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    Default two weapon fighting fighter build help

    Hey all, i know there are many threads on here about this but the search keeps getting stuck for, so im going ask you guys instead lol. Im starting a campaign next couple of weeks and im going to play a fighter. Reason why is because only PHB, DMG, and FRCS books are allowed only, so real basic. I know and have read that i can be a cleric or wizard to be a better fighter but i just want to keep it old school lol kind of.

    So we are starting at lvl 6 and have 32 point buy, and im thinking of going TWF but never really tried, so what are your thoughts and suggestions, thanks and happy gaming! :)

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    Default Re: two weapon fighting fighter build help

    Honestly, if you want to TWF, Rogue is better for you - TWF is very, very hard to pull off effectively without a source of bonus damage dice, between the dual-wield attack penalties, the massive feat taxes, and the lower damage bonus from single-handing instead of dual-wielding.
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    Default Re: two weapon fighting fighter build help

    The Glyphstone has the right of it; there are way to pull off TWF with a fighter-type, but I'm pretty sure not with those sources. There is one possibility if you want to keep with it, though; you can TWF with a two-handed weapon and using kicks for unarmed strikes. You get the lesser TWF penalties for a light offhand weapon, your main weapon gets 2H power attack returns, and your kicks get 1H returns.

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    Default Re: two weapon fighting fighter build help

    Warblade from Tome of Battle is the result of WotC's Build a Better Fighter challenge*, and the Tiger Claw discipline warblades and swordsages get gives TWFers nice things (Dancing Mongoose gives an extra attack, and Raging Mongoose gives two extra attacks, per weapon). Also, the Two-hander + unarmed strike** thing Cog mentioned.

    *never actually happened.

    **get superior unarmed strike in the ToB feat section.

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    Default Re: two weapon fighting fighter build help

    Variant Horizon Tripper

    Human
    1. Ranger - Weapon Finesse, Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Kusari-Gama (DMG page 144), B: Track
    2. Ranger - B: Two Weapon Fighting
    3. Fighter - Combat Expertise, B: Improved Trip
    4. Barbarian
    5. Ranger - B: Endurance
    6. Barbarian - Combat Reflexes
    7. Horizon Walker
    8. Horizon Walker
    9. Horizon Walker - Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    10. Horizon Walker
    11. Horizon Walker
    12. Horizon Walker - Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    13. Horizon Walker
    14. Horizon Walker
    15. Horizon Walker - Dodge
    16. Horizon Walker
    17. Fighter - B: Mobility
    18. Fighter - Spring Attack
    19. Fighter - B: Whirlwind Attack
    20. Shadowdancer (or something else, Hide in Plain Sight is an okay capstone though)

    Level 17 through 20 can be whatever actually (same with feats of level 15+). More Barbarian would be an option for those levels.

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    Default Re: two weapon fighting fighter build help

    I just looked over FRCS's feats and PrCs and hoo boy, it's casters' game.

    Anyhow, if you want TWF Fighter (the class), you can go with Cog's suggestion (pretty stylish), or pick up a pair of kukris, grab Weapon Focus line and Imp. Critical along with TWF line. Either case, you want to keep str as high as you can while qualifying for TWF feats (GTW is probably not worth it).

    A double weapon with above feats might work too (for a given definition of "work"), using PA two-handed when limited to one action.

    Barbarian dip is nifty for Rage, either early game when it's relatively bigger boost or later after you've exhausted the good fighter feats.
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    Default Re: two weapon fighting fighter build help

    Hmmm... by reading all your posts. I'm guessing I should just go rogue lol, but mentally i dont see how effective the rogue would be at TWF at lvl 6 compare to a fighter with 8 feats to the rogues 4 ( im going to be human). I do believe the rogue in the end would be, but the reason why im going fighter is because we got two people who are clerics, one that is a wizard and one that is a monk. So we need a meatshield or i think we do lol. So im doing this for more RP and just kicking ass in game then optimizing but im guessing i should just go THF *tear*......because i've have played many THF fighters and warblades, i wanted to try something new lol.

