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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook


    Cieyrin, would you mind if I added my particular build to your thread?
    Last edited by Baka Nikujaga; 2012-01-07 at 06:50 AM.
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  2. - Top - End - #152
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Azazer View Post

    Cieyrin, would you mind if I added my particular build to your thread?
    Go ahead, I have _3_ versions of Gundolon posted.
    And like Cieyrin can do anything to stop you anyway.
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  3. - Top - End - #153
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Cieyrin, perhaps you should clarify in the Deeds section that Up Close and Deadly only deals half the bonus damage on a miss.
    Prestige Bard, updated for Pathfinder.

    Revamped Spell Resistance system, for use with Spell Points/Psionics.

  4. - Top - End - #154
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Azazer View Post

    Cieyrin, would you mind if I added my particular build to your thread?
    Sure, go ahead. One of these days, I'll have the time and energy to get back to work on this again. Regular bandwidth probably wouldn't be a bad thing, either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Curious View Post
    Cieyrin, perhaps you should clarify in the Deeds section that Up Close and Deadly only deals half the bonus damage on a miss.
    Yeah, I should probably, as for whatever reason I thought Clipping Shot and that part of Up Close and Deadly were that same effect. Slightly different wording, there.

    EDIT: Changed the text of both Up Close and Deadly and Clipping Shot to reflect.
    Last edited by Cieyrin; 2012-01-08 at 12:42 PM.
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  5. - Top - End - #155
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    bump for great justice! I could use some Feat advice.
    NS2...it's time to evolve again.

  6. - Top - End - #156
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty View Post
    bump for great justice! I could use some Feat advice.
    In general, most Bow/Crossbow related feats will help, I'll try to focus more on the "must have" for a Firearm user.

    MUST HAVE
    Rapid Reload, drops the reload time significantly. Pair with Cartridges for extra fun.

    Not provoke AoO's just for firing.
    Deft Shootist Deed, need Dodge/Mobility ,don't provoke for Reloading either
    Point Blank Master, needs Weapon Specialization
    Gunslinger (the feat), need Weapon Focus

    You regain Grit only if you kill something, or HIT with a Critical shot
    Improved Critical (you can't put Keen on a gun)
    Critical Focus

    Firearms target touch AC most of the time, so the loss in accuracy is negligible, the damage gain is SWEET!
    Deadly Aim

    If you DON'T plan to take Gunslinger level 7, then this is very nice, otherwise it's too similar to the Dead Shot deed (and slightly worse)
    Vital Strike

    Make Attacks of Opportunity with your firearms
    Snap Shot (Improved/Greater)

    The Gunslinger only gets a Bonus feat every 4 levels. Feel free to dip Ranger for a couple levels or Fighter for a lot of levels.
    So long as you get Gun Training at Gunslinger 5, you're good.
    Last edited by grarrrg; 2012-02-23 at 11:12 AM.

  7. - Top - End - #157
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Vital Strike is a standard action where Dead Eye is full. At least you can ready it vs casting.

  8. - Top - End - #158
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Dead Shot auto-scales and doesn't cost you 3 feats though, which is nice.

    I supposed Deadly Aim is good. I'm still worried a bit about missing however Is that +4 damage really worth the -2 to hit if my base damage per shot is alreayd 3d6+8? The math depends on the AC of the enemy of course, but I feel that the bigger your damage already is, the less worth it Dedly Aim.

    I wonder how I can jack up my accuracy besides Weapon Focus and increasing Dex. We don't have a Bard in the party.
    NS2...it's time to evolve again.

  9. - Top - End - #159
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty View Post
    Dead Shot auto-scales and doesn't cost you 3 feats though, which is nice.

    I supposed Deadly Aim is good. I'm still worried a bit about missing however Is that +4 damage really worth the -2 to hit if my base damage per shot is alreayd 3d6+8? The math depends on the AC of the enemy of course, but I feel that the bigger your damage already is, the less worth it Dedly Aim.

