Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]

[Aidan305]

But the whole point of a mid-life crisis is you try to act younger than you are.

True dat. So does this mean that Tennant and Smith are a logical progression in terms of a mid-life crisis?

[Androgeus]

Nah, early forties. The Doctor's mid-life crisis.

IndeedI need more letters!

[Weezer]

IndeedI need more letters!

That's actually the first thing that popped into my head...

[Kato]

My best friend has agreed to name her first son Stormageddon.
I see no way this can backfire.

While watching I told a friend I'd get a child just to name hir that... she said I should never ever be allowed to have kids
But Sam Stormageddon (....) sounds awesome, doesn't it?

Anyway, in short. New episode.

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I liked it mostly. Smiths interaction with... damn, forgot his name. Colden? *checks* Corden, sorry. Wel, it's great, anyway. And yeah, I'm sure Curly will love both the kiss scene and any time the older women implies they are a couple. It's not companions anymore, it's partners now!
The baby comedy worked great, even though I'm not much of a baby fan. Stormageddon... aw.
Anyway, the conclusion was... well, it was no surprise. I guess, yeah, it kind of makes sense and it was kind of nice, though a bit anvil-y emphasizing the Cybers' problem with emotions to justify the backlash... meh, I can roll with it. I was actually surprised Eleven did jst jump through the glass. I expected he'd need to think of something more elaborate instead of taking that easy way.
Setup for the next episode... well, took a bit long, but I won't really complain. I guess it clarified what many, maybe even most people suspected. Also, like someone said, there was a Dalek! They lied to us! Jerks

Short note on one of Sunken's complaints... weell, one of them... including zany(?) theories.

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Well, as I and I think others as well complained at the very beginning... if River shoots to kill, she kills. If she intended to shoot at herself to kill her, she could have, also, she stops caring for the astronaut way too fast. Apparently she knew it was her there and she couldn't stop her(didn't need to protect anyone/wasn't able to, so she just did what she remembered herself doing back then. (probably she was under Silent mind control when she did it) Nothing I can proof my claims with but yeah... that's my take on it. She had to play along so whatever happened could happen. Timey wimey...

No long comment on Curly's review again... just general approval I'm not one to go for male fanservice usually but... well, it was kind of nice *cough* Though, nothing to make me all excited like her but that's for the better I think.
About everything in the episode was gold, though I kind of disliked the magic headbutt thing. It was... meh... seemed a bit stupid to me but I could roll with it.
Also, wow, that last scene must look really different if you know about the Silent... I guess I need to go back and watch it again whether you were imagining things there. (No offense, sorry)
As for your questions... spoilers
Aw, kitties.... I totally forgot about that.

By "everyone else" I'm pretty sure you just mean me.

Well, I won't feel majorly offended not being counted among Curly's fans... but a bit.

[Sanguine]

Well, I won't feel majorly offended not being counted among Curly's fans... but a bit.

Well he was the only one to express interest in Curly seeing a particular scene.

[Mkhaiwati]

Can someone doublecheck something? I seem to remember (perhaps incorrectly) something River said in the Time of Angels. When the Doctor introduces her to Amy as Dr Song, she says "oh, I am going to be a doctor. Spoilers!"

which means that her doctorhood happens later than most of the other episodes she is in. Before Silence in the Library (where she was a doctor).

But then she wouldn't be in prison for killing a "good man" would she?

I wonder if she kills someone else, then, or if that quote is correct or forgotten/mistake by Moffatt.

[Thufir]

Can someone doublecheck something? I seem to remember (perhaps incorrectly) something River said in the Time of Angels. When the Doctor introduces her to Amy as Dr Song, she says "oh, I am going to be a doctor. Spoilers!"

which means that her doctorhood happens later than most of the other episodes she is in. Before Silence in the Library (where she was a doctor).

But then she wouldn't be in prison for killing a "good man" would she?

I wonder if she kills someone else, then, or if that quote is correct or forgotten/mistake by Moffatt.

The line was "I'm going to be a professor some day am I? Spoilers!" (Emphasis mine). She's been a Doctor every time we've met her except in the library two-parter, when she was a professor, and Let's Kill Hitler.

[NikitaDarkstar]

Yhea I'm new in the thread, but I've been a Doctor Who fan for a while... either way here's my take on the latest episode.

