The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed - Coming in December and available for pre-order now
Results 1 to 9 of 9
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Beholder

    Join Date
    Sep 2010

    Default Using Divination to Attack!!?? Critique These Spells!

    Hey all. I am creating a divination based spellcaster, and wanted to give it a bit of combat effectiveness. So here I am, give me your critiques.


    Pattern Shock
    Divination
    Level: Arcane Oracle 1
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Close (25ft + 5ft/2 levels)
    Target: Single
    Duration: 1 round/level
    Saving Throw: Will Negates
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    For an instant, you grant an enemy a small fraction of the insight you possess, overwhelming its mind with the myriad possibilities tied up in every action.
    When you cast this spell, your opponent is Dazed for 1 round by the chaotic swirl of probability racing through its mind. The following round, the opponent is Nauseated for 1 round per level you possess. A successful Will save cancels the daze effect and halves the duration of the Nausea (round down). Mindless creatures are immune to this effect.

    Destiny Mirror
    Divination
    Level: Arcane Oracle 2
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 swift action
    Range: Personal
    Target or Targets: Self
    Duration: 1 minute/level or until discharged
    Saving Throw: Will Halves or Will Negates
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    You surround yourself with an invisible cloud of negative destiny, a baleful aura that waits to lash out at those who would oppose you.
    After casting this spell, you have the option of subjecting any opponent you can see to a harmful effect that befalls you. For example, if you are struck by a damaging attack, you may discharge this spell as a free action to cause an opponent to take equivalent damage. If you suffer a status ailment, you can end this effect to visit that status ailment upon an opponent. Either way, this spell has no effect upon you -- Destiny Mirror does not cancel or end an effect that targets you.
    A successful Will save halves any damage that is inflicted by this attack or Negates a status effect manifested by this attack. Status ailments transferred in this way last for their normal, listed duration. Damage inflicted in this way is untyped, and thus bypasses all Damage Reduction.
    If you are subject to an attack that inflicts damage and a status ailment, Destiny Mirror can only transfer one

    Portent of Doom
    Divination
    Level: Arcane Oracle 2
    Components: V
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Close (25ft + 5ft/2 levels)
    Target or Targets: Single
    Duration: 6 rounds
    Saving Throw: Will halves duration
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    A baleful utterance reveals the inevitability to an opponents own failure, a destiny that grows more certain as the curse progresses.
    Upon casting this spell, your opponent suffers a -1 penalty to all d20 rolls he makes. This penalty increases by 1 for each round the spell progresses.

    Awful Wisdom
    Divination
    Level: Arcane Oracle 3
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 full action
    Range: Touch
    Target or Targets: Single
    Duration: 1 minute/level
    Saving Throw: Will Negates
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    The victim of this spell becomes certain that you are privy to its deepest, darkest, most shameful secrets. Depending on the creatures strength of will, it may attack your or may act meekly and assist you in a bid to keep its secret safe.
    This spell is somewhat dangerous, as the exact effect is randomly determined by a d20 roll, but influenced by the creatures Wisdom Score, as below:


    Wisdom Flee Cowed Rage
    10 1-10 11-19 20
    11-15 1-9 10-18 19-20
    16-20 1-8 9-17 18-20
    21-25 1-7 8-16 17-20
    26+ 1-6 7-15 16-20



    A creature who wishes to flee is panicked, and flees your sight at the earliest opportunity. A creature that is cowed takes a -2 penalty to attack, skill, and damage rolls, but will attempt to assist you for the duration of the spell. A creature that is enraged will attempt to attack you, but still takes a -2 penalty to his attack, skill and damage rolls for the duration of the effect.
    After this spell wears off, the target is aware that its thoughts were invaded and reacts accordingly.
    Mindless creatures are immune to this effect, as are creatures immune to fear.

    Confounding Revelation
    Divination
    Level: Arcane Oracle 3
    Components: V
    Casting Time: 1 Standard action
    Range: Close (25ft + 5ft/2 levels)
    Target or Targets: Single
    Duration: Instant
    Saving Throw: Will halves
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    You speak a transcendent truth that echoes in the mind of your opponent, a sanity blasting revelation that can shatter even the strongest of minds. Those who survive this attack cannot ever reconcile the truth they have, for such a brief period, perceived. Most simply forget the awesome secret they are privy too. The remainder are rendered insensate by madness.
    Your opponent takes 1d8 points of damage per 2 levels you possess as his mind struggles to comprehend the mystery you have unveiled. Additionally, for every 4 points of damage inflicted by this attack, your opponent takes 1 point of Wisdom Damage. A successful will saves halves the damage inflicted.
    Mindless creatures are unaffected by this spell.

