Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

[Ninjaman]

Tyranids 2000pts

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2 Tervigon: catalyst, adranal glands, toxin sacs, cluster spines

2x2 Hive guard
3 Zoanthropes: mycetic spore: cluster spines

2x30 Hormagaunts
2x9 Genestealers with broodlord

Trygon

Tyrannofex: rupture cannon, stinger salvo, desiccator larvae

I got 10 points left, i could get talons for my tervigons.

Thoughts?

[Closet_Skeleton]

I don't remember needing a mycetic spore for the zoanthropes. I never fought basilisks so I found I was in range of most things I needed to lance. Long range tanks aren't a problem anyway if they have low rear armour and you have genestealers.

Genestealers either need to be massive groups of 16-20 with broodlords or small groups of 8-10 Ymgarl genestealers.

Its probably a fine list if you're going up against the mech heavy armies I thankfully never had to fight myself but I wouldn't use that kind of list if if I could help it.

I'm not sure hormagaunts are ever worth it when you have tervigons that make termagants better in combat. You're probably better with more expensive termagants with better guns to supplement your infinite flesh borers. I used bad toxin/adrenal termagants that I actually paid the upgrade price for and never found that I needed more attacks or rerolls.

[Silverlich]

So, n00b rules question:


Slow and Purposeful specifies that the unit always counts as moving through difficult terrain. However, does this mean it has to take a dangerous terrain test when deep striking? Also, does Slow and Purposeful allow shooting or assaults from deep strike?

[Renegade Paladin]

Nothing allows assault from Deep Strike unless it explicitly says so, like the Heroic Intervention rule for vanguard veterans or the Lucius pattern drop pod. I don't know about the rest, but it would be kind of silly if the unit had to take dangerous terrain tests deep striking just for having S&P.

[Cheesegear]

However, does this mean it has to take a dangerous terrain test when deep striking?

No. It probably could. But, at this point in time units that do that sort of thing (Obliterators and Nurgle daemons) are near-universally agreed upon on what they do.
Similar to Sternguard ammo and Combi-Weapons. It probably shouldn't. But nearly everyone on the planet will agree that it works like people think it does.

Also, does Slow and Purposeful allow shooting or assaults from deep strike?

Models can shoot from a Deep Strike anyway, however they count as moving. However, S&P also grants Relentless, if that should help (and on Obliterators it totally does).

Models can never Assault from a Deep Strike. S&P/Relentless doesn't change this. You need a special rule out of your Codex to do so.

[Ninjaman]

I don't remember needing a mycetic spore for the zoanthropes. I never fought basilisks so I found I was in range of most things I needed to lance. Long range tanks aren't a problem anyway if they have low rear armour and you have genestealers.

Okay i'll remove the spore.

Genestealers either need to be massive groups of 16-20 with broodlords or small groups of 8-10 Ymgarl genestealers.

Why? Also who takes Ymgarl? They take up an elite slot.

Its probably a fine list if you're going up against the mech heavy armies I thankfully never had to fight myself but I wouldn't use that kind of list if if I could help it.

It also got a flamer 2 largeblasts (if i drop the pod) and a ton of close combat attacks. So i think it is quite decent against infantry too.

I'm not sure hormagaunts are ever worth it when you have tervigons that make termagants better in combat. You're probably better with more expensive termagants with better guns to supplement your infinite flesh borers. I used bad toxin/adrenal termagants that I actually paid the upgrade price for and never found that I needed more attacks or rerolls.

Propperbly.

[Cheesegear]

Also who takes Ymgarl?

Everyone.

No. Really.

[Ninjaman]

Everyone.

No. Really.

You got to be kidding me! Ymgarls! Really?

Spoiler

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2 Tervigon: catalyst, adranal glands, toxin sacs, cluster spines

2x2 Hive guard
3 Zoanthropes

30 Termagants
29 Termagants
12 Genestealers with broodlord
13 Genestealers with broodlord

Trygon

Tyrannofex: rupture cannon, stinger salvo, desiccator larvae

Better?

[crazedloon]

Ymgarl would be awesome if it was not for the mech heavy meta. The heavy vehicle count means you tend to have to run hiveguard /zoanthropes in every slot.

That being said with the increase in GK players I have been contemplating my one unit of zoanthropes (my list being similar in elite selection as yours with 2 hive guard units and pod of thropes) for a unit of Ymgarl. I reasoned that they lack the inherent problem the thropes have (needing to succeed 4 times before having an effect against a vehicle) and provide some much needed flexibility from the elite slot that those same thropes lack. They can jump long fang squads and vehicles alike the turn they show up and on the charge their 3 str 5 rending attacks should be able to deal with most rear armor.

[lord_khaine]

You got to be kidding me! Ymgarls! Really?

Well, on paper Ymgarls ability to appear in a piece of terrain, and then assult in the same turn looks really good.