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The Cybermen annoyed me, A LOT. Not the crashed ship, them being back, the cybermats etc. I can buy that, especially if we take the adventure games into account, I can accept them. They're just a remnant of the original cybermen, not the parallel-universe-trapped-in-the-void cybermen. (Besides the daleks and the Master pull these returning shenanigans all the time.) But how they were portrayed annoyed me. I'm not that familiar with old!who but in new!who (and the adventure games if we assume the games cybermen are the same as this episodes.) cybermen are cold, efficient killers. The Doctor is incompatible with them yet they didn't even try to kill or even stun him, they're generally not up for small-talk and if they have an entire ship and has converted at least a few people already I'm having serious issues understanding why they went about dealing with Craig the way they did. (Everything we've seen in the past suggests a far quicker and more efficient method.) And the whole exploding heads scene felt cheap,a simple shutdown would have been enough. (And since when did they start to repeat their error issues like that anyway? That struck me more like a dalek thing.).
All in all the cybermen just felt out of character to me.

The Doctor and the baby interaction was just cute, but the shushing thing got old fast.

This is a nitpick but it still bugged me. The Doctor going by "The Doctor" when getting employed in a store seemed odd to me as he has a tendency to use "John Smith" or something that at least tries to sound human and normal for things like that.

The whole "I'm going to die" self-pitying honestly just feels like Moffat rehashing the later half of season 4 to me, and honestly while Tennant and Davies could pull it off Moffat and Smith are pretty good at the whole adventure thing, but the emotional stuff feels cheesy and awkward in their hands so I really wish I wasn't seeing this right now.

All in all Moffat as a writer both pleases and annoys me. His overarching plots are amazingly fun and surprising, but his episodes falls flat on their face a bit to often for my taste, or feels like obvious rehashes. Like the last episode felt like a rehash of the Adventure game, just change the location but the rest felt similar enough. Episode before that? Anyone who's even heard the words "Greek mythology" saw that one coming. And I could go on.

But really his overall plots are interesting, I'm very curious about the Silence and the Question and he uses the time travel element quite well and keeps people on their toes, wondering. But individual episodes? Honestly, the Only episode I've REALLY enjoyed this season without having any nitpicks about etc. was the Doctors Wife.

I'm not saying Davies was perfect, gods no. He left plot-holes big enough to swallow planets, but he also got me emotionally invested enough to not give a darn. Moffat and Smith don't get to me on an emotional level, meaning I'm more prone to noticing plot issues and going "meh." (Also he REALLY needs to stop writing River Song into every other episode...!)

Either way I am looking forward to next weeks episode if only to find out how he's gonna sort this out, especially the little "the Doctor's death is a fixed point in time" issue, because, well he's been building up to this episode for two seasons now, and if he get this one right he just might redeem himself as a worthy Doctor Who writer in my eyes. :)

(Please note that these are MY opinions, I'm not asking anyone to agree with me and I don't mind if you disagree with me and I'm not here to start an argument, I just have strong opinions on this and I've tried to keep them as civil and polite as possible.)

[Tiki Snakes]

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To be fair to the Cybermen, they were specifically just 6 of them, not a ship full. They were also mostly broken and/or badly put together and they do tend to do the Borg thing sometimes of, as long as you don't actively resist/interfere with them, they will largely just ignore you and get on with what they're doing.

[KillianHawkeye]

I'm really glad the real Cybermen are back. Let's hope they actually get to do something cool next season. I wish they weren't just as easily defeated as the parallel universe ones.

Also,

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how come this episode had basically the same resolution as The Lodger? Is "Craig defeats aliens with love" becoming a meme now?

[NikitaDarkstar]

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To be fair to the Cybermen, they were specifically just 6 of them, not a ship full. They were also mostly broken and/or badly put together and they do tend to do the Borg thing sometimes of, as long as you don't actively resist/interfere with them, they will largely just ignore you and get on with what they're doing.

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True, but I can't remember a single episode of new!who were they've just let the Doctor go about his buissness after recognizing him. And I still think that six, even damaged ones should have been more of a threat. I suppose that may be more of my issue with them this time around, they didn't even feel threatening.

[Weezer]

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True, but I can't remember a single episode of new!who were they've just let the Doctor go about his buissness after recognizing him. And I still think that six, even damaged ones should have been more of a threat. I suppose that may be more of my issue with them this time around, they didn't even feel threatening.

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When did they let him go about his business? IIRC they captured him and were going to do a convoluted method to make him cyber controller, and then Craig showed up giving them a far better option. Honestly unless a big horror vibe is set up I don't find the monsters threatening at all. It is Doctor Who, you know nothing too bad is going to happen, especially if it isn't a season finale.

