Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

[Trixie]

Enhance just gives the unit +1WS and +1I, and the D-Cannon is always fired by the Guardians. So, no - D-Cannons are always fired at BS3 I'm afraid.

Possibly you are thinking of the 'Guide' power, which is what the Farseer would be for? That's the one which allows you to reroll your scatter dice.

Hmm, looks like I must read Eldar Codex a bit tomorrow... :P

[Ninjaman]

Drop the Trygon, add in a Tyrannofex instead.

Then i have to grab myself another 2 fexes.

As for the stealers i use them becourse i think they are usually worth it, But i could try running Gaunts instead, (but then i would have to grab myself a couple of gaunts and gants, since i can't just proxy).

[Cheesegear]

Then i have to grab myself another 2 fexes.

Sad face. Due to the Mech nature of the game, and the fact that it's getting more and more so, and then Dark Eldar hitting the game with the army-wide Special Rule "All MCs are junk", Trygons took a massive hit since they can't deal with vehicles well at all.

Mawlocs are still good, on the other hand. Being cheaper, their tunnels actually do something, and they have Hit & Run so can't be swarmed by Stubborn Guardsmen or Scouts on the turn they Deep Strike. Not to mention the agony that is swarms of Fearless units.

As for the stealers i use them becourse i think they are usually worth it

Oh, so you've actually played a couple of games then? You don't find that any Infiltrators without 3+ Armour aren't Baal Predator bait? Or Droponclad magnets? Sternguard should have different targets, but, if they have a bad Scatter, Genestealers don't have fun then either. It's why Ymgarls are better, they can't be shot at.

Unless you're Outflanking with that Infiltrate? In that case, Hive Commander + Swarmlord is better for it. And, due to Hormagaunts being a lot cheaper, they're slightly better at it.

[Ricky S]

Regarding Disembarking from a vehicle.
The rules are that you can disembark before the vehicle moves and that allows your unit to also move and shoot as normal. If the vehicle moves first, you can disembark but count as already having moved.

Is there a limit to how far the vehicle can move, that stops you from disembarking? My opponent is convinced that you cannot move full speed (usually 6-12", unless you're a skimmer) and then disembark, and although that sounds 'fair' (and more than a little familiar) I can't see that written anywhere.
This may be very important, since I've just finished painting my Black Templars' three Land Raiders and being able to disembark from a moving vehicle will be crucial to my battle plans!

Page 67 of the rule book . Basically if the vehicle has moved any distance even pivoting the models can disembark but not move. They can disembark if the vehicle has moved at crusing or combat speed but not if it has moved flat out. You can also assault straight out a landraider even if it has moved 12"

[Etcetera]

Enhance just gives the unit +1WS and +1I, and the D-Cannon is always fired by the Guardians. So, no - D-Cannons are always fired at BS3 I'm afraid.

Possibly you are thinking of the 'Guide' power, which is what the Farseer would be for? That's the one which allows you to reroll your scatter dice.

Should have been Embolden, sorry. From the other sources I've found the Warlock counts as a crew member and is able to use his BS for one shot. Why can't he?

[lord_khaine]

Because listet under crew they only mention guardians, the warlock is mentioned under characters.

[Ninjaman]

Unless you're Outflanking with that Infiltrate? In that case, Hive Commander + Swarmlord is better for it. And, due to Hormagaunts being a lot cheaper, they're slightly better at it.

I am outflanking, and hive commander or swarmlord is such a big point sink (both, no way). Also stealers can handle with vehicles, and will actually penetrate.

[Cheesegear]

I am outflanking, and hive commander or swarmlord is such a big point sink (both, no way).

I've said it before, when dealing with Hormagaunts, there's no such thing as a point sink because the Troops you're taking are dirt cheap.

[The_Final_Stand]

So, new Necron codex is out, much hurrah and such. I'm just wondering whether anyone has figured out what the wording on the Abyssal Staff means: "To Wound rolls are made against the target's Leadership, rather than Toughness." So, what does that mean then? On a target Leadership of 8, it wounds on 4's, same as with Toughness? Does a target squad use each individual model's Leadership, or the highest? Should I just wait for an FAQ on it?