    I wonder how I can jack up my accuracy besides Weapon Focus and increasing Dex. We don't have a Bard in the party.
    At low levels Deadly Aim is more so-so, you lose a fair amount of to-hit, to do extra damage to something with barely any HP.
    As you level though, you'll find your accuracy improving, but critters Touch AC barely increases while their HP sky rockets.


    As for general accuracy, the only thing I can recommend is Weapon Master Fighter.
    Starting at level 3 they get +1 attack/damage bonuses (and every 4 after).

    It also gives you the option of gaining Weapon Specialization > Point Blank Master if you don't want to spend the feats for Dodge > Mobility > Deft Shootist.
    Of course, it gives you extra feats too

    But PLEASE take at least 5 levels of Gunslinger before considering multi-classing.

  10. - Top - End - #160
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty View Post
    Dead Shot auto-scales and doesn't cost you 3 feats though, which is nice.

    I supposed Deadly Aim is good. I'm still worried a bit about missing however Is that +4 damage really worth the -2 to hit if my base damage per shot is alreayd 3d6+8? The math depends on the AC of the enemy of course, but I feel that the bigger your damage already is, the less worth it Dedly Aim.

    I wonder how I can jack up my accuracy besides Weapon Focus and increasing Dex. We don't have a Bard in the party.
    Speaking of accuracy, Precise Shot is a lot more necessary than my initial suppositions, as -4 shooting into combat +4 soft cover still applies to touch ACs. Plus, it's a Prereq for Clustered Shots, which makes dealing with DR, the bane to all archers, more manageable.

    Deadly Aim + Rapid Shot (provided you're reloading as a free action via Rapid Reload/Paper Cartridge) rapidly amps up your damage. I'd wait on Deadly Aim till Gunslinger bonus feat at 4th. In the mean time, Point Blank Shot will apply most of the time, since you'll more often than not be at that range.

    For Pistols, definitely look into Oils of Long Shot, which for a minute makes your range increment 30', which is exactly the range you need before you're able to afford to put distance on your favorite gun.

    Also, I've been thinking a bit more on the usefulness of pepperboxes. The advantage isn't the free action reload, since it acts normally like you were using paper cartridges in a pistol and you don't want to reload with paper cartridges, since then it'll be worse than your pistol. The advantage is that, unlike pistols, you can load your pepperbox with multiple special bullets, like a Tracer Bullet in the first chamber and the rest +1 Humanbane bullets or whatever. This also, to my realization, gives Lightning Reload a slight boost in usefulness, both in that by that time your favorite gun is probably Steadfast at least and you can use a regular bullet to keep your pistol misfire chance at 0% on shot 1 and 2, it lets you use a second special bullet on that first volley before switching to paper cartridges. I wouldn't invest in a Pepperbox to replace your man weapon by any means but its a nice backup and special gun that should be powered by magic bullets, which should save you money in the long run.

    Finally, for early play, heavily consider Flare Rounds and Entangling Shot. The DCs are high enough in the low levels to give people problems, while you can get your fellow party members to come clean up while your target is busy being blind or hindered. The goal with them isn't the damage, it's the statuses you're inflicting. Especially with the Flare Rounds, I'd highly suggest Long Shot oil so you don't dazzle yourself in the process, since that 20' burst combined with the 15'-20' range can give you issues.

    Hope this is useful to you, I'll see if I can perhaps get to writing up Traits, Feats & Skills, maybe after I finish writing the Archetype Combo guide, which is half-done or so right now.
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  11. - Top - End - #161
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Guns Akimbo
    OR
    How the heck do I reload 2 pistols efficiently?

    (assume "modern" guns are not in play > no revolvers)

    It looks cool. Everyone in the movies does it. Two guns a blazing, cutting down the bad-guys left and right.
    But the people in the movies have access to Magazines and Gun-Fu.
    All we have are single-shot muzzle-loader types.

