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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    biggrin Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Pretend what I said didn't happen. I think my previous post is right.
    Last edited by Chibbell; 2011-09-15 at 01:14 PM.

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Chibbell View Post
    As silly as it is I still love the idea of this build. :)

    Just to be clear, the Rules as Written are clear that a Synthesist USES the Eidolon's BAB. What's unclear is how this stacks with other sources of BAB. I would love to see a ruling from Paizo on this. I personally believe it should stack. (edit: Maybe we could use the wild-shaped druid as a point of ref? I'll have to look into that)

    There are other problems though.

    When you add limbs and put weapons in those hands, the weapons aren't natural attacks. At best they are secondary, off-hand attacks. They aren't natural attacks so they don't benefit from Multi-Attack at Synth 9.

    The kicker here is that they are most likely considered Off-Hand attacks since they are weapon-based.

    So at best, the 12 attacks from pistols will all be at a -10.

    If you could get Multi-Weapon Fighting then you could reduce it to -6. You'd need a way to get an extra arm on the Summoner though, as he would have to qualify for the feat, or find some way to give that Feat to the Eidolon, which I don't think is possible.
    I think you're missing something, in that we don't need Multiweapon Fighting to make this work properly, Leaping Shot lets you make an attack with each weapon held at full BAB during the move. There's no interaction with multiweapon rules anywhere in how Gundolon is meant to be used. Yes, RAW is weird in this particular instance, as you're otherwise a pisspoor shot if you just stand there and shoot instead of run and gun but them's the breaks.

    As for the Eidolon/Synthesist BAB issue, the common consensus from what I heard of the Paizo boards, if the many Synthesist threads over here are any indication, seems to be that Eidolon BAB stacks with other class BABs when fused. Also, BAB only provides extra attacks with manufactured weapons, which is what the Gundolon is doing, as opposed to natural weapons that most Eidolons typically use and would not get extra attacks out of from BAB. Either way, since Gundolon uses Leaping Shot to pull off his craziness, extra attacks from BAB doesn't come into it at any point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
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  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Ahah. I was totally missing the point. And holy **** that is crazy. Crazy AWESOME! :)

    So are you saying if you stand there and fire you get extra attacks (+6/+1 route, minus penalties) or that you get none since that's meant for nat. attacks?
    Last edited by Chibbell; 2011-09-15 at 01:46 PM.

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Chibbell View Post
    So are you saying if you stand there and fire you get extra attacks (+6/+1 route, minus penalties) or that you get none since that's meant for nat. attacks?
    I'm saying normal multiweapon rules apply when you don't use Leaping Shot, with all the aforementioned penalties for not having any of the Multiweapon Fighting chain and so forth. The Eidolon's Natural Attack Limit has no bearing on manufactured weapon attacks, since it only affects the number of natural weapons you have. If you check the Summoner's Handbook, which I make mention of in the beginning of the thread, one of the sample builds, Kali, works specifically with that by getting a bunch of manufactured weapons and as many arms as can be afforded to be a Death by a Thousand Cuts type build. The Gundolon takes the multiple arms and uses it in a different way but hinging on the same bit that manufactured weapons aren't limited by the NAL.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
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  5. - Top - End - #65
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Thanks and sorry for my confusion. I get really lost when it comes to MWF and the like.

    I'll check out that thread. I'm still a little confused about how one might use manufactured and natural attacks together and how the manufactured attacks affect the attack bonus of natural attacks (if at all).

    Thanks again for taking the time to explain it. :)

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Alright, I'm a serious rule nazi and have been double checking every disputed rule I've heard of in my D&D experiences. I looked at the synthesist archetype last night because I mentioned the gundolon to my dm, and he said that build didn't matter because he was outright banning the synthesist class for being OP.

    I checked the synthesist, and saw what the problem was. He had read it wrong for the ability score part, mistaking USES for GAINS. The way it's read, you can replace each instance of the word USES with REPLACES and replace GAINS with ADDS.

    This means, the synthesist REPLACES his physical ability scores, and REPLACES his base attack bonus with those of the eidolon's. So you don't get to have an amazingly high attack bonus, I'm sorry to say.