[Ricky S]

Well, on paper Ymgarls ability to appear in a piece of terrain, and then assult in the same turn looks really good.

Not just on paper. I have gone up against them a few times and they are so frustrating. "I'll just stick my devastators in this nice bit of terrain" Ymgarls turn up and nom nom nom. "Ooh my baal is ripping apart those guants. Oh no Ymgarls from the rear" Baal explodes...

They have so many useful applications.

[lord_khaine]

Yeah, but none of the Tyranid players in my local club has ever been smart enough to try and take Ymgarls along in any of the battles i have seen, so paper is all i got

[Ninjaman]

Well, on paper Ymgarls ability to appear in a piece of terrain, and then assult in the same turn looks really good.

Not just on paper. I have gone up against them a few times and they are so frustrating. "I'll just stick my devastators in this nice bit of terrain" Ymgarls turn up and nom nom nom. "Ooh my baal is ripping apart those guants. Oh no Ymgarls from the rear" Baal explodes...

They have so many useful applications.

Well first off they are too fragile. A genestealer is fragile, it got only a 5+ (which will often be ignored) or it's cover save. And while the 4+ save really helps agains small arms fire it really doesn't justify the additional 9 points. The alter form is nice, but I think that often more bodies will do better. As for the dormant, I think infiltrate is just as good or better. Your whole unit can be wiped by deploying if the enemy just places his units well. Also infiltration also has the option to outflank. And last they can't get brood lord. This is BAD since the broodlord is quite good.

But that would just be my take on it.

[Ninjaman]

Well, on paper Ymgarls ability to appear in a piece of terrain, and then assult in the same turn looks really good.

Not just on paper. I have gone up against them a few times and they are so frustrating. "I'll just stick my devastators in this nice bit of terrain" Ymgarls turn up and nom nom nom. "Ooh my baal is ripping apart those guants. Oh no Ymgarls from the rear" Baal explodes...

They have so many useful applications.

Well first off they are too fragile. A genestealer is fragile, it got only a 5+ (which will often be ignored) or it's cover save. And while the 4+ save really helps agains small arms fire it really doesn't justify the additional 9 points. The alter form is nice, but I think that often more bodies will do better. As for the dormant, I think infiltrate is just as good or better. Your whole unit can be wiped by deploying if the enemy just places his units well. Also infiltration also has the option to outflank. And last they can't get brood lord. This is BAD since the broodlord is quite good.

But that would just be my take on it.

Also why is pods on Zoans good? Is it just to keep them from getting shot?

[Teln]

Today, I have expanded my search to find things I think will work well in pairs. For a while I thought Black Templars might be a great partner, but then I realized I don't have enough melee scouts to run horde, and I don't have enough Land Raiders to run mech. Plus, WAY too expensive for 1250.

So, I moved on. Currently, I'm considering a Space Wolves / Dark Angels pairing, which seems to me to be viable on both the tabletop and in fluff (so long as we both take badass HQ's and have them duke it out before the tourney). I'm thinking my lists will look something like this:

THE WOLVES

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HQ
Rune Priest, 120pts
-Chooser of the Slain, Saga of the Beastslayer
-Powers: Living Lightning, Murderous Hurricane

Rune Priest, 110pts
-Chooser of the Slain
-Powers: Living Lightning, Tempest's Wrath

ELITES
Wolf Scouts 5, 115pts
-Mark of the Wulfen, Melta, Power Weapon

Wolf Scouts 5, 115pts
-Mark of the Wulfen, Melta, Power Weapon

TROOPS
Grey Hunters 10, 195pts
-2 Plasmaguns
+Rhino

Grey Hunters 10, 185pts
-2 Meltas
+Rhino

Grey Hunters 9, 170pts
-Flamer
+Rhino

HEAVY SUPPORT
Long Fangs 5, 115pts
-4 Missile Launchers

Long Fangs 5, 115pts
-4 Missile Launchers

TOTAL: 1250 points

Whoa there, buddy. You've done goofed with the Rune Priests. A saga alone isn't enough to differentiate HQs under Leaders of the Pack (at least, I think it's not). Try and trim 5 points somewhere for a set of meltabombs, and you'll be fine.

[Wraith]

Whoa there, buddy. You've done goofed with the Rune Priests. A saga alone isn't enough to differentiate HQs under Leaders of the Pack (at least, I think it's not). Try and trim 5 points somewhere for a set of meltabombs, and you'll be fine.

Codex Space Wolves deliberately says that no two HQ units may bare the same Sagas, nor the same combination of wargear and psychic powers.

You are correct - It is indeed two separate qualifiers, so one of them needs to change (albeit just a little )

[Hootman]

Codex Space Wolves deliberately says that no two HQ units may bare the same Sagas, nor the same combination of wargear and psychic powers.