    The "firing" is easy enough, it's the reloading that kills us. Through use of Rapid Reload and Cartridges, we can get any/all reloads down to a Free Action. The problem with Two guns is this little rules gem:
    You need at least one hand free to load one-handed and two-handed firearms.
    Last I checked both our hands were holding guns...

    Keep in mind that using Cartridges increases your chances of Misfire, you must always be prepared to spend actions to Quick-Clear your firearm(s). There is no way to reduce a Quick-Clear to a Swift or Free action.

    There are a few options available to Gunslingers to make Two-weapon Fighting/Reloading feasible. Some of them are useable at low levels, the others require mid-to-high levels (and possibly a friend).
    Frequency of Extra Shot numbers are how often you can make use of Two-Weapon Fighting. Add your normal number of Iterative attacks to this to get your Average Shots per Round. Assumes you have Rapid Reload feat and Cartridges (i.e. Free action reload)

    Option 1A: Juggling > No Investment
    Frequency of Extra Shot: 1 extra shot ever 3rd round
    Basically, you put one gun away to free up a hand to reload the other. This is the option you're going to be stuck with at the beginning of your career as a Gunslinger. It takes a Move action to put away a weapon, and another Move to draw it, this kills our turn, and only reloads 1 gun. (Alternately, we can 'drop' an item as a Free action, but to pick it back up is a Move action that provokes AoO's).
    The Quick Draw feat can be used to halve this time, letting us reload both guns in the same round, but we still need a Move action to put the weapon(s) away.
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    w/ Quick Draw (drop&pick-up is same, but a Move/Free action are switched)
    Round 1: Full> Fire both guns (end both empty)
    Round 2: Move>Holster Gun A, Free> Reload B, Standard> Fire B, Free> reload B, Free> Draw A (end B loaded)
    Round 3: Move>Holster B, Free> reload A, Standard> Fire A, Free> Reload A, Free> Draw B (end both loaded)
    Round 4: repeat


    Weapon-Cords got the nerf-bat and now take a Move Action to recover.
    *aside*
    Here's where things start to get tricky. Here are the 2 relevant rules you may have questions on:
    Free Actions can be made during a Full-Round Action
    and
    If you are using two weapons, you can attack with either weapon first.

    Option 1B: Juggling Improved
    Frequency of Extra Shot: 1 extra shot every round
    Weapon Cords lets you retrieve a 'dropped' weapon with a Swift action. We still only get 1 Swift action/round, so if we want to reload both on the same turn we still need to spend a Move action. Still 1 Move to reload 2 guns is better than 2 Moves for 2 guns.
    Spoiler
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    Note: The each underlined portion is during a single Full-Round Action. The first Gun fired each round is the Off-Hand Gun, this is important.
    Round 1: Full> Fire Gun A, Free> Drop Gun A, Free> Reload Gun B, > Fire B (if iteratives your hand is free to reload/keep firing, end B loaded), Swift> Recover A (end B loaded, both guns in hand)
    Round 2: Full> Fire Gun B, Free> Drop Gun B, Free > Reload Gun A, > Fire A (if iteratives your hand is free to reload/keep firing, end A loaded), Swift> Recover B (end A loaded, both guns in hand)
    Round 3: repeat


    Option 2: Double-Barrel
    Frequency of Extra Shot: up to 2 extra shots per round
    Double-Barreled Pistol replaces your normal Single Barrel, almost twice as expensive, and increased chance of Misfire. The Pepperbox is NOT an option as you still need a free hand to rotate the barrel to the next shot, if we had a free hand we could just Rapid Reload>Cartridge anyway.
    Combine with Juggling techniques to further enhance.
    Spoiler
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    Note: The each underlined portion is during a single Full-Round Action. Using Double-Barreled Pistols w/Weapon Cords. The first Gun fired each round is the Off-Hand Gun, this is important.
    Round 1: Full> Fire Gun A twice, Free> Drop Gun A, Free> Reload Gun B, > Fire B twice (keep reloading/firing B if more iteratives, end B loaded), Swift> Recover A (end B loaded, both guns in hand)
    Round 2: Full> Fire Gun B twice, Free> Drop Gun B, Free> Reload Gun A, > Fire A twice (keep reloading/firing A if more iteratives, end A loaded), Swift> Recover B (end A loaded, both guns in hand)
    Round 3: repeat