    As for the leaping shot, it says highest BAB, not full BAB, and your highest base attack bonus for fighting with two weapons (since this is the rule that'd apply for using all those guns) is still going to be at a -4 penalty for the main ones, and all the off handed ones are going to sit with a -8 penalty. These are determined before you make your leaping shot, so you'll still have penalties during the attack. I'd say the best you can hope for is that you're allowed to make all the attacks with the -4 penalty.
    Last edited by Exelbirth; 2011-09-15 at 02:13 PM.

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Exelbirth View Post
    This means, the synthesist REPLACES his physical ability scores, and REPLACES his base attack bonus with those of the eidolon's. So you don't get to have an amazingly high attack bonus, I'm sorry to say.
    However, the designers have stated that replacing your BAB only affects the class that does it, even if the ability doesn't say that.
    Last edited by Prime32; 2011-09-15 at 02:15 PM.
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Prime32 View Post
    I had forgotten to say that it replaces the summoner's only, my bad. Either way, you don't get it as a bonus.

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Exelbirth View Post
    As for the leaping shot, it says highest BAB, not full BAB, and your highest base attack bonus for fighting with two weapons (since this is the rule that'd apply for using all those guns) is still going to be at a -4 penalty for the main ones, and all the off handed ones are going to sit with a -8 penalty. These are determined before you make your leaping shot, so you'll still have penalties during the attack. I'd say the best you can hope for is that you're allowed to make all the attacks with the -4 penalty.
    I would think they would reference such rules if they were in effect, honestly. Though, there isn't standard language for that, either, as Rapid Shot doesn't even specify what BAB you use, among other such abilities that talk about such.
    Even if what you claim is so, you're still hitting touch AC with a Full BAB, High Dex chassis. I don't think there should be much trouble in making your enemies feel your sting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Oh yeah, there's no question you're going to make things hurt with this build, I'm just pointing out it's a little less powerful than written.

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Yeah, we'll probably have to take a feat off the Gundolon, bump the Dex to 15 and throw on Two/Multi-weapon fighting.
    For those of you worried if we qualify, the rules on Multi says "Special: This feat replaces the Two-Weapon Fighting feat for creatures with more than two arms."
    So we take Two-Weapon on our Summoner, and if we happen to spontaneously sprout arms at some point *cough* Eidolon *cough*, then it effectively becomes Multi-Weapon.
    We are still targeting Touch-AC so a drop in to-hit isn't a major loss.


    We can also go to "Plan B" on the Gundolon Route. You get a major drop in power, but it is MUCH more rules friendly.

    Remove ALL Summoner levels from the Gundolon build, it is no longer a Gundolon.
    Add at least 4 levels of Alchemist to the build, it is now an Algunist.

    An Alchemist can gain up to 3 additional limbs as Discoveries (2 arms, 1 tentacle).

    The Good: Alchemist has the same Bab/hp, more skill points, and a similar 'spell' progression compared to a Summoner.
    Mutagen can give you a Dex boost (at the expense of Wisdom, but we are still using Mysterious Stranger for Cha to Grit, and the UMD bonus)

    The Bad: Has many less arms than the Gundolon.
    Cannot purposely dump/ignore physical stats.
    Wants 2 decent Mental stats (Int and Wis-or-Cha).
    Bad Will save.

    The Vivisectionist Archetype loses Bomb, but let's Alchemist levels stack with Rogue for Sneak Attack progression. (Chirurgeon can be taken with Vivisectionist, lose Poison-Use, gain better/more healing abilities)
    Can also take the Explosive Missile discovery (instead of Vivisectionist) to add Bomb damage to any one shot (a decent followup to a Leaping Shot round).
    And you can gain Wings as a Discovery, so Flight is still an option.

    2 new spells/extracts of note are
    Longshot: Level 1 Extract, Standard to 'cast', but for minutes/level your Range increment is +10
    Burst of Speed: Level 3 Extract, Swift to 'cast', until end of round your speed is +20ft. and you do not provoke AoO's when moving.