    Reckoning
    Divination
    Level: Arcane Oracle 4
    Components: None
    Casting Time: 1 Full action
    Range: Personal
    Target or Targets: Self
    Duration: 1 round/level
    Saving Throw: Will halves
    Spell Resistance: No
    Those who would oppose you find their fates tied to your own, suffering the same pain inflicted upon you.
    While this spell is active, whenever you take damage, you may indicate an opponent within 30 feet who takes equivalent damage as a free action. This damage is untyped, and is thus unaffected damage or energy resistance. A Will save halves the damage inflicted.

    Apocalypse
    Divination
    Level: Arcane Oracle 5
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 Full Action
    Range: 20 feet
    Target or Targets: All creatures within a 20 foot burst, centered on you
    Duration: Varies
    Saving Throw: Will halves
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    For a brief moment you sunder the veil between worlds, allowing those around you to witness the chaos and perfection of the planes -- the transcendent clash of Fundament and Firmament that informs mortal action.
    The exact effect of this spell is determined by the targets Wisdom score, as below:
    Wisdom Damage
    10 or less 5d12
    11-15 5d10
    16-20 5d8
    21-25 5d6
    26+ 5d4



    Any target who takes damage from this spell is Dazed for 1 round for every 4 points of damage inflicted by this spell. Any creature reduced to 0 hp by this attack vanishes, his spirit bursting free from his mortal shell in a flash of light. The Spellcaster is immune to the effects of her own Apocalypse spell.
    Creatures with an Intelligence score of 3 or lower are immune to this effect.

    Note: The Apocalypse spell does not create a Gate or Portal to another plane -- it simply allows the victims to perceive the multiverse without the filter of mortal senses.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Orc in the Playground
     
    WhiteWizardGirl

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    In a field of starlight
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Using Divination to Attack!!?? Critique These Spells!

    These are very interesting spells, though I have a few questions.

    1. What is the max level spell this class may cast?
    2. What does the table in "Apocalypse" mean?

    Pretty cool though, you shuld consider adding them for Sor/Wiz also, give diviners something else to do.
    If you're falling in a forest and there's nobody around, do you ever really crash or even make a sound?
    I have felt the pain of losing who you are, and I have died so many times, but I am still alive
    I believe that the darkness reminds us what light can be


    My Extended Homebrew Signature

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Banned
     
    BlueWizardGirl

    Join Date
    Nov 2010

    Default Re: Using Divination to Attack!!?? Critique These Spells!

    1.Patter Shock is mostly ok. It should be mind effecting, of course.

    2.Destiny Mirror is just broken, and is not a divination...not even close. So if a diviner takes 20 damage..they can 'copy' and shoot that damage 'untyped' at anyone they see...and that person makes a wil save for half damage? That's just crazy...untyped wil save damage is way too powerful. This is way too powerful for even a Epic spell.

    3.Portent of Doom is broken. A spell that scales and gets worse over time is just broken, even for just a couple rounds. And from the other side a -1, -2 and such is worthless. A static minus would be better in any case.
    And no spells give a minus to all 'd20' rolls, that's too much. You can say 'all combat rolls' or 'all saves' or 'all ability checks', but everything is too much. And yet again this spell is not even close to a divination, it's just a rewritten lesser confusion/curse spell.

    4.Awful Wisdom is a very bad version of confusion, and is not much of a divination spell. A better divination type spell here might be one that you attempt to attack a person mind and steal a piece of secret information.

    5.Confounding Revelation is again an untyped mental damage spell and feels wrong. The damage is not so bad...but the huge wisdom loss is too much. One point per 4 damage is way too high...maybe 20 damage? You have to think what will happen at say 10th level with 5d8 damage, at least 20 points= -5 wisdom, yikes!

    6.Reckoning is not even close to a divination and again does the crazy untyped damage, no SR, for a wil save. The whole idea of 'destiny' hitting a person with untyped wil save force is just too, too crazy.

    7.Apocalypse Finally!, now this is a divination spell! This is what a divination spell should/ can do. The damage is fine, daze is fine...but obliteration at 0 hp is way, way too powerful. Just drop that, or make the spell a much higher level, like 9th.
    Last edited by Gamer Girl; 2011-07-30 at 01:47 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Siosilvar's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    USA
    Gender
    Male2Female

    Default Re: Using Divination to Attack!!?? Critique These Spells!