    Option 3: Magic (mid/high level)
    Frequency of Extra Shot: up to 3 extra shots per round (this is the maximum, as Two-Weapon Fighting only goes up to 3 extra attacks)
    This option either requires a friendly Caster (of decent level), or a UMD+Juggling investment for yourself.
    Reloading Hands automatically loads 1 shot/round into the weapon of choice. If you can get this cast on both of your weapons, then you can fire 2 shots/round with ZERO Reload-related actions on your part, or up to 3 shots/round if using the Double-Barreled/Weapon Cord trick above. The downside is that you almost NEED a friend to cast this for you. The duration is only 1 round per level, and spending actions yourself to Cast>put wand away>draw gun defeats the purpose (and if you cast it yourself, the duration isn't likely to be very long).
    Even if you get someone to cast it for you it will either be very expensive (Wands), or drain all of your friend's level 2 spell slots. And his level 2 spell slots are probably better spent on other spells.
    Reloading Hands, like most spells, does not stack with itself, meaning you can ONLY get 1 extra shot per round (per gun).
    Unseen Servant is another (horrible) option, and is only mentioned for sake of completeness. It cannot take feats, so it does not have Rapid Reload, using Cartridges it can reload a maximum of 2 shots/round (move actions). Multiple castings CAN get you extra shots, and the duration is MUCH better than Reloading Hands (1 hour per level), but here is what kills its usefulness:
    a nonproficient character who loads a firearm increases all misfire values by 4 for the shots he loads.
    Cartridges loaded by your little friend increase the Misfire value by _4_. And your little friend only has 6 hp, so any area effect will kill him.
    <Note: Pistoleros and Musket Masters of level 13+ can ignore all Misfires>

    Saved the best option for last.

    Option 4: Need a free hand? GROW ONE! (mid level)
    A 2 level dip in Alchemist will let you take the Vestigial Arm discovery. Now you have 3 arms, 2 for guns, 1 for reloads.
    Now you can shoot as much as you want without resorting to ANY of the shenanigans listed above.

    There are also a handful of races that can have a Tail that can hold onto an item, in this case you Free Action transfer weapon to Tail, Free Action reload, then Free Action transfer back to hand.

    An alternative is to take levels in Synthesist Summoner, although that requires a greater level investment (your physical stats get replaced, and the only way to increase them is through more levels of Summoner). Levels in Synthesist also allow you to gain extra arms for even MORE attacks (just keep 1 hand empty for Reloads).
    Last edited by grarrrg; 2014-03-17 at 10:13 AM.

  12. - Top - End - #162
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Race Updates:
    From Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Dragon Empires Gazetteer
    Kitsunes are Medium sized Halflings, Humans and Tengu are the same as before, the other 3 have +2 to one important stat (Dex/Wis/Cha).

    Human: +2 any
    Kitsune: -2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Cha, Medium
    Nagaji: +2 Str, -2 Int, +2 Cha, Medium
    Samsarans: -2 Con, +2 Int, +2 Wis, Medium
    Tengu: +2 Dex, -2 Con, +2 Wis, Medium
    Wayangs: +2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Wis, Small

    New Monster PCs:
    Catfolk: +2 Dex, -2 Wis, +2 Cha, Medium
    Ratfolk: -2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Int, Small
    Suli: +2 Str, +2 Cha, Medium
    Vanara: +2 Dex, +2 Wis, -2 Cha, Medium
    Vishkanya: +2 Dex, -2 Wis, +2 Cha, Medium


    None of the newer races are bad choices.
    Kitsune, Catfolk, Vanara, and Vishkanya are good choices (+2 Dex w/ +2 Wis/Cha).

