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    Default Can someone explain level draining?

    I understand the basics of D&D, but I don't know the specifics of level draining.

    I've been under the impression that Sabine has been draining levels from Elan. For one, how many levels do you guys suppose he lost so far and second, how does he get them back? Are they permanently lost? Can he just permanently lose SOME of them? I mean, that would be kind of brutal since they take so long to earn! He must be virtually useless with his level dropped so much.

    Thanks in advance.

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    Default Re: Can someone explain level draining?

    Okay, level draining actually applies something called a "negative level" which gives penalties to pretty much everything you do and has a few other minor effects. If your negative levels ever equal your actual level, you die. Otherwise, you get to make a Fortitude save (usually after 24 hours have passed) for each negative level to see if you can remove it. If you fail the save, only then do you really lose a level. Even if you lost real levels, you can get them back by receiving a greater restoration spell, which Durkon should be powerful enough to cast (since it's the same level spell as ressurection).

    As for how many negative levels he's gained, a succubus' kiss drains 1 level each time, and so far I've counted 5 panels where Elan was surrounded by the negative energy effect. Now, there were two instances where he had the effect around him for consecutive panels, so he has probably gained 3 - 5 negative levels. Based on Nale's dialogue during the extended kissing, I'm guessing he got drained twice right there, so 4 or 5. It's not quite as clear in the latest comic since it could be only one despite the aura being in two panels (timing in comics is weird that way).

    I hope that helps clear things up for you.
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    Default Re: Can someone explain level draining?

    What do they need to succeed on the fort save? And do they have to do it for each level, or all at once?

    And they can always be restored, right? Is it expensive? Does a player typically encounter level draining enemies before they have the ability to remove it?

    Also, if you learned a feat on your current level, you lose it? Like, you lose anything that you gained, just as if you never earned the level?

    Sorry for the slew of questions. Should be pretty easy for a learned player to answer though.

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    Default Re: Can someone explain level draining?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeitgeist View Post
    What do they need to succeed on the fort save? And do they have to do it for each level, or all at once?
    You make a seperate save for each negative level. The DC is 21 for a standard succubus, but if Sabine has additional levels or a higher Charisma score then it will be higher.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeitgeist View Post
    And they can always be restored, right? Is it expensive?
    A greater restoration spell will return all lost levels, but only ones that have been lost within one week per level of the guy casting it (minimum 15 weeks since it's a 7th level spell). It doesn't cost any money, but the caster must sacrifice 500 XP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeitgeist View Post
    Does a player typically encounter level draining enemies before they have the ability to remove it?
    I have no idea. If you have a Cleric on hand, you can remove all negative levels from a person before they become actual level loss by keeping restoration prepared, which you can cast by 7th level. There shouldn't be too many level draining enemies before that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeitgeist View Post
    Also, if you learned a feat on your current level, you lose it? Like, you lose anything that you gained, just as if you never earned the level?
    Only if your negative level becomes permanent level loss. At that point, you basically need to recalculate your character's stats at your lower level.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeitgeist View Post
    Sorry for the slew of questions. Should be pretty easy for a learned player to answer though.
    No problem, although there's this handy website where you can find this sort of information on your own.
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    Default Re: Can someone explain level draining?

    Thanks for all the info.

    That being said, Elan is going to have it rough unless Durkon has the spell prepared right now.

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    Default Re: Can someone explain level draining?

    Even if Elan has to wait a day and fails all the saves, Durkon will still be able to undo the level loss by casting Restoration a few times or Greater Restoration once.
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    Default Re: Can someone explain level draining?

    Elan has 24 hours from the time of each kiss. Durkon will have his next day's set of spells before then. There's no danger of Durkon not having the spell prepared, even if it's not something he usually prepares.

    For that matter, it wouldn't cost any costly material components or XP to just prepare a whole bunch of spells to boost Elan's Fort save. If he makes all the saves, the Restoration is unnecessary.

    Oh, and as a general rule, if a monster has the ability to do something nasty to a player that can only be undone via a spell of some level, the monster's challenge rating will be at least as high as the minimum level to cast that spell. So in general, you won't meet a thing that can petrify until after you have Break Enchantment available, you won't meet something that can level drain until after you have Restoration available, you won't meet something that can kill instantly until after you have Raise Dead available, and so on. It is possible to encounter monsters with a CR above your level occasionally, but that's usually the result of either player stupidity, or a major campaign-changing event where it's OK to have lasting consequences.
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    Default Re: Can someone explain level draining?