Oh, ok. I'll write that down somewhere for when I make the final draft; if I absolutely can't find a few points to make them different, I can either take away the Chooser of the Slain or trade his pistol for a bolter (one attack lost, but if it means I can field him without any other problems, it's likely worth it).

That said, does anyone have any ideas for what I can do with the other 250 points worth of Dark Angels I have sitting empty? I don't think I own any more terminators than that (and as is, I may have to purchase a few), and I can't just take Sammael in his Sweet-Land-Speeder-Mach-6 (for lack of a second Dark Angel HQ slot), so I really don't know what to get. I was considering taking a unit of 3-6 bikes for the teleport homers, so I don't risk splattering my Terminators all over everything on Turn 1, but I'm not sure if they're worth it, since they are not allowed to Turbo-boost during their Scout move (this is a specific restriction of Codex: Dark Angels). Also, on reflection, I don't think I actually have the Fast Attack slot for that anyways. So....yeah, ideas, anyone?

[Trixie]

Oh, ok. I'll write that down somewhere for when I make the final draft; if I absolutely can't find a few points to make them different, I can either take away the Chooser of the Slain or trade his pistol for a bolter (one attack lost, but if it means I can field him without any other problems, it's likely worth it).

Yeah, taking Bolter instead is very popular option for taking 2x 100 pts priest these days...

[Cheesegear]

That said, does anyone have any ideas for what I can do with the other 250 points worth of Dark Angels I have sitting empty?

I can't think of much you can do. That 'Half FO Chart' completely screws you in a lot of things. So, here's what you can do, if you plan to keep the Wolves the same;

Dread (125), Pred with Heavy Bolters (95), use last 30 points to upgrade one of your Hammernators into an Apothecary (30). Total 250.
Note; Dark Angel Dreads have Assault Cannons.

However, given the All-Infantry nature of both lists, just go with more Hammernators and don't give opposing Lascannons anything to shoot at.
Or x2 units of three Ravenwing.

[Hawkfrost000]

Hello Playgrounders and Warhammerers

As a big fan of both Warhammer and A Game of Thrones I had the idea to create a Stark themed Space Wolves list. I want to represent all of the members of the Stark Family (and a few others, Jory and a few others)

Here is what i have so far:

Eddard Stark: Wolf Lord

Catelyn Stark: Dreadnought (don't ask if you haven't read the 3rd book)

Robb Stark:

Jon Stark: Lone Wolf or Wolf Guard with Blood Claws

Sansa Stark:

Arya Stark:

Brandon Stark: Ferensian Wolves or Thunderwolf Cavalry

Rickon Stark: Skyclaw pack

Any help making this list would be much appreciated.

DM

[Ricky S]

Well first off they are too fragile. A genestealer is fragile, it got only a 5+ (which will often be ignored) or it's cover save. And while the 4+ save really helps agains small arms fire it really doesn't justify the additional 9 points. The alter form is nice, but I think that often more bodies will do better. As for the dormant, I think infiltrate is just as good or better. Your whole unit can be wiped by deploying if the enemy just places his units well. Also infiltration also has the option to outflank. And last they can't get brood lord. This is BAD since the broodlord is quite good.

But that would just be my take on it.

Also why is pods on Zoans good? Is it just to keep them from getting shot?

The thing you are forgetting is that the genestealers can assault the turn they appear so they dont get shot at and simply wreck whatever they assault. I dont know how many points they cost but they are surely cheaper than a full devastator squad and definately a squadron of leman russes.

[Trixie]

As a big fan of both Warhammer and A Game of Thrones I had the idea to create a Stark themed Space Wolves list. I want to represent all of the members of the Stark Family (and a few others, Jory and a few others)

Here is what i have so far:

Eddard Stark: Wolf Lord

Catelyn Stark: Dreadnought (don't ask if you haven't read the 3rd book)

Robb Stark:

Jon Stark: Lone Wolf or Wolf Guard with Blood Claws

Sansa Stark:

Arya Stark:

Brandon Stark: Ferensian Wolves or Thunderwolf Cavalry

Rickon Stark: Skyclaw pack

Well, as SW, you have 8 uniqe characters (4 HQs, 2 Lone Wolves, 2 upgrade characters) to play with, plus any unique Wolf Guards you can add, so having all of these shouldn't be too difficult.

It's going to eat points like hell, though, and while all of these characters individually might bash face, I think this list would be quite fragile and with low model count...

[Eldan]

The only thing I can think of for Arya would be some kind of Imperium assassin. Of course, that's not really helpful.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Your better off not using independant characters and just making all your named guys Wolf Guard. You can still attatch them to pretty much what you want.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Ymgarl would be awesome if it was not for the mech heavy meta. The heavy vehicle count means you tend to have to run hiveguard /zoanthropes in every slot.

