Relationship Woes and Advice XX: One X Short of an Awesome Title

[rogueboy]

Well, the main reason I'm worried about that is the fact that it has happened before. So, past experience makes me worried.

I'm actually in the same spot (I've mentioned this before on this thread, see below for more) - speaking from someone who's been working on wanting to ask for longer than you (from what I gather based on your post, at least), putting it off isn't going to do you any good; you'll continue to debate it, while knowing the correct answer the whole time, no matter how much you convince yourself of that. It doesn't end well.

For myself (and maybe someone has some ideas for me; if not, it's just an update to keep myself honest with myself), I'm well past the "do I want to ask" stage and into the "how/when do I ask" stage. Limitations are as follows:
-I want to ask when there aren't other people around, for obvious reasons. This is made more difficult because it means I can't ask while we're in lab except for a few, unpredictable, situations (grad students, lots of people around while either of us are at our desks).
-As implied above, getting 1-on-1 opportunities are tough. What's been the easiest (without going to text/IM/phone, which I'd rather avoid) is to get her to give me a ride home (which she is always willing to do, if we're leaving at similar times or I hang out until she leaves). Problem is that due to my teaching requirements (Tues/Thurs evenings) and her group meetings (Wed evening), options are limited. It's been further limited by my playing IM soccer on Mon/Wed nights (now done), which has meant 4 nights that aren't an option, and I'm exhausted pretty much 7 nights a week.

I think that covers the basics. The only other thing to get past is my own over-thinking self, at this point.

edit: I left while typing, so I missed all the psychological creepy usefulness. Interesting...

[KerfuffleMach2]

Well, rogueboy, what I would suggest for getting her alone (which is what I planned on doing), is first asking if she wants to grab lunch with you sometime.

From what I know, lunch is more innocent than dinner. Where you get lunch may be in public, but it's mostly a public that isn't paying attention.

You could even ask for a lunch when she gives you a ride home.

[rogueboy]

Well, rogueboy, what I would suggest for getting her alone (which is what I planned on doing), is first asking if she wants to grab lunch with you sometime.

From what I know, lunch is more innocent than dinner. Where you get lunch may be in public, but it's mostly a public that isn't paying attention.

You could even ask for a lunch when she gives you a ride home.

Your inattentive public is one whose existence I had already written off as irrelevant, but still a good point to keep in mind, thanks.

The trick to the lunch idea, which I may end up doing at some point, depending on what I can manage soon, is 2-fold: 1, we usually bring our own lunches, and 2, when we've gone for lunch in the past, it's usually because one of us didn't and the other doesn't feel like eating the lunch they brought (this has happened several times, we're actually quite good friends - another part of my hesitation is losing that friendship, since I don't have a lot of good friends).

I think that if I'm going to ask her out at all during a ride home, I'll go straight for the dinner option - in the past we've done group dinners, but never as even an implied date (aside from one waitress asking us if we wanted separate bills about 6 months ago; we each looked at the other, mildly surprised by the question, before saying separate). Based on what I've been able to figure out, I'm pretty certain she'll say yes (I just like to be 100% certain of things, not 80ish% certain).

[Syka]

Relationships are never 100% certain. Ever. Because they involve other folks. ;)

80% is pretty darn good. And if the woman in question is at all mature, just asking her out (and leaving it at that if she declines), shouldn't have an adverse impact on your friendship. Speaking from experience here.

[Coidzor]

Relationships are never 100% certain. Ever. Because they involve other folks. ;)

Heck, that they involve ourselves kinda nixes that 100% certainty anyway.

[The Succubus]

Heck, that they involve ourselves kinda nixes that 100% certainty anyway.

Are you sure about that?

[rogueboy]

Relationships are never 100% certain. Ever. Because they involve other folks. ;)

80% is pretty darn good. And if the woman in question is at all mature, just asking her out (and leaving it at that if she declines), shouldn't have an adverse impact on your friendship. Speaking from experience here.

I do know this, at least on an intellectual level. Certainly helps to have it restated, though, thanks. I just need to get my intellectual self to tell my instinctual/habitual self to shut up long enough to ask.

