guard.

    On the more firsthand side, I'm going to a Doubles tourney pretty soon, 1250 points per player. The original plan was to team up my Tau with a friend's Necrons, primarily so we could name ourselves the Alliance of Bottom-tier Armies, but the TO ruled that when a Necron army phases out their team automatically loses to a Massacre result, no matter how many of the other player's units remain, so nobody sane will bring 'Crons. Back to the drawing board...
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  28. - Top - End - #118
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    By Tyranids? The hive mind doesn't operate that way; it wants the fleshy bits intact and doesn't care how many drones it loses. Besides, there are all sorts of reasons why it wouldn't be, starting with the fact that most Guard deployments are offensives against rebellious worlds that don't have spaceborne assets at all.
    I meant against Space Marines or Chaos Marines, neither of which have a mechanic for that, but both of whom have lore that allows it.
    Last edited by HalfTangible; 2011-07-30 at 02:39 PM.
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  29. - Top - End - #119
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tychris1 View Post
    ~things~
    The GK player was entirely correct. All GKs are armed with Nemesis Force Weapons, which do what they say on the tin. What's more, the Brotherhood Banner causes the squad bearing it to automatically pass tests to activate his force weapons.

    He, of course, should have told you beforehand, but he did everything correctly once he remembered.

    EDIT: By the way, you sound like an awfully poor sport there. The GK player may have not known his codex very well, but not only was he right, he tried to make up for his mistake.
    Last edited by Incomp; 2011-07-30 at 02:46 PM.

  30. - Top - End - #120
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tychris1 View Post
    Wait, that can't be right.
    Next time ask if you can borrow their codex to look up their army. :P

    And unfortunately this kind of stuff you really need to be on-top of. Rule #1: Players suck. Corollary to Rule #1: Newbies suck :p

    I don't have the book to hand but I'm pretty sure stuff like Banners normally only affect Morale rather than Leadership. (And thus don't apply to psykers)
    Last edited by Tarinaky; 2011-07-30 at 02:45 PM.
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