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  1. - Top - End - #121
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by grarrrg View Post
    Something worth noting when taking a Gunslinger Archetype (especially Mysterious Stranger).
    Trophy Hunter Ranger, at level 2 gains "the Amateur Gunslinger feat, and can use any 1st-level Gunslinger deed".
    Now, granted, the intent is to take Trophy Ranger INSTEAD of Gunsliner. But I see a quick 2-level-dip way for a Mysterious Stranger to regain the use of Quick Clear (and pick up some Extra Grit on the side).
    Ooo, intriguing. If this week wasn't out to murder me, I'd totally be writing that in. I feel so bad for the massive inactivity here but RL has been a right pain this month...
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Here's something about Dead Shot that makes it quite nice for crit-fishing. If any of the attacks in the Dead Shot crit, the whole thing crits if you confirm, so improved crit would be a significant damage increase at high levels. At 11th, having improved crit changes your crit threat chance from 1-(19/20)^3 = 14.2625% to 1-(9/10)^3 = 27.1%, so it's like you're crit range increases with your BAB (34.39% with improved crit, 18.549375% without at 16th). All of a sudden you're effectively wielding a 14-20 / x4 weapon. This gets juicier if you allow haste etc. to give you extra attacks in your Dead Shot.
    Quote Originally Posted by CTrees View Post
    Oh! Better example!

    DM: That's it! Rocks fall, everyone dies!
    PC1: I have improved evasion
    PC2: Natural twenty on the reflex save!
    PC3: My reflex save is +15, and I didn't roll a one, so I'm good.

    Yeah... do you see that working?

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Infernalbargain View Post
    Here's something about Dead Shot that makes it quite nice for crit-fishing. If any of the attacks in the Dead Shot crit, the whole thing crits if you confirm, so improved crit would be a significant damage increase at high levels. At 11th, having improved crit changes your crit threat chance from 1-(19/20)^3 = 14.2625% to 1-(9/10)^3 = 27.1%, so it's like you're crit range increases with your BAB (34.39% with improved crit, 18.549375% without at 16th). All of a sudden you're effectively wielding a 14-20 / x4 weapon. This gets juicier if you allow haste etc. to give you extra attacks in your Dead Shot.
    You'd want Improved Critical and Critical Focus in my book, anyways, for Grit renewal purposes, since Keen is melee only. Just be aware of the confirm penalty that's part of Dead Shot, which is what makes Critical Focus important for countering.
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Gundolon v1.3
    a.k.a.
    Heavily-Armed
    (Algunist)

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    Kind of like this, but with more arms


    The following is NOT recommended for a low-level start game. It is presented as a level 20 build. There are ways to modify it to be more playable at low levels, but it would be weaker at high levels.

    Class Breakdown:
    Gunslinger 5 (Pistolero): Grants Firearms, Grit, some Deeds and Dex-to-Damage.
    Ranger 2 (Trophy Hunter): Extra Grit and a 1st level Gunslinger Deed.
    Summoner 12 (Synthesist): Replace our Physical scores, grow a LOT of arms.
    Something! 1: Free space! This is actually a level 19 build! Options will be explored later! For build purposes we shall assume a level of Fighter! (for the bonus feat!)

    Race: Halfling, small, -2 Str +2 Dex, +2 Cha (Halfling chosen to allow small-Eidolon-Form)
    Classes:
    Gunslinger 5 (Pistolero)
    Ranger 2 (Trophy Hunter)
    Summoner 12 (Synthesist)
    Something! 1 (who knows!)
    Sample 15-point buy:
    Str 9 (11-2race)
    Dex 16 (13+2race+1level)
    Con 14
    Int 10
    Wis 14 (13+1level)
    Cha 18 (13+2race+3level)
    8d10+12d8 HD (avg 98 +40 from Con) + 9d10+Con from Eidolon.
    Bab 17
    All saves will be medium/great
    Gunslinger 5 gets us Guns, Grit and Gore (Dex-to-Damage that is)
    Ranger 2 is to improve our Grit pool and grab the Mysterious Stranger's Focused Aim deed.
    Summoner 12 (Synthesist) The Eidolon's physical stats will replace our own (hence our poor Str/Dex scores), we will be using a Small Serpentine Eidolon for the net +2 to-hit +0 damage (-1 Weapon size, +1 Dex-to-damage). Eidolon-form stats after all bonuses/penalties are Str 13, Dex 24, Con 12. We have 16 Evolution points, most will be spent on adding Arms, the remainder will be spent on utility powers or boosting Dex.
    Something! 1. The next levels in each of our 3 chosen classes provide minimal gains. Possibilities:
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    Fighter can be taken for the extra feat
    Paladin can be taken for a 1/day Smite Evil
    Rogue gives Trapfinding and 1d6 Sneak Attack
    Cleric grants a Domain power and minor spellcasting
    Ditto for Oracle but swap Domain for Revelation
    Inquisitor gets a Domain power, a 1/day Judgement, and even minor-er spellcasting
    Monk gives Wis-to-AC and gets a bonus feat
    Etc/etc/etc... Pick your favorite!


