Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]

[SmartAlec]

what happens to the tiny people, including tiny Doctor

When the Doctor waves to River from inside the eye, you can see the TARDIS with an open door behind him.

[dehro]

When the Doctor waves to River from inside the eye, you can see the TARDIS with an open door behind him.

oh...hadn't noticed.
so..the tardis shrinks too?.. mmh

[Androgeus]

oh...hadn't noticed.
so..the tardis shrinks too?.. mmh

time and RELATIVE dimensions in space. or it could just be miniturised by the tessalector's field

[KillianHawkeye]

oh...hadn't noticed.
so..the tardis shrinks too?.. mmh

time and RELATIVE dimensions in space. or it could just be miniturised by the tessalector's field

In "Let's Kill Hitler", River piloted the TARDIS directly into the miniaturized robot in order to save Amy and Rory. So yeah, it just shrinks when necessary I guess.

[Darth Mario]

In "Let's Kill Hitler", River piloted the TARDIS directly into the miniaturized robot in order to save Amy and Rory. So yeah, it just shrinks when necessary I guess.

Must be the Tesslector field. I'm fairly sure that the TARDIS being able to change its own size would require a working Chameleon Circuit.

[KillianHawkeye]

I don't think the chameleon circuit has anything to do with that.

EDIT: What I mean by that is I don't think it could change the size of the occupants.

[turkishproverb]

Must be the Tesslector field. I'm fairly sure that the TARDIS being able to change its own size would require a working Chameleon Circuit.

Only if the "size change" function is that closely related to the "hide me" function.

[Friv]

I don't think the chameleon circuit has anything to do with that.

EDIT: What I mean by that is I don't think it could change the size of the occupants.

It did back in Season 2!

I mean, that was, what, forty-eight years ago? And it was a mistake at the time. But still.


Or wait, no. The TARDIS changed the size of its inhabitants, but the chameleon circuit was still broken at that point, so presumably not chameleon-related.

[KillianHawkeye]

It did back in Season 2!

I mean, that was, what, forty-eight years ago? And it was a mistake at the time. But still.


Or wait, no. The TARDIS changed the size of its inhabitants, but the chameleon circuit was still broken at that point, so presumably not chameleon-related.

I would love to have the time to go back and watch the old DW series. But, alas, I do not.

[Suichimo]

Fixed points aren't so much fixed as the image of a fixed point is. I know that sounds confusing but take Water of Mars. Had the Doctor's arrogance not taken control of him to the point where he thought the laws of time didn't apply anymore, he could have taken the Mars crew to one of the billions of other livable, for a human, planets in the universe, not necessarily in the same time either, and the headlines back on Earth would've still read that Adelaide Brooke died in the nuclear explosion that happened. However, the Doctor decided to be an idiot and took the crew back to Earth on the same night that the station blew up and time corrected itself.

Wait wait wait... what happens to the tiny people, including tiny Doctor, when they cremate Robot Doctor? Also, could the tiny people fake a regeneration? Well, I guess they could, since they did.

The Doctor mentions something about getting a bit singed at the end of the finale while he's talking with Dorium, so there could've been a switch at some point.

[Calemyr]

Based on what we've seen, Fixed Points are "fixed" in terms of effect, not in terms of cause.

Vesuvius always goes off, but the actions of the pyroviles made it so that the Doctor was the one who initiated it. Without the pyroviles sucking off the heat, it would have gone off without the Doctor's help and he wouldn't have dared stop it.

Adelaide Brook's reported death always has to happen. As Suchimo points out, if the Doctor had put her somewhere else and not went on his "Timelord Victorious" monologue, her actual breathing wouldn't have been a problem.

The Doctor had to be seen being executed, to the satisfaction of the Silence, on Lake Silencio. Him actually dying isn't a requirement to the Fixed Point.

The key is not what happens at the Fixed Point, but what happens next. The Silence have to believe the Doctor died. Humanity needs to hear that Adelaide died, and Vesuvius has to go off. As long as the effect is maintained, it would appear Fixed Points can be modified. It is, however, extremely risky and if the effect changes in any measurable way the fabric rips.

[Lokey]

Spoils everything ever, particularly seasons 5 and 6.

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Let's go back to the Pandorica Opens ending and what it seems to suggest: PlasticRory kills Amy before she spawns River. TARDIS doesn't like paradox but can maybe handle it to some extent, so it doesn't want to let River out. Oh yeah, then goes boom. Can there possibly be an explanation for disembodied voice at this point that'd not suck?

The next episode seems to have a very complicated plot to hide the fact that plot doesn't work, but who cares, it's a lot of fun.

Thing that overall seems to be missed about the Doctor's death: changing anything about that has most of what they do in season 6 go poof, depending on when Amy is kidnapped. Within the premises of the show, there's enough there to make a timey-wimey catastrophe... Sure it's not crystal clear whether it was the Dr and season 6's happenings that made it a Fixed Event or those of Silence, but that's not new for Dr Who either :)

Lastly, if you don't care for Mary Sues (and I generally don't), you're watching the wrong show.

[Dr. Simon]

Continuing my plan to post what I think to be the highlights of every season of Doctor Who, old and new.

For each series I'll try to choose 2, maybe 3 of what I consider to be the best stories, which may comprise any number of actual episodes (somewhere between 1-14, typically 4 or 6). Older Who is nearly always episodic, with NuWho most episodes are self-contained. Feel free to expand on my brief comments, agree, disagree etc. This is, after all, purely subjective.

