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  1. - Top - End - #1261
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    Default Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]

    So I'm well into Series 6 now and have come full circle with The Doctor's Wife, the first Who episode I ever watched. Yeah, it's still my favorite. Ever Neil Gaiman rocks!

    But I see that I'm not quite alone with the sentiment that this series otherwise (up until now, anyway) still isn't the bee's knees. I loved the Christmas special. There he was, back to just how I like him most - the Doctor, saving the universe, one hug at a time. But then series 6 starts and it goes back to be... OK.

    What I've noticed about the pirate episode is this: It could have been one of those great zany episodes that they put in now and then. Love & Monsters is one of those, and like Nai_Calus, I quite liked it. It didn't try to be serious. Crazy hijinks, zany monsters, plenty of time for bantering, slightly out of character, you find these breather episodes all over the RTD series. Love & Monsters didn't take itself serious, not even one bit. And it worked. I thought Love & Monsters was really funny. Cute is good word.

    And isn't that Doctor Who, really - that utter lack of respect for storytelling conventions? I sometimes liken it to a brilliant, hugely entertaining RPG campaign. There are some evenings where the players just won't concentrate on serious matters and the group lapses into silly jokes and crazy plot lines. It happens, and it's still fun. Love & Monsters? Partners in Crime? The Unicorn & the Wasp? All in that vein. You could even go way back and put Black Orchid there (which doesn't make it any better, but still.)

    But Curse of the Black Spot? Ahhh, takes itself far too serious. It could have been a great zany episode, but instead, they decided to go for serious and just a bit too much pathos. Shame.

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    Default Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]

    That is one of the the reasons why I think series 5 and especially series 6 started to fall flat for me, yes. Far too serious. Yes, they made jokes, but the storylines were never quite silly enough.
    "You raise your baton. The glass kettle drums pound out the the overture. Your vision clouds with blood. You wipe it away and continue. The xylophonist's hair bursts into a violet flame, but he continues playing. He's either a consummate professional or very drunk indeed..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    I want more mwa-ha-haaa and much less boo-hoo-hoo.

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    Default Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    That is one of the the reasons why I think series 5 and especially series 6 started to fall flat for me, yes. Far too serious. Yes, they made jokes, but the storylines were never quite silly enough.
    I'm glad I'm not alone in my thoughts on that matter.

    I am one of those heretics that actually kind of likes the RTD era more than the Moffat era, though, so you have to take my words with a grain of salt.
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    Default Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]

    No, me too. I was the one thinking the last series finale was the worst episode I had seen so far, remember? I loved Moffat when he had an episode now and then, not entire series. But I also loved RTD.
    "You raise your baton. The glass kettle drums pound out the the overture. Your vision clouds with blood. You wipe it away and continue. The xylophonist's hair bursts into a violet flame, but he continues playing. He's either a consummate professional or very drunk indeed..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    I want more mwa-ha-haaa and much less boo-hoo-hoo.

  5. - Top - End - #1265
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    Default Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]

    Quote Originally Posted by comicshorse View Post
    The Yeti ! Of all the classic monsters they pick the Yeti. Weird
    Why wierd?

    They've done daleks, cybermen, sontarans, silurians, the Master and autons, as far as I can tell the only two "classic" (recurring) bad guys yet to see a reprise are the Ice Warriors and the Yeti; and the Ice Warriors get a nod at least in The Waters of Mars.

    Considering Eleven seems closest in personality to Two (the original opponent of the yeto and the Great Itelligence) this seems logical
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    Default Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]

    I don't know the Yeti just seem to be such a old and minor monster (though I had forgotten they'd appeared twice) I'd expected the Rani, the Rutan's (please !) the Metebillian Spiders, the Draconians or the War Master before the Yeti. (Or as somebody who grew up reading the book adapations my inner kid would love to see a modern CGI'd Drashig)

    Interesting you see Eleven as closest in personality to Two (Troughton), I see your point but I was always though of him as being more like Seven (Sylvester McCoy)
    Last edited by comicshorse; 2012-03-04 at 01:28 PM.
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    Default Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]

