Murphy's Law 7: ...Maybe?

[CoffeeIncluded]

The thing is that if you were going by stats alone then yes, Janine should have the perception to figure it out on her own. But then you're ignoring personality. Because of who Janine is, and how she grew up, she wouldn't figure it out on her own. She might not even figure it out with other people helping her.

[McDouggal]

You're right. Backstory. I'm now remembering the Johan and Janine art by you, and yeah. It's definitely not in her past to do this.

[Eleanor_Rigby]

The thing is that if you were going by stats alone then yes, Janine should have the perception to figure it out on her own. But then you're ignoring personality. Because of who Janine is, and how she grew up, she wouldn't figure it out on her own. She might not even figure it out with other people helping her.

Yeah... even putting aside the fact that this is a webcomic not a game of d&d it should probably be borne in mind that whilst Sense Motive is Wisdom based and whilst Wisdom is the casting stat of Clerics which is Janine's class and was even her class back then, or at least she was training for it...

I'm pretty sure that whatever your Wisdom modifier is and however many ranks you've put into the skill a Sense Motive roll still needs to be elective. Janine probably didn't want to roll one.
I assumed that was the answer before word of Coffee and I don't think word of Coffee refutes it, it kind of seems to confirm it (but I might have read it wrong).

If the rolls are automatic then, well... sometimes people who are being taken advantage of have a general sense that this might be the case but they're pretty good at lying to themselves that it isn't, especially if they really like other aspects of the personality and behaviour of the person who's taking advantage. This is true for small things and I'd imagine it's also true for bigger things. I've read that it can be.

[looks up Sense Motive]

Ah so it's an opposed check against bluff as well... I guess I see where you're going.
As one point I'll just note that Johan probably got a decent circumstance modifier to his bluff check thanks to Janine's situation... and was possibly pretty charismatic in general.
For another: I see that if the target 'wants to believe you' they get a -5 modifier on their Sense Motive check. So there's a bit of crunch working in favour of the fluff, I suppose...

If all else fails though; like OotS before it, Murphy's Law appears to put character reactions, character interactions and so on and so forth beyond role playing mechanics as far as priorities go. Plus the setting's homebrew so... Leaves extra wriggle room for fudging things, doesn't it?

ETA: just wanted to say, McDougal's post came up before mine did, but it wasn't up yet when I started typing so... ninja'd

[SamBurke]

Quoting myself. Isn't sense motive based off of Wisdom, which is the Cleric primary ability score, and isn't sense motive a Wisdom skill? Why should Janine not see through it?

Unless... Word of Coffee. No sense motive was allowed.

Some people don't take it, dude. Janine apparently didn't. Or, alternately, rolled a 1 while he rolled high.

Circumstances may have improved that BLEEEPING BLEEP BLEEPER's chances of hurting her, too.

[x2wolf]

How Janine could be "wise" yet still fall for things is more of just a limitation of using numbers to represent personality than a fault of Coffee or even D&D. If I was to roll up a character sheet for the "real" me, wisdom would probably be a dump stat. However for some reason I can still be capable of insight from time to time that my "score" would suggest me being incapable of. Whatever "numbers" Janine has or such is reasonable trumped by her personality. The system is there to help you build a character and have a story, not limit you so far that you can't ever work beyond it. If Coffee ever works out of the "typical" system so she can write a better story, that is fine.

Edit: if that doesn't satisfy you, just pretend she has a feat or is using a homebrew cleric variant that let's her use Charisma instead of Wisdom. Even if it isn't Coffee canon, problem solved if you think Janine could have a decent Charisma score.

[Asta Kask]

Janine's Theme Song

[blackjack217]

Or she just put no ranks in sense motive while he had maxed ranks in bluff.

[Asta Kask]

Remember, he probably was a couple of levels higher. That makes all the difference.

[Alagaesian]

In 4e, levels make even more of a difference when it comes to skill checks.

Trying to simplify everything down to dice rolls and statistics is questionably accurate at best. For instance, spacial reasoning might be something that falls under the intelligence umbrella, yet 90% of it boils down to common sense, which is mostly wisdom. Writing skills in particular are hard to pin down - INT for translating thoughts into understandable written phrases, WIS for having the words make a point, and CHA for being an art form. Also, certain situations make STR, DEX, and CON almost indistinguishable from each other, as any falter in one of the three drags the other two down. (Hooray for marching bands!)

As it is, CHA tends to be substituted for People Intelligence these days, which makes me wonder why the heck Sense Motive is a wisdom-based skill anyways.

In other news, I got really bored waiting for my chem exam to start today and ended up writing the beginnings of some Murphy's Law fanfic. If I ever end up finishing it (don't hold your breath) I'll post it. It involves one of the weirdest premises I've ever had the opportunity to write with, but I'll give it a shot.

And to think, I usually roll my eyes at crack pairings...

[CoffeeIncluded]

Janine's got a high Wisdom score. It'll be clearer in the prequel.