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    For a campaign that's likely to end at 11th level, how does this sound.

    Tengu Gunslinger (Musket Master) 5 / Fighter (Weapon Master 6).

    Level 1-4 feats are likely to be Rapid Reload (Musket), Point-blank Shot, and Precise Shot. I'm thinking of favoring vital strike over iterative attacks.

    Level 1 stats are (20 point buy):
    Str: 13
    Dex: 18
    Con: 10
    Int: 10
    Wis: 16
    Cha: 10

    Is vital strike a trap? (I do like rolling multiple d12s for damage.)

    What are good feats to take after I have the basics (Rapid Reload (Musket), Point-blank Shot, and Precise Shot) out of the way?

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Arutema View Post
    Tengu Gunslinger (Musket Master) 5 / Fighter (Weapon Master 6).

    Level 1 stats are (20 point buy):
    Str: 13
    Dex: 18
    Con: 10
    Int: 10
    Wis: 16
    Cha: 10


    What are good feats to take after I have the basics (Rapid Reload (Musket), Point-blank Shot, and Precise Shot) out of the way?
    Vital Strike is good, feat intensive, but good.
    Although if you spring for Gunslinger level 7 you'll get the Dead Shot deed, which is VERY similar, and doesn't require Feats.

    As for general feat help, scroll up a half dozen posts, a listed a bunch of good ones.

    On second look, I DID miss the Snap Shot line (AoO's with Firearms).

  15. - Top - End - #165
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Arutema View Post
    For a campaign that's likely to end at 11th level, how does this sound.

    Tengu Gunslinger (Musket Master) 5 / Fighter (Weapon Master 6).

    Level 1-4 feats are likely to be Rapid Reload (Musket), Point-blank Shot, and Precise Shot. I'm thinking of favoring vital strike over iterative attacks.

    Level 1 stats are (20 point buy):
    Str: 13
    Dex: 18
    Con: 10
    Int: 10
    Wis: 16
    Cha: 10

    Is vital strike a trap? (I do like rolling multiple d12s for damage.)

    What are good feats to take after I have the basics (Rapid Reload (Musket), Point-blank Shot, and Precise Shot) out of the way?
    You get Rapid Reload as a bonus feat as a Musket Master, so you don't have to worry about that. Rapid Shot, Deadly Aim, Clustered Shots, Hammer the Gap, Deft Shootist, Ricochet Shot, Snap Shot, all are good choices to pursue. At 8th and 9th, I'd suggest Improved Critical and Critical Focus to help your Grit recovery. I'd also suggest going Gunslinger to 7th if you want Vital Strike without having to spend a feat on it.
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    You get Rapid Reload as a bonus feat as a Musket Master, so you don't have to worry about that. ... I'd also suggest going Gunslinger to 7th if you want Vital Strike without having to spend a feat on it.
    How did I miss that?

    Dead Shot has the disadvantage of being a full-round action. Less time to reload and move. Clustered Shots and Hammer the Gap are only useful if you're making multiple attacks per round, and I plan to spend more time vital striking and moving/reloading ball and powder.

    Definitely going to take Deadly Aim as soon as I can.

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Arutema View Post
    How did I miss that?

    Dead Shot has the disadvantage of being a full-round action. Less time to reload and move. Clustered Shots and Hammer the Gap are only useful if you're making multiple attacks per round, and I plan to spend more time vital striking and moving/reloading ball and powder.