    The horizon tripper looks interesting and effective but its not what im looking for as in theme, but cool and thanks.

    My thing is what stats should i focus on and im thinking of going with a double weapon like two bladed sword. What do you guys think? and should stats be prioritize like this Dex>Str>Con>Wis>Int>Cha

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    Default Re: two weapon fighting fighter build help

    Quote Originally Posted by ranger557 View Post
    mentally i dont see how effective the rogue would be at TWF at lvl 6 compare to a fighter with 8 feats to the rogues 4
    They're called class features. Besides, with the sources you have, you're going to run out of good feats to take.

    Quote Originally Posted by ranger557 View Post
    the reason why im going fighter is because we got two people who are clerics, one that is a wizard and one that is a monk. So we need a meatshield or i think we do lol.
    You have two clerics. What you seem to be lacking is a skill monkey.

    Quote Originally Posted by ranger557 View Post
    So im doing this for more RP and just kicking ass in game then optimizing
    Unless you want to RP someone who isn't very good at fighting, you'll need to think about your build a bit. If you want to kick ass you definitely have to think your build. FRCS is a treasure trove… for casters: there's practically nothing of use for a TWF fighter (except Twin Sword Style, and that's pretty minor).

    Quote Originally Posted by ranger557 View Post
    My thing is what stats should i focus on and im thinking of going with a double weapon like two bladed sword. What do you guys think? and should stats be prioritize like this Dex>Str>Con>Wis>Int>Cha
    Str>Dex>Con>Wis. Dex only just enough to get the TWF feats you want. I wouldn't start with more than 16.

    Two-bladed sword is pretty cool. I'd start with two levels in ranger for skills and feat, then take 4 in fighter to pick up WF, WS, ITWF and maybe PA to use when you can only make one attack (such as after moving or when making AoO).
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    Default Re: two weapon fighting fighter build help

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenish View Post
    They're called class features. Besides, with the sources you have, you're going to run out of good feats to take.

    You have two clerics. What you seem to be lacking is a skill monkey.

    Unless you want to RP someone who isn't very good at fighting, you'll need to think about your build a bit. If you want to kick ass you definitely have to think your build. FRCS is a treasure trove… for casters: there's practically nothing of use for a TWF fighter (except Twin Sword Style, and that's pretty minor).

    Str>Dex>Con>Wis. Dex only just enough to get the TWF feats you want. I wouldn't start with more than 16.

    Two-bladed sword is pretty cool. I'd start with two levels in ranger for skills and feat, then take 4 in fighter to pick up WF, WS, ITWF and maybe PA to use when you can only make one attack (such as after moving or when making AoO).
    Ok thanks for the snarky remarks :P. Let me clarify that i know its going to be pretty hard to pull off TWF period with the books and resources i have but was just wondering if people have notice or found a way to make it more effective.

    True, that we need a rogue, but damn i've played rogues only a couple of times and don't really enjoy them that much. Also yeah i forgot they had class features :P compare to the featureless fighter.

    Im guessing i should just go barbarian/fighter and go THF from all this difficulty lol. Or maybe a ranger like you suggested. Thanks but now i feel like im at square one....now im thinking what class should I be? and forget the rest lol

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    Default Re: two weapon fighting fighter build help

    Human Ranger2/fighter4

    32 PB: STR: 16 DEX: 16 CON: 14 INT: 10 WIS: 12 CHA: 8

    Feats: EWP (Two-bladed Sword), Imp. Initiative, Track (B), TWF (B), WF, PA, Twin Sword Style (if DM allows it to work on your double sword), ITWF, WS.

    Not very good, but it does TWF a two-bladed sword.
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    Default Re: two weapon fighting fighter build help

    Human Ranger2/fighter4

    32 PB: STR: 16 DEX: 16 CON: 14 INT: 10 WIS: 12 CHA: 8

    Feats: EWP (Two-bladed Sword), Imp. Initiative, Track (B), TWF (B), WF, PA, Twin Sword Style (if DM allows it to work on your double sword), ITWF, WS.