[ShortOne]

I do know this, at least on an intellectual level. Certainly helps to have it restated, though, thanks. I just need to get my intellectual self to tell my instinctual/habitual self to shut up long enough to ask.

Practice alone in your room. Not in front of a mirror because staring at yourself while practicing asking someone out is hella awkward and makes it worse. But seriously. Say it over and over, and visualize the scene. The more that you visualize it, the more likely it is that you'll be able to say it. It's what professional athletes do-- they visualize themselves running and winning the race/completing the pole vault/sticking their landing, and then they do it.

[rogueboy]

Practice alone in your room. Not in front of a mirror because staring at yourself while practicing asking someone out is hella awkward and makes it worse. But seriously. Say it over and over, and visualize the scene. The more that you visualize it, the more likely it is that you'll be able to say it. It's what professional athletes do-- they visualize themselves running and winning the race/completing the pole vault/sticking their landing, and then they do it.

The thing is, I do this. A lot. Probably too much, especially since I end up running through different potential outcomes every time I do so. Usually 2-3 different responses she might have (usually different versions of 'yes'), and then I end up spending all my time going through each of those possibilities (and branches later down this theoretical, not-actually-likely-to-happen-exactly-this-way conversation) until I get distracted by something else. Usually that means the rest of however long I'm walking to/from campus (it's a 30 minute walk).

Yes, I think too much. It's something I'd like to do less, but it's how I've always functioned, and it works GREAT for the straightforward decisions (like where to go for grad school) that don't involve direct interactions with other people - I know myself well enough to pretty much predict how things will affect me.

[Rawhide]

professional athletes

"I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. Twenty six times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."
- Michael Jordan



Don't be afraid to make a mistake rogueboy. Learn from it and keep on trying.

[Drascin]

Well, the girl I was starting to take a fancy to (not a very usual thing, truthfully, this might be the first girl I liked since I was... sixteen or so, I think) appears to not be interested in relationships at all at the moment. Guess that nixes that. But hey, better to know early than to work up courage to ask and then finding out, at least

[YPU]

How have you tried to counteract these feelings? I know with me and Oz (he got me coming out of two nasty situations with untrustworthy guys), it just took time and a realization of he was trustworthy and even if there ARE other women there, he's with ME and wants ME. That was the only thing that stopped the feelings, and that took two years AND a bad situation with a girl (not Oz's fault).

Am I right in assuming the problem here is that you DON'T trust that she really wants to be with you? Or that she would do something you would disapprove of if you aren't around?

Actually I am quite sure she is wholly dedicated to me. To the second, well "Relationships are never 100% certain. Ever. Because they involve other folks." But even then on a more intellectual level I can live with any minor slip ups of they are rare. Heck the one time she did, which was 3 years ago I can't say I was particularly angry or upset. Which is exactly why I am rather irritated by the jealous streak I do seem to have.

Counteracting it tough... I don't think I have ever acted on it really, I will for instance never try to stop her from going to a LARP if I'm not. But she knows me well enough to detect a hint of those feelings.

[KerfuffleMach2]

Update!

Okay. I work up the courage to ask her. Planned on inviting her to grab some lunch between classes and asking her then.

And wouldn't you know it, she wasn't here today.

Oh well. Guess I'll have to try again Tuesday, then.

[WalkingTarget]

Things are not going well.

Back in March I had this happen. Things have been fine since then on the surface. In fact, we've spent more time hanging out since then than I think we did before it, including seeing several movies together (many of which with just the two of us). We're not dating, we just have a fairly large number of overlapping interests (which is kinda what drew me to her in the first place).

The problem is, while the "friend" thing has been awesome, but I haven't been able to keep other feelings from happening and I'm pretty hopelessly infatuated with her at this point. I don't generally remember my dreams (and when I do it's generally just impressions), but I woke up once last week where what I got to remember was that she'd started seeing somebody else and it hurt, physically hurt, when I woke up. I haven't felt like that since an old girlfriend broke up with me almost 7 years ago now.