    Feats: 11 (10 levels, 1 Gunslinger) these are listed in no particular order, and are only numbered/labeled to keep track of them easier.
    1 Rapid Reload
    3 Dodge
    5 Mobility
    7 Point-Blank Shot
    9 Quick-Draw
    11 Two/Multi-Weapon Fighting (Multi specifically replaces Two-weap for creatures with 3+ arms, the problem is that we only have 2 arms in our natural state, so we need to have 15 Dex to take Two-Weap, when Multi only requires 13 Dex)
    13 Deadly Aim
    15 Precise Shot
    17 Deft Shootist Deed
    19 Leaping Shot Deed
    (G) Improved Critical (Keen is not an option on firearms)
    (F) Hammer the Gap

    We shall assume your Eidolon-form has 12 arms total, each holding a pistol. Most of your weapons will probably have minimal upgrades based on what you can afford, recommend Distance on most/all of them, and buy a wide variety of abilities. 1 of your weapons can be a 'dud' gun with no abilities, after the first shot you drop it to free up that hand for reloading.

    Damage Calculation (assume all pistols are simple +1's, and that the Eidolon has 26 Dex):
    12 attacks, each with...
    To-hit: +21 (17bab, 8dex, 1weapon, 1size, -5deadly aim, +1point-blank, -2multiweapon (assumes Pistols are Light weapons))
    Damage: 1d6+24 (1d6+1weapon, +10deadly aim, +8Dex, +4Cha, +1point-blank)
    Most will hit, and 1 of those should be a Critical for x4 damage, and will regain the Grit point spent on Focused Aim. You can also spend a Grit to use Leaping Shot Deed and move before/after/during your attacks.

    If all of them hit, with 1 Critical, you will be doing around 400 damage each round! (somebody double check please)

    Hammer the Gap damage is hard to calculate in. You only gain the bonus on 'consecutive' hits, so any Miss will reset the counter, also, the bonus damage IS multiplied on a Critical.
    If all 12 attacks hit with NO Critical, you'd gain +66 damage from Hammer the Gap!

    Round 2 of combat might be trickier, as you will need to reload a dozen guns (but then again, most things will be dead so...)

    HIGHLY recommend you make use of Alchemical Cartridges to get free reloads (you still need 1 free hand).

    Final notes: The presented build is merely 1 option, feel free to adjust class levels up/down.
    Pumping both Wis and Cha is inefficient when your Grit pool 'can' run entirely on Cha with Mysterious Gunslinger. In that case you should use the Ranger levels to grab the Quick Clear deed, and then you only need the 1 level of Gunslinger. With the 4 extra levels, Fighter would be a good choice for the Feats, and you can pick up Weapon Specialization to help make up for the loss of Dex-to-Damage.
    Last edited by grarrrg; 2012-08-30 at 05:01 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #125
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Well, got to do my first session with my gunslinger. It's nice, I can reload my musket as a free action, so long as I'm using cartridges. But it's looking a bit like I should have gone with a type of gunslinger that's better at espionage than a sniper, so I'm moving forward with making a skirmish-slinger build.

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Exelbirth View Post
    Well, got to do my first session with my gunslinger. It's nice, I can reload my musket as a free action, so long as I'm using cartridges. But it's looking a bit like I should have gone with a type of gunslinger that's better at espionage than a sniper, so I'm moving forward with making a skirmish-slinger build.
    Good to hear. I should be getting back to working on this shortly, I'm hoping, so updates should be forthcoming.
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    Good to hear. I should be getting back to working on this shortly, I'm hoping, so updates should be forthcoming.
    Fantastic! I've been looking for a Gunslinger Handbook that includes PF feat selections and there just isn't one (because the Gunslinger is pretty bad honestly and thus no one cares). Hope to see this go somewhere soon.

    All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    For the feats: Note that while Vital Strike is mostly redundant with Deadeye, it has one big use: A standard action can be readied while a full round can't (reload and ammo use are helpful extra).

    With PF's harder concerntration checks and the fact that you only need to beat touch AC, it works decently against mages.
    Last edited by deuxhero; 2011-11-17 at 01:48 AM.