    Things have changed from previous editions, haven't they? IIRC, back when D&D was AD&D, if you were touched by a monster like a wight or a vampire your level was *gone*, and the only way to get it back was by earning more XP.


    Respectfully,

    Brian P.

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    Default Re: Can someone explain level draining?

    Quote Originally Posted by pendell View Post
    Things have changed from previous editions, haven't they? IIRC, back when D&D was AD&D, if you were touched by a monster like a wight or a vampire your level was *gone*, and the only way to get it back was by earning more XP.


    Respectfully,

    Brian P.
    AD&D already had the restoration spell to bring back drained levels

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    Default Re: Can someone explain level draining?

    It is possible to encounter monsters with a CR above your level occasionally, but that's usually the result of either player stupidity, or a major campaign-changing event where it's OK to have lasting consequences
    That's very true.

    The rules are different in a story though. The characters don't really have the option of simply avoiding non-CR appropriate encounters. Even when they do have the option, they sometimes don't consider it., since almost every major encounter has lasting consequences.

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    Default Re: Can someone explain level draining?

    And, of course, if your DM is cruel/incompetent enough, you could encounter just about anything at any level, regardless of circumstances.

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    Default Re: Can someone explain level draining?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilphon View Post
    And, of course, if your DM is cruel/incompetent enough, you could encounter just about anything at any level, regardless of circumstances.
    You mean, it wasn't quite right for my DM to send my Monk 3 / Truenamer 2 to solo five Pit Fiends and a Tarrasque?

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    Default Re: Can someone explain level draining?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steward View Post
    You mean, it wasn't quite right for my DM to send my Monk 3 / Truenamer 2 to solo five Pit Fiends and a Tarrasque?
    No, that's understandable. Monks are overpowered. (Your put your highest stat into Charisma, right?)

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    Default Re: Can someone explain level draining?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
    Oh, and as a general rule, if a monster has the ability to do something nasty to a player that can only be undone via a spell of some level, the monster's challenge rating will be at least as high as the minimum level to cast that spell. So in general, you won't meet a thing that can petrify until after you have Break Enchantment available, you won't meet something that can level drain until after you have Restoration available, you won't meet something that can kill instantly until after you have Raise Dead available, and so on.
    I dont know where you get this from.
    As others have noted, you need restoration to remove negative levels, which is a 4th level spell. So normaly you will need a character of at least 7th level to cast it. Now, lets take a look at the CRs of level draining monsters in the SRD:
    The earliest is, quite suprisingly, the Vampire. As a CR +2 template, you could theoreticly encounter CR 2-3 vampires.
    The next in the line is the wight. A bog-standart croporal undead with not much going for other his energy drain. CR 3
    Then the wraith, a nasty incorporal. CR 5
    The Specter (or wraith++) comes at CR 7, as does the succubus, and finaly the dread wraith at CR 11. Maybe I've missed something, but as you can see there are three energy draining monster considered to be standard throw-away-25%-of-daily-resource encounters way before ECL 7.
    I havent checked it, but I dare to say, that this translates to pretty much every other status effect. You can encounter poisones enemy before you can deal with poison, meet petrifying monster before you can deal with that (the lovely cockatrice is CR 3), and I am sure as hell that you will encounter lots of things that can kill you just fine before you can resurect.

    It is possible to encounter monsters with a CR above your level occasionally, but that's usually the result of either player stupidity, or a major campaign-changing event where it's OK to have lasting consequences.
    Wrong again. Following the guidelines in the DMG (p. 49) it is expected that a certain protion of the encounters is of a lower EL then the parties APL, but also that a portion is of higher EL, and even some (5%) that the group is supposed to run away from/get creative. In fact, an EL = APL +4 encounter is regarded as a fair 50/50 chance of survival.
    Last edited by Zombimode; 2011-09-19 at 06:47 PM.

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    Default Re: Can someone explain level draining?

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    No, that's understandable. Monks are overpowered. (Your put your highest stat into Charisma, right?)
    Well, the DM made me use Non-Elite Array, so I put the 13 in Cha.

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    Default Re: Can someone explain level draining?

    Since it hasn't come up yet, I'll explain what exactly negative levels do.

    For each negative level, you suffer -1 to attack rolls, skill checks, saving throws, and ability checks. Your maximum HP is also reduced by -5 (and this is another thing that can kill you.)

    Also, spellcasters suffer -1 caster level (and other classes with level-dependent abilities also suffer similarly.) They also lose one of their highest-level spell slots and the spell prepared in it. This is why Durkon is in trouble right now, even though he only lost 1d4 levels.
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    Default Re: Can someone explain level draining?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeitgeist View Post
    Can he just permanently lose SOME of them? I mean, that would be kind of brutal since they take so long to earn! He must be virtually useless with his level dropped so much.
    From my limited understanding, it's not QUITE that bad.

    ...As long as it's mostly just Elan.

    What matters is the kind of critters the party is still able to tackle despite Elan being level-drained. If the party is currently level 15-ish, as they seem to be, and aren't too badly impacted by Elan being more useless than usual (okay, to be fair, he's been getting better), then Elan will get a bigger chunk of XP with each party kill than he did back when he was originally earning those levels (when his party's average level and the monsters' general CR was lower), so he'll be earning them back quicker than he did the original ones. It wouldn't take THAT long for him to catch up with the others again.

    ...Not that that's much of a consolation.
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    Default Re: Can someone explain level draining?

    Quote Originally Posted by SoC175 View Post
    AD&D already had the restoration spell to bring back drained levels
    In theory, sure. But good luck finding a cleric that would cast it.

    The problem being, high-level healing spells (including Resurrection and Restoration) would age the caster by 3 to 5 years. That means an instant system shock roll for the caster (fail and die, permanently), plus - well, 3 to 5 years off your maximum life. Maybe to an elf that wouldn't seem such a big deal, but unfortunately only humans could ever reach the cleric levels required to cast the spell.

    So you could spend months looking for a cleric sufficiently desperate for money, and shower them with outrageous amounts of treasure. Or you could just go out and earn the XP back, which would almost certainly be quicker.
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    Default Re: Can someone explain level draining?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaytara View Post
    What matters is the kind of critters the party is still able to tackle despite Elan being level-drained. If the party is currently level 15-ish, as they seem to be, and aren't too badly impacted by Elan being more useless than usual (okay, to be fair, he's been getting better), then Elan will get a bigger chunk of XP with each party kill than he did back when he was originally earning those levels (when his party's average level and the monsters' general CR was lower), so he'll be earning them back quicker than he did the original ones. It wouldn't take THAT long for him to catch up with the others again.
    That's the "official" rationale, and I don't buy it. If you have lost several levels, which depending on where you started can be several thousand or tens of thousands worth of XP, getting a few hundred XP more than the other PCs after each adventure won't cut it. You are always going to lag behind the rest, because THEY advance in level too, and if you lost 10.000 XP then you will at best after several campaigns have regained the level you started from.

    If the group is, say, level 10, and I lost 3 levels, by the time you are level 10 again the others will be level 12. Wow. Not to mention if you are trying to survive CR 10 encounters while being the only one in the group who is level 7, you might die again. Or you just stand in the back because you don't have as much to contribute, because in 3rd edition (compared to AD&D 2nd Ed), all those class powers and spells you lose along with the levels make a much bigger difference. In AD&D the power difference between, say, a 5th level and a 6th level character wasn't that obvious, unless you were a full spellcaster and dependent on spell levels.

    No, it's a good thing there are spells like i.e. the three Restoration spells (lesser/standard/greater), Panacea, Break Enchantment, Deathward, Protection from Negative Energy, and Heal. Of course, then the game mostly becomes a "challenge" of having the right spells to counter whatever the opponent can hit you with. In a game so focussed on levels and powers instead of roleplaying like D&D, one random monster might ruin a whole character if those healing spells didn't exist. The game designers put in monsters that can do A, and spells that can do anti-A. The progression is clear: Back in old D&D 1st ed, there were monsters and spells that could kill you instantly, no saving throw. Then in AD&D you did at least get a chance at a saving throw, but the infamous "save-or-die" effects still existed.

    In 3rd Edition, especially in 3.5, they made level draining temporary and gave you plenty time to prevent them from becoming permanent, and spells like Disintegrate, Finger of Death, Power Word Kill are no longer instantly fatal even if you fail the save, provided you have enough hitpoints left. Also necromantic spells like Finger of Death and Power Word Kill now only kill you, but with a chance to be raised or resurrected later; once upon a time, in AD&D, if you were killed by those spells or by certain monsters you could no even be raised or resurrected.

    If your cleric is at least 9th level and has Revivify on stand-by (a level 5 cleric spell, see the Spell Compendium, page 176), a spell that must be cast within one round after someone dying, the cleric can bring the dead PC back without level loss or CON loss, with no spells lost, to -1 hp and stable. (He only needs to touch the recipient, a good reason why clerics should invest in some way to cast touch spells at a distance.) There's also the level 2 cleric spell Close Wounds (Spell Compendium page 48), which can be cast at a distance as an immediate action (meaning you can cast it even when it's not yet your turn to act! and then cast another normal spell as a standard action later), yes the spell only heals 1d4+5 hp max, but does it immediately when another PC is in danger of falling below -10 hp. Might make the difference between life and death.

    As for 4th Edition, as far as I heard they abolished death spells completely?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sardia View Post
    Well, if you spent the main part of your career seeing ungodly monstrosities, violations of the laws of physics, occasionally coming back from the dead, being attacked by creatures natural and unnatural, chased by things a hundred times your size, etc, etc...I'd see the need for some stress release.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zombimode View Post
    (snip) You can encounter poisones enemy before you can deal with poison, meet petrifying monster before you can deal with that (the lovely cockatrice is CR 3), (snip)
    As much as I love the cockatrice as a concept, it and the basilisk are among those monsters taken from mythology where people didn't bother with concepts like "game balance" . The cockatrice is especially unbalanced as a CR3, because if the group is low-level, say level 2, a single cockatrice (which has 5 HD) might petrify half the party if it surprises them, with no chance to de-petrify the victims unless you find powerful NPC help. I mean, the damn thing looks like a mangy chicken from afar, at first glance they might think it's a chicken with some lizardy template, especially if none of the characters has any arcane knowledge to identify the critter and the players don't use player knowledge as character knowledge. On the other hand, if the group is forewarned, they can simply slaughter the cockatrice from afar with ranged attacks.

    The problem with the CR system is that the game designers seem to have put too much importance on strength and HD and on the quantityof special abilities a critter has, instead of paying attention to WHAT KIND of powers a critter has. Thus big dumb giants often have a high CR, despite the fact that even a relatively low-level group can surround a giant and slaughter it quickly, as the giant has no regeneration or Damage resistance or magical attacks. On the other hand, monsters with stun powers (shocker lizard CR2), petrification (cockatrice CR3) petrifying gaze (basilisk CR5, medusa CR7) or paralysis (ghoul CR1, ghast CR3, grell CR3), or natural invisibility (imp CR2 with invisibility as a spell like ability at will, invisible stalker CR7 with improved invisibility) can overwhelm a low-level or even mid-level party. Put two or more of those small shocker lizards together and they can deliver lethal shocks as a ranged area attack! (Note: Shocker lizards are gregarious and usually if you see one there's a colony nearby.) Constructs and other creatures with damage resistance or spell resistance can also be much nastier than a big monster that simply stomps around and does 10d8 smashing damage... why care, if the smasher never manages to hit you?
    http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/lists/monsters

    That is why in my group I introduced a cockatrice-chicken crossbreed that only did short-term paralysis instead of petrification when it pecked a 1st level character. And it wasn't a meat eater. It was still a nasty shock to the characters who thought they could steal a chicken for lunch. ;-)

    Because I had once been one of those low-level characters who, at level 2, ran into a cockatrice, and afterwards had to spend money we couldn't afford on a spell scroll with Break Enchantment (which our wizard technically couldn't cast) to de-petrify the paladin statue. *cough*

    Worse, the Stone to Flesh arcane spell that is supposed to be used to de-petrify characters is of a higher level (Wiz/Sorc 6) than Break Enchantment (Brd 4, Clr 5, Luck 5, Pal 4, Sor/Wiz 5), and with Stone to Flesh, the creature must make a DC 15 Fortitude save to survive the process!! Therefore, no-one in his right mind uses Stone to Flesh, not even as a counter to Flesh to Stone.

    The weird thing is, Break Enchantment has always been the number 1 spell used to de-petrify people. After all, it is specifically designed to (quote) "free victims from enchantments, transmutations, and curses. Break enchantment can reverse even an instantaneous effect" (which the level 3 Dispel Magic cannot). Previous editions even specifically mentioned de-petrification! But in edition 3.5, for some reason the game designers saw fit to add the sentence: "If the spell is one that cannot be dispelled by dispel magic, break enchantment works only if that spell is 5th level or lower." Which technically would make Break Enchantment unable to break Flesh to Stone, because Flesh to Stone is an instantaneous effect spell and is a level 6 spell. What the hell? With that sentence, they basically contradicted their own declaration that "Break enchantment can reverse even an instantaneous effect", which is where several rules collide. Oh well. Anyone I know basically ignores the implications and still uses Break Enchantment to undo petrifications.

    Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not whining that encounters in D&D are too hard... in some ways I think the system mollycoddles players and their characters, esp in 4th edition. (Heck, I play Cthulhu and KULT RPG.) But if the game designers put such emphasis on the concept of "level-appropriate encounters" they need to check their CR system. Otherwise players are being trained to expect that they have a good chance to win every fight, which means many players will simply not retreat from a fight even if the tiny kobold turns out to be a high-level sorcerer or a polymorphed dragon.
    Last edited by Tobrian; 2011-09-20 at 10:13 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sardia View Post
    Well, if you spent the main part of your career seeing ungodly monstrosities, violations of the laws of physics, occasionally coming back from the dead, being attacked by creatures natural and unnatural, chased by things a hundred times your size, etc, etc...I'd see the need for some stress release.
    Quote Originally Posted by Attilargh View Post
    "Laughter", while a necessary part of the word "manslaughter", is considered poor taste when committing the act itself.

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    Default Re: Can someone explain level draining?

    Quote Originally Posted by pendell View Post
    Things have changed from previous editions, haven't they? IIRC, back when D&D was AD&D, if you were touched by a monster like a wight or a vampire your level was *gone*, and the only way to get it back was by earning more XP.


    Respectfully,

    Brian P.
    Yeah, and the only defense against stuff like that was a scarab of protection -- if you were lucky enough to get your hands on one...

    Most vampires drained two life energy levels per touch, but I remember one in a Ravenloft product -- I think it might have been Strahd von Zarovich's niece or some other female relative -- who could drain FIVE levels per touch!!!

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    Default Re: Can someone explain level draining?

    Personally, I think level-draining is getting to be a bit overused in the comic. I know it's a scary attack that a lot of gamers fear, but we've seen these guys get level-drained more frequently than we've seen them level up.

    (I'm not saying every quest should involve saving a bucket of garbage wheat from a blind one-legged orc, I just think we've seen level draining far more than any other special attack.)


    I withdraw my complaint, since it's been graciously pointed out to me that I have obviously mis-interpreted my own opinion.
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    Default Re: Can someone explain level draining?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beeskee View Post
    Personally, I think level-draining is getting to be a bit overused in the comic. I know it's a scary attack that a lot of gamers fear, but we've seen these guys get level-drained more frequently than we've seen them level up.

    (I'm not saying every quest should involve saving a bucket of garbage wheat from a blind one-legged orc, I just think we've seen level draining far more than any other special attack.)
    Realistically, it is used so much for the same reason projectile weapons are used in the real world -- it is very, very effective at what it does. It weakens the enemy's saving throws, weakens his attacks so it improves your saving throws against them, makes the enemy incapable of using his or her most dangerous spells, and can kill outright. Why wouldn't someone use it if they had access to it?


    If a villain had time and resources to prepare for the fight and did NOT equip themselves with the best items and buffs, wouldn't we say they'd been handed the idiot ball?

    Respectfully,

    Brian P.
    Last edited by pendell; 2011-09-20 at 03:03 PM.

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    Default Re: Can someone explain level draining?

    True. But they could do other types of attacks too. Isn't there a "weakness to fire" spell? Combine that with fireball. I know level draining is effective but surely there's alternatives that are just as effective.

    I know it's native to Sabine, and Xykon likes it a lot, Tsu's undead use it, and now Nale has a wand that does it... It would be funny if the PCs used it on Nale and thus forced Nale to stop using it because it was no longer "opposite". That would be a legit way to get one enemy to no longer use that attack, without handing them the idiot ball and forcing them to hang on for dear life.


    Do PCs even get any kind of "level draining" attack? I've only played AD&D 2nd Edition and that was a LONG time ago. (Maybe that's why level drains annoy me, because of how much worse they used to be. ;)


    I'd re-read the comic from the beginning a few weeks ago and was starting to feel like level draining was overused even before the current scenario. So this isn't a recent development for me.
    Last edited by Beeskee; 2011-09-20 at 03:32 PM.
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    Default Re: Can someone explain level draining?

    Enervation is castable by PC arcane classes, as is Energy drain .

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    Brian P.

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    Default Re: Can someone explain level draining?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beeskee View Post
    It would be funny if the PCs used it on Nale and thus forced Nale to stop using it because it was no longer "opposite".
    Nale has never avoided using spells just because someone in the Order used them, from Expeditious Retreat to Suggestion. Indeed, his ridiculous build would be even more totally crippled if he was unwilling to use any illusion spell Elan cast.

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    Default Re: Can someone explain level draining?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beeskee View Post
    Personally, I think level-draining is getting to be a bit overused in the comic. I know it's a scary attack that a lot of gamers fear, but we've seen these guys get level-drained more frequently than we've seen them level up.

    (I'm not saying every quest should involve saving a bucket of garbage wheat from a blind one-legged orc, I just think we've seen level draining far more than any other special attack.)

    Durkon agrees, that's why he is researching mass deathward.

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    Default Re: Can someone explain level draining?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beeskee View Post
    True. But they could do other types of attacks too. Isn't there a "weakness to fire" spell? Combine that with fireball. I know level draining is effective but surely there's alternatives that are just as effective.

    I know it's native to Sabine, and Xykon likes it a lot, Tsu's undead use it, and now Nale has a wand that does it... It would be funny if the PCs used it on Nale and thus forced Nale to stop using it because it was no longer "opposite". That would be a legit way to get one enemy to no longer use that attack, without handing them the idiot ball and forcing them to hang on for dear life.
    Xykon specifically is built for using level drains and it makes him superb at fighting single opponents, particularly opposing arcane casters, since he can drain their HP, hurt their saves, and knock out their best spells all at the same time.

    As far as others, pretty much all level drains around team evil come from Xykon, and even Tsukiko's undead level draining people indirectly comes from the fact that she joined with Xykon because she loves undead. So it's still all Xykon...kinda.

    Sabine has been around forever and her level drain is essentially expected of any demon of illicity sex.

    Pretty much the only oddball is Nale going out of his way to get a wand of enervation, and I think it works pretty well for the story at this point because it's a great way of showing that Nale has gotten more serious than the last encounter.
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    Anarion's right on the money here.
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    Default Re: Can someone explain level draining?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beeskee View Post
    True. But they could do other types of attacks too. Isn't there a "weakness to fire" spell? Combine that with fireball. I know level draining is effective but surely there's alternatives that are just as effective.
    Not really, pretty much the only thing more effective (especially against spellcaster) then level drain in a duel are save or die spells. Save or die spells are barely ever used at all in the comic for obvious reason, they are just so anticlimatic and boring, just go watch the «ultimate cleric battle» again. Personally, we stopped using those in all my D&D groups a long time ago, not just because they're overpowered but mainly because, once again, they are frigging boring. So yeah, any spellcaster that know what hes doing is gonna have some level-drain spell if they can access to it, its just common sense. And as for Sabine, shes a succubus...pretty much all they do is level-draining really. Thats kinda why Durkon is researching that mass death ward and thats also why you always want a cleric in your party. Too bad he hadnt finished his research in this comic.
    Last edited by Querzis; 2011-09-21 at 04:37 AM.
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    Default Re: Can someone explain level draining?

    I realize it's innate to succubi (I said 'native' before, I meant 'innate', oops lol)

    I think any attack gets boring if it's overused. Variety is nice.


    Hopefully Durkon gets Mass Death Ward working right.
    Last edited by Beeskee; 2011-09-21 at 04:42 AM.
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