Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

[Ramsus]

Hey, guys, if any of you need another game to join...well several of them have space right now. Witchhunt for example is starting soon and a number of us would appreciate a few more players in the game.

[Internet Flea]

I would have volunteered, since I didn't know anything at all, but everyone told me things as soon as I died, so...

I think you were ineligible anyway, since you still would have known your old role and alignment.

[Lady Serpentine]

I think you were ineligible anyway, since you still would have known your old role and alignment.

Maybe. But I'd told the thread that, gotten a confirmation from at least one source, and been believed, so it probably wouldn't have been a big deal.

[Penguinator]

Now, if Ramsus hadn't asked for a death chat to be made, he may have been eligible as a replacement.

[Saposhiente]

I need two replacements for Medieval. Still willing, Sapo?

Oh, this thing. I would have responded much faster if you'd sent me a PM, but sure.

[Gray Mage]

We're also in need for a replacement for Methos in the witchunt game. Come and join us, there'll be cake.

[Tom the Mime]

Would people be interested in a game with a fair few night kill and resurrection roles if a quarter of the players started off dead? There'd probably be some roles that get stronger while dead. Just wanted to see if there'd be any interest before trying to balance things.

[Ramsus]

Do the dead get to do anything aside from those few people who have stuff that makes them stronger while dead and those rezzed?

[Gnomish Wanderer]

I'm starting to design a balanced game that revolves around vote manipulation. Double votes, silencers, voiders, decider votes, things like that all in a single game of craziness. I'm trying to make it mathematically as balanced as possible and then let the players tear through it and see what happens. Any interest? Thoughts on construction? Has there been a game like this, and was it successful? Let me know any thoughts!

@Tom Personally I wouldn't enjoy getting a role PM that says 'Looks like you're dead!' unless I did have some reason for being dead other than to give the resurrection players targets to choose from.

[Ramsus]

I suggest remove the silencers. Overall silencing takes away more than it adds to a game. If you really have to have a version of it, either have "you can't vote today" or "you can't speak in the thread today except to declare vote targets" or such.

[Internet Flea]

Would people be interested in a game with a fair few night kill and resurrection roles if a quarter of the players started off dead? There'd probably be some roles that get stronger while dead. Just wanted to see if there'd be any interest before trying to balance things.

I think a lot of people got tired of Center WW because of all the resurrections, so I don't think any rez-heavy game would work just based on that.

@gnomish: If you could find a way to balance all of those, wouldn't it just become unbalanced again immediately after the first death?

[Tom the Mime]

@Ramsus - Yes, there'd probably be a night lynch and/or rez decided by ghost votes

@Gnomish - I'm planning to make sure the dead will have something to do, even if it is something minor too start with. Having people start off dead with nothing to do would be an amazingly bad move on my part. The check is more to see if people would object to starting dead even if there was a bit they could do.

For your game, sounds interesting. If you've got enough vote-voiders and manipulators, it might be worth a role whose power is being immune to those effects. Going for maximum craziness, 3+ separate factions would probably be good especially with roles that manipulate other peoples vote without their knowledge. Makes all sorts of backstabbing craziness possible.

[Vesth]

I suggest remove the silencers. Overall silencing takes away more than it adds to a game. If you really have to have a version of it, either have "you can't vote today" or "you can't speak in the thread today except to declare vote targets" or such.

Or maybe have something like 'you can only vote for so and so today', or 'you can only say a total of 25 words today, not including voting'...

[Gnomish Wanderer]

In terms of silencers I believe you guys are right, they just detract from the game in their undiluted form. However I have some ideas that encourage manipulative behaviors using some of the ideas you've given me about different forms of silencers.

@gnomish: If you could find a way to balance all of those, wouldn't it just become unbalanced again immediately after the first death?

Oh, my plan wasn't to balance the roles against eachother, but to make sure each role was balanced within the structure of the game. That way the wolves start off with worse odds but their chances improve with every miss against them, things like that, and the roles themselves don't have an incredible amount of consequence to the overall chance of winning without being unimportant altogether. It's a design challenge that may be too high a bar for me to reach, but at least trying will make the game better overall.