    (Note: The Vestigial Arm discovery specifically calls out Two-Weapon Fighting and NOT Multi. I am unsure how intended this was)
    Last edited by grarrrg; 2011-09-16 at 10:39 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #72
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Just as a note you might want to add a warning that the capacity rating of 2 on the double hackbut is almost certainly a typo. Under reloading it says that capacity of early guns is equal to barrels and under the weapon description (and if you google "double hackbut") it says that the "double" refers to barrel length.

  13. - Top - End - #73
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    It's likely that the people at Paizo assumed it had two barrels at one point.

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkomn View Post
    Just as a note you might want to add a warning that the capacity rating of 2 on the double hackbut is almost certainly a typo. Under reloading it says that capacity of early guns is equal to barrels and under the weapon description (and if you google "double hackbut") it says that the "double" refers to barrel length.
    You should ask at the Pathfinder forums if it is a typo. Maybe they will errata or FAQ it. For now, it has the ability to shoot twice before reloading.

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    For the feats section, I've heard the suggestion the Vital Strike line has value for ranged combatants as they can ready it against casting (its a standard action). Should be worth adding to the feat's note when you get the section up.
    Last edited by deuxhero; 2011-09-15 at 10:44 PM.

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by deuxhero View Post
    For the feats section, I've heard the suggestion the Vital Strike line has value for ranged combatants as they can ready it against casting (its a standard action). Should be worth adding to the feat's note when you get the section up.
    I was planning to make mention of the chain, though it's not as necessary as it used to be due to Dead Shot emulating it. Still a nice backup if you're low on grit or pursuing a cannon build, which from what I can fathom, doesn't play well with siege weaponry needing time to aim, sucking up actions like its going out of fashion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Abilities and Core Races is up. I'll get to Bestiary and Psionic Races soon, though I may get started on the next section before then.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    *raids pre-compiled "master race list" for pf*
    *edits down to ONLY the races with +Dex and +Wis-OR-Cha)

    Monster Races
    Dhampir: +2 Dex, -2 Con, +2 Cha, Medium (Dhampir)
    Drow: +2 Dex, -2 Con, +2 Cha, Medium (Elf)
    Drow Noble: +4 Dex, -2 Con, +2 Int, +2 Wis, +2 Cha, Medium
    Fetchling: +2 Dex, -2 Wis, +2 Cha, Medium Outsider (Native)
    Goblin: -2 Str, +4 Dex, -2 Cha, Small (30ft.) (Goblinoid)
    Grippli: -2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Wis, Small (30ft. w/Climb 20ft.) (Grippli)
    Ifrit: +2 Dex, -2 Wis, +2 Cha, Medium Outsider (Native)
    Merfolk: +2 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Cha, Medium (5ft. w/Swim 50ft.) (Aquatic)
    Svirfneblin: -2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Wis -4 Cha, Small (Gnome)
    Tengu: +2 Dex, -2 Con, +2 Wis, Medium (Tengu)
    Undine: -2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Wis, Medium (w/Swim 30ft.) Outsider (Native)

    Races from Psionics Unleashed
    Dromite: -2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Cha, Small (Insectoid)
    Ophiduan: +2 Dex, +2 Wis, -2 Cha, Medium (Reptilian)
    Xeph: -2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Cha, Medium (Xeph)

    3rd Party Races
    High Goblin: -2 Str, +4 Dex, +2 Wis, -2 Cha, Small (30ft.) (Goblinoid), Player Races: High Goblins PDF
    WOW that's a lot of them.
    Drow Noble should not be allowed at +0 CR, it's too good.
    Goblin I kept in (despite the poor mentals) because it has +4 Dex.

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Goblins are gonna have special mention, in that their currently the only race that has a Favored Class option specifically for Gunslingers and it's actually a nice one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    So. I'm looking to be playing in the Seven Swords of Sin Pathfinder Game Module here soonish (alongside our group's more regular gaming). With 5 players, I've decided to be "5th Wheel" and, in this case, play a Gunslinger.

    Important facts:
    7th Level
    DM has stated we're going with "Emerging Firearms", so I'm basically limited to Muskets, Pistols, etc.
    My rolled stats are: 17, 16, 16, 15, 15, 13 (monk stats if I felt like it ).
    Standard Wealth By Level.

    So. Advice?