    Definitely going to take Deadly Aim as soon as I can.
    Rapid Reload, Paper Cartridges and Fast Musket means you should be reloading as a free action, so that shouldn't be an issue. If you're than concerned about moving and shooting for lots of damage, I suppose Vital Strike is an okay substitute, though you'll need to pick up Improved Vital Strike at 11th to keep it relevant. Though, since you're using a musket, between Distance and Steady Aim, you can shoot out to 90' and still be making touch attacks, so I don't think you necessarily need to worry so much about having to move into range so much. On the other hand, Vital Strike is too limited to compare to a full attack in terms of damage, since Vital Strike will only boost the dice rolled, not the bonus damage which is the real meat of mundane attackers, so I would still consider Hammer the Gap + Rapid Shot.
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    I'm not sure if I missed it or not Cyierin, but I noticed that in your handbook. There isn't a section for recommended firearms or prc/archetypes.

    If there is a reference. Please point me in the right direction.

    If there is not, would you mind adding? Thanks!

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander96 View Post
    I'm not sure if I missed it or not Cyierin, but I noticed that in your handbook. There isn't a section for recommended firearms or prc/archetypes.

    If there is a reference. Please point me in the right direction.

    If there is not, would you mind adding? Thanks!
    Firearms would be in post 5 and Archetypes in post 6, which I haven't gotten to writing yet. It's all listed where stuff will be in the table of contents on the first post. The Archetype-specific deeds are up in post 2, though, so there's that at least. I suppose I could hyperlink the table of contents, if it's that unclear.

    For reference, I the first 3 posts written. I do plan to finish this at some point, it's just that real life issues has kinda taken precedent for the time being.
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander96 View Post
    I'm not sure if I missed it or not Cyierin, but I noticed that in your handbook. There isn't a section for recommended firearms or prc/archetypes.

    If there is a reference. Please point me in the right direction.

    If there is not, would you mind adding? Thanks!
    Quick links to things I submitted to the guide:
    Multi/Prestige Class
    Archetype breakdown
    Short Feat list
    2-Weapon Reloading Mini-Guide
    Race section Update

    As for recommended Firearms, More Barrels = Better.
    But that might just be me.

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by grarrrg View Post
    As for recommended Firearms, More Barrels = Better.
    But that might just be me.
    idk whether that really pans out, since it goes down to when you add extra barrels that you're basically forced into being treated as using paper cartridges in terms of misfire chance, which annoys me to no end. The plus with them is you can load your multibarreled weaponry with special bullets (read: +1 humanbane holy bullets or whatever, led by a Tracer Bullet) and get more than one shot of your full attack as something nice, rather than just reg shot. Just...don't reload with paper cartridges, you can load a pistol or musket for less misfire and double barreled muskets have **** range on them for whatever reason (why do they lose 30' of range from a regular musket while the musket weapons only lose 10'?!? Ridiculous! ).
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  22. - Top - End - #172
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    idk whether that really pans out, since it goes down to when you add extra barrels that you're basically forced into being treated as using paper cartridges in terms of misfire chance, which annoys me to no end. The plus with them is you can load your multibarreled weaponry with special bullets (read: +1 humanbane holy bullets or whatever, led by a Tracer Bullet) and get more than one shot of your full attack as something nice, rather than just reg shot. Just...don't reload with paper cartridges, you can load a pistol or musket for less misfire and double barreled muskets have **** range on them for whatever reason (why do they lose 30' of range from a regular musket while the musket weapons only lose 10'?!? Ridiculous! ).
    Wow, I just noticed that about Double-Musket One would pray it's somehow a misprint, not even the Double Barreled pistol is that bad! And in fact, the Double Pistol has the SAME range as the basic Pistol.
    I CALL SHENANIGANS!

    On a side not, the Reliable enchantments can negate the drawback, and the reason I like Double barreled Pistols is that you can "swift-action" reload them with weapon cords (see the Reload mini-guide for details).

    As for the Musket problem... you could always take 3 levels of Luring Cavalier, it lets you target Touch AC up to 2 range increments away, add in the Distance enchantment, and you're (sadly) back up to 40ft.

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by grarrrg View Post
    Wow, I just noticed that about Double-Musket One would pray it's somehow a misprint, not even the Double Barreled pistol is that bad! And in fact, the Double Pistol has the SAME range as the basic Pistol.
    I CALL SHENANIGANS!