    Quote Originally Posted by comicshorse View Post
    I don't know the Yeti just seem to be such a old and minor monster (though I had forgotten they'd appeared twice) I'd expected the Rani, the Rutan's (please !) the Metebillian Spiders, the Draconians or the War Master before the Yeti. (Or as somebody who grew up reading the book adapations my inner kid would love to see a modern CGI'd Drashig)
    While I don't mind the Yeti returning, I do agree with the point that there are other monsters and villain that would be better to revitalize. The Sea Devils, the Great Old Ones, the Ogrons, the Rani...
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    Default Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]

    +1 to Doctor Who being to Po-faced. Po-faced killed Sylvester McCoy, Paul McGann and Tom Baker. Not good seasons. Only decent Po-faced season is Hartnell's first and that was before Dr Who grew the beard.

    The Yeti may not be the only monster returning. Two classic Who monsters were hinted at returning. The Yeti was confirmed. The other may or may not happen. However, there are rumours of Zygon.
    We're all in the Monster Manual somewhere. My entry is between Howler and Hydra.

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  9. - Top - End - #1269
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    Default Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]

    Well... the Yeti were considered one of the "Big Four" back in Troughton's day (along with daleks, cybermen and ice warriors) so I guess they have more history than the others. I think with the remaining "classic" monsters its a toss-up between bringing back something known and loved, or bringing back something that was a bit crap, and doing it better (i.e. the Nimon)

    Zygons - these would be cool, I loved their organic tech.
    The Rani - eh... maybe. If they did with her what they did with the Master it could be cool. I'm torn though, because I quite like the whole Last of the Time Lords concept.
    Rutans - sure I heard a rumour that they'd do this, but I can't recall provenence. It would be good to actually see them and the sontarans fighting!
    Spiders of Metebelis 3 - The whole Planet of the Spiders was pretty baddly done; I guess they could be brought back better, kind of think the Racnoss has trodden some of the same ground.
    Draconians - That was a good story; they're not really "monsters" as such, more another culture. It would have been nice to at least seen evidence of them in crowd shots in the future and the like.
    War Master - he was killed. Again, with the Master and Rassilon we've seen Time Lords Gone Bad already, there was nothing specific about him I thought. Heck, why not bring back the Meddling Monk?
    Sea Devils - we've got modern silurians so it would make sense to have their underwater cousins, true.
    Ogrons - they might need to redesign these so that they look less like Uruk-Hai. The Judoon have kind of taken the position of idiot footsoldier creatures, although without the dalek connection.
    Great Old Ones - you've lost me on that one. Oh, do you mean the ancient vampires? They could be interesting with their backstory.

    If we're going for one-off creatures as well, I'd like to see the Wirrn again.
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  10. - Top - End - #1270
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    Default Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]

    Quote Originally Posted by Xondoure View Post
    Emphasis mine. I actually really enjoyed season six but that... eighty years does not come close to millennia.
    Couldn't agree more!
    Last edited by Hopeless; 2012-03-06 at 07:02 AM.

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    Default Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]

    Surely the solitude and ageing changes matters greatly?
    "Three blokes walk into a pub. One of them is a little bit stupid, and the whole scene unfolds with a tedious inevitability." - Bill Bailey
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    Default Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]

    Quote Originally Posted by Xondoure View Post
    Emphasis mine. I actually really enjoyed season six but that... eighty years does not come close to millennia.
    There are Differences.
    Rory knew exactly what to expect, Amy didn't. She didn't know if they would ever return and even had a message from her future self that told her they wouldn't.

    Rory was just bored during his time. Amy was fighting for her life and she was aging.

    And waiting for 36 years doesn't become easier just because someone else has waited longer.

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    Default Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]

    On TGWW:
    The main difference between Rory and Amy's waiting to me was the matter of choice. Rory chose to stay and protect Amy. Amy was from her point of view abandoned for the 36 years. So her feelings are somewhat justifiable.

    Also, even though Rory is mentioned to have been appearing in history, I don't think he was constantly involved in society during his tenure. We see him sitting on the ledge when the doctor left him, and I think that would be how he spent the majority of his time.

    But yea. 36 pales in Comparison to Rory's wait.

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    Default Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]

    I think that Rory is just the more centered character. He chose to stay, yes, but I think he is also just the more steadfast and patient person between the two of them. Note, though, that Amy never developed hate for Rory, so there's at least a trace of spirit left in her...