    Not very good, but it does TWF a two-bladed sword.
    Thanks for the advice build. For a second I was thinking of going caster or rogue, but then again I just like being a melee type of character theme wise even if they suck really bad mechanically lol.So, I was thinking of some way of going fighter but i know i'll need to multiclass sooner or later to become more versatile. I think I might go the ranger/fighter route, but im guessing when i hit lvl 7 i should keep going ranger? thanks and have a good one!

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    Default Re: two weapon fighting fighter build help

    Druid>multiattack>EWP - BEARS/jk
    You'd think with Drizzt being from Faerun, they'd pour a whole lot more into TWF in the FRCS. Speaking of which...
    http://www.realmshelps.net/npc/drizzt.shtml
    Just for lols. But seriously, rouge is better main class in general considering your current group, but if you and your DM cooperate so that your favored enemy choices come up often, then you really can't go wrong with straight ranger with a dip in Barbarian for Whirling Frenzy alt class feature(from the SRD). Maybe some fighter if you need feats NOW(trick to fighter dipping is to take as few levels as possible)
    IIRC, pounce barbarian alt class feature can also be gotten from SRD. If it can, IN THE NAME OF AO, TAKE IT, JUST DO IT. If not then
    Last edited by marcielle; 2011-08-08 at 12:33 AM.
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    Default Re: two weapon fighting fighter build help

    Well if you want some caster tossed in AND to use TWF you can do suprising well with Cleric or Druid... but then again you can do just about anything well with those classes.

    For cleric, I'd be tempted to run as a Halfling cleric of Arvoreen, a forgotten realms halfling deity with favored weapon short sword, and the Good, Halfling, Law, Protection, War domains. The size bonus and war domain make up for the BAB loss and while the strength penalty would hurt briefly, your one level away from Divine Power and 3 levels short of Righteous Might and at that point, you pretty much a melee madman.

    Druid is easy... quarterstaff, Shillelagh, and if you can get the spell from one of its many appearances Spikes. Plus everything else druids do... *shivers*

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    Default Re: two weapon fighting fighter build help

    Quote Originally Posted by marcielle View Post
    You'd think with Drizzt being from Faerun, they'd pour a whole lot more into TWF in the FRCS. Speaking of which...
    Faerūn's more magic heavy. Oh, and no way that is CR 18.

    Quote Originally Posted by marcielle View Post
    IIRC, pounce barbarian alt class feature can also be gotten from SRD.
    It's from Complete Champion, and besides, SRD isn't among his allowed sources.
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    Default Re: two weapon fighting fighter build help

    Wow, not even SRD? That's pretty darn strict.
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    Default Re: two weapon fighting fighter build help

    Actually, given your sources, rogue is going to be really hot-or-cold on damage, since sneak attack won't work against undead, constructs, etc.

    Furthermore, you don't really have any way to move and get a full attack, so your D6 HD light armor rogue is going to get DESTROYED when the ogre or nightwalker retaliates.

    I would go with two levels ranger for two weapon fighting that ignores your dex requirements. That way, you can pump up strength and dump dex. Get dwarf as your race for free martial weapon proficiency with dwarven urgoshes. Take weapon focus, weapon specialization, etc. with it. That's really the only way to get good static damage with TWF.

    Alternatively, you could go human and use two light weapons (I would go with short swords), and pick up snow tiger berserker (feat from Unapproachable East). That lets you make a full attack at the end of a charge. It's a regional feat, and requires that you can rage.

    Champions of Ruin has Skewer Foe, a feat that gets you an extra 1d6 on attacks with piercing weapons if your first weapon hits an opponent that round.

    Quote Originally Posted by marcielle View Post
    Wow, not even SRD? That's pretty darn strict.
    There's no pounce ACF in the SRD.
    Last edited by faceroll; 2011-08-08 at 02:47 AM.

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    Default Re: two weapon fighting fighter build help

    Hey all,

    marcielle:
    Yeah I agree, you would think they would have more TWF feats from FRCS because Drizzt is from there lol. I could go rogue, but I have already given my stand on that because i just don't really enjoy the rogue class that much. Also I wanted to be a meatshield lol .

