I know most of D&D wiki is balanced, but...

[enderlord99]

Is this like "most"? Or is it fair?

[Greenish]

I'm not sure most of Dandwiki is balanced, but that one doesn't look too bad. If it lost a level of casting, it might not be worth entering.

[Circle of Life]

It's basically a plagiarized Wizard of High Sorcery from the Dragonlance Campaign Setting with some other stuff tacked on. The fact that you can pick the best of each order secrets means it's a bump up from the normal Wizard of High Sorcery, which is already pretty good.

[Cidolfas]

I'm not even sure it's fair to call most of that Wiki balanced. There are three Wikis that all use the name D&D Wiki, but I wouldn't call that one the best. Half of the articles there are incomplete, don't follow proper formatting, or have a slew of other problems. There's practically no concept of quality control on dandwiki.com. I know, I'm biased (my signature is evidence enough of that) but I'm not even badmouthing them that much; looking at recent changes it's striking how many articles are simply lacking in content, let alone quality.

From the initial post, it's difficult to discern whether the original poster means most of the articles are actually unfairly balanced. Especially since the question after inquires whether it is "fair".

I would say it's about as good as a wizard, but not really any better. With the exception of Magic of Change and Magic of Deception, none of the secrets are really worth anything, and when playing a Tier 1 game (which it's fair to assume since you're a wizard on entering) you will have access to save-or-die effects that will render quite a few features of this class obsolete. It's only really, really good feature is that it has full casting advancement, but I'd still be tempted to go regular wizard for the bonus feats, which can pretty much eclipse anything this class gives without having to jump through hoops to meet prerequisites.

[enderlord99]

...Did I forget to say "un-"?

Yes, I did. It was an accident, but at least it got this thread free publicity (most good titles do)

[Zale]

What is this balance of which you speak?

[Seerow]

What is this balance of which you speak?

What is that, a quintuple gestalt?

edit: Missed a couple classes and that it gets 4 separate sets of spells known. But I can't say it's a gestalt of every SRD class because no paladin.

[Zale]

What is that, a quintuple gestalt?

edit: Missed a couple classes and that it gets 4 separate sets of spells known. But I can't say it's a gestalt of every SRD class because no paladin.

It's an April Fool's joke.

I hope, at least.

Also, Curse you pokemon-freak for linking me to that. I can not stop until I fix the glaring spelling/grammar/capitalization errors I see.

It's odd... I rarely have Grammar Nazi moments. This appears to be an exception.

[Circle of Life]

Also, Curse you pokemon-freak for linking me to that. I can not stop until I fix the glaring spelling/grammar/capitalization errors I see.

It's odd... I rarely have Grammar Nazi moments. This appears to be an exception.

Attempting to fix dandwiki by correcting grammar is like putting a bandage over a sword thrust to the stomach.

[erikun]

Lithe Tongue: INT to Use Magic Device, Diplomancy, and whatever charisma checks you want.

Spell Focus for everything.

Alter Fortune, 24 Hours, and Dominate Monster SLA's 3/day. I'm not sure what the first two spells are, though.

You get three more abilities as well, although I'm not reading through the lists to see how good they are.


Unless I'm missing something, the class does not seem as overpowering as Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil, Planar Shepard, Incantatrix, Dweomerkeeper, and other absurdly good options. It looks a fair bit better than the Lorekeeper, the average measuring stick for a "good" wizard PrC. I think a Divine Oracle might be a better PrC, but this one certainly gets a lot of stuff and might make up for it.

It doesn't look to be overpowering, but definitely on the higher end of strong classes.

[Zale]

Attempting to fix dandwiki by correcting grammar is like putting a bandage over a sword thrust to the stomach.

I know.

But It makes it look less ugly to me. Which makes me feel better.

[Steward]

Attempting to fix dandwiki by correcting grammar is like putting a bandage over a sword thrust to the stomach.

You mean, it's technically better than doing nothing but it doesn't even begin to address the critical problems?

As far as the Omniarcanist, my only concern with it just by looking through it is that a lot of the class features require that you be in the original setting -- probably from a sourcebook or a fantasy novel. You probably already know that though! I really like the Secrets -- they remind me of the Witch hexes from Pathfinder (but much more versatile). The class seems a little strong compared to most of Core but it's on par with the casters.

[Zale]

Oh my.

I found a class that can literally suck their enemies into the planar home of their deity, forcing them to make a fortitude save or die and a reflex save to escape. Affects (Cha mod x 5' Area) and can be used Level/4 + Wis Mod times a day.

Guess what level they get this.

Five.

[Ziegander]

So if they make the Fortitude save, but fail the Reflex they survive but are transported to the literal home of some deity?

That deity must be pretty pissed.

[Zale]

So if they make the Fortitude save, but fail the Reflex they survive but are transported to the literal home of some deity?

That deity must be pretty pissed.

I'd imagine so.

Having random bandits and zombies dumped into your nice clean planar home would upset most deities.

Here's the exact phrasing.

Heaven's gate creates a portal to their diety's home plane this sucks in all non-good enemies where they will be destroyed. must make a fortitude save or be killed instantly, then must make a reflex save to escape if they fail at the beginning of their turn they must make both saves again this affects all enemies in a (cha mod x 5)' area this may be used (lvl/4 +wis mod) times a day

[Greenish]

So if they make the Fortitude save, but fail the Reflex they survive but are transported to the literal home of some deity?