[HalfTangible]

So, new Necron codex is out, much hurrah and such. I'm just wondering whether anyone has figured out what the wording on the Abyssal Staff means: "To Wound rolls are made against the target's Leadership, rather than Toughness." So, what does that mean then? On a target Leadership of 8, it wounds on 4's, same as with Toughness? Does a target squad use each individual model's Leadership, or the highest? Should I just wait for an FAQ on it?

Essentially treat the enemy's leadership as their toughness when rolling wounds.

[Ricky S]

Anyone come up with a tournament grade list for necrons yet? I have been looking at some combinations and there are some great options.

Quatum shielding is particularly awesome. Effectively an entire army of 13 AV vehicles. Crazy!

[hamishspence]

They're still only AV 11 on the back quarter though.

And that AV13 vanishes after the first penetrating hit.

Still very good though.

[Ricky S]

They're still only AV 11 on the back quarter though.

And that AV13 vanishes after the first penetrating hit.

Still very good though.

But it basically completely negates krak missiles and autocannons. Also it will be pretty hard to hit the rear until later in the game (unless drop podding) and by then they will be all up in your face rapid firing everywhere.

Some of those items the ctans can have are pretty cool too. Making all terrain dangerous and existing dangerous terrain dangerous on a 1 or 2 is gold. Whats that nids and orks. Either you run in the open and get shot or run through cover and lose a 1/6 of your unit. Painful!

Also imotekh the stormlord is pretty sweet. Making everything nightfighting would certainly make it hard for certain armies. Tau, guard and gunline space marines. Plus on a 6 everything gets hit with d6 str 8 attacks. Whats more he can seize initiative on a 4+. Painful!

[hamishspence]

Krak missiles can penetrate AV13 (Str 8, roll a 6- result is 14- enough to score a penetrating hit and disable the shielding.)

Autocannons can't though.

[Squark]

So... What is the difference between the Night Scythe and the Ghost Ark? (Being nowhere near a gaming store anymore, I haven't had a chance to pick up the new codex yet). Is it a sort of razorback vs rhino thing, or something more exotic?

[hamishspence]

Night Scythe, while treated as a transport, actually has a teleportation portal (so when it's destroyed, the unit carried simply goes into reserve) and it's a Fast Skimmer with Supersonic and Aerial Assault.

Larger carrying capacity as well- 15.

There isn't a model yet- but it's cresent shaped, with underslung guns- a bit like the old Necron starships.

[Wraith]

Should have been Embolden, sorry. From the other sources I've found the Warlock counts as a crew member and is able to use his BS for one shot. Why can't he?

Ah, that makes more sense - rerolling the psychic tests that allow you to reroll your Scatter Dice. That works just fine, as far as I know

Admittedly, I've never used a Warlock attached to Support Weapons without the Cover power. If I need the Farseer to have Embolden, he gets a retinue - Guide has a 6" range afterall, so he never *needs* to join the Support Weapon unit.

As for the other part, lord_khaine beat me to it. The Guardians are crew and the Warlock is an attached character - you don't use his BS in the same way that you wouldn't use that of a Farseer or Autarch attached to the unit.

[lord_khaine]

Personaly im finding Nemesor Zahndrek quite interesting, mainly for his ability to give a singel unit an ability from a long list that includes Furious charge, Tank hunter and Stealth, while simultanious removing a ability from a enemy unit.

Also, he has an ability that lets you deepstrike all units in, each time the enemy gets a unit in from reserve

[Squark]

Night Scythe, while treated as a transport, actually has a teleportation portal (so when it's destroyed, the unit carried simply goes into reserve) and it's a Fast Skimmer with Supersonic and Aerial Assault.

Larger carrying capacity as well- 15.

There isn't a model yet- but it's cresent shaped, with underslung guns- a bit like the old Necron starships.

