Star Trek TOS

[Kobold-Bard]

Decided to watch the original Star Trek. Maybe it's just me but the third season is just generally bad. I'm about 1/3 of the way through it and it's just seeming boring & strains belief even by Star Trek standards.

Anyone else agree?

K-B

[hamishspence]

There are a few good third season episodes- but they do tend to repeat plotlines from the previous two seasons.

[Gnoman]

The third season is when NBC executives were actively trying to kill the show(primarily because one exec didn't like it, and it's ratings were low in absolute terms. It wasn't until they broke down the demographics that they realized, too late, that the show was very poular among the desirable groups.) This manifested in schedule changes and massive budget cuts, so they couldn't attract the dame quality of writers and the same elvel of special effects.

[JediSoth]

It's not just you. While there were a couple of good season 3 episodes, the majority of them just aren't very good. Still, it's Classic Trek, so even in the bad episodes, you can get some iconic memories from almost any of them (like Shatner's "in-pain" acting from Spock's Brain).

I really liked The Tholian Web, though. I believe this marks the only time Spock ever outright lied to Kirk (at least while he was himself).

[H Birchgrove]

To add insult to injury, one of they guys working the 3rd season of ST:TOS got to work on the 2nd (and last) season of Gerry and Sylvia Anderson's Space: 1999. Which made what was a series about mystery and metaphysics into a standard action-filled space opera. It even got a Spock-expy.

[Mauve Shirt]

Wow, how can you find a season that began with the great episode Spock's Brain boring? And it ends on such a high note with Turnabout Intruder!
Yes, the third season is worse than the first two. I agree with Jedi Soth about The Tholian Web.

[hamishspence]

I liked The Enterprise Incident.

And there was a good novel that follows up a bit on Romulan commander Charvanek from that episode, as well as Spock, Saavik, and the characters in the TNG episode Yesterday's Enterprise.

It was called Vulcan's Heart.

[Lord Seth]

The third season is when NBC executives were actively trying to kill the show(primarily because one exec didn't like it, and it's ratings were low in absolute terms. It wasn't until they broke down the demographics that they realized, too late, that the show was very poular among the desirable groups.)

If they were, in fact, trying to kill the show, there was a far easier way to accomplish that: Don't bring it back for a third season in the first place. I highly doubt there was any kind of intentional goal of killing it, because there's little point in uncanceling a show only to try to get it canceled immediately afterwards. It's likely more of a case of them just not really caring about the show rather than any active attempts.

[Kobold-Bard]

New complaint: Soooo many incorporeal/just-not-there/etc. species.

I guess if they were trying to kill it off that'll be due to budget constraints.

Edit:

New Complaint 2: Kirk's such a tool, so many of the aliens make valid points & he just ignores them and does whatever the hell he wants.

[thompur]

Yeah, by season 3 they were running out of ideas, but they did have some wonderful guest stars leaving serious teeth marks on the scenery!
*Michael Ansara(Elric the Technomage from Babylon 5) as Kang in Day of the Dove
*Frank Gorshin(The Riddler from Batman TV series) as Bele in Let That be Your Last Battlefield
*Michael Dunn(Dr. Miguelito Loveless from Wild Wild West TV series) as Alexander in Plato's Stepchildren - which, famously included the first inter-racial kiss in TV history.
*And, of course...SPACE HIPPIES!

[McStabbington]

If they were, in fact, trying to kill the show, there was a far easier way to accomplish that: Don't bring it back for a third season in the first place. I highly doubt there was any kind of intentional goal of killing it, because there's little point in uncanceling a show only to try to get it canceled immediately afterwards. It's likely more of a case of them just not really caring about the show rather than any active attempts.

That's what did happen. The show only got saved by what was one of the very first fan-mail campaigns. So they "saved" the show but slotted it in the Friday Night Death Slot and starved the show of funds. It's possible that writer fatigue and the usual decay of a series may also have had something to do with it, but executive meddling explains a great deal of what happened.

Ironically, we really wouldn't see good Trek again until executive meddling kicked Gene out of control, lest you think that executive meddling only does bad things to Trek.

[chiasaur11]

New Complaint 2: Kirk's such a tool, so many of the aliens make valid points & he just ignores them and does whatever the hell he wants.

The key word there?

Kirk.

He will karate your face, steal your girl, and break every federation regulation on the book.