    TwylyghT:
    Indeed and Indeed again good lad! casters are pretty pimp and badass if you optimize or not but thats not what im going for.I'm going more for thematic feel and just plain fun cutting stuff up lol, even if i'm not that good at it lol. Either way i was just trying to find a way to be better at TWF as a melee character.

    faceroll:
    Yeah I was thinking the same thing if i did go rogue, that would d6 and medium BA and i wouldnt feel thematically like a meatshield with TWF like that lol.
    However thats interesting you said full ranger, that is an idea but i would go human instead of dwarf but then again i don't want two short blades, I rather have my badass polearm blade lol. Of course its more thematic, but your idea sounds more efficient for a character. Hmmm... choices.....stay fuzzy or be more efficient? lol

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    Default Re: two weapon fighting fighter build help

    Well if you can take a tiny splash of arcane to get you qualified, and you think youll be playing for awhile, and because I like them, you could do something goofy like...

    Fighter 2/Barbarian 2/Sorcerer 1/ Dragon Disciple 1 and go for all 10 levels in DD.

    As far as just PHB + DMG goes, thats about as straight up, melee bash as I can think up. The sorcerer splash tosses in some Shield and you can cast it very frequently from all the bonus slots for shoring up TWF defense problems, natural AC helps a lot too. The STR bonuses make up for medium BAB. You also get a metric ton of status immunity, flight and blind sense.

    You fall a step behind on number of attacks because of BAB, but you can reclaim one by way of a secondary bite attack. And the immunities + blindsense + flight shore up a significant portion of melee characters shortcomings.

    The d12 hitdice are nice too lol

    You could always go full Barbarian and grab TWF feats as you level. As it has been said, feats wont be as big an issue for you as normal due to a minuscule selection. If you really need an extra one, splash Fighter. You do a decent chunk of damage with rage, full BAB, and more hitpoints than anyone else.
    Last edited by TwylyghT; 2011-08-08 at 11:50 PM.

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    Default Re: two weapon fighting fighter build help

    Hey all, after considering options I have figured to go full ranger. I was thinking of going rogue because the extra bonus dice damage would be much better but then again my concept is more melee type than skillmonkey. Also i need those extra hitpoints lol. Here's what I have decided to build, what do you guys think?


    Human Ranger
    Stats
    Str: 16 (17)
    Dex: 14
    Con: 16
    Int: 10
    Wis: 12
    Cha: 8

    1. Ranger - Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Two-bladed Sword, B: Track, Fearless(PGtF)
    2. Ranger - B: Two Weapon Fighting
    3. Ranger - Improved Initiative, B: Endurance
    4. Ranger -
    5. Ranger -
    6. Ranger - Power Attack, B: Improved Two Weapon Fighting

    Items: Mithral breastplate and gauntlets of ogre power?

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    Default Re: two weapon fighting fighter build help

    Since you're going melee and you're starting at level 6, I would suggest heavy multiclassing instead. Specifically, some combination of Fighter 2, Ranger 1 or 2, Rogue 2, Barbarian 2 or Paladin 2.

    The strongest non-Metamagic Feat options from the Player's Guide to Faerun:
    • Arcane Schooling: Allows you to use spell trigger items for one arcane class (presumably Sorcerer or Wizard). Thus you could buy and use Wands or similar magic items without having to invest in Use Magic Device. Specifically, you may want to take a look at Alter Self and similar spells.
    • Otherworldly: Gives you Darkvision (useful in dungeons) and makes you a Native Outsider, which is handy for certain Alter Self forms (see link above).
    • Fleet of Foot: +10 base land speed when wearing light armor or no armor. Since you're going to be a Ranger anyway, this will be fairly handy.
    • Mercantile Background: You can sell items at 75%, and not 50%. Worthwhile only if your DM is fond of standard wealth by level. If he's not or if this is a one shot campaign, avoid this. If he is, this is a huge money saver.
    • Saddleback: Lets you replace Reflex Saves with Ride checks. A Small character (like a Halfling) can ride a Medium mount anywhere. Riding a mount dramatically increases your speed and often adds other special properties.