    Pattern Shock looks a lot like Hideous Laughter, and I'm not sure Nauseated is less severe enough to warrant a level change. Halve the duration of the nausea, then we'll talk.

    Destiny Mirror is an abjuration, no questions asked.

    Portent of Doom looks okay to me but ought to be a 3rd level spell, because it feels stronger than a 2nd level but is outclassed by Bestow Curse at 4th.

    Awful Wisdom looks okay but is illusion, not divination, because you're affecting the target's perceptions. Maybe if you reflavored as actually picking up a deep secret or fear and holding it in front of their face, you could call it divination.

    Confounding Revelation... eh, flavor's a bit off but acceptable and the spell needs to be higher level. "For every 4 damage" is not an effect I like, though. How about a flat 1 Wis damage per 2 levels, halved with the rest?

    Reckoning is very powerful. Compare with the fourth level power empathetic feedback, which returns up to 5 damage to a melee attacker. Also compare fire shield, which is also fourth level and returns 1d6+CL, again to melee only (which means you don't get to choose).

    I disagree with GG on Apocalypse. Obliteration on 0 doesn't mean much, but 1 round per 4 damage is a LOT of daze; you can't do anything while dazed and nearly nothing is immune.
    Compare Maw of Chaos. 9th-level Abjuration, rounds/level, smaller area, CLd6 force damage per round and a save vs. daze. Assuming one stays in the area each round and that a save is made half the time, that's [a lot of] damage and 9 rounds of dazing.

    Back to Apocalypse. Four times the area, but not at range, less damage, dazes for six rounds on a failed save and three on a successful (assuming 16-20 Wis, which looks like the average for CR 17-20 creatures), but the daze is guaranteed continuous (not that it matters, one-two rounds is all you'll need).

    Also compare the 8th level touch-range Irresistable Dance, which is essentially a three-round single-target no-save daze that adds attacks of opportunity each round along with penalties to AC and Reflex.

    I think Apocalypse would be fine as an 8th level spell.

    EDIT: And it needs a rename if it doesn't actually cause an apocalypse. Forced Perspective, maybe?
    Last edited by Siosilvar; 2011-07-31 at 10:11 PM.
    she/her/her(s)

    Omnia Vincit Amor

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2009

    Default Re: Using Divination to Attack!!?? Critique These Spells!

    Quote Originally Posted by Siosilvar View Post
    EDIT: And it needs a rename if it doesn't actually cause an apocalypse.
    Before "apocalypse" meant "tremendous destruction", it meant "revelation."

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Beholder

    Join Date
    Sep 2010

    Default Re: Using Divination to Attack!!?? Critique These Spells!

    Thanks for the input! I have a few comments and responses:

    1) I'd hoped that the damage transfer spells would simulate a "destiny link" or something similar -- the caster unifying his destiny with that of his opponent.
    Is there soem other way I could do this? Perhaps the spell inflicts non-lethal damage or only effects status (making it more situational)? Like this: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/fateLink.htm

    2) Why is Portent of Doom not a divination spell? There is a psionic power that functions similarly (at least in terms of fluff), right? Its a clairvoyance one.

    3) I get that Confounding Revelation can do some heavy wisdom damage, but so does bestow curse, and thats permanent. At one level higher, Enervation is draining levels. This might not be a fair comparison -- is it just a good idea to keep ability damage away from 3rd level spells?

    4) Finaly, apocalypse as a 8th or 9th level spell? Its good, but what about Psionic Blast http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/po...ionicBlast.htm

    I know this is coupled with damage, but it seems roughly equivalent in terms of effect.

    5) Finally, as you can see from the spell descriptions, these spells are intended for a specialist wizard class, like the warmage or beguiler. As divination lacks some damaging/status spells, I included these. Also, the game where this class will be used only goes up to level 10, so much of the cheese that can be applied to these spells can be avoided.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Banned
     
    BlueWizardGirl

    Join Date
    Nov 2010

    Default Re: Using Divination to Attack!!?? Critique These Spells!

    Quote Originally Posted by wayfare View Post
    Thanks for the input! I have a few comments and responses:

    1) I'd hoped that the damage transfer spells would simulate a "destiny link" or something similar -- the caster unifying his destiny with that of his opponent.
    Is there soem other way I could do this? Perhaps the spell inflicts non-lethal damage or only effects status (making it more situational)? Like this: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/fateLink.htm

    2) Why is Portent of Doom not a divination spell? There is a psionic power that functions similarly (at least in terms of fluff), right? Its a clairvoyance one.