    On a vaguely related matter: What does "fish fingers and custard" exactly mean to Eleven in Let's Kill Hitler? Does the phrase just give him hope (because Amy already used that once to assure it was really her)? Or have I missed something?

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    Default Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunfall View Post
    On a vaguely related matter: What does "fish fingers and custard" exactly mean to Eleven in Let's Kill Hitler? Does the phrase just give him hope (because Amy already used that once to assure it was really her)? Or have I missed something?
    Yes, evidently you've missed the episode "Eleventh Hour". It's to do with Amy's first encounter with the Doctor.
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    Default Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Simon View Post
    Yes, evidently you've missed the episode "Eleventh Hour". It's to do with Amy's first encounter with the Doctor.
    That's not what I meant. Wait, I'll better spoiler the rest...
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    What I mean is this: how does that particular memory help him in this moment?

    He's dying from a poison for which there is no cure, and which inhibits his ability to regenerate. He's just asked the vocal interface or watchamacallit if there's any hope at all, and after telling him again and again that he only has half an hour left, she suddenly says "fish fingers and custard". And it seems to give him an idea. But the next time we see him, he's still dying. He's just changed into a tailcoat and donned a (very cool) sonic walking stick. But why?

    Can someone explain? I just don't seem to see the relevance of a memory where he first met Amy to dying in a tailcoat...

    So what did I miss?

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    Default Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]

    The main difference between Amy and Rory's wait, for me, was that Amy's was written really well in an incredibly good episode, and Rory's seemed like it was thrown in and then never really dealt with, except to create some tension. So he's technically twice as old as the Doctor now? Yeah he's still pretty much the same.

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    Default Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaros View Post
    The main difference between Amy and Rory's wait, for me, was that Amy's was written really well in an incredibly good episode, and Rory's seemed like it was thrown in and then never really dealt with, except to create some tension. So he's technically twice as old as the Doctor now? Yeah he's still pretty much the same.
    Well he only half has those memories. They're available to him but feel almost like a dream. Or however they explained it.
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    Default Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaros View Post
    The main difference between Amy and Rory's wait, for me, was that Amy's was written really well in an incredibly good episode, and Rory's seemed like it was thrown in and then never really dealt with, except to create some tension. So he's technically twice as old as the Doctor now? Yeah he's still pretty much the same.
    True. And Karen Gillan did a great job, too! It was great episode that presented a brilliant dilemma. Rory's story was also great, but sadly never too much elaborated on...

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    Default Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]

    Meh, LKH, there's just too much meta and callouts. Great production values on that episode though.

    The missing piece r.e. young Amy is the Doctor saying I can be brave for her or something along that line. Up in the air whether or not the Doctor imagined the voice interface saying it too.

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    Default Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunfall View Post
    True. And Karen Gillan did a great job, too! It was great episode that presented a brilliant dilemma. Rory's story was also great, but sadly never too much elaborated on...
    I think that's another problem with Moffat in the last two series: he does not elaborate.

    The last season finale had Holy Roman Emperor Churchill, Pterodactyls in Central Park and trains running into the pyramids of Gize owned by a secret organization. All potentially great ideas.
    But they were all on screen for about 20 seconds and left absolutely no impact. They were just kind of there, and I think I had that feeling a lot this last season. Fascinating things we only glimpsed as we ran past on the way to something else that was ultimately less interesting.
    Last edited by Eldan; 2012-03-06 at 10:00 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    I want more mwa-ha-haaa and much less boo-hoo-hoo.

  22. - Top - End - #1282
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    Default Dr. Si's Old Who Recommendations

    Continuing my plan to post what I think to be the highlights of every season of Doctor Who, old and new.

    For each series I choose 2 or 3 of what I consider to be the best stories, and a selection of also-rans. "Stories" may comprise any number of actual episodes (somewhere between 1-14, typically 4 or 6). Older Who is nearly always episodic, with NuWho most episodes are self-contained. Feel free to expand on my brief comments, agree, disagree etc. This is, after all, purely subjective.