Alagaesian, I'd like to see that.

[t209]

Except Lloyd isn't single.

Who's he dating with? Miles (Coffee says he's gay)?

[Marnath]

Who's he dating with? Miles (Coffee says he's gay)?

Lexington. You know, the snaggle-tooth guy? From Kago?

[Draconi Redfir]

Lexington. You know, the snaggle-tooth guy? From Kago?

Well to be fair it's kinda hard to hold a long-distance relationship in a medieval setting, magic or no magic. Harder still when one of the two is in a self-imposed exile and would likely be imprisoned on sight.

Harder STILL if said type of relationship is frowned on in any way shape or form in said medieval setting.

[Asta Kask]

I don't think homosexuality is frowned upon by the Kago.

[leakingpen]

I will paraphrase the recent Erfworld.

Emotions screw up all the dice roles.

[x2wolf]

I will paraphrase the recent Erfworld.

Emotions screw up all the dice roles.

Definitely that too. When Coffee does the prequel we will probably understand. For now all we can do is watch in horror and argue about D&D rules :P

[Alagaesian]

And write fanfiction.

It started out as something I did when I was bored, and now I can't stop writing it! I'll tell everyone a few things about it, but it's not going to be much. I don't want to spoil too much of it.

1. It stars two characters (whoever can guess them will be awarded with...I dunno, an imaginary trophy).
2. It takes place in Kago.
3. It takes place at some point in the future that fits with continuity now but will probably become outdated in a few years.

Incidentally, Coffee, what word is used to describe someone/something from Kago? For instance, people from China are Chinese.

[t209]

I don't think homosexuality is frowned upon by the Kago.

and interracial relationship! (Lexington might be half elf (one pointy ear) and half orc (tooth))

[Silverraptor]

and interracial relationship! (Lexington might be half elf (one pointy ear) and half orc (tooth))

Serrin is also an example of interracial relationships. Though she is not from Kago, so...

[Hiro Protagonest]

and interracial relationship! (Lexington might be half elf (one pointy ear) and half orc (tooth))

Actually, he's half-hobgoblin, not orc.

[CoffeeIncluded]

And write fanfiction.

It started out as something I did when I was bored, and now I can't stop writing it! I'll tell everyone a few things about it, but it's not going to be much. I don't want to spoil too much of it.

1. It stars two characters (whoever can guess them will be awarded with...I dunno, an imaginary trophy).
2. It takes place in Kago.
3. It takes place at some point in the future that fits with continuity now but will probably become outdated in a few years.

Incidentally, Coffee, what word is used to describe someone/something from Kago? For instance, people from China are Chinese.

Sweet.

Argh, I think I mentioned it before but now I can't remember. They're called Kagonian. I really should get around to writing this stuff down.

[Marnath]

Sweet.

Argh, I think I mentioned it before but now I can't remember. They're called Kagonian. I really should get around to writing this stuff down.

I thought it was Kagoan.

[t209]

Actually, he's half-hobgoblin, not orc.

His other half? Elf (one ear) or human.
Does he have a typical ugly backstory if you know what I mean?

[leakingpen]

His other half? Elf (one ear) or human.
Does he have a typical ugly backstory if you know what I mean?

Wink wink, nudge nudge, a much better looking and longer front story, wink wink?

[Alagaesian]

Aw, c'mon! No one's going to guess my two starring characters? Imaginary trophies look very good on resumes...

[t209]

Wink wink, nudge nudge, a much better looking and longer front story, wink wink?

I mean like kagoans hated Plavaans (Greyskins, Hobbos, and Greenskins) let alone interracial Marriage. I mean Lexington might have typical half-orc backstory (or secret marriage).

[Marnath]

He's not a half-orc.
Lexington is a half-elf with a snaggletooth. Coffee even said so when he was first introduced.

[CWater]

He's not a half-orc.
Lexington is a half-elf with a snaggletooth. Coffee even said so when he was first introduced.

Hmm... for some reason I'm still not convinced

[Alagaesian]

Yeah, I also remember Coffee telling us that. What makes anyone think the Kagonian military would allow someone they even suspected was half-orc to rise to that level of status? I can imagine that Kago sees half-orcs as some sort of monster child of an unholy matrimony (or lack thereof, in some cases). Or, they could automatically assume that no person would willingly have sex with a Plaavan and jump to all the wrong conclusions.

[t209]

He's not a half-orc.
Lexington is a half-elf with a snaggletooth. Coffee even said so when he was first introduced.

Now that solves everything.

Yeah, I also remember Coffee telling us that. What makes anyone think the Kagonian military would allow someone they even suspected was half-orc to rise to that level of status? I can imagine that Kago sees half-orcs as some sort of monster child of an unholy matrimony (or lack thereof, in some cases). Or, they could automatically assume that no person would willingly have sex with a Plaavan and jump to all the wrong conclusions.

unless of course, Lexington might be Uncle Ruckus version of this universe.