[Gray Mage]

@Gnomish: It could work, although game with that have a lot of vote changers or even one with great vote changing capacities are tricky to balance. Do you already have an idea of all the roles and their powers? Anyway, I'd be interested in helping out.

[Rules Lawyer #1]

Hello!
I am preparing to run City of Spires II.
After much considered thought, I have modified the rules set... Here is a preliminary of the changes... let me know what you think!

One of the key changes is the introduction of the Assassin's Guild. In the last City of Spires it seemed that the number of night kills was always potentially unbalanced. And yet... very few Assassins took advantage of their capability to do night kills because the kills were linked back to the noble they served. That will change because now the kills will be traced back to the anonymous Assassin's guild and it will not be known if the kill target was proposed by a noble or by a Master Ninja.

Another key change is an introduction of The Master Baner, people seemed to feel that the role of Bodyguard was unexciting. So one of the bodyguards will be able to protect someone besides the noble he is assigned to guard.

I also decided introduce the role of Double Agent. I'm sure yet how that will play out...

City of Spires II
Start of Play To Be Determined
Co-narrators: Open for volunteers

Each of the five spires towered a thousand feet above the City (solid pieces of an orange brown rock). They were built long ago by techniques lost to its current dwellers. Each spire expanded in a disk shape near its pinnacle and was equipped with observation decks and telescopes. It was here that the nobles gazed down upon the people of their realm and, perhaps more often, at each other. The noble families were an intricate mess even within each tower, but the claim to Lord Ruler of the Spires was the most hotly contested claim any of the nobles aspired to...

Rules:

Spoiler

Show

The Noble houses are feuding in the City of Spires (each noble lives in one of the five spires). There can be up to five factions (one for each Spire).
The Nobles:

Spoiler

Show

The nobles begin play with their role and faction exposed to all players. It takes a 50% vote to lynch a noble. Bounties cannot be collected on nobles. Every player is informed who the nobles are at the beginning of the game.
A noble wins if he is the only noble remaining and there are no ninja.

Roles of a Noble's Loyal Followers:

Spoiler

Show

Bodyguard: A bodyguard's noble cannot be assassinated as long as his bodyguard lives (the noble can still be lynched). Bounties cannot be collected on body guards. Each day the bodyguard may submit a name to the assassin's guild.
Spy: Each night, the spy may determine the loyalty (but not the role) of one player. The Loyal Followers of a noble read as Loyal Followers of that noble. Townsfolk read as Townsfolk. Ninja read as Ninja. Assassins read as Townsfolk. The Master Ninja reads as Ninja unless he adopts a disguise.
We are not using Helgraf's Interference rule.
And we are using the Evidence Doesn't Vanish Cause You're Dead rule.
Evidence Doesn't Vanish Cause You're Dead:

Spoiler

Show

Spies can spy targets post-mortem to determine the faction they had in life.

Special Loyal Followers:
Master Baner: In addition to protecting his noble each night, the Master Baner may protect one other person besides himself from assassination. Only one of the nobles will have the Master Baner.
Master Spy: In addition to learning the faction of a target, the Master Spy learns the role of his target. Only one of the Nobles will have the Master Spy.
Double Agent: In addition to learning the faction of a target, the Double Agent learns the role of his target. When a Double Agent's noble is assassinated, the Double Agent is promoted to the rank of Master Ninja. Only one of the Nobles will have a Double Agent. The Master Ninja begins the game with the knowledge of who the Double Agent is.

Assassin: Each night, the Assassin's Guild chooses one target from the names submitted to them. Tie vote is equivalent to no vote. Assassins do not know who the other assassins are. An Assassin wins if he survives until the end of the game.

Roles of the Townsfolk:

Spoiler

Show

Villager: A townsperson without a special role.
BountyHunter: Each day a noble may place a bounty on a single target. Each night the Bounty Hunter may choose to collect on one bounty. The Bounty Hunter wins if he survives to the end of the game and the all the ninja are caught.
Elf: A foreigner who cannot be assassinated.
City Seer: the City Seer is able to scry the role (but not the faction) of one player each night.

Roles of the Ninja:

Spoiler

Show

The Ninja Clan: When a Noble dies, his surviving Loyal Followers do not! They retain their roles, but also become ninja seeking revenge! The ninja win if there are no nobles