This is just how he rolls. It's the best.

[Lord Seth]

That's what did happen. The show only got saved by what was one of the very first fan-mail campaigns.

You're missing my point. A fan campaign didn't somehow "force" them to bring it back. If they wanted the show to stay dead, they would've kept it dead. The fan campaign is actually irrelevant to my point.

One can reasonably argue that the network still didn't have much faith in the show and as a result didn't give it much of a chance, but they were hardly intentionally trying to get it canceled, because if that was their goal, they had a far simpler and less expensive alternative: Keep it canceled!

Ironically, we really wouldn't see good Trek again until executive meddling kicked Gene out of control, lest you think that executive meddling only does bad things to Trek.

I don't know if it was executive meddling, as Gene stepped back due to health problems. I will say, though, that what we got after he left was a heck of a lot better than we got when he was in charge. In fact, he may have been the meddler.

Which is why I always think it's funny when people criticize DS9 for deviating from Gene's "vision"...that "vision" was responsible for the worst seasons of TNG.

[Gnoman]

Here's what happened. This is not speculation, this is confirmed by both NBC and the Star Trek staff. There were three levels involved, like this:


NBC Upper managment

NBC Middle management

Star trek staff


The scheduling and funding were handled by middle management. The executive that had control of this for Star Trek hated the show, so he used the low absolute ratings to convince upper management to cancel it. The massive fan campaign convinced upper management to overrule middle management and bring the show back, hoping to bolster NBC's flagging ratings. Middle management still hated the show and wanted it gone, so he slashed the budget and Death Slotted it.

[McStabbington]

I don't know if it was executive meddling, as Gene stepped back due to health problems. I will say, though, that what we got after he left was a heck of a lot better than we got when he was in charge. In fact, he may have been the meddler.

Which is why I always think it's funny when people criticize DS9 for deviating from Gene's "vision"...that "vision" was responsible for the worst seasons of TNG.

Gene was basically kicked upstairs twice. First, after Star Trek: TMP, Harv Bennett was given direct control of producing the second movie while Gene was shunted to a purely ceremonial executive producer role. About the only direct effect he had on WoK was to start the rumors that Spock was going to be killed, which changed how they did it. There's no solid evidence of this because they were still in the scripting phases, but the best guess is that Scotty's nephew died in the slot where Spock initially would have, changing it from a Wash-style shocker to the tragic finale we all know and love. So I suppose we have Gene to thank, indirectly, for improving upon the STII script. But beyond that, WoK was very much not his vision, since he was by this point going into his space hippie phase and saw the movie as far too militaristic.

The second time was when Gene's declining health and the firing of Maurice Hurley after Season 2 of TNG led to Rick Berman's ascent. The result wasn't entirely positive (firing Rick Jones, grumble grumble) but Season 3 of TNG was really the first season that could in any way compare to the first two seasons of TOS, and actually going over the list of episodes stands up as one of the best seasons of any sci-fi show ever.

And for what it's worth, I think that you're too timid in your criticisms of people who revere "The Gene Roddenberry" Star Trek, because not only do they fail to appreciate how bad a lot of the stuff he's responsible for is, but they also fail to appreciate that a lot of what he did right was plenty dark and gritty. If you look at some of the best episodes of TOS, the elements that work are precisely the elements that don't fit the notion of some kind of hippy-dippy love fest among the stars. "Balance of Terror" is a great episode, and yet the tension is amplified by what can only be described as the racism of the helmsman against Mr. Spock for the common Vulcan-Romulan heritage. The punch of "Errand of Mercy" comes when Kirk proves just as bloodthirsty and spoiling for a fight as the Klingons. And Kirk has to quite visibly fight the impulse to take lethal retribution against a human mass murderer in "Conscience of the King". The idea that Star Trek is about some kind of weightless utopian view of humanity is not borne out in the actual episodes of TOS. Rather, it's just part of a myth about Gene Roddenberry that in his old age Gene, and an unfortunately large part of the fan base, bought into.

[Lord Seth]

As a question, was Friday really so much of a "death slot" back when Star Trek aired? It tends to be that way now (well, mostly), but I remember that in the 80's and early 90's there was actually some popular programming then. Heck, All in the Family, which aired only a few years after Star Trek: TOS, was on Saturday if I remember correctly, which is nowadays the "real" death slot for broadcast. Maybe it wasn't a great slot in the 60's after all, but I'm wondering to what extent the fact it was on Friday is colored by modern ideas of what a show on Friday is.

