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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Exelbirth View Post
    I toyed a bit with Pistolero, but if I remember correctly, pistol training gives me a + to both attack and damage, with 5 max as straight Pistolero, and gun training gives me a + to damage equal to my dex. Since I plan on having a high dex using a ranged weapon, gun training would be the better option, so I agree with stopping before taking the next level with gun training.

    Also, I was looking at the grit feat Leaping Shot, and I was wondering how that would apply with skirmish. Would I be able to make three sneak attacks at the expense of going prone, or would it only count the first one still, making the feat a bad option?
    Gun/Pistol Training (book may be different, I don't have it, I do have the pfsrd though)
    Gunslinger Pistolero
    Both read "almost" identically.
    Both give you straight Dex-to-Damage, and reduce the misfire chance by 2.
    (normal) Gun Training let's you add different types of Firearms as you level.
    Pistol Training adds points of bonus damage as you level, and at 13 lets you ignore ALL misfires (from a 1-handed gun).
    If you take at most 8 levels of Gunslinger then there is effectively no difference, and at level 9 you'd only gain +1 damage with pistols anyway.
    Either way, I'd go Pistolero for the Up-Close-And-Deadly Deed.

    As far as Skirmish+Leaping Shot, you would only get Sneak Attack on the first shot (if you can catch the target flat-footed then both get the damage anyway).
    But there is no reloading during a Leaping Shot, so you'll probably only get 2 shots (Alchemist and Summoner are the only classes that can have extra arms).
    Leaping Shot can still come in handy even without Sneak Attack or Extra Arms. You can shoot during ANY part of the move. First round of combat? Move closer and Fire twice. Badguys getting too close? Fire off two shots and beat a retreat. Or, if the terrain/movement allows it, spend half of your movement to get within Touch-AC range, fire, and then retreat.

    I also recommend getting the Distance enchantment on your guns, it doubles the range you can target Touch AC.

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by grarrrg View Post
    I also recommend getting the Distance enchantment on your guns, it doubles the range you can target Touch AC.
    I was definitely planning on the distance enchantment, to make full use of the rogue's 30 foot sneak attack range.

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    or you could have any range of sneak attacks with sniper goggles

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by gartius View Post
    or you could have any range of sneak attacks with sniper goggles
    While handy, we want to sneak within the penetration range of the weapon, which sniper goggles doesn't change.
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    While handy, we want to sneak within the penetration range of the weapon, which sniper goggles doesn't change.
    Forget about range with the goggles, read the last line "When making ranged sneak attacks within 30 feet, the wearer gains a +2 circumstance bonus on each sneak attack damage die."
    CHA-CHING!

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Finally got the last deeds done. The next section should roll about a bit quicker, as I can just grab the info from the old guide and touch it up. It'll slow down a bit again as I review the feats and add UC feats to the mix. We shall see...
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    Finally got the last deeds done. The next section should roll about a bit quicker, as I can just grab the info from the old guide and touch it up. It'll slow down a bit again as I review the feats and add UC feats to the mix. We shall see...
    You may want to add an extra notation to "Expert Loading" that Mysterious Stranger trades Quick Clear away, making it somewhat useful for them.
    Then again, at 5th level Stranger can ignore Cha-mod-# Misfires per day.

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by grarrrg View Post
    Forget about range with the goggles, read the last line "When making ranged sneak attacks within 30 feet, the wearer gains a +2 circumstance bonus on each sneak attack damage die."
    CHA-CHING!
    So does that mean that your sneak attack becomes xd6+2*x? Because that sounds like the perfect item to get later in the game if it does.

    Sometime this week, I'll be finished with that gunrogue, and if anyone's interested, I'll post the build here if that's alright.

    Also randomly started toying with making a Gunzerker build (tank variant slinger/barbarian combo with other classes potentially mixed in, if useful.)
    Last edited by Exelbirth; 2011-09-08 at 05:32 AM.

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    I'm pretty sure that a Large (or half-giant) gunslinger can use Lightning Reload to reload a cannon as a swift action. That seems worth noting.