First Doctor

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Season One
Season Two
Season Three

Second Doctor

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Season Three
Season Four
Season Five
Season Six

Colour, a new Doctor, and a new feel to the program. It must be...

Season Seven (1970)
Third Doctor/Liz

Spearhead From Space – Just the change from the previous season is striking. Colour, and this one recorded all on film, with a more mature feel to the script. Some classic auton moments too as they assail the high street, and it explains where the Third Doctor gets his style from.

Doctor Who And The Silurians – Unfortunately, every Silurian story after this one has pretty much followed the same plot. Perhaps not the best Who, but not bad for this season which, too be honest, is a bit worthy and dull.

Honourable Mentions
The Ambassadors Of Death – starts well, with some good atmosphere and mystery, aided by some creepy incidental music. Gets a bit bogged down going in and out of the same cellar, and I can’t remember what the point of it all was.

[Kato]

Spoils everything ever, particularly seasons 5 and 6.

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Let's go back to the Pandorica Opens ending and what it seems to suggest: PlasticRory kills Amy before she spawns River. TARDIS doesn't like paradox but can maybe handle it to some extent, so it doesn't want to let River out. Oh yeah, then goes boom. Can there possibly be an explanation for disembodied voice at this point that'd not suck?

All the discussion of fixed points aside (my angle on this is: It is what the plot says, and that's not a whole lot. Maybe they ALWWAYS Happened this way, and maybe EVERYTHING always happened iin the exact same way, or maybe not and maybe it really is 'appearances must be the same, so history progresses as it should' or whatever... I don't really care because I'm sure not Moffat nor anyone else will ever give is a clear answer and so I will just look at things the way they happen....

okay, what I wanted to say: I like the idea, though it never occurred to me, to be honest. The series is a bit vague on paradoxes but assuming the paradoxes caused by the rip in time do not just make things go poof but anything else does then this means that would explain what happened to the Tardis. Though, it would mean since the rip as essential to thing happening this way, it itself was part of the cause of the paradox that created itself... but Moffat loves that stuff, so yeah.

[CurlyKitGirl]

Hesitant optimism require me to state that maybe, a review? But I don't know what to review though. Tomorrow? Or Thursday? Not Friday though, probably.
This is a good thing?
Perhaps?

Endless question marks?
And thematically interesting ways of writing of review that isn't just endless gushing about magical character interaction?

I'm going to kill that door.

[Reverent-One]

Hesitant optimism require me to state that maybe, a review? But I don't know what to review though.

I thought you had the next few sort-of planned out? 'Wedding of River Song', 'The Unicorn and the Wasp', then continuing on through NuWho Season 4. Or is it a question of simply which order?

[CurlyKitGirl]

I thought you had the next few sort-of planned out? 'Wedding of River Song', 'The Unicorn and the Wasp', then continuing on through NuWho Season 4. Or is it a question of simply which order?

Order.
I've had 'TUatW' on the back-burner for what, a month now? But I'm guessing from the number of pages that 'TWoRS' is contentious so . . .

Really, I'll bow to whatever people want. I have no will of mine own after all.
No food either.

I really am going to kill that door.

[Weezer]

I vote for Wedding, mostly because I want to hear your opinion on it, it was a very controversial episode to say the least.

[Kato]

I feel stupid asking but... Door? What door?
Well, whatever it is, if it is a hindrance to Curly it shall die a horrible death!

As for reviews... Me personally I'd be more interested in WoRS but if you want to get over with TUatW I understand, it's been so long and you said you love Christie, so... still, don't stress yourself, beginning of classes is more important.

[Thufir]

My vote is for Wedding of River Song.

[comicshorse]

My vote is for Wedding of River Song.

Definitely agreed

[Sanguine]

My vote is for Genesis of the Daleks.

[navar100]

This wasn't the first time the TARDIS "shrunk". It did once before with the Third Doctor and his Companion Jo Grant when it materialized inside a con-man's miniaturized zoo.

[Androgeus]

My vote is for Wedding of River Song.

My vote is for Genesis of the Daleks.

My vote is for Wedding of the Daleks!

[thegurullamen]

My vote is for Wedding of the Daleks!

The Genesis of River Song's Wasp Wedding to the Unicorn Dalek?

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The unicorn Dalek is the Rani.

[Weezer]

The Genesis of River Song's Wasp Wedding to the Unicorn Dalek?

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The unicorn Dalek is the Rani.

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And the titular Wasp is the Valeyard, or so we're led to believe...

[Eldan]

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And the titular Wasp is the Valeyard, or so we're led to believe...

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Except River Song is an Auton, and her Wasp was a fake.

[Kato]

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Except River Song is an Auton, and her Wasp was a fake.

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Oh you wacky people and your zany theories... of course River is the Valeyard and the Unicorn Dalek is the Auton. But the Wasp might be the Rani, we have to see...

[Androgeus]

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Oh you wacky people and your zany theories... of course River is the Valeyard and the Unicorn Dalek is the Auton. But the Wasp might be the Rani, we have to see...

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I know this might sound silly, but I thought they were all the Rani, just from different points in time

[Eldan]

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I know this might sound silly, but I thought they were all the Rani, just from different points in time

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Which is true.
The Valeyard is the Rani, as is Davros. Therefore, the Daleks are all also the Rani.