Though, for what it's worth, I think canceling Star Trek after the third season was a smart move. It had brought it up to decent numbers for syndication--which is where its popularity eventually came from--and it was stopped before it went downhill too much.

The second time was when Gene's declining health and the firing of Maurice Hurley after Season 2 of TNG led to Rick Berman's ascent. The result wasn't entirely positive (firing Rick Jones, grumble grumble) but Season 3 of TNG was really the first season that could in any way compare to the first two seasons of TOS, and actually going over the list of episodes stands up as one of the best seasons of any sci-fi show ever.

I'd say Michael Piller was probably more responsible for TNG's improvement than Rick Berman, as shown by the results Rick Berman produced when he no longer had Michael Piller (granted, Berman and Piller did produce the lackluster Insurrection, but for the most part the two did good work together). Though it probably is thanks to Berman we got DS9...not because he had that much to do with DS9, mind you, but he seemed to leave it alone, something Rodenberry probably wouldn't have done (he likely would've tried to force his "conflict-free" idealist Federation into it and deprived it of some of its best story arcs and episodes, if he had even let it be made in the first place).

And for what it's worth, I think that you're too timid in your criticisms of people who revere "The Gene Roddenberry" Star Trek, because not only do they fail to appreciate how bad a lot of the stuff he's responsible for is, but they also fail to appreciate that a lot of what he did right was plenty dark and gritty. If you look at some of the best episodes of TOS, the elements that work are precisely the elements that don't fit the notion of some kind of hippy-dippy love fest among the stars. "Balance of Terror" is a great episode, and yet the tension is amplified by what can only be described as the racism of the helmsman against Mr. Spock for the common Vulcan-Romulan heritage. The punch of "Errand of Mercy" comes when Kirk proves just as bloodthirsty and spoiling for a fight as the Klingons. And Kirk has to quite visibly fight the impulse to take lethal retribution against a human mass murderer in "Conscience of the King". The idea that Star Trek is about some kind of weightless utopian view of humanity is not borne out in the actual episodes of TOS. Rather, it's just part of a myth about Gene Roddenberry that in his old age Gene, and an unfortunately large part of the fan base, bought into.

Yeah, he was definitely pushing that whole utopia bit more in early TNG. I think one of his rules he really enforced was to not have conflict within the cast or the Federation (as I mentioned before). That's why in the early episodes, whenever there was any real conflict between them, it was always due to something like alien influence.

[Kobold-Bard]

So, Abraham Lincoln in space....

I only just started the episode so maybe it makes sense later, but at the moment I don't think there's a picture in the world that accurately portrays the amount of facepalm I just did.

[0Megabyte]

What about this?

[Kobold-Bard]

What about this?

...

I tried it, but I don't think a quadruple tactical facepalm would have been enough.

[hamishspence]

Spectre of the Gun had the Earps & Doc Holliday as the enemy- but the basic plot was pretty similar to the Lincoln one.

[Gnoman]

As a question, was Friday really so much of a "death slot" back when Star Trek aired? It tends to be that way now (well, mostly), but I remember that in the 80's and early 90's there was actually some popular programming then. Heck, All in the Family, which aired only a few years after Star Trek: TOS, was on Saturday if I remember correctly, which is nowadays the "real" death slot for broadcast. Maybe it wasn't a great slot in the 60's after all, but I'm wondering to what extent the fact it was on Friday is colored by modern ideas of what a show on Friday is.

The popular Friday shows in the 80s and 90s were family shows like Boy Meets World and Sabrina the Teenage Witch. Because Friday has been a key "party night" since the 40 hour week became standard, it is rare for a show that isn't aimed at children or older adults to succeed in that slot, something that was if anything more pronounced in the sixties.

[Kobold-Bard]

And I'm done. They managed to cheer me up with the last 2 episodes, quite liked them.

Except that I had the weirdest complaint about the final episode (besides Uhura not being in it): during the trial even Sulu & Chekov were in the briefing room, meaning for (as far as I recall) the only point in the show they left an NPC in charge of the bridge. Which bugged me, but I don't know why.

Either way, thanks for the replies.