    Musket Master also seems like it would let you reload a cannon as if it were a one-handed firearm.
    Last edited by Prime32; 2011-09-08 at 08:44 AM.
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Prime32 View Post
    I'm pretty sure that a Large (or half-giant) gunslinger can use Lightning Reload to reload a cannon as a swift action. That seems worth noting.

    Musket Master also seems like it would let you reload a cannon as if it were a one-handed firearm.
    I was going to include things you can do with cannons and mortars in their own section, as that's a bit outside the norm, really. I wanted to just deal with regular firearms in the deeds section, given siege weapons are also on the expensive side of things and the rules for large gunslingers with cannons is a bit unclear, given they don't give a weight for any of them, just that they can be wielded.
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    the rules for large gunslingers with cannons is a bit unclear, given they don't give a weight for any of them, just that they can be wielded.
    Eh?
    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/firearms
    Inappropriately Sized Firearms: You cannot make optimum use of a firearm that is not properly sized for you. A cumulative 2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between your size and the size of the firearm. If you are not proficient with the firearm, a 4 nonproficiency penalty also applies. The size of a firearm never affects how many hands you need to use to shoot it, the exception being siege firearms and Large or larger creatures. In most cases, a Large or larger creature can use a siege firearm as a two-handed firearm, but the creature takes a 4 penalty for using it this way because of its awkwardness.
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Prime32 View Post
    Eh?
    Yeah, I know it says that they can wield them as two-handed firearms and they take a penalty. But, to wield them, don't you need to be able to CARRY it? What good is a being able to wield a cannon if you can't adjust your aim? Maybe I'm overthinking how much cannons weigh in comparison to carrying capacity, encumbrance rules are just one of my pet peeves that I have to look at it. Given a quick Googling puts cannons between 500-3500 lbs, it makes me wonder, yknow? It doesn't help that the only thing we have to go by is the weight of the ammo and none of the actual dimensions of a large cannon or mortar to extrapolate it.

    By my best guess, Large cannons are much like Demi-Cannons, which weigh up to 5600 lbs. I mean, it's cool that we CAN use cannons individually, it's the matter of HOW we manage it that bothers me.
    Last edited by Cieyrin; 2011-09-09 at 10:06 AM.
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    Yeah, I know it says that they can wield them as two-handed firearms and they take a penalty. But, to wield them, don't you need to be able to CARRY it? What good is a being able to wield a cannon if you can't adjust your aim? Maybe I'm overthinking how much cannons weigh in comparison to carrying capacity, encumbrance rules are just one of my pet peeves that I have to look at it. Given a quick Googling puts cannons between 500-3500 lbs, it makes me wonder, yknow? It doesn't help that the only thing we have to go by is the weight of the ammo and none of the actual dimensions of a large cannon or mortar to extrapolate it.

    By my best guess, Large cannons are much like Demi-Cannons, which weigh up to 5600 lbs. I mean, it's cool that we CAN use cannons individually, it's the matter of HOW we manage it that bothers me.
    I agree that they should have a weight posted. I mean, if they weigh that much, I think the only creatures that could wield them would be the strongest of giants, and not much else. Perhaps titans.

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    You could always make them out of mithral? There there's the muleback cords. Being Large doubles your carrying capacity and being a quadruped increases it by 50% - a Large quadruped with 20 Str can carry 1,200lbs as a light load or 3,600lbs as a heavy load.

    Plus, real-world culverins weigh about 4,500lbs, while PF culverins weigh 40lbs.

    A lot of groups don't keep track of carrying capacity anyway.
    Last edited by Prime32; 2011-09-09 at 02:45 PM.
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Prime32 View Post
    You could always make them out of mithral? There there's the muleback cords. Being Large doubles your carrying capacity and being a quadruped increases it by 50% - a Large quadruped with 20 Str can carry 1,200lbs as a light load or 3,600lbs as a heavy load.
    I'll definitely make some notes on it when I get that far. Probably gonna want a bag of holding for transporting your cannon, ammo and guns so you aren't staggering everywhere at 5' a round, as well. In any case, best to provide back up for DMs calling shenanigans, y'know?