    I'm currently thinking a Musket Master, using Paper Cartridges to get Free Action reloads.

    As for stats:
    17 for Dex.
    16 for...Hm. Part of me wants to say Con, but probably the Grit Stat that I end up with.
    16 for Int, so I can leave it alone and have an even # to get at least 6 skill points a level (maybe 7 if I go human)
    15 for Con or Grit Stat
    15 for the last Mental
    13 for Strength.

    Human looks nice for the free-floating +2, extra feat, and extra skill (I plan to try milking Daring Feat for all I can). But other races might work here.

    I'm wondering if combining Musket Master and Mysterious Stranger would be worthwhile; it'd only be 2 potential Grit usage Deeds by level 7, really, so not too bad. The one thing that hurts is the loss of Quick Clear.

    Part of my thinking for Musket Master is that I can't really do a quick barrage of a bunch of bullets anyways, so I might as well go for a "sniper" (probably using a +1 Reliable Musket).

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by KnightDisciple View Post
    Important facts:
    7th Level
    DM has stated we're going with "Emerging Firearms", so I'm basically limited to Muskets, Pistols, etc.
    My rolled stats are: 17, 16, 16, 15, 15, 13 (monk stats if I felt like it ).
    I'm currently thinking a Musket Master, using Paper Cartridges to get Free Action reloads.

    I'm wondering if combining Musket Master and Mysterious Stranger would be worthwhile; it'd only be 2 potential Grit usage Deeds by level 7, really, so not too bad. The one thing that hurts is the loss of Quick Clear.
    First off, Musket Master and Mysterious Stranger cannot be taken together, they both trade away Gun Training. Also, since you are starting at level 7, I would advise against Mysterious Stranger anyway. Dex-to-damage is automatic, Cha-to-damage requires a swift action and Grit each turn. The main advantage to Myst-Stranger is that the bonus damage comes at level 1 instead of level 5, making it better for dips.

    For stats I'd go
    Dex 17> Wis 16> Con 16> Str 15> Int 15> Cha 13
    You have 1 bonus stat point from level 4 and another one coming at level 8, put the first one into Dex (duh), the second can either be used to round off your Str or Int (PF chars CAN gain retroactive skill points!).

    For Race, Human, Dwarf or Elf would all be good choices. Human is all upside, but only 1 stat bonus. Dwarf has all good stat bonuses, but a move speed of only 20ft. Elf would normally be worse off, but with your rolls you can absorb the Con hit easy enough.

    And your suggestion of Monk is not entirely a bad suggestion.
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    Given your stats, a 2 level dip into Monk would give you a good "Plan B"-Melee option, and Evasion (high Ref save + high Dex = Evasion-Awesomeness).
    Your 2 best stats will be Dex and Wis, with a Monk's Wis-to-AC you'll have a HUGE AC bonus (no armor though). For one of your bonus feats take Combat Reflexes, this combined with your improved Unarmed damage (use your feet), means you can still get AoO's on enemies nearby.
    For your 2nd Monk feat, you might as well take Dodge, because there isn't anything else that would help a Gunslinger much.
    Take the Sohei archetype Monk, then you will always get to act in a Surprise round, and you don't lose anything important anyway.
    Last edited by grarrrg; 2011-09-18 at 09:51 AM.

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Ah. Forgot the gun training part. So, yeah, Musket Master it is.

    Probably Human.

    As far as level increase, the "problem" is that these Pathfinder Modules seem to be set up so you don't level up by the end; it's short enough to encompass just a half-dozen fights or so (if the last one I played in is any indication), so XP won't be enough to level. Hence my thinking on putting a 16 in Int.

    I don't think I'd do a Monk dip, though. While the number-crunching might be nice, I'm weird and like to try and stick to 1 single class. I figure there's enough good stuff in Gunslinger to justify 7 levels of it. So going from that, what feats might be good?