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    Default Re: two weapon fighting fighter build help

    Quote Originally Posted by Person_Man View Post
    Since you're going melee and you're starting at level 6, I would suggest heavy multiclassing instead. Specifically, some combination of Fighter 2, Ranger 1 or 2, Rogue 2, Barbarian 2 or Paladin 2.

    The strongest non-Metamagic Feat options from the Player's Guide to Faerun:
    • Arcane Schooling: Allows you to use spell trigger items for one arcane class (presumably Sorcerer or Wizard). Thus you could buy and use Wands or similar magic items without having to invest in Use Magic Device. Specifically, you may want to take a look at Alter Self and similar spells.
    • Otherworldly: Gives you Darkvision (useful in dungeons) and makes you a Native Outsider, which is handy for certain Alter Self forms (see link above).
    • Fleet of Foot: +10 base land speed when wearing light armor or no armor. Since you're going to be a Ranger anyway, this will be fairly handy.
    • Mercantile Background: You can sell items at 75%, and not 50%. Worthwhile only if your DM is fond of standard wealth by level. If he's not or if this is a one shot campaign, avoid this. If he is, this is a huge money saver.
    • Saddleback: Lets you replace Reflex Saves with Ride checks. A Small character (like a Halfling) can ride a Medium mount anywhere. Riding a mount dramatically increases your speed and often adds other special properties.
    Hey thanks for the info about the feats, I didnt know that. However, why heavy multiclassing? wouldnt that thin me out more the focusing on something that i would at least be decently good at? Also how would I do that effectively? I never really heavy multiclass before.

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    Default Re: two weapon fighting fighter build help

    Quote Originally Posted by ranger557 View Post
    Hey thanks for the info about the feats, I didnt know that. However, why heavy multiclassing? wouldnt that thin me out more the focusing on something that i would at least be decently good at? Also how would I do that effectively? I never really heavy multiclass before.
    It would, if most melee classes were actually well designed and had a proper progression of class features. Unfortunately, very few muggle classes are worth taking more than 4 levels of.

    As a muggle, you have 7 sources of power: class features, ability scores, feats, skills, BAB, saves, items, and HP. Itemization, for our purposes of charop, are assumed to be largely independent of class- everybody gets the same WBL. Same with ability scores (beyond choosing race/templates, which you don't seem to have a lot of options for, anyway). As a fighter-type, you aren't interested in skills beyond tumble, balance, and maybe swim.

    That leaves you with class features, HP, BAB, feats, and saves. Saves benefit from multiclassing, as they stack. BAB doesn't do well when multiclassing with less than full BAB classes, due to the rounding down of fractional BAB before adding. Most muggle classes are front loaded with class features, in many cases, they are feats. You can get most of the iconic abilities of monk, ranger, barbarian, fighter, and paladin with 1 to 4 levels.

    For example:
    Barbarian 1 gets you rage and fast movement (or pounce if using complete champion). Barbarian 2 gets you improved trip if using unearthed arcana.

    Fighter1,2,4 gets you 3 feats.

    Ranger 2 gets you another couple feats.

    So a barbarian 1/fighter4/ranger2 gets Two Weapon Fighting, Track, Favored Enemy, Rage, Fast Movement, and 3 bonus feats, while maintaining full BAB, gets saves of 9/4/1 (compared to 5/2/2 for barb or 5/5/2 for ranger), and has two fewer HP than a fighter 7.

    If you can nab extra rage, you've got rage for pretty much all day, given that you likely won't need it for more than 3 encounters.

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    Default Re: two weapon fighting fighter build help

    Quote Originally Posted by faceroll View Post
    If you can nab extra rage, you've got rage for pretty much all day, given that you likely won't need it for more than 3 encounters.
    No CW, no extra rage. In fact, I'm not even sure about dipping fighter, since with the sources allowed you won't have what to invest them in. Maybe for Weapon Focus/Specialization, at least those do something.
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    Default Re: two weapon fighting fighter build help

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenish View Post
    No CW, no extra rage.
    Thus the "if you can..." I would lobby very hard to use SRD stuff, then use whirling frenzy rage variant (extra attack) and trade in uncanny dodge from barbarian 2 for improved trip.