That deity must be pretty pissed.

It's like the ability to turn anything you touch into Glod, but in reverse. Or something.

[Zale]

And no one but that class knows the name of the deity.

Not the best strategy if you're starved for prayer...

[Maho-Tsukai]

Not sure if this wiki is good or bad, but the World Dominator always made me laugh. It's so blatantly overt about the fact it's OP and the writer uses the old "It's not any worse then the wizard" excuse o justify it....though it would make a great BBEG.

[Ziegander]

Not sure if this wiki is good or bad, but the World Dominator always made me laugh. It's so blatantly overt about the fact it's OP and the writer uses the old "It's not any worse then the wizard" excuse to justify it...

You know, some of it is actually not awful, and even novel in places. But, yeah, he got pretty overzealous with MOST of it. Clearly it's simply written by someone that doesn't understand game balance nearly as well as they understand the game mechanics.

For example, Breath of Cold is perhaps a balanced blasting power and it has a the very interesting "cold grease" augment. Nice.

Cloud Control is also very cool.

Ground Control is hideously unbalanced, and Mists is just very overpowering although it has the awesome "silence" augment which is super flavorful.

Now, not only are his powers just OUTRAGEOUSLY more powerful than already very useful, sometimes already broken, spells of the same level, the perhaps bigger problem is that he can manifest many of them super-cheaply, and even the 1st level powers, with a few augments, and manifested at 0PP can be devastating at any level.

Regardless, it is an interesting concept anyway.

though it would make a great BBEG.

Indeed.

[Steward]

It's like the ability to turn anything you touch into Glod, but in reverse. Or something.

I think the most disgusting part of that is that some deity's house will be filled with mounds of festering corpses from all the people who cast that spell.

[Zale]

"Oh for the love of me! Why do they keep dragging people here?!"


Anyway, what does everyone think of this class?

[Ziegander]

Anyway, what does everyone think of this class?

Honestly, it looks like a mess, and surely it plays even worse than it looks.

The class table is filled haphazardly with piles of class features. Then you read what they do and realize that it's just a Fighter that always hits with his sword and deals way, WAY more damage than is necessary. I fully expected the Tome Samurai's per day auto-crit ability to show up (thankfully it didn't).

[arguskos]

Anyway, what does everyone think of this class?

I stopped reading at the line "They are also proficient with any weapon with the descriptor "sword" in it". SWORD IS NOT THE DESCRIPTOR IN THOSE WORDS, DAMMIT!!

But really, it looks like a pile of miscellaneous crap that's somewhere between slightly overpowered and LOLWTFBBQ. It's poorly designed, the few usable ideas are drowned in idiotically designed sludge, and works out to be a pile of numbers in the end. I am unimpressed.

Also, the formatting and grammar is really pretty bad.

[Zale]

Yep.

But there's worse.

[arguskos]

Yep.

But there's worse.

Wooooooooooooooooow.

It's crap, except Heaven's Gate, which is like lulzwuuuuut overpowered. See, this kinda thing is why that wiki has a terrible reputation.

[Circle of Life]

See, this kinda thing is why that wiki has a terrible reputation.

Which in turn gives people the idea that homebrew in general is bad, which makes people ban it in their games, which cheeses off the people who make quality homebrew so much they don't join said games...

It's a vicious cycle, and I blame dandwiki for 95% of it.

[arguskos]

Which in turn gives people the idea that homebrew in general is bad, which makes people ban it in their games, which cheeses off the people who make quality homebrew so much they don't join said games...

It's a vicious cycle, and I blame dandwiki for 95% of it.

Seriously, man, seriously.

Also, I find some amusement that your screen name is Circle of Life... and you're talking about vicious cycles.

[Zale]

Wooooooooooooooooow.

It's crap, except Heaven's Gate, which is like lulzwuuuuut overpowered. See, this kinda thing is why that wiki has a terrible reputation.

Yep. My own thoughts were..

"Meh. Meh. Meh. Holy-what? Seriously?"

Homebrew on this forum is so much nicer. With nice pictures, even.

[Ziegander]

Which in turn gives people the idea that homebrew in general is bad, which makes people ban it in their games, which cheeses off the people who make quality homebrew so much they don't join said games...

It's a vicious cycle, and I blame dandwiki for 95% of it.

So true (funny how it seems...).

[ericgrau]

• Easy entry requirements
• full casting, half BAB, high will
• Lots of bonus spell focus but that's ok b/c it gets spread out and doesn't stack
• Easier spell acquisition saves some gold
• Magic of Betrayal is a bit nuts on ray of enfeeblement, energy drain, etc., with minimal drawback. Just tap your familiar for a little HP. Heck false life him ahead of time to provide the HP. It needs fewer uses, removal of empower or a bigger drawback. The rest of the secrets are surprisingly ok.
• I noticed the PrC gives spell focus 7 times, and requires it before you enter. That's 8 spell focuses for 7 schools. Meh, just remove one from the PrC progression.

Nothing seems over the top, but as the PrC is so easy to get into and you don't pay anything for any of the benefits it seems like it needs more pre-requisites or else things you give up for the abilities, such as spell slots. Still I suppose there are things that are about as strong in published material. For an example of an easy thematic pre-requisite add another spell focus, among other costs you feel like adding.