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by KnightDisciple View Post
    As far as level increase, the "problem" is that these Pathfinder Modules seem to be set up so you don't level up by the end......good stuff in Gunslinger to justify 7 levels of it. So going from that, what feats might be good?
    Stuck at level 7 understandable.
    Feats? Let's see, 1 from being Human, 4 from levels, and 1 from Gunslinger. 6 total, not a lot to work with. (I'm just listing the better ones from my Gundolon build, I didn't do additional research, so I might have missed a good one)
    • Rapid Reload is a must have, you don't want to be wasting a move action (or worse) to reload.
    • Point-Blank Shot is a quick bonus (better than Weapon Focus anyway).
    • Precise Shot might be good depending on the rest of your party.
    • Deadly Aim will be -2 to-hit +4 damage, and the to-hit doesn't matter much cause you're aiming at Touch AC.
    • Deft Shootist Deed let's you not provoke AoO's when shooting or reloading.
    • Improved Critical because Keen is not an option on firearms, and doubles your chance of regaining Grit

    Well, that's 6 feats, feel free to find something better though.
    Last edited by grarrrg; 2011-09-17 at 11:44 PM.

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by grarrrg View Post
    Stuck at level 7 understandable.
    Feats? Let's see, 1 from being Human, 4 from levels, and 1 from Gunslinger. 6 total, not a lot to work with. (I'm just listing the better ones from my Gundolon build, I didn't do additional research, so I might have missed a good one)
    • Rapid Reload is a must have, you don't want to be wasting a move action (or worse) to reload.
    • Point-Blank Shot is a quick bonus (better than Weapon Focus anyway).
    • Precise Shot might be good depending on the rest of your party.
    • Deadly Aim will be -2 to-hit +4 damage, and the to-hit doesn't matter much cause you're aiming at Touch AC.
    • Deft Shootist Deed let's you not provoke AoO's when shooting or reloading.
    • Improved Critical because Keen is not an option on firearms, and doubles your chance of regaining Grit

    Well, that's 6 feats, feel free to find something better though.
    Gunslinger 7 isn't a bad level, Dead Shot and Targeting go online at that level, which drastically raises your damage and versatility. Mysterious Stranger isn't a bad thing choice, due to Focused Aim, unlike every other damage bonus, gets multiplied during a Dead Shot, so it's not a bad deal.

    Going Musket Master, there's a problem with half the feats recommended, in that Musket Master grants Rapid Reload for free, so you don't have to take it with your normal feat. Deft Shootist requires Dodge and Mobility to take, so that requires a bit more investment. Improved Critical, while an excellent feat, requires BAB +8, so you can't take it till next level, when you get your next bonus Gunslinger feat. Precise Shot isn't as necessary, since -4 on a touch attack isn't that big a deal, but it can still be a good choice to not have to worry about it, plus, since you have a good Int, you may consider it to pick up Focused Shot, since it should work with firearms. A feat chain to consider is Snap Shot, at least up to Improved, since you'll be close by in any case and an AoO from you is likely to take a chunk out of somebody.

    My recommendation for a feat progression is:
    {table=head]Level|Feat Gained
    1st|Point Blank Shot
    Human (1st)|Deadly Aim
    Gunslinger (1st)|Rapid Reload (Musket)
    Gunslinger (1st)|Gunsmithing
    3rd|Rapid Shot
    Gunslinger (4th)|Blind-Fight
    5th|Ricochet Shot Deed
    7th|Hammer the Gap[/table]

    Blind-Fight and Ricochet Shot is dependent on how much cover you have to deal with, since Cover can provide a definite edge against gun shots, so having a way to deal with it can be useful. You could switch in Precise Shot and Extra Grit fairly easily.

    Alternatively, you could pursue Point Blank Shot, Dodge, Mobility, Deft Shootist, Rapid Shot, Weapon Focus (Musket) and pick up Snap Shot and Combat Reflexes in the next levels, which can make you a meleer with a gun and good battlefield control once Improved Snap Shot is picked up. Taking 2 levels of Fighter or Monk can help make getting the chain work out easier.

    Them's my 2 coppers. Take as you will.
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    Damn you Cieyrin! Cieyrin!!!!!read as Khaaaaan!

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  25. - Top - End - #85
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    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Wow, my DM would never allow stats like that. He's got a rule that the total modifier should be between 7 and 9, though he discourages 9, claiming it's a bit over powered (compared to what we've been fighting in the last two campaigns he's run, I feel extremely under powered really.)