    3) I get that Confounding Revelation can do some heavy wisdom damage, but so does bestow curse, and thats permanent. At one level higher, Enervation is draining levels. This might not be a fair comparison -- is it just a good idea to keep ability damage away from 3rd level spells?

    4) Finaly, apocalypse as a 8th or 9th level spell? Its good, but what about Psionic Blast http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/po...ionicBlast.htm

    I know this is coupled with damage, but it seems roughly equivalent in terms of effect.

    5) Finally, as you can see from the spell descriptions, these spells are intended for a specialist wizard class, like the warmage or beguiler. As divination lacks some damaging/status spells, I included these. Also, the game where this class will be used only goes up to level 10, so much of the cheese that can be applied to these spells can be avoided.


    1)Fate Link works as it does damage to both creatures. And it only effects damage. But a spell with a free action discharge at anyone that does untyped damage is way too much. You could just make Fate Link an spell too.

    2)Portent of Doom just does a negative effect.....it's an enchantment really(or a Curse). And a minus to all rolls is way too much.

    3)Bestow Curse has limits as does Enervation, and you need to be evil to do both too. Linking the damage to the ability drain is just a bad idea....but the other way would work...every wis point lost does 1d8 damage.

    4)Psionic blast does no damage...and most of all a psionic blast can not obliterate a creature. no matter how rare it might be, if the spell can oblerate a creature that is a huge level bump. Just think of the combo...drain a targets wisdom and then apoc-oblerate them.

    5)Only level ten...might make the spells ok. They would need caps for a normal game, and not do so much stuff. I do like the idea of damaing divinations....hummm, I got a couple here...maybe I could post'em

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2008

    Default Re: Using Divination to Attack!!?? Critique These Spells!

    Quote Originally Posted by wayfare View Post
    2) Why is Portent of Doom not a divination spell? There is a psionic power that functions similarly (at least in terms of fluff), right? Its a clairvoyance one.
    IMO it impede and transfer damage, so it is an abjuration.

    The power you're referring to is...?
    I've found only a spell: this, but you may agree that, in comparision, the spell you've made is a little overpowered, right?

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Siosilvar's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    USA
    Gender
    Male2Female

    Default Re: Using Divination to Attack!!?? Critique These Spells!

    Quote Originally Posted by Yitzi View Post
    Before "apocalypse" meant "tremendous destruction", it meant "revelation."
    In current usage it means "tremendous destruction". Best not to confuse people.

    Quote Originally Posted by wayfare View Post
    3) I get that Confounding Revelation can do some heavy wisdom damage, but so does bestow curse, and thats permanent. At one level higher, Enervation is draining levels. This might not be a fair comparison -- is it just a good idea to keep ability damage away from 3rd level spells?
    Wisdom damage is fine at third level (see Bestow Curse). However, it needs to be less, and linking it to damage dealt is a clunky mechanic.

    Quote Originally Posted by wayfare View Post
    4) Finaly, apocalypse as a 8th or 9th level spell? Its good, but what about Psionic Blast http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/po...ionicBlast.htm

    I know this is coupled with damage, but it seems roughly equivalent in terms of effect.
    Daze, despite what the books may tell you, is more powerful than stunning, because they have the same effects but fewer creatures are immune. Likewise, 1 round stun != multiple rounds stun. Multiple rounds + better effect + damage + cannot negate >>>>>> 1 round.

    Quote Originally Posted by wayfare View Post
    5) Finally, as you can see from the spell descriptions, these spells are intended for a specialist wizard class, like the warmage or beguiler. As divination lacks some damaging/status spells, I included these. Also, the game where this class will be used only goes up to level 10, so much of the cheese that can be applied to these spells can be avoided.
    Specialist or not, level limited or not, balance things by what they're worth. Arbitrary restrictions like that mean nothing. Balance things against what their effects are and what level similar effects are available.
    [hr]Sum of changes I'd make:
    Pattern Shock: Halve duration of nausea effect.
    Destiny Mirror: Abjuration, for the same reason shield other is abjuration.
    Portent of Doom: eeeh... probably okay as-is.
    Awful Wisdom: Illusion, 4th level because you end up with one of three effects: fear (single target, so downgrade to 4th), dominate (small penalty, so maybe downgrade to 4th), or rage (penalty instead of bonus, so upgrade to 4th).
    Confounding Revelation: 1d8 damage and 1 wisdom damage per 2 levels.
    Reckoning: 6th level.
    Apocalypse: Save negates the daze; 8th level or only a one-round daze.
    Last edited by Siosilvar; 2011-08-02 at 04:25 PM.
    she/her/her(s)

    Omnia Vincit Amor

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •