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  1. - Top - End - #361
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramsus View Post
    If you go with the marks then I think you should auto-remove marks (and know you did so) on teammates as those are likely the only people you'd want to remove the marks of and it doesn't end up with you having to spend two nights of actions when you could be marking people on the other teams.

    Also, I wasn't clear on if teammates know each other or not. If not then I wouldn't do the marks and let scries work more normally.

    Edit: The theme should clearly be four colored chess. Ivory, Obsidian, Marble, and Iron.

    Edit 2: Realized some people might not realized I was joking there. If you have four teams they should be Hearts, Spades, Diamonds, and Clubs.
    Interesting theme. That sounds great, especially if I decide to just drop any RP or story (unless you can think of something interesting?). And no, teammates would not know each other (I honestly don't think it would be much of a game at all if they did, certainly not like a WW game.). Also, just to clarify, I think you mean that once they scry a teammate that has a mark it get auto-removed? Sounds good. I will also make an edit (since it looks like I made it really unclear) that I am considering simply making the marks permanent.

    EDIT: Oh wait, I get what you mean, if teammates know each other. I would prefer not, but I will give that some thought. Might make things interesting.
    Last edited by 101jir; 2011-11-27 at 03:47 PM.
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  2. - Top - End - #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramsus View Post
    If you have four teams they should be Hearts, Spades, Diamonds, and Clubs.
    Agreed, but if 101jir uses that theme, I hope he doesn't run his game any time near when I run my own variant. I still need to play a few more games and run classic or lite to get a better feel before I try my own variant, so mine probably won't be until some time next year.

  3. - Top - End - #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by BourgeoisJerry View Post
    Agreed, but if 101jir uses that theme, I hope he doesn't run his game any time near when I run my own variant. I still need to play a few more games and run classic or lite to get a better feel before I try my own variant, so mine probably won't be until some time next year.
    Mine will be way sooner then next year. At the abslute longest, next summer. More likely if I don't run it within the next month, then sometime this semester.
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  4. - Top - End - #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by flabort View Post
    Banjo: Huh. Any particular reason Death-Tells-You-Nothing style games erk you so much?
    Sorry, only just noticed this. Ther basic reason is that I don't enjoy having nothing to analyse. No information on dead players, no way of analysing votes without knowing the roles of the player that was voted for, and if you don't have a role you spend pretty much the whole game in the dark randomly voting, because there's nothing to go on. It turns into a game where everyone relies on the seer, because they're the only guy that knows what's going on. That's why I like the inclusion of the card 'suits', at least that gives a team the dead player is on, something to hang vote analysis on.

    Not saying these kind of games are bad, I just don't enjoy them personally and tend to steer clear of them. With limited time these days I have to pick and choose my WW games, and I don't often risk my quota on a game I most likely won't enjoy.
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  5. - Top - End - #365
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    I dont have time to post this in any game i play, so please quote me to these threads.

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  6. - Top - End - #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by Penguinator View Post
    Who would be interested in a game that runs like WitchHunt, but with even less information?

    Like WitchHunt: No PMs, roles not revealed upon death, high-analysis requirement, every role has some sort of power, day ends when vote reaches lynch requirement.

    Unlike WitchHunt: I don't give you a list of all the roles, (but I will give enough so you know what you need to know) wolves are blind, it's medieval-themed, each player has their own QT which I set up.
    Well, it could be fun, but I'd worry about game balance. I'd highly suggest you find a very experient co-narrator to help weed off these before game begins.

    But it'sa good idea, we need another sort of withunt game, I only managed to play one, and the last one was sort of a headache to mod (I'd even settle for the first ruleset, it was pretty fun, and not as unbalanced as it may sound, provided the WW gets some small changes).

    Quote Originally Posted by 101jir View Post
    OK, here is a game that I might consider running, depending on future events (such as how soon I am out in Dip, and how college goes). Probably won't be on the roster for a while though.

    Also, I need a name for this game. It may be a while until this game gets on the roster. Hopefully this will help to sooth the foul taste of Insane Mafia.
    I see one flaw that I don't think others have said: it's kind of easy to have a tie. In fact, unless one of the two last players is a sniper I think it's impossible for a team to win. And if both arethen its a tie because they both kill each other.