[NikitaDarkstar]

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When did they let him go about his business? IIRC they captured him and were going to do a convoluted method to make him cyber controller, and then Craig showed up giving them a far better option. Honestly unless a big horror vibe is set up I don't find the monsters threatening at all. It is Doctor Who, you know nothing too bad is going to happen, especially if it isn't a season finale.

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I'll have to take another look then, cause I don't remember them saying anything about making him cybercontroller. As for the horror vibe, well perhaps not so much of a horror vibe as it coming as a surprise and at least the characters treating it as a threat at least. I dunno, I can't exactly put my finger on it, but the cybermen just felt... off.

[KillianHawkeye]

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I'll have to take another look then, cause I don't remember them saying anything about making him cybercontroller.

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That'e because they weren't. The Doctor was incompatible. I don't think they started talking about cyber controllers until Craig arrived.

[Weezer]

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That'e because they weren't. The Doctor was incompatible. I don't think they started talking about cyber controllers until Craig arrived.

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Hmm. I appear to have misremembered, disregard what I said.

[Thufir]

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That'e because they weren't. The Doctor was incompatible. I don't think they started talking about cyber controllers until Craig arrived.

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No, one of them did say the Doctor should be the Cyber Controller, then the other said "No. Brain and binary vascular system incompatible." And something about how other body parts might still be useful.

[Weezer]

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No, one of them did say the Doctor should be the Cyber Controller, then the other said "No. Brain and binary vascular system incompatible." And something about how other body parts might still be useful.

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Hah! So I was right. Vindication all round.

[Giggling Ghast]

I was planning on griping about the Cybermen being underused, but in retrospect I kinda get it. If they introduced a new monster we would've needed time to have it explained to us. Whereas we already get the Cybermen, only Craig needed it explained. So there's enough of a recap for those who have somehow become fans of the new series without ever encountering the Cybers before, but the rest of the episode can focus on the funny stuff.

More or less. The broken Cybermen do pose a palpable threat to Earth, but as DW episodes go, this was clearly meant to be a breather episode.

I liked the Cybermat with the REAL TEETH, though.

[twinkletoes]

Can someone doublecheck something? I seem to remember (perhaps incorrectly) something River said in the Time of Angels. When the Doctor introduces her to Amy as Dr Song, she says "oh, I am going to be a doctor. Spoilers!"

which means that her doctorhood happens later than most of the other episodes she is in. Before Silence in the Library (where she was a doctor).

But then she wouldn't be in prison for killing a "good man" would she?

I wonder if she kills someone else, then, or if that quote is correct or forgotten/mistake by Moffatt.

Yeah, that is weird, because if I remember correctly, she earned a pardon after the events of Flesh and Stone, but in The Impossible Astronaut the prison guard said "Doctor Song, Sir."

[NikitaDarkstar]

More or less. The broken Cybermen do pose a palpable threat to Earth, but as DW episodes go, this was clearly meant to be a breather episode.

I liked the Cybermat with the REAL TEETH, though.

Oh yhea that was nice. At first I thought it looked a bit to plastic, but I got over that as soon as that lady in the toy department said she wanted to by one for her nephew. Besides, weird toy is a perfect disguise. :p

[factotum]

Yeah, that is weird, because if I remember correctly, she earned a pardon after the events of Flesh and Stone, but in The Impossible Astronaut the prison guard said "Doctor Song, Sir."

Somebody's already pointed out that Mkhaiwati was misremembering--it was her Professorship that was referred to "Time of Angels", not her doctorate.

[Dr. Simon]

All in all Moffat as a writer both pleases and annoys me. His overarching plots are amazingly fun and surprising, but his episodes falls flat on their face a bit to often for my taste, or feels like obvious rehashes. Like the last episode felt like a rehash of the Adventure game, just change the location but the rest felt similar enough. Episode before that? Anyone who's even heard the words "Greek mythology" saw that one coming. And I could go on.

Moffat didn't write either of those episodes.

As for Greek Mythology, I see your God Complex and raise you Underworld and Horns of the Nimon

[BRC]

By "everyone else" I'm pretty sure you just mean me.

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Given her enjoying of the kind of romantic chemistry between the Doctor and Craig, I'm thinking the "Doctor are you going to kiss me?" scene will provoke a very interesting reaction.