    Now that he's switching to pathfinder though, he has everyone use the 20 point buy system.

  26. - Top - End - #86
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Exelbirth View Post
    Wow, my DM would never allow stats like that. He's got a rule that the total modifier should be between 7 and 9, though he discourages 9, claiming it's a bit over powered (compared to what we've been fighting in the last two campaigns he's run, I feel extremely under powered really.)

    Now that he's switching to pathfinder though, he has everyone use the 20 point buy system.
    Our DM is letting us use the method we came up with: Roll 5d4. But you don't drop anything.

    For what it's worth, that method got me 1 set that was nothing but 12 and 13. The other was a couple 11s, a couple 10s, a 13, and a 14 (or so).

    This was just a really lucky set.

    Probably going to end up grabbing Quick Draw just because of of Gunslinger's Initiative. As well as Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Deadly Aim. Probably Hammer the Gap. And something else. Part of me wants Weapon Finesse for those "oh crap" moments, but eh. Actually, Extra Grit, probably. We'll see.

  27. - Top - End - #87
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by KnightDisciple View Post
    Probably going to end up grabbing Quick Draw just because of of Gunslinger's Initiative. As well as Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Deadly Aim. Probably Hammer the Gap. And something else. Part of me wants Weapon Finesse for those "oh crap" moments, but eh. Actually, Extra Grit, probably. We'll see.
    I wouldn't worry about Weapon Finesse if you reload fast enough or pursue Deft Shooter, as even without the deed, most of the time you should be able to 5' and shoot people in the face or just use Pistol-Whip and get out of there.
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  28. - Top - End - #88
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    I wouldn't worry about Weapon Finesse if you reload fast enough or pursue Deft Shooter, as even without the deed, most of the time you should be able to 5' and shoot people in the face or just use Pistol-Whip and get out of there.
    I ended up getting Weapon Focus and Extra Grit.

    I will state again this is basically a "one-shot" character. He'll never go beyond level 7.

    On the plus side, he's got a +15 on his first attack with that musket of his.

  29. - Top - End - #89
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    (links to Gundolon v1, Gundolon v1.3)

    Due to the (potential) rules issues with the Gundolon build, here is presented another option. Same basic premise, less raw damage, MUCH more rules friendly (but still iffy in certain areas).

    The Algunist (taking requests for a Punnier name)
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    Kind of like this, but with one less arm.
    Oh, and one of the arms is a tentacle.

    The following build is based around the "Leaping Shot Deed" feat, it is presented as a level 20 build, although it can begin making use of its trick around levels 6 - 8. If starting at a low level, it is greatly recommended to rearrange levels/feats to make it more playable at low levels.

    Presented is the 'standard' build. You can also take the Mysterious Stranger archetype and make it Cha based instead.

    The core of the build is Alchemist 4, Gunslinger 5, from there your options are wide open. You can go 'Slinger 16/Alch 4 (19 bab), or 'Slinger 5/Alch 15 (16 bab). Or anywhere in between, a dip in Fighter is highly encouraged for the feats though.

    Race: There is no clear winner, Human gets a Feat, Half-Elf can have 2 favored classes, Dwarf/Elf both have relevant stat bonuses, Halfling is good if going Mysterious Stranger. Only Half-Orc and Gnome are poor choices.
    For sake of argument, I will be using Half-Elf, trading 'Adaptibility' for +2 Will saves.
    Classes:
    Gunslinger 5 (straight or Pistolero)
    Fighter 3 (Weapon Master)
    Alchemist 10
    Rogue 2
    Sample 15-point buy: (feel free to tweak)
    Str 8
    Dex 21 (15 base, +2 race, +4 levels)
    Con 10
    Int 14
    Wis 16 (15 base, +1 levels)
    Cha 8
    This is the second reason why the Gundolon is the preferred option. We need High Dex/Wis, enough Int for Alchemist Extracts, some Con for HP, Cha can be useful if we want to UMD some wands (there are some nice spells we don't have, like Reloading Hands). Str is the only stat we want to slack on.
    8d10+12d8 HD (avg 98)
    Bab 16 (17 if using Fractional)
    Fort/Ref saves will be good. Will is poor.
    Gunslinger 5 gives Gun Prof., a Grit pool, various Deeds, a Bonus feat, and Dex to Damage
    Fighter 3 (Weapon Master) gives 2 bonus feats, and +1 att/damage with chosen weapon (weapon training at level 3 instead of armor training)
    Alchemist 10 gives 5 Discoveries, 3 will be spent on extra Arms/Tentacle, the other 2 are optional, I like Explosive Missile as a nice 'plan B', and Wings are usually handy.
    Rogue 2 +1d6 Sneak attack, Evasion, a Rogue Talent, and Trapfinding. Our Talent will either be "Stand Up", so we can stand up from Prone as a Free Action (Leaping Shot leaves us prone), Or, "Grit" to gain Extra Grit AND a Grit Deed as bonus feats (RAW this won't work with pre-existing levels of Gunslinger, but RAI it makes sense).