    @BourgeoisJerry/101: In case both of you want a card theme, you don't have to both use this one. There's also the spanish deck that has swords, clubs, golds and cups (respectively the spades, clubs, diamonds and hearts from the "standard" one).
    Last edited by Gray Mage; 2011-11-28 at 06:47 PM.

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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Mage View Post
    Well, it could be fun, but I'd worry about game balance. I'd highly suggest you find a very experient co-narrator to help weed off these before game begins.
    Thaaat's probably a good idea. Anybody interested in co-narrating such a game?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Mage View Post
    @BourgeoisJerry/101: In case both of you want a card theme, you don't have to both use this one. There's also the spanish deck that has swords, clubs, golds and cups (respectively the spades, clubs, diamonds and hearts from the "standard" one).
    Tarot has four "suits" for its minor arcana, Pentacles (Coins), Chalices, Staves, and Swords.


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  8. - Top - End - #368
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by Penguinator View Post
    Thaaat's probably a good idea. Anybody interested in co-narrating such a game?
    Well, I'm much more interested in playing it, but if no one else volunteeres and depending on when the game begins, I may be able to help you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Penguinator View Post
    Tarot has four "suits" for its minor arcana, Pentacles (Coins), Chalices, Staves, and Swords.
    I had forgotten the correct word was "suit". Thanks for that.
    And see, this is a third different card theme. I bet there are even more out there.
    Last edited by Gray Mage; 2011-11-28 at 07:09 PM.

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  9. - Top - End - #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Mage View Post
    @BourgeoisJerry/101: In case both of you want a card theme, you don't have to both use this one. There's also the spanish deck that has swords, clubs, golds and cups (respectively the spades, clubs, diamonds and hearts from the "standard" one).
    I'd be a bit reluctant to use those suits myself unless I wanted to use a tarot theme. The Swiss German suits (Roses, Bells, Acorns and Shields) would probably be my first pick if I wanted to use different suits, but even then I would still feel a bit like a copy-cat if I used a playing card theme so soon after somebody else used one. Worst-case scenario, I'll just put off my variant for a few more months and have more time to get a feel for the game.

  10. - Top - End - #370
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    You ran the last two Witchhunts. You deserve a chance to play one/something like it.

    @Jerry: I started writing a Tarot WW, where each player is one of the Major Arcana. So it was on my mind.
    Last edited by Penguinator; 2011-11-28 at 07:14 PM.


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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Well, personally I liked the four different orders of knights better anyways for 101Jir's game. I think that cards suit yours perfectly, Bourgeois.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BourgeoisJerry View Post
    I'd be a bit reluctant to use those suits myself unless I wanted to use a tarot theme. The Swiss German suits (Roses, Bells, Acorns and Shields) would probably be my first pick if I wanted to use different suits, but even then I would still feel a bit like a copy-cat if I used a playing card theme so soon after somebody else used one. Worst-case scenario, I'll just put off my variant for a few more months and have more time to get a feel for the game.
    Everyone has their own preference of suits, of course. The spanish one came to mind because it's one I use a lot (also, in some decks it has some pretty good drawings).

    Still, it might be good to keep these in mind, in case you want to change things for a second game.

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  13. - Top - End - #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by Penguinator View Post
    @Jerry: I started writing a Tarot WW, where each player is one of the Major Arcana. So it was on my mind.
    Note to self: make sure to join this game and 101's on principle.

    Anyway, my game includes kings, queens and knaves as power roles, so I think I'll stick with the classic french suits. I considered having a Joker in my game as well, but decided against it because its powers would be too similar to the knave's. On the other hand, 101 might be able to use a neutral role that always scries as villager on the side of whoever scried it in his game. But while having 21 players in a playing card themed game would be kind of cool, a neutral role might throw off balance a bit, especially if it had a goal other than survival.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Mage View Post
    Everyone has their own preference of suits, of course. The spanish one came to mind because it's one I use a lot (also, in some decks it has some pretty good drawings).

    Still, it might be good to keep these in mind, in case you want to change things for a second game.
    Yeah, those other suits would be great for sequels.
    Last edited by BourgeoisJerry; 2011-11-28 at 07:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by banjo1985 View Post
    Sorry, only just noticed this. Ther basic reason is that I don't enjoy having nothing to analyse. No information on dead players, no way of analysing votes without knowing the roles of the player that was voted for, and if you don't have a role you spend pretty much the whole game in the dark randomly voting, because there's nothing to go on. It turns into a game where everyone relies on the seer, because they're the only guy that knows what's going on. That's why I like the inclusion of the card 'suits', at least that gives a team the dead player is on, something to hang vote analysis on.

    Not saying these kind of games are bad, I just don't enjoy them personally and tend to steer clear of them. With limited time these days I have to pick and choose my WW games, and I don't often risk my quota on a game I most likely won't enjoy.
    This.
    With no information at all.... ever.... it literally boils down to luck as to who wins. If I wanted to play a game of luck I'd head to the boat and shoot some craps. At least that way I have the chance to actually win something.
    No information basically turns the game into rock-paper-scissors.
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    What do you mean by no info at all? The wolves give you info every time they night kill.

    Anyways, there are ways to put a little bit of info back in the game. On another forum that I play on there is a medic role that can publicly reveal a certain number of lynched player's alignment and/or role.

    This can even be a wolf role, though every instance I have seen of that particular role (wolf medic) has ended in a:

    Confirmed/known to be human, aka the decider
    Wolf, confirmed as medic
    Human who might be a wolf

    Decider chooses to lynch the other human.
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    Sorry about not getting back to everyone
    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Mage View Post
    I see one flaw that I don't think others have said: it's kind of easy to have a tie. In fact, unless one of the two last players is a sniper I think it's impossible for a team to win. And if both arethen its a tie because they both kill each other.

    @BourgeoisJerry/101: In case both of you want a card theme, you don't have to both use this one. There's also the spanish deck that has swords, clubs, golds and cups (respectively the spades, clubs, diamonds and hearts from the "standard" one).
    Ya, I could switch suits. WIth the below, I think I might just stick with the different orders of knights. Just so long as I can come up with an RP reason that they all have equal desire to wipe each other out.

    On the tie thing, though, I don't see what you mean, could you clarify why this would occur? I suppose if they figured each other out too fast, and somehow happened to be even at the time it happened, but I would think that the snipers would take care of that.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Grimmace View Post
    Well, personally I liked the four different orders of knights better anyways for 101Jir's game. I think that cards suit yours perfectly, Bourgeois.
    Always nice to hear an opinion. I will probably go with that then. Also, I am getting an RP idea (ya I know, kindof cheezy, but what do you think?):
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    Red knights: Honor, Klingon style
    Grey Knights: Survivalists, whatever it takes.
    Blue knights: Sentimentalists, act on emotion
    Green: Intellectuals, act on reason

    Red VS Grey: No honor. Grey sees Red as hostile
    Blue VS Red: Blue fears Red, and wants them eliminated. Red sees them as cowards
    Grey VS Blue: Grey does not trust blue, too unstable. Blue has had members killed by Grey, and swore revenge.
    Green VS Red: Vulcan and Klingon. Need I say more?
    Green VS Grey: Grey fears that they have a devious plot to take over the world, including them. Is this true? I haven't made up my mind.
    Green VS BLue: Vulcans and Betazoids, funny as heck, but classic issue.


    Quote Originally Posted by banjo1985 View Post
    Sorry, only just noticed this. Ther basic reason is that I don't enjoy having nothing to analyse. No information on dead players, no way of analysing votes without knowing the roles of the player that was voted for, and if you don't have a role you spend pretty much the whole game in the dark randomly voting, because there's nothing to go on. It turns into a game where everyone relies on the seer, because they're the only guy that knows what's going on. That's why I like the inclusion of the card 'suits', at least that gives a team the dead player is on, something to hang vote analysis on.

    Not saying these kind of games are bad, I just don't enjoy them personally and tend to steer clear of them. With limited time these days I have to pick and choose my WW games, and I don't often risk my quota on a game I most likely won't enjoy.
    Just making sure, none of this is directed at my game, is it? If so, how could I improve it? My main concern is that if I allow role reveals on death, the numbers become just too clear, then we have to worry about what Gray Mage said about ties. Then it would certainly be a constant tie. If you have other ideas though, let me know.
    Last edited by 101jir; 2011-11-28 at 09:47 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TBFProgrammer View Post
    What do you mean by no info at all? The wolves give you info every time they night kill.
    Which tells you "Dead Player was not a wolf", which means little. Unless the wolves can kill each other, in which case you don't learn that either.

    But I've only played a few of them, most of which were Witchhunt where the powers made up for it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TBFProgrammer View Post
    What do you mean by no info at all? The wolves give you info every time they night kill.

    Anyways, there are ways to put a little bit of info back in the game. On another forum that I play on there is a medic role that can publicly reveal a certain number of lynched player's alignment and/or role.

    This can even be a wolf role, though every instance I have seen of that particular role (wolf medic) has ended in a:

    Confirmed/known to be human, aka the decider
    Wolf, confirmed as medic
    Human who might be a wolf

    Decider chooses to lynch the other human.
    Quote Originally Posted by Internet Flea View Post
    Which tells you "Dead Player was not a wolf", which means little. Unless the wolves can kill each other, in which case you don't learn that either.

    But I've only played a few of them, most of which were Witchhunt where the powers made up for it.
    To clarify the situation, ya, wolves might kill because they are threatened, trying to throw everyone off, or influence the vote in some way. Problem is, it is guess work as to which tactic they are using, as it switches off so often. A really good player observes what tactics people assume, and then use it to their advantage, either that they will stick rigidly to that mindset, or that such a mindset is not as accepted. In the end, it adds up to guesswork. Sorry about my wordy way of putting things
    Last edited by 101jir; 2011-11-29 at 12:34 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 101jir View Post
    To clarify the situation, ya, wolves might kill because they are threatened, trying to throw everyone off, or influence the vote in some way. Problem is, it is guess work as to which tactic they are using, as it switches off so often.
    And that's assuming they aren't just rolling dice, which is more effective than usual without role reveals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tydude View Post
    I actually have two theories on why you're doing this, but neither make much sense and you would have to be insane to try them. It seems you are insane, which is great for my theories.
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Don't worry 101, it wasn't pointed at your game, I was responding to Flabort asking me why I don't really like 'funstrating' mystery games.

    What Shadow and Flea said really. The only solid info wolf kills give you is that the player they targetted is dead; that's it. The wolves should just kill randomly determined targets to make sure there is no opattern, and there is literally no way to pick them out but for pure luck. If the wolves in a game like that have any sense, then they won't try to save each other in the vote either, because the chances are they can stay hidden and not have to risk it.

    Roles that can reveal dead players roles are all well and good, but again its only really fun for whoever has that role, instead of follow the seer its follow the medic. For 'feel' and 'hunch' analysers like myself, these kind of games just hold no interest for me. By all means run it, plenty of people enjoy that kind of alternative, I just thought I;d explain why this variant doesn't do anything for me.
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    There are wolves who roll dice to decide their kills?


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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by 101jir View Post
    On the tie thing, though, I don't see what you mean, could you clarify why this would occur? I suppose if they figured each other out too fast, and somehow happened to be even at the time it happened, but I would think that the snipers would take care of that
    Quick reply: For some reason I had actually thought that the factions would be revealed upon death.
    Not revealing makes it much more unlikely, but I'd still think about what to do in case the game ends up with two factions with the same number of players and no snipers, if only to not have possible problems. Having the first to vote win is not exactly a rule I'd personally like. Having both teams win would be the simplest, I think. It'd also mean that if a single player is left in a faction then he'd still have a winning chance, even without being a sniper.

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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by Penguinator View Post
    There are wolves who roll dice to decide their kills?
    There are wolves who don't?
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  24. - Top - End - #384
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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by banjo1985 View Post
    Roles that can reveal dead players roles are all well and good, but again its only really fun for whoever has that role, instead of follow the seer its follow the medic. For 'feel' and 'hunch' analysers like myself, these kind of games just hold no interest for me. By all means run it, plenty of people enjoy that kind of alternative, I just thought I;d explain why this variant doesn't do anything for me.
    To clarify, the medic chooses who to use his power on. Everyone gets to see the result. It is included in the day opening narration.