Interesting... so those rumors I saw about it were actually correct... I guess some times the truth is stranger than fiction.

[hamishspence]

Personaly im finding Nemesor Zahndrek quite interesting, mainly for his ability to give a singel unit an ability from a long list that includes Furious charge, Tank hunter and Stealth, while simultanious removing a ability from a enemy unit.

Not just that- but he can change the unit, and the special ability, every turn.

For both the "give and ability" and "remove an ability" cases.

[Ninjaman]

Not just that- but he can change the unit, and the special ability, every turn.

For both the "give and ability" and "remove an ability" cases.

I guess it can only remove universal special rules. Edit: That means they can remove stubborn or fearless

The Necron special characters sound quite hard from what i have heard at the forum.

Essentially treat the enemy's leadership as their toughness when rolling wounds.

And it is S8? That's almost worthless.

I've said it before, when dealing with Hormagaunts, there's no such thing as a point sink because the Troops you're taking are dirt cheap.

What? What kind of rubish is that? 30 gaunts are 180 points. A hive tyrant easyly come up at 225 ponts. How is that not a waste of ponts? The gaunts a quite cheap but not ''dirt'' cheap for what they do.

Spoiler

Show

An ork is also 6 points but got:
+1Ws
Weak shooting
+1T
+1A (due to slugga and choppa)
+1Ld (altrough not worth much)
furious charge

they lack:
1-2'' move per turn
2I
re-roll 1's to hit (altrough the additional A is better)

And they are not ''dirt'' cheap, they are, IMHO, a bit cheaper than they should be for what they do, but it is quitte fair.

Also they still can't hurt vehicles.

[hamishspence]

I guess it can only remove universal special rules. Edit: That means they can remove stubborn or fearless

Nope- only 7 Universal Special Rules are listed (6 if you take into account that Night Vision and Acute Senses are currently one and the same rule), and Stubborn and Fearless aren't on the list.

And it is S8? That's almost worthless.

true, it will be bad vs anything but low Ld enemies, but it's AP 1, which may help a bit.

[Silverlich]

Dark Eldar hitting the game with the army-wide Special Rule "All MCs are junk"

Does this apply to Ku'Gath and Epidemius?

[hamishspence]

Since they're not immune to poison, it would appear so.

[Renegade Paladin]

They're still only AV 11 on the back quarter though.

And that AV13 vanishes after the first penetrating hit.

Still very good though.

So they're better than Titan-grade void shields? Hilarious.

[hamishspence]

No. Titan void shields absorb damage completely. Absorbing one hit causes the shield to collapse, but while the shield is up the vehicle can't be damaged at all, and when it's knocked down, the vehicle is still undamaged by that particular hit.

Plus, they can be restored.

Whereas, even with quantum shield up, a Necron vehicle can still be damaged by glancing or penetrating hits- with one penetrating hit bringing the shield down as well.

And it only protects the front and sides, whereas void shield protects all round.

[Penguinizer]

I'm pretty sure they don't get 4 shields.

[hamishspence]

A case could be made that, vs Str 6 weapons- void shields are worse- since one roll of 6 or more to penetrate, will bring down a void shield (glancing hit) whereas the quantum field would be unaffected and the vehicle undamaged by a Str 6 weapon.

Even vs Str 7, the quantum field is useful (can only be glanced) whereas the void field is lost if a Str 7 hit rolls 5 or 6 to penetrate.

But the void field still has the advantage of completely absorbing the hit that brings it down.

[The_Final_Stand]

Discovery in the Big Black Book, pg 52: "All jump infantry units may enter the battle by 'deep strike'. "
Realisation: Deep Strike allows for models to shoot as though having moved.
Destroyers are now jump infantry with assault weapons.

Deep striking Destroyers.

[hamishspence]

The Gauss cannon is now shorter range, lower Str, and less shots, though. Better AP may help to compensate.

The tactic could get nastier with 3 men in each Destroyer squad being upgraded to Heavy Destroyers- since they retain their old range and are now Assault weapons.