The mech heavy meta means low heavy vehicle counts. Mech is all about stamming light vehicles. The reason hive guard are better than zoanthropes (apart from psychic defence) is that they're worse at killing heavy vehicles but good against light vehicles. Genestealers are amazing at killing light vehicles and Ymgarls are even better since they can actually get close enough.

Well first off they are too fragile. A genestealer is fragile, it got only a 5+ (which will often be ignored) or it's cover save.

Genestealers are fragile against shooting. Dormant means you never get shot.

I run genestealer rush. You basically hope that your 4 stealers and broodlord who actually get into combat is enough. With Ymgarl's you get all 8 every time. Ymgarls aren't actually more expensive because your not wasting points on cannon fodder.

Broodlords are good but ultimately unnecessary.

Also why is pods on Zoans good? Is it just to keep them from getting shot?

Puts them into range mainly. Also allows to deploy reactively since vehicles being much faster than zoanthropes can move flat out on turn 1 to completely redeploy. With a 3+ invulnerable save you want zoans to be getting shot most of the time.

[IthilanorStPete]

On a random note, has anyone else found that the scenario with objectives in the DZs (I forget if it's Capture and Control or Seize Ground) tends to lead to a draw more often than not? My friend and I have switched to playing the other objective scenario half the time, and Annihilation the other half.

[Hootman]

On a random note, has anyone else found that the scenario with objectives in the DZs (I forget if it's Capture and Control or Seize Ground) tends to lead to a draw more often than not? My friend and I have switched to playing the other objective scenario half the time, and Annihilation the other half.

Yeah, that's fairly consistent with my experience. Unless one player completely (and I mean COMPLETELY) dominates the game, Cap & Control seems to always end in a draw. Seize Ground (at least with 3 or 5 objectives) and Annihilation have a sort of built-in tie-breaker anyways, so that might be why it's different in the game I play.

That, and I tend to get dominated, regardless of the game type.

[Ninjaman]

The mech heavy meta means low heavy vehicle counts. Mech is all about stamming light vehicles. The reason hive guard are better than zoanthropes (apart from psychic defence) is that they're worse at killing heavy vehicles but good against light vehicles. Genestealers are amazing at killing light vehicles and Ymgarls are even better since they can actually get close enough.

Let me see, i get: 6+d6+6 move, That is 13''-18''. That means my enemy will have to stay 18'' from each table edge. That gives my enemy 36'' to deploy on, if playing 2000+

Also in heavy mech there will be vehicles for zoans to take.

Genestealers are fragile against shooting. Dormant means you never get shot.

Before you get to your first battle then you get shot. Mine are the same way but can better take it.

I run genestealer rush. You basically hope that your 4 stealers and broodlord who actually get into combat is enough. With Ymgarl's you get all 8 every time. Ymgarls aren't actually more expensive because your not wasting points on cannon fodder.

Broodlords are good but ultimately unnecessary.

You don't rush stealers, you flank them, that means you will be full strength.

Puts them into range mainly. Also allows to deploy reactively since vehicles being much faster than zoanthropes can move flat out on turn 1 to completely redeploy. With a 3+ invulnerable save you want zoans to be getting shot most of the time.

You don't want zoans getting shot. That is the unfortunate reality, but they are not tough.

The thing you are forgetting is that the genestealers can assault the turn they appear so they dont get shot at and simply wreck whatever they assault. I dont know how many points they cost but they are surely cheaper than a full devastator squad and definately a squadron of leman russes.

They are 184 pts for 8. That can be killed instantly just by deploying.

On a random note, has anyone else found that the scenario with objectives in the DZs (I forget if it's Capture and Control or Seize Ground) tends to lead to a draw more often than not? My friend and I have switched to playing the other objective scenario half the time, and Annihilation the other half.

I guess most people have.
I have seen it being called: the draw mission.

[Erloas]

On a random note, has anyone else found that the scenario with objectives in the DZs (I forget if it's Capture and Control or Seize Ground) tends to lead to a draw more often than not? My friend and I have switched to playing the other objective scenario half the time, and Annihilation the other half.

No, that has not been the case for me. I've always considered it the "easy win" mission. Because I know virtually all of my opponents will not aggressively go after my base until too late in the game. Of course if you are playing mech heavy with few good assault units to clear a base (because its a pain to shoot them down with lots of cover), I could see how they could be a problem.

I have seen both other mission types end in draws more often.

[Ninjaman]

Changed my list a bit.

Spoiler

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2 Tervigon: catalyst, adranal glands, toxin sacs, cluster spines

2x2 Hive guard
3 Zoanthropes: Spore with cluster spines

30 Termagants
30 Termagants
11 Genestealers with broodlord
12 Genestealers with broodlord

Trygon

Tyrannofex: rupture cannon, stinger salvo, desiccator larvae

Thoughts?