Also, while lying in bed this afternoon an interesting thought occurred, based on Curly describing the Doctor as being like a ten-year-old boy:
You could make a case for the Doctor in some ways at least regressing in the age he acts. Because while you do have the moments when his full age becomes noticeable and he's very serious about it (In fact, a significant element of series 6b has been the Doctor kind of growing up), Eleven does act like a child a lot of the time. Then Ten was in some ways rather like an angsty teen or maybe early twenties. Hormones and emotions all over the place and drama. And then Nine was more like someone a bit older, maybe late twenties or early thirties, and bitter about how his life hasn't gone quite how he would have liked it to.

Of course this only really applies to the revival. I imagine once I progress further in Classic Who I'll find this doesn't really apply to that and he just dots about a bit more.

There was an interesting theory I read once which basically said that each Regeneration of the doctor represents something the previous regeneration wished was different about himself.
9, the scarred veteran of the time war, wished he could connect with people better, so 10 was younger, handsome, more idealistic, and had a much easier time relating with humans.
10's big regret was relating almost TOO well to humanity, turning all his friends and companions into soldiers. At the same time, having seen countless aliens refuse his offers of help, forcing him to destroy them, after saying "Sorry" to too many good people who had to die, he wishes he was less idealistic, less empathetic.
As a result, he turns into 11. 11 is far more "Alien" than 10. Whereas 10 was able to disguise himself as a schoolteacher for an extended period of time, 11 has trouble blending in while sharing a flat for a few days. While 10 got involved with his companions, 11 does everything he can to get Amy and Rory back together. 11 is much more ruthless than 10, in the latest episode his usual offer of "I can take you to another planet where you can live peacefully" becomes "Shut down or I will shut you down". While 10 was the spitting image of a brilliant hero, confidant in his actions and terrible in his fury, 11 is much more flawed. He is much more of an egoist than 10, while at the same time seeming, more than ever, to be making it up as a he goes along.


I lost my train of thought here, and I don't have time to clean it up.


Edit: Also, when 11 regenerates, Twelve's first action is going to be to tear off the Bow Tie and shout "What the hell was that thing doing around my neck"

[Kato]

Edit: Also, when 11 regenerates, Twelve's first action is going to be to tear off the Bow Tie and shout "What the hell was that thing doing around my neck"

NEVER!!!!


so... since Curly didn't have time yet and there is little discussion going on... any Crazy theories on the finale? Like, what the Dalek is good for or the Pterodactyl, iirc?

[Mercenary Pen]

NEVER!!!!


so... since Burly didn't have time yet and there is little discussion going on... any Crazy theories on the finale? Like, what the Dalek is good for or the Pterodactyl, iirc?

Now, the pterodactyl, that'll be integral to the entire plot- in a way that defies all explanation more coherent than timey wibbly stuff.

[BRC]

NEVER!!!!

I think it would be funny, if I were writing Doctor Who that's what I would do.

Also, I would make the next doctor wear a Hawaiian shirt.*
so... since Burly didn't have time yet and there is little discussion going on... any Crazy theories on the finale? Like, what the Dalek is good for or the Pterodactyl, iirc?[/QUOTE]


*I should under no circumstances be allowed to write Doctor Who.

The Dalek and the Pterodactyl are working together to create the only thing that can defeat the Silence: Daleksaurus Rex.

[NikitaDarkstar]

Moffat didn't write either of those episodes.

As for Greek Mythology, I see your God Complex and raise you Underworld and Horns of the Nimon

He's the headwriter though and ok'd the episodes. And I can't say about either of those, still at season 2 of original who. (With some minor jumps here and there to look at old Master episodes. :p)

And my issue wasn't the use of mythology as inspiration (heck it's a good thing more often than not in my opinion...)... just well the episode felt a little obvious/predictable (not quite the word I'm looking for, but it'll do for now. >.<) after it was called a minotaur really. But on the other hand it had more impact than it probably would have with just some random alien species noone's ever heard of as in those who are familiar with the myth can always make up their own theories.

Meh maybe I'll warm up to it when I rewatch it once the season is over.

[Androgeus]

what the Dalek is good for?

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I also happened across this in my search

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[Weezer]

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I also happened across this in my search

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Ahh yes, amusing children, the perfect use for genocidal, racist killing machines.

[Tiki Snakes]

Ahh yes, amusing children, the perfect use for genocidal, racist killing machines.

Well, you know what they say?

"Set a deep hole with spring-loaded sides, tripwires, whirling knife blades driven by water power, broken glass and scorpions, to catch a thief."

It's nice for children to have something on their own moral and ethical level to interact with once in a while.