I just can't get a read on the situation. I don't know if she'd be welcome with another overture on my part. If not, I really don't want to screw up the friendship as it's one of the best I've cobbled together during grad school. I have an issue where I really try to not intrude where I'm not wanted/invited and she already put on the brakes once so I've generally held that it's up to her to bring dating up again, but I'm not sure how much longer I can deal with this. I find myself sitting here feeling jealous just because a mutual friend (who lives closer to her apartment than I do) is giving her a ride to another mutual friend's dinner party tomorrow night. Being irrational just makes me more annoyed with myself without helping anything.

[DeadManSleeping]

"Hey, Hotness, do you remember like half a year back, we tried going out, but it just wasn't working with our schedules? Well, lately, I haven't really been able to stop thinking about it. I really like you, and I wanted to see if, maybe, you wanted to try again?"

Just say anything close to the above, and you'll be fine. I promise she won't be bothered. If I can get away with repeat asking a girl out, then you can too. And if she's awful to you about it, well, hopefully it won't take too long for you to realize she wasn't right for you. But, really, you'll be fine.

[John Cribati]

"Hey, Hotness, do you remember like half a year back, we tried going out, but it just wasn't working with our schedules? Well, lately, I haven't really been able to stop thinking about it. I really like you, and I wanted to see if, maybe, you wanted to try again?"

It will also probably help if you say something about "closure." I don't understand why, but girls tend to eat that up.

[DeadManSleeping]

Ehn...sounds a bit negative. Gotta leave room for that "yes"!

[Frozen_Feet]

Okay, before I resort to throwing dice on the matter, I'd like a second opinion on this:

I have a major crush on a girl. I'ts bad enough, I might as well be wearing a bright red neon sign above my head.

I'm hesitant to ask her out, however, since her Facebook status claims she's in a relationship... unfortunately, it doesn't tell with whom.

Now, here's where things get interesting: my brother also knows her, and if our screaming little demons adorable girl scouts are to be believed, he has a crush on her too. (Really, they make it sound like we're having a war over her soul or something...) His actions are supportive of it, at least on the surface.

As my brother has taken a habit of mysteriously vanishing while he's home from army, it makes me suspect they've gotten together... but if I try to ask him straight about, he won't answer. And he's being quite a prick about it. Example conversation:

Me: "Dude, where have you been for the last twelve hours and why did you have to take my car?"
Bro: "Eff u."

... which is pretty bizarre even on its own. Indeed, I often feel he's deliberately trying to obscure whatever he's been up to by giving nonsense replies. On the other hand, he's been lamenting a lack of romance in his life, but I'm not sure I can take anything he says at face value.

(Before someone accuses me of being a prying jerk, I have to admit I'm like that a bit; however, so is my brother, and he takes great glee in the fact that my instinctive reply is to tell him everything since we're, you know, brothers? My petty side is urging me to be as much of a **** towards him to get back at him, but somehow I don't see that working very well...)

So that leaves asking her... but she isn't being any less cryptic. Indeed, she's literally taken to speaking in code with her friends, and acting ridiculously coy about trivial matters near me. I know there's some grand joke being played on me, but I'm completely out of the loop in regards to what it might be.

Any ideas how I could eke out a straight answer from either, so I can stop feeling like I live in a poorly-written romantic comedy?

[Syka]

Target, have any of her circumstances actually changed? Fostering a relationship is a lot more time intensive than fostering a friendship, and if she is still packed with classes and work, her answer will probably be the same.


Also, if it WAS her trying to let you down easy, asking again will backfire. At the same point, if she DOES like you...it could work.



Ahhh humans and having way too many facets...

[DeadManSleeping]

Any ideas how I could eke out a straight answer from either, so I can stop feeling like I live in a poorly-written romantic comedy?

If he keeps taking your car, lay traps in it so he's stuck in there until you get a straight answer out of him. We recommend non-lethal ones, and make sure he's able to call you when he gets stuck.

[Coidzor]

Me: "Dude, where have you been for the last twelve hours and why did you have to take my car?"
Bro: "Eff u."

Why does he have keys to it?

If he's hot-wiring it, then, uh, yeah, you're pretty much going to have to take appropriate actions.

[Frozen_Feet]

Why are you fixating on the car? The car ain't the issue here. The keys are in the whole family's use if I don't happen to need them. That was just an example (though a real one; seriously, he even made the face) of how helpful he's being about the whole deal.