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by arguskos View Post
    Fantastic! I've been looking for a Gunslinger Handbook that includes PF feat selections and there just isn't one (because the Gunslinger is pretty bad honestly and thus no one cares). Hope to see this go somewhere soon.
    The Playtest Guide I did has a lot of that and I'll be drawing from so I don't have to necessarily start from Square 1, though some things have obviously changed (no more Lightning Reload, for example), so that should be useful till I can get to that part.

    EDIT: Finished the race section finally. Now I can finally point out what's extra awesome about Goblin Gunslingers (thanks, Goblins of Golarion! ). If anyone wants to critique that section, especially the Bestiary races, feel free. I'm gonna look over Skills and Traits and my original thoughts from the Playtest Handbook and get a framework for the next post up so I can start cracking on feats.

    Note: I'm only covering Core, APG and UC for feats and traits. I made mention of PSU races but I won't be covering that book any further, as I don't own the book and trolling through the SRD gets annoying fast. If you play a psionic race, I'm sure you can pick out for yourself what's good or not.
    Last edited by Cieyrin; 2011-11-17 at 04:09 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    So how much does Dangerously Curious as a trait shoot up with Mysterious Stranger now usable?

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Sorry, I don't have any useful advice on the gunslinger itself. I just wanted to point out that that picture that's next to the title really stretches screens, being next to the text like that- could you move it down, so it doesn't cause difficulties for people on the forum on smartphones? Also, the Yellow color is pretty hard on the eyes; might want to change it to Gold, instead. (It's the orange, but it's really more gold-colored than the yellow, anyway.)

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by deuxhero View Post
    So how much does Dangerously Curious as a trait shoot up with Mysterious Stranger now usable?
    You better believe it's getting a mention, Mysterious Strangers need a Wand of Mending and those other tasty gunslinger-oriented spells. I may even make mention of much-maligned (here, at least) partially charged wands!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateral View Post
    Sorry, I don't have any useful advice on the gunslinger itself. I just wanted to point out that that picture that's next to the title really stretches screens, being next to the text like that- could you move it down, so it doesn't cause difficulties for people on the forum on smartphones? Also, the Yellow color is pretty hard on the eyes; might want to change it to Gold, instead. (It's the orange, but it's really more gold-colored than the yellow, anyway.)
    Can do. Some of the colors are bugging me a little bit for readability, looking at what I have so far. EDIT: Done. The color I was worried about was the Cyan, actually. I only used Gold for the 2 "broken" races (Drow Noble and Svirfneblin), its the readability of Cyan, even after bolding, that makes me worry.
    Last edited by Cieyrin; 2011-11-18 at 11:30 AM.
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    Note: I'm only covering Core, APG and UC for feats and traits. I made mention of PSU races but I won't be covering that book any further, as I don't own the book and trolling through the SRD gets annoying fast. If you play a psionic race, I'm sure you can pick out for yourself what's good or not.
    I wouldn't until PsiEx is released anyway - The most likely candidate for psionic gunslinging would be a Marksman.
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    First, please don't start threads with ideas you don't support just to see what reactions you get. That's almost the definition of trolling.

    Second, the whole "blue text" thing is not a forum rule or even a recommended procedure. If someone wants to do it in their own posts, fine, but everyone should stop telling people that they "need to" or "should have" posted in blue just because they're being sarcastic/ironic/whatever.

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    Can do. Some of the colors are bugging me a little bit for readability, looking at what I have so far. EDIT: Done. The color I was worried about was the Cyan, actually. I only used Gold for the 2 "broken" races (Drow Noble and Svirfneblin), its the readability of Cyan, even after bolding, that makes me worry.
    Try changing it to Sky Blue- it's more readable. Just call it 'cyan,' in keeping with other handbooks' color schemes, and call it a day.

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    So, where do I find the Favored Class Bonus for Goblin Gunslingers?

    Also, on a side note, you don't get Favored Class bonus for level 1 right?
    NS2...it's time to evolve again.

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty View Post
    So, where do I find the Favored Class Bonus for Goblin Gunslingers?

    Also, on a side note, you don't get Favored Class bonus for level 1 right?
    1. No idea.

    2. You get it every time you take a level of the favored class - including first level.

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty View Post
    So, where do I find the Favored Class Bonus for Goblin Gunslingers?

    Also, on a side note, you don't get Favored Class bonus for level 1 right?
    It's in Goblins of Golarion, the only PF splat supplement I own, besides APG and UC. Fun read, it is. Somebody at Paizo loves them some Gobbos.