    Anyways, I probably won't play that variation here. I get enough of that on another forum.
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  25. - Top - End - #385
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    So my six team game idea, where each player belongs to two teams:
    I've come up with names for the factions.
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    Faction A (who cannot get Dragons) are Lord of the Rings Fans. Dragons are extinct. Bilbo was involved in the slaying of the LAST ONE, any attempt to say otherwise is a lie.
    Faction B (Who cannot have psychic mediums) are Harry Potter Fans. Magic is Magic, Psychic powers are just something muggles are fooled into thinking exist.
    Faction C (Who cannot have Necromancers) are Sonic/Mario Fans. The two series are so often overlapped by fan writers, they may as well be one faction.
    Faction D (Who cannot have Sea Serpents) are Star Trek Fans. Kirk, Picard, or any other, very rarely do they ever see an ocean, or even a lake.
    Faction E (who cannot have assassins) are Pokemon Fans. Really, have you ever seen anyone actually try to hurt EACHOTHER in that?
    Faction F (Who cannot get Paladins) are Twilight fans. Depraved, soulless monsters, who cannot be forces for good. in any way.


    ...Yeah, somebody else may want to give me a few pointers to rearrange that. I tried for a collection that made sense, but... well, you know.
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  26. - Top - End - #386
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by flabort View Post
    Faction E (who cannot have assassins) are Pokemon Fans. Really, have you ever seen anyone actually try to hurt EACHOTHER in that?
    Oh really?

    My worry with that many teams is that very quickly every team will know what role everyone else is...which could be complicated.
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  27. - Top - End - #387
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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    You could add air to the Chinese elements to get:

    Earth
    Fire
    Water
    Wood
    Metal
    Air
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  28. - Top - End - #388
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Allright, excluding Jared.

    As to your concern, an example of what might happen:

    So you belong to Teams C and E (Sonic/Mario and Pokemon, the two video game factions). You know who all is on those teams. Somebody on Team C sets up a quickchat, and someone else reveals they belong to Sonic/Mario and Twilight (team F, one of your targets). Because you realize there may be people you're trying to kill within your team (due to you belonging to another team), you decide not to reveal your teams to your teams. Other people refuse to reveal their teams, too, and only a few people end up revealing their teams. These people are quickly eliminated by their enemies.

    As to powers (maybe that's what you meant by roles, actually more probable), revealing your role to your team would reveal your role to your enemies. If you kept your teams secret, that wouldn't be too much of a problem, but then your enemies might know you're their enemies anyways, because their in B and E (Harry Potter+Pokemon), so anyone not in both their factions is an enemy. So they share your role with their other team, which is an enemy to you, who then obliterates you. So, it's a good idea not to share your powers with your own teams, either.

    That concern, is quite legit. I don't think, personally, that it will be an issue, but yes. This will be... complicated. Very Funstrating.
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  29. - Top - End - #389
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    Shadow's Avatar

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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by TBFProgrammer View Post
    What do you mean by no info at all? The wolves give you info every time they night kill.
    In a game where roles are not revealed upon death, the night kills give you zero information. Wolves cannot generally kill their own, so anyone the wolves kill is not a wolf. We already knew that. So all a night kill does is remove a player from the game, while offering zero information to the village.

    There are two ways to gain information in such a game.
    1} The Baner successfully banes a target.
    2} The Seer finds a Proxy who then passes along information.
    That's it. So you're waiting to become part of the fabled network, or you may as well not be playing. There is absolutely no other way to play the game.
    Follow-the-Seer games bore me to death, but that's the only possible way to even have a *chance* to win a game like that. And once the Seer died, you'd never learn a single piece of information to help you out again?

    Q: Why would I join a game that I knew full well would bore me to death that had an extremely small chance of winning?
    A: I wouldn't.
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    LLama says: Of course, the game would also have been more balanced if you all would learn not to trust Shadow
    no matter what game he's in or role he has.
    Duos says: I've read the archives... and Shadow frankly scares the bejeesus outta me. It's like playing with a
    hypothetical cross of Lex Luthor and professor Moriarty.
    If he was made of SPIDERS.

  30. - Top - End - #390
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    Internet Flea's Avatar

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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by Penguinator View Post
    There are wolves who roll dice to decide their kills?
    What better way to tell town nothing?
    You found a secret! You got...
    Distracted!

    (I guess I should put something here.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tydude View Post
    I actually have two theories on why you're doing this, but neither make much sense and you would have to be insane to try them. It seems you are insane, which is great for my theories.
    Quote Originally Posted by ZarethG View Post
    I see your point, Internet Flea. However, I don't retract my assessment of your sanity.




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