    In fact, I'm not even sure about dipping fighter, since with the sources allowed you won't have what to invest them in. Maybe for Weapon Focus/Specialization, at least those do something.
    Weapon focus/spec is the only way, given the material, to get extra damage without rogue levels. It's far more reliable than sneak attack, too, especially because the sources listed won't give him gravestrike, vinestrike, or any abilities that allow sneak attacking the undead.

    Fighter will also get him stuff like Improved Initiative and Improved Trip. Using the off hand attack to knock people down can be fairly useful when fighting against humanoids. It will also free up his feats from levels, allowing him to pick up iron will or a useful regional feat that gives him +2 initiative.

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    Default Re: two weapon fighting fighter build help

    So what im guessing at is melee characters will have it tough regardless because of my resources i have.
    Also that dipping in levels, preferably even ones will benefit me in the long run because of the abilities i'll gain.
    So in other words for more effciency and power, i should go barbar2/fighter2/rngr2 with a a greatsword to maximize my usefulness? .....sadly im ok with that lol.

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    Default Re: two weapon fighting fighter build help

    Quote Originally Posted by ranger557 View Post
    So what im guessing at is melee characters will have it tough regardless because of my resources i have.
    Also that dipping in levels, preferably even ones will benefit me in the long run because of the abilities i'll gain.
    So in other words for more effciency and power, i should go barbar2/fighter2/rngr2 with a a greatsword to maximize my usefulness? .....sadly im ok with that lol.
    Don't bother with ranger if you're picking up a greatsword. If you want an optimized build as a melee character in core, saph has a really great build that uses a spiked chain:
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80415

    I've also seen a core only level 20 fighter build that's heavy on magic items, but can one-shot a balor using archery.

    Straight fighter 20 is doable in core. Pick 2 of the following combat styles to specialize in: archery, tripping, mounted combat. Don't bother with weapon focus/weapon specialization. Pick up power attack, for sure. Use a two handed weapon (or two hand your lance). Spirited charge with a lance gets you 2x damage. Race should be: human if not using mounted combat; halfling or gnome otherwise (so you can take your riding dog indoors).

    Mixing in some barbarian there wouldn't hurt, either. Maybe 4 levels of barbarian. You could go for more damage, less tripping, with full orc. Full orc barbarian 1 with a greatsword in a rage does 2d6+10 damage. Pretty good!

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    Default Re: two weapon fighting fighter build help

    Wow wow WOW, ive play spiked chain fighters and so forth a few times and they are BADASS but it gets old...lol. so i guess let me get back to the drawing board to make a decent TWF melee character.... Lol :/

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    Default Re: two weapon fighting fighter build help

    There's always the Sneak Attack Fighter variant if you want to be a frontline dual-wielder...it trades away Bonus Feats and gets Sneak Attack while keeping full BAB and low skill points (though I like to combo in the Thug variant that trades heavy armor proficiency for an extra 2 skill points/level and a better skill list).
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    Default Re: two weapon fighting fighter build help

    Ranger 2/Barbarian 2/Fighter 12 should be alright (or Ranger 2/Barbarian 2/Fighter 4/Horizon Walker 10). You get:

    - Ranger skills
    - One Favored Enemy
    - Tracking
    - One Rage per day
    - Uncanny Dodge
    - Fast Movement
    - Weapon Specialization-line (you get full damage on the off-hand so these are actually somewhat useful for you)

    This assumes you go Strength-focus, of course. You could dualwield Kusari-Gamas (DMG Pg. Whatever) if you want a tripping reach weapon; they're pretty cool (Exotic Weapons). You shouldn't bother with Power Attack unless you use a two-hand weapon (which you most certainly don't).
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    Default Re: two weapon fighting fighter build help

    Although maybe not the MOST powerful route, Tempest/Shadowdancer/Dervish is a fun route for a dual wielding fighter.
    Last edited by SowZ; 2011-08-09 at 07:26 PM.
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