    And yes, you can get the Favored Class Bonus at 1st, provided you choose your Favored Class as the class you take at 1st level. If you have multiple Favored Classes, you get it when you level in either, including at 1st level.

    Speaking of APG, I finally have a hard copy, so I don't have to fight with the PDF anymore. Hopefully that'll make getting work done easier.
    Last edited by Cieyrin; 2011-11-27 at 01:39 PM.
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Hmm... that cyan doesn't look the same as mine did.

    Oh, wait, I used Deep Sky Blue, not Sky Blue.
    Last edited by Lateral; 2011-11-27 at 01:38 PM.

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    It's in Goblins of Golarion, the only PF splat supplement I own, besides APG and UC. Fun read, it is. Somebody at Paizo loves them some Gobbos.

    And yes, you can get the Favored Class Bonus at 1st, provided you choose your Favored Class as the class you take at 1st level. If you have multiple Favored Classes, you get it when you level in either, including at 1st level.

    Speaking of APG, I finally have a hard copy, so I don't have to fight with the PDF anymore. Hopefully that'll make getting work done easier.
    I'm gonna make a warforged Gunslinger re-fluffing a Large-sized musket as a built-in arm-cannon. He's obssessed with upholding honor and the law and such. Imma spout such one-liners as "OBJECTION OVERRULED" as I shoot things
    NS2...it's time to evolve again.

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Amateur Gunslinger mentions deeds from items. Is this just a precaution, or are there actual items that do this?

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty View Post
    I'm gonna make a warforged Gunslinger re-fluffing a Large-sized musket as a built-in arm-cannon. He's obssessed with upholding honor and the law and such. Imma spout such one-liners as "OBJECTION OVERRULED" as I shoot things
    I vote for "Robocop"

    Quote Originally Posted by deuxhero View Post
    Amateur Gunslinger mentions deeds from items. Is this just a precaution, or are there actual items that do this?
    Just a precaution at this point.
    There are Enchantments that give the Firearm itself a Grit pool, but currently no Deeds.

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by grarrrg View Post
    I vote for "Robocop"
    "Undead or Alive, you're coming with ME!"

    Actually, the game I'm applying to right now has me coming from a nation that is similar to anicnet Japan, except with 'forged. The moniker for my race is "Samuroid."
    NS2...it's time to evolve again.

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    +1 Distance Musket, 80ft range increment, 9,800 gold.
    Far Reaching Sight, 4,000 gold.
    Sniper Goggles, 20,000 gold.

    Touch AC sneak attack from 800 feet away? Priceless.

    ( You could also just convert all your rogue talents into Ninja Tricks and pick up the +10 feet range trick every time, if the 20k gold piece pricetag makes you all weak in the knees. )
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Crasical View Post
    ( You could also just convert all your rogue talents into Ninja Tricks and pick up the +10 feet range trick every time, if the 20k gold piece pricetag makes you all weak in the knees. )
    If you're converting all of your Rogue Talents into Ninja tricks, why not just be a Ninja?

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    A rogue with goggles and a scope and a gun is a sniper.

    A ninja with a gun is silly.
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Crasical View Post
    A rogue with goggles and a scope and a gun is a sniper.

    A ninja with a gun is silly.
    Snake Eyes, respectfully, disagrees
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    Last edited by grarrrg; 2011-12-23 at 11:33 PM.

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by grarrrg View Post
    Snake Eyes, respectfully, disagrees
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    His gun has no scope. My point stands.
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Crasical View Post
    His gun has no scope. My point stands.
    He's a Ninja.
    He doesn't need a scope.

    You ever see the movie Quigley Down Under?
    No?
    Go watch it and get back to me. (note: it's about guns, not ninjas, still relevant though)

  29. - Top - End - #149
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Crasical's Avatar

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by grarrrg View Post
    He's a Ninja.
    He doesn't need a scope.
    Without a scope he can only perform touch attacks within the first range increment with his firearm. He needs a scope.
    I named and helped build the Pervirtuoso!
    Ask me about Simon the Warblade!

    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    [..] that post by Crasical...I can't find the words. Were I capable of emotion, I would cry.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tokuhara View Post
    That's beautiful Crasical... Simply marvelous.
    Avatar by the esteemed Prime32

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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Do remember that your initial point was that "Ninja + Gun = Silly"
    I believe I have disproved that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crasical View Post
    Without a scope he can only perform touch attacks within the first range increment with his firearm. He needs a scope.
    _MY_ point is that he is a Ninja. He can do what he wants.



    Quigley is a good movie, with an awesome ending scene (and Quigley is a Sniper!)

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