    Plus, real-world culverins weigh about 4,500lbs, while PF culverins weigh 40lbs.
    The text description has this to note:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimate Combat, pg 137
    Note that these statistics simulate only the original, hand-held culverins - their larger descendents are considered cannons and are dealt with in the section on siege weapons.
    Paizo occasionally does proper research.
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Alright, so this is my skirmisher gunslinger that I plotted out. At level 20 she essentially has an attack bonus of 26/21/16/11, including the point blank bonus as you'd always want to be in the pistol's first range increment to ignore armor.

    Level 1: Gunslinger, for the free gun and other goodies being a gunslinger gets you. You'll want to choose pistol as that loads the fastest, especially with alchemical cartridges, though you could probably do a musket man version as well, provided you stay within 30 feet of your target for the skirmish bonus you'll get later.

    Level 2: Go with rogue so you can start grinding to the skirmish ability fast.

    Level 3: Another rogue, choosing mending with her minor magic rogue talent, allowing you to fix your gun if it breaks.

    Level 4: I decided to go with gunslinger here and up the defense a bit.

    Level 5: Another rogue level

    Level 6: You get scout's charge with this rogue level, which is a bit pointless in the build, but you can use your rogue talent to get the vanish spell with major magic, allowing you to turn invisible twice a day for extra sneak attacks or just to get out of a bad situation.

    Level 7: Gunslinger, it's about time you got some deeds added.

    Level 8: more rogue, higher sneak attack.

    Level 9: two more levels of rogue to go after this, use rogue talent to get weapon training with your chosen firearm.

    Level 10: more rogue sneak damage with this one.

    Level 11: Finally, the skirmish ability. Now you can move 15 feet each round (it says moving more than ten, so i figured fifteen was safe) and apply sneak attack damage with each shot. If you're using alchemical cartridges, this means that each round you can do 1d8+4d6 damage vs touch ac.

    Level 12-20: all the rest I did as gunslinger, mostly to get a decent attack bonus, plus the lightning reload deed making it so I could use regular bullets instead of misfire increasing cartridges.

    I'll go over feats in the next post.

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Skirmish slinger feats

    1: Rapid Reload (chosen weapon) We want to go for rate of fire here people

    3: Point Blank; Going to be spending a lot of time close to the enemy, let's make the best of it all.

    5: Precise shot; Mostly to compensate for those pesky allies getting in the way

    7: Dodge; never hurts to get hit less often

    9: Wind Stance; again, let's not get hit. This also works well with the skirmish ability.

    11: Improved Critical; better chance of making them seriously hurt

    13: Critical Focus; Better chance of landing that better chance

    15: Mobility; just another way of making sure they can't hit ya.

    17: Staggering Critical; slow them down a bit

    19: Stunning Critical; make them stop moving completely, granting you free sneak attacks with a full attack? Why wouldn't you want this? (Mainly if you have a revolver or pepperbox I would assume)

    Bonus Feat 1: Deadly Aim; might as well squeeze out as much damage as possible.

    Bonus Feat 2: Improved Precise Shot/Extra Grit; Either make sure you hit anyone, or get a few more fancy tricks.

    Bonus Feat 3: Signature Deed; I chose this one for the hell of it mostly, and picked Dead Shot so I could do that whenever I felt like it.

    Deeds: a lot of the deeds are mostly pointless as they just make you look cool or are very situational.

    In the end, the character I chose for this ends up being fairly deadly on paper, an elf that does 1d8+6+1 (point blank) +4d6 sneak attack damage per round, +any other modifiers you get. She has yet to be tested in a game.
    Last edited by Exelbirth; 2011-09-14 at 02:23 PM. Reason: Feat change.

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    Post Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Exelbirth View Post
    ...(Rogunslinger or Gunslingue)...
    What Race did you go with?

    I've since updated my Gundolon build to include some Rogue. And have a couple things to suggest.

    I would skip Lightning Stance, it only works if you Move twice or withdraw, meaning no shooting that round.
    Depending on the terrain you'll be fighting in, Mobility might be a better option. Since you have to move to trigger Skirmish anyway, you may find yourself moving into/through threatened squares.

    Might also consider Point Blank Master so you don't provoke AoO's when you shoot next to something.

    NOTE: Depending on pending Errata/FAQ's all of the following may or may not be fully legal. Going strictly by RAW it is not, but it makes perfect sense for RAI.
    Take the Rogue talent "Grit". You technically need the Firearm Training talent to quality, but all Firearm Training gives you is Exo-Prof-Firearm anyway, which you will have from Gunslinger. Grit-Talent gives you Ameteur Gunslinger Feat and the Deed Feat of your choice. Again, since you have Gunslinger levels (i.e. Grit) already, the Ameteur converts to Extra Grit.
    End result is 2 feats for the price of 1 talent.

    You can also take more than one Archetype (so long as they don't trade away the same thing). Take Sniper-Rogue (RAW only works with bows/X-bows, RAI it could/should apply to Firearms) to go along with Scout-Rogue, you trade away Trapfinding, but gain reduced penalties on long range shots at level 1, and starting at level 3 an increase on Sneak Attack damage range. Assuming you got the Distance enchantment on your guns (which you did of course) you'll be able to Sneak Attack touch-AC at a range of 40ft.
    Last edited by grarrrg; 2011-09-14 at 11:46 AM.

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    In case people are all wondering why this isn't progressing very quickly, it's due to financial difficulties on my part and the stressing out that goes with it. The forums are a way I de-stress but writing a handbook, with the analysis and formatting, pushes beyond that, which kinda sucks my will for getting work done on it in a timely manner. Feel free to use the thread for builds and ideas as you have been and I'll get what work I can done on it as I'm able to, time willing.
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    In case people are all wondering why this isn't progressing very quickly, it's due to financial difficulties on my part and the stressing out that goes with it. The forums are a way I de-stress but writing a handbook, with the analysis and formatting, pushes beyond that, which kinda sucks my will for getting work done on it in a timely manner. Feel free to use the thread for builds and ideas as you have been and I'll get what work I can done on it as I'm able to, time willing.
    There's a Gunslinger Handbook?

    SWEET!

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by grarrrg View Post
    What Race did you go with?

    I've since updated my Gundolon build to include some Rogue. And have a couple things to suggest.

    I would skip Lightning Stance, it only works if you Move twice or withdraw, meaning no shooting that round.
    Depending on the terrain you'll be fighting in, Mobility might be a better option. Since you have to move to trigger Skirmish anyway, you may find yourself moving into/through threatened squares.

    Might also consider Point Blank Master so you don't provoke AoO's when you shoot next to something.

    NOTE: Depending on pending Errata/FAQ's all of the following may or may not be fully legal. Going strictly by RAW it is not, but it makes perfect sense for RAI.
    Take the Rogue talent "Grit". You technically need the Firearm Training talent to quality, but all Firearm Training gives you is Exo-Prof-Firearm anyway, which you will have from Gunslinger. Grit-Talent gives you Ameteur Gunslinger Feat and the Deed Feat of your choice. Again, since you have Gunslinger levels (i.e. Grit) already, the Ameteur converts to Extra Grit.
    End result is 2 feats for the price of 1 talent.

    You can also take more than one Archetype (so long as they don't trade away the same thing). Take Sniper-Rogue (RAW only works with bows/X-bows, RAI it could/should apply to Firearms) to go along with Scout-Rogue, you trade away Trapfinding, but gain reduced penalties on long range shots at level 1, and starting at level 3 an increase on Sneak Attack damage range. Assuming you got the Distance enchantment on your guns (which you did of course) you'll be able to Sneak Attack touch-AC at a range of 40ft.
    I just assumed lightning stance worked the same as wind stance. Mistake on my part, I should always double check these things. Replacing that with mobility.

    I thought about point blank master, but after I saw you needed weapon specialization I skipped over it, since you have to be a fighter for it, and I haven't seen anything saying gunslinger levels satisfy fighter requirements.

    Personally I think the sniper archetype would fit better if one was using the musket master archetype, which would allow for the 40ft sneak attack range for free, and a higher amount of base damage. Plus, sniper would allow for a 50ft sneak attack range with this build, and with the distance enchantment, you can take full advantage of the wider range. The downside would be firing at a target at ranges 35-50 would be you lose your point blank bonuses, though the loss of that could be considered acceptable.

    I mostly ignore extra grit, since a lot of the deeds you can do with this build are either useless, or take up only one grit or none. Since you'll probably be doing the most damage as this character, you'll likely be felling most of the enemies, so grit shouldn't be a problem. The problem with deed feats is you have to qualify for them, and I'm not sure this build meets the requirements of a few of the useful ones.

    Oh, and I said at the bottom I used an elf.
    Last edited by Exelbirth; 2011-09-14 at 02:23 PM.

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Exelbirth View Post
    I just assumed lightning stance worked the same as wind stance. Mistake on my part, I should always double check these things. Replacing that with mobility.

    I thought about point blank master, but after I saw you needed weapon specialization I skipped over it, since you have to be a fighter for it, and I haven't seen anything saying gunslinger levels satisfy fighter requirements.
    Since you're going mobility anyways, Deft Shootist fills in Point Blank Master without limiting you to one gun. It's a tier 2 deed in grit cost, so no grit expediture, just have grit to use. Plus, Deft Shootist is both no AoO on both shooting and reload.

    Since Gunslingers aren't Fighter variants anymore, I think they lost the 'qualify as fighter' beyond that their bonus feats can be combat feats.
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    Since you're going mobility anyways, Deft Shootist fills in Point Blank Master without limiting you to one gun. It's a tier 2 deed in grit cost, so no grit expediture, just have grit to use. Plus, Deft Shootist is both no AoO on both shooting and reload.

    Since Gunslingers aren't Fighter variants anymore, I think they lost the 'qualify as fighter' beyond that their bonus feats can be combat feats.
    It does suck that they lose that, yet they're still kinda built to replace fighter altogether, especially with that ignore armor bonus the guns have. In a way they should automatically qualify for the entire weapon focus tree, since they specialize in firearms.

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    Since you're going mobility anyways, Deft Shootist fills in Point Blank Master without limiting you to one gun. It's a tier 2 deed in grit cost, so no grit expediture, just have grit to use. Plus, Deft Shootist is both no AoO on both shooting and reload.
    Wow, how did I miss Deft Shootist? Soooo much better than Point Blank Master. *edit's Gundolon feats*
    I'm keeping the Weapon Specialization though. +2 damage on each of 10+ weapons is too good to pass up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Exelbirth View Post
    Oh, and I said at the bottom I used an elf.
    If I may, why an Elf? Flavor?
    Half-Elf or Human would both be more optimal choices.

    Half-Elf would let you have both Rogue and Gunslinger as Favored Classes, and you could trade in the poor Skill Focus for a +2 Will save.

    Human can effectively have the same Stat bonus without the penalties (put +Any in Dex, and their +1 skill point is almost the same as +2 Int), and any bonus feat of your choice.

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by grarrrg View Post
    Wow, how did I miss Deft Shootist? Soooo much better than Point Blank Master. *edit's Gundolon feats*
    Because I suck and haven't written up the feat section to the Handbook?
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by grarrrg View Post
    If I may, why an Elf? Flavor?
    Half-Elf or Human would both be more optimal choices.

    Half-Elf would let you have both Rogue and Gunslinger as Favored Classes, and you could trade in the poor Skill Focus for a +2 Will save.

    Human can effectively have the same Stat bonus without the penalties (put +Any in Dex, and their +1 skill point is almost the same as +2 Int), and any bonus feat of your choice.
    I actually forgot to write down which race, and looking at it again, I believe I did choose half-elf.

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by grarrrg View Post
    Submission for the Builds section. (feel free to edit down for space)
    I would like if someone could check my math (accuracy/damage per shot/etc...)
    I was running the Gundolon (I like the name btw) by my group and they seemed quite offended. I believe the term "rules raping" was used. (apologies if that term offends - new to the boards - feel free to slap me for it)

    Here are the two big issues:

    1. When you summon the eidolon, you use its base attack. Not add to your own. You would have a BAB of 8 with a level 10 eidolon. It replaces the character's BAB, including those gained from classes.
    2. You don't get that many attacks. You only get as many attacks as the eidolon gets, which maxes at 5 at level 10.