    On a side not, the Reliable enchantments can negate the drawback, and the reason I like Double barreled Pistols is that you can "swift-action" reload them with weapon cords (see the Reload mini-guide for details).

    As for the Musket problem... you could always take 3 levels of Luring Cavalier, it lets you target Touch AC up to 2 range increments away, add in the Distance enchantment, and you're (sadly) back up to 40ft.
    The only ? I have is if you do that. Does that take a lot away from the perks the gunslinger class gives you?

  24. - Top - End - #174
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by grarrrg View Post
    Wow, I just noticed that about Double-Musket One would pray it's somehow a misprint, not even the Double Barreled pistol is that bad! And in fact, the Double Pistol has the SAME range as the basic Pistol.
    I CALL SHENANIGANS!
    I can only hope, as it's currently really bad. The blunderbuss has a long range, for crying out loud!

    On a side not, the Reliable enchantments can negate the drawback, and the reason I like Double barreled Pistols is that you can "swift-action" reload them with weapon cords (see the Reload mini-guide for details).
    Yeah, that is a nice perk and method of managing that without having to resort to a Glove of Storing, which the PF version explicitly makes you only have one available. I miss the Kimono of Storing for Crossbows Akimbo shenanigans in 3.X.

    As for the Musket problem... you could always take 3 levels of Luring Cavalier, it lets you target Touch AC up to 2 range increments away, add in the Distance enchantment, and you're (sadly) back up to 40ft.
    Presumably, you'd be a Musket Master to get Steady Aim and a free Rapid Reload, so you can improve the range to 40' on single shots and thus 80' with Careful Aim. Get an Oil of Long Shot to pump it up to 60'/120' and it's somewhat usable. Between Luring Cavalier and Musketeer, you get a nice bunch of features, don't ya? Hmm...
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    Presumably, you'd be a Musket Master to get Steady Aim and a free Rapid Reload, so you can improve the range to 40' on single shots and thus 80' with Careful Aim. Get an Oil of Long Shot to pump it up to 60'/120' and it's somewhat usable. Between Luring Cavalier and Musketeer, you get a nice bunch of features, don't ya? Hmm...
    Trophy Hunter Ranger gets the same "2 range increment > Touch AC", but at level 4. Cavalier is quicker by 1 level.
    They both use the language "stacks with any other range increasing...", but they also both specify "two range increments".
    If you can convince your DM that that means +1 range increment, go for it.
    Otherwise, there is no benefit to taking both.

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Ammo...how much does it cost to make?

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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander96 View Post
    Ammo...how much does it cost to make?
    A dose of black powder costs 1g if you make it yourself, and bullets or shot cost 1sp. You can make a Paper powder cartridge to reload rapidly for 1 gold, 2 silver.
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  28. - Top - End - #178
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Crasical View Post
    A dose of black powder costs 1g if you make it yourself, and bullets or shot cost 1sp. You can make a Paper powder cartridge to reload rapidly for 1 gold, 2 silver.
    Not quite true, in that to make cartridges, you need a rank of Craft(Alchemy) and it only reduces the cost of cartridges by half, so paper cartridges cost 6 gp a piece. Still worthwhile, though.
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    Not quite true, in that to make cartridges, you need a rank of Craft(Alchemy) and it only reduces the cost of cartridges by half, so paper cartridges cost 6 gp a piece. Still worthwhile, though.
    I thought Cartridges didn't cost anything?


    Seriously though. It's handy for leftover Grit at the end of the day, or for "you travel for 4 days without incident".

  30. - Top - End - #180
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    Default Re: [PF] The Gunslinger's Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by grarrrg View Post
    I thought Cartridges didn't cost anything?


    Seriously though. It's handy for leftover Grit at the end of the day, or for "you travel for 4 days without incident".
    Y'need to read that again, bullets and black powder don't cost anything through the feat. Cartridges still cost you moneys.
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