    First Doctor

    Second Doctor

    Third Doctor

    Fourth Doctor

    Fifth Doctor


    Thanks Sunfall for the mention, glad you find it useful. I probably should have included The Black Orchid as an honourable mention as it's an enjoyable little story. Unusual in that it is a pure historical like the First Doctor stories, rather than aliens meddling in an earlier part of Earth's history. As for Caves of Androzani, well, that one's on the way...

    Something else I should have mentioned in the previous post, although perhaps it's more noticable in this series, is that from the Fifth Doctor's tenure onwards there is a trend towards guest star appearances. Earlier seasons had the odd appearance by an actor who was known for other work, but it becomes almost standard here to feature someone who (in the early 80s) was a well-known TV face. Stratford Johns, Beryl Reid, Nerys Hughes, Liza Goddard, These may not mean much to you youngsters out there, but trust me they were once very well known

    Season Twenty (1983)
    Fifth Doctor/Nyssa/Tegan/Turlough

    Snakedance – more Mara madness, this time with Martin Clunes giving an excellent performance as a bored, spoilt princeling (his first TV role, I believe, so he doesn't count as a sleb guest like those given above). Not quite as different overall as Kinda, but a good sequel nonetheless.

    Enlightenment – another one for the “fun” category, the image of sailing ships in space, racing for an unspecified prize, is one that has stuck with me for years. I like the idea of the Eternals as well – immortal, but sterile and empty. The way the First Officer follows Tegan around is very creepy.

    Honourable Mentions
    Mawdryn Undead – notably because of the innovative split-time storyline, plus useful for introducing Turlough and the Black Guardian trilogy. Not sure about the Brig becoming a maths teacher (makes more sense when you know that they were originally hoping for the return of Ian Chesterton), and one of those stories where I can’t remember why the aliens were doing what they were doing. The exposed brains were nicely gruesome, though.

    The Five Doctors – not really part of Season Twenty, more a special by itself. Sadly not the classic it ought to be; too many characters with not enough to usefully do, and not much attempt to make the location look very alien – I spent a lot of time admiring the dry-stone walling skills of the Time Lords. Still, fun in its own way, just wish the Doctors had spent more time together. Oh yes, and of course this is the story that gave us the worst delivery of a line in Doctor Who
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    Default Re: Dr. Si's Old Who Recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Simon View Post
    Thanks Sunfall for the mention, glad you find it useful. I probably should have included The Black Orchid as an honourable mention as it's an enjoyable little story. Unusual in that it is a pure historical like the First Doctor stories, rather than aliens meddling in an earlier part of Earth's history. As for Caves of Androzani, well, that one's on the way...
    Oh, you’re very welcome. It’s useful to have a guide for those droves and droves of classic episodes Yeah, Black Orchid deserves an honorable mention. The zaniness! The zaniness! (Is that even a word?) That clown costume gave me nightmares, though

    So I’m through with Series 6, and I must concur on the not elaborating part. It went awfully quick… I quite liked the season from Let’s Kill Hitler on – more so than Series 5, but I can’t stave off the feeling that Moff dropped the ball in the finale. And regarding the titular wedding…

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    So he didn’t tell her his name, then? He just told her to look into his eyes? So how does she know his name in Silence in the Library?

    And speaking of Silence, “There’s only one time I could (tell anyone my name)” then refers to the wedding? Or rather really to that “no lying, no skirting the answer” point later in time? On the fields of Trenzalore? Hmmm…

    BTW, I couldn’t stave off a little moment of satisfaction when it turned out that River had “killed” the Teselecta. I knew it!

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    Default Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]

    This isn't Star Wars, things happen off screen :)

    Recently saw an old Moffat interview and his series 5 commentaries. Frustrating for me that most of my favorite bits from his eps tend to be the quick we need another X minutes in the ep, slap something together scenes which fall outside his view of what a Dr Who ep should be about.

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    Default Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]

    Quote Originally Posted by LokeyITP View Post
    This isn't Star Wars, things happen off screen :)

    Recently saw an old Moffat interview and his series 5 commentaries. Frustrating for me that most of my favorite bits from his eps tend to be the quick we need another X minutes in the ep, slap something together scenes which fall outside his view of what a Dr Who ep should be about.
    Which scenes? I knew the type writer scene from the empty child but what else?