He might as well walk, or bike, or whatever. It's just that any question approaching "where have you been" or "were you with X"? are met with smug non-answers.

[The Succubus]

If he keeps taking your car, lay traps in it so he's stuck in there until you get a straight answer out of him. We recommend non-lethal ones, and make sure he's able to call you when he gets stuck.

Two words - super glue.

[Coidzor]

Why are you fixating on the car? The car ain't the issue here. The keys are in the whole family's use if I don't happen to need them. That was just an example (though a real one; seriously, he even made the face) of how helpful he's being about the whole deal.

Well, it's an unusual paradigm. Generally ownership of something like a car implies control of said car to the point where he's able to take it without asking at all implies something outside of our experiences or theft is going on.

And if you're bugged that he's taking the car without asking, maybe that means you ought to change the paradigm.

He might as well walk, or bike, or whatever. It's just that any question approaching "where have you been" or "were you with X"? are met with smug non-answers.

Then issue him some ultimatum about not wanting your car impounded because of his indiscetions about illegal activities if he's gotta be so secretive then. Either he'll cease to use your vehicle or he'll have to come up with some kind of answer.

So, y'know, a win-win situation where he either stops mooching your gas and vehicle or gives you an answer that either answers your actual question or gives you something to go on.

[Frozen_Feet]

Again, my car is tangential to the whole issue. The example was of a singular event, and I would've shrugged off him taking the car if he'd given even the briefest answer of where he was. I don't believe the situation can be solved through that piece of junk - I sure as hell ain't going to trap it, it's enough of trap on its own.

How he goes about being absent is pretty much irrelevant to me. What I need to know is why. It is out of my ability to stop him from going where ever. He can borrow the family car, or use a buss anyway if he reallye needs to get somewhere.

[DeadManSleeping]

If he can't talk about it with his family, it won't end well for him. Just ignore it, and when the inevitable bad conclusion happens, tell him he shouldn't have been such a jerk about it.

If you like, you can tell him now "Whatever's going on, if you're being this much of a jerk about it, it's going to end up sucking for you." It's always nice to be able to say "I told you so."

[WalkingTarget]

Target, have any of her circumstances actually changed? Fostering a relationship is a lot more time intensive than fostering a friendship, and if she is still packed with classes and work, her answer will probably be the same.

The research assistantship she had last year ended and she hasn't been able to find a new one, so at the moment she is still in classes, but isn't working.

Also, if it WAS her trying to let you down easy, asking again will backfire. At the same point, if she DOES like you...it could work.



Ahhh humans and having way too many facets...

Yeah, this is more or less the issue. I've decided that I need to give it another shot. I chickened out on bringing it up tonight, though.

[Odentin]

Frozen: There are myriad ways to track a person, or persons. The easiest ways, it might seem, are to get a spy gps on your car (so you can register where he's been) or if he's none too tech-savvy, turn the gps on his phone into your own personal tracker.

The second may well be illegal, depending on where you live. Be forewarned.


That may well tell you where he's at, but doesn't do a damn thing to figure out who he's with. For that, you'll need to be a bit more creative in your information gathering about her whereabouts at certain times.






Oh, and yes, I'm back. PM box is open.

[Ceric]

I heard something recently and I'm curious if it's true, so I turn to more experienced forum members.

A couple of my friends were talking about relationships, ending with the guy advising the girl to never be the one to initiate a relationship. He explained that guys 1) want relationships, 2) don't get nearly as many relationships as they want, and 3) are incredibly impulsive. So when a girl comes up and initiates, the guy will jump on the chance whether or not he actually likes the girl.

The advice came up because the one time my friend asked a guy out (just before the school year ended and summer vacation began), they he pretty much dropped all contact with her through the summer. Then three months later, he finally called her up and said they should just be friends.

I've had a similar experience, although not as bad, so the advice and reasoning makes sense to me. But that's a personal sample size of 1, so I'm curious what you guys think.

[DeadManSleeping]

People with any genitalia will pull crazy stuff. If a girl wants to ask a guy out, she should dang well ask him.

I can't say for sure if I'd go out with a girl who asked me. It's not a situation I've ever come close to encountering. But I know straight guys who've turned down date requests from girls.