    Feats: 13 (+2 if "Grit" Rogue talent is allowed) (10 levels, 1 Gunslinger, 2 Fighter) these are listed in no particular order, they are only labeled so I can count/sort them better. Any weapon specific feats are assumed to be for Firearm-Pistol. (most feats are just a guideline, only the feats up through level 5 are necessary)
    1 Rapid Reload
    3 Dodge
    4 Mobility (G)
    5 Leaping Shot Deed
    5 Point-Blank Shot (F)
    6 Quick-Draw (F)
    7 Multi-Weapon Fighting (there is some debate whether you need this for Leaping Shot deed, or whether Leaping Shot overrides the penalties, ALSO there is some debate on whether a Pistol is a light weapon or not, entitling you to the lesser penalty)
    9 Deadly Aim
    11 Precise Shot
    13 Deft Shootist Deed
    15 Weapon Focus
    17 Improved Critical (Keen is not an option on firearms)
    19 Improved Initiative
    If "Grit" Rogue talent is allowed, then add Extra Grit and any one other feat (Grit-Talent feat would be Leaping Shot Deed, freeing up a normal feat slot)
    Secret Stash deed might be handy, as you can pay Grit/Gold to "find" a bullet hidden on yourself (this CAN be an enchanted bullet, but you only get 1-shot per Grit)

    The Algunist has 5 arms total, each holding a pistol. 1 or 2 of your pistols are your "main weapon(s)" and will be pimped out, 1 of your Pistols will be the 'dud', only useful for the first Leaping Shot and then put away so that the hand is freed up for reloading, remaining pistols will probably have minimal upgrades based on what you can afford (probably +1, and a variety of specialty/limited use enchantments, like Bane, or Axiomatic). Distance is recommended for all.

    Leaping Shot lets you spend a Grit to move your full distance, and attack with all of your firearms, at any point during the move, at your full Bab.
    Adding that all together (assuming all pistols are only +1):
    5 attacks, each with...
    To-hit: (16 bab, +5dex, +1weapon, 1wep-focus, 1Fight3, -5deadly aim, -2?multi-weapon, +1 Point-Blank)
    Damage: (1d8+1weapon, +10deadly aim, +5dex, +1Fight3, +1 Point-Blank) add 1d6 for possible Sneak Attack.
    Most will hit, and there is a good chance of one of those being a Critical for x4 damage that will regain a Grit point.
    If all of them hit, with 1 Critical, you will be doing around 115 damage in the first round of combat. (somebody double check please). Closer to 130 w/ Sneak Attack.

    Round 2 of combat will be trickier, as you will need to reload 4 guns. Unless you have Double Barreled Pistols, then Round 2 is the same as Round 1, and Round 3 is reload time.
    If Revolvers/Cartridges are allowed, I highly urge you to make use of them.

    Alternate options: Drop a level of Alchemist and pick up a level of Fighter, you lose a Discovery and 4th level Extract, but can pick up Weapon Specialization.
    OR Drop some levels of ?Alchemist? and pick up levels of Rogue for more talents and Sneak Attack.

    As always, suggestions/corrections/criticisms are encouraged.
    Last edited by grarrrg; 2011-12-07 at 11:15 AM.

  30. - Top - End - #90
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    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    That is one freaky looking gunslinger.

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