    What do you think?
    Last edited by Chibbell; 2011-09-15 at 11:37 AM.

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Chibbell View Post
    I was running the Gundolon (I like the name btw) by my group and they seemed quite offended. I believe the term "rules raping" was used. (apologies if that term offends - new to the boards - feel free to slap me for it)

    Here are the two big issues:

    1. When you summon the eidolon, you use its base attack. Not add to your own. You would have a BAB of 8 with a level 10 eidolon.
    2. You don't get that many attacks. You only get as many attacks as the eidolon gets, which maxes at 5 at level 10.


    What do you think? I think the 17 BAB is correct. Mostly I'm curious about how to get all those attacks at that bonus. :)
    From my understanding of Synthesists (which seems to be an enbattled field of study atm), the current ruling on bound synthesists is that the Eidilon's BAB stacks with other classes they have. As for the number of attacks limits, that's natural attacks, not manufactured like the Gundolon is. Again, I can't say I'm not on the up-and-up on the current state of Synthesists, since FAQs and unofficial errata are flying around fast these days, but that's my understanding on at least those 2 points.

    A final note, as your play group definitely showcases, not all builds are for all groups, since we all play at different levels of optimization and house rules. If your group doesn't want it, the rules aren't going to change their minds on it. Play what's fun for the group, as that's ultimately what matters in the end.
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Chibbell View Post
    I was running the Gundolon (I like the name btw) by my group and they seemed quite offended. I believe the term "rules raping" was used. (apologies if that term offends - new to the boards - feel free to slap me for it)

    Here are the two big issues:

    1. When you summon the eidolon, you use its base attack. Not add to your own. You would have a BAB of 8 with a level 10 eidolon. It replaces the character's BAB, including those gained from classes.
    2. You don't get that many attacks. You only get as many attacks as the eidolon gets, which maxes at 5 at level 10.


    What do you think?
    I agree that the build is fairly silly, and is designed to abuse the wazoo out of Leaping Shot Deed.

    With regards to Point 1: That is retarded. Normal Summoner is already a non-dip class, you lose too much to dip away/don't get enough dipping into.
    Synthesist gave it a fighting chance of being a Dippable class, to rule that the Eidolon Bab replaces ALL of your Bab is just nonsense. Your group might as well just say that a Fighter 5/Paladin 5/Ranger 5 doesn't have any iterative attacks, just 1 at +15 (or even only +5 bab).

    Regarding Point 2: the Max attack limit applies to Natural weapons only.
    PFSRD link (bolding added for emphasis)
    Max. Attacks

    This indicates the maximum number of natural attacks that the eidolon is allowed to possess at the given level. If the eidolon is at its maximum, it cannot take evolutions that grant additional natural attacks. This does not include attacks made with weapons.

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    As silly as it is I still love the idea of this build. :)

    Just to be clear, the Rules as Written are clear that a Synthesist USES the Eidolon's BAB. What's unclear is how this stacks with other sources of BAB. I would love to see a ruling from Paizo on this. I personally believe it should stack. (edit: Maybe we could use the wild-shaped druid as a point of ref? I'll have to look into that)

    There are other problems though.

    When you add limbs and put weapons in those hands, the weapons aren't natural attacks. At best they are secondary, off-hand attacks. They aren't natural attacks so they don't benefit from Multi-Attack at Synth 9.

    The kicker here is that they are most likely considered Off-Hand attacks since they are weapon-based.

    So at best, the 12 attacks from pistols will all be at a -10.

    If you could get Multi-Weapon Fighting then you could reduce it to -6. You'd need a way to get an extra arm on the Summoner though, as he would have to qualify for the feat, or find some way to give that Feat to the Eidolon, which I don't think is possible.
    Last edited by Chibbell; 2011-09-15 at 12:50 PM.

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