    Made a mistake. I said Season 7 would have 14 eps. Wrong. We've already had one of the eps. The Doctor Widow and Wardrobe. So Moffat has 4 eps left to write.
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    It's nice to see someone saying it isn't for once, the forum IQ did just go up. Please have a cookie Sunken Valley.
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    Default Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]

    Donna + Dr in the beginning of SitL, which was ok. Scene in the Tardis when they land in AToA. "You can't run from your future." "I can run from anything I like, time is not the boss of me." Some other gems in there too.

    Which kind of runs counter to the other thing I like about say the Empty Child: everything contributes to the story, which is even better when it's not obvious it's doing so. I gave it a run through looking for scenes that could be cut, only thing I saw is some repeat dialog (the catch everyone up at the beginning of part 2).

    Forgot to mention Party Animals is on Hulu, if you're in the US you can see what they mean when they say Matt Smith is the Dr :) (Contains sex, drugs, language, Parliamentary Politics and the cynicism involved with that. Ok storylines, a bit people do stupid things to advance the plot or keep secrets to advance the plot, but not enough to disgust me. Mostly great acting and writing, good production values.)
    Last edited by LokeyITP; 2012-03-09 at 07:39 PM.

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    Default Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]

    All hail the mighty Chd and his mad avatar-drawing skills.

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    Default Dr. Si's Old Who Recommendations

    Continuing my plan to post what I think to be the highlights of every season of Doctor Who, old and new.

    For each series I choose 2 or 3 of what I consider to be the best stories, and a selection of also-rans. "Stories" may comprise any number of actual episodes (somewhere between 1-14, typically 4 or 6). Older Who is nearly always episodic, with NuWho most episodes are self-contained. Feel free to expand on my brief comments, agree, disagree etc. This is, after all, purely subjective.

    First Doctor

    Second Doctor

    Third Doctor

    Fourth Doctor

    Fifth Doctor


    And so we bid farewell to Peter Davison's Doctor and move into what feels like the end-game for Classic Who, as the tenures of each Doctor is short and the seasons are of variable and largely diminishing quality. This season, too, has its ups and downs but the good episodes are generally well done; overall this season is surpisingly dark for a Doctor with a slightly lighter touch.

    Season Twenty One (1984)
    Fifth Doctor /Tegan/Turlough/Peri

    Frontios – the Tractators, once revealed, are a bit disappointing, but this one has good atmosphere and the guest characters are all convincingly three-dimensional with their own agendas.

    The Caves of Androzani – another quite gritty one for Peter Davison, superbly uncompromising in exploring its unusually grim themes of drug smuggling, gun-running, political corruption and revenge. Also snappily played and directed. Peter Davison’s death scene is completely upstaged by Nicola Bryant’s cleavage (honestly, you can’t not look. "My two co-stars" was how Peter Davison put it, I believe )

    Honourable Mentions
    The Awakening – really an episode too short to fully do it justice, so that the climax feels rushed, and also a bit too close to The Daemons for comfort, but tightly scripted and well played by all.

    Resurrection Of The Daleks – yes, yes, more daleks, although not many in this episode, really. A bit of a silly runaround, but also enjoyably hard-boiled with cynical mercenaries and bored prison guards. Nice how being a famous guest star doesn't save you from extermination.
    The Lazy GM series. Lovingly crafted pre-gen monsters for Pathfinder and OGL d20 fantasy.

  29. - Top - End - #1289
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Xondoure's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    I'm sure it's somewhere
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]

    Quote Originally Posted by dehro View Post
    Has to be a troll. Has to be.
    Avatar Credit: the very talented PseudoStraw. Full image:
    Spoiler
    Show


    3DS Friend Code: 3411-1771-4133
    Friend Safari: Dunsparce, Minccinno, Eevee

  30. - Top - End - #1290
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Dogmantra's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    With Uncle Crassius

    Default Re: Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]

    So I watched Blink again recently and the Doctor says some interesting stuff at the end (spoilers for latest series)

    Spoiler
    Show
    In an episode by Moffat, he says how he keeps meeting people in the wrong order and that he's bad at weddings, especially his own.

    Throwaway line or was Moffat really using foreshadowing like three series in advance?
    BANG → !
    OH LOOK AT HER/.../YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN/YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN/YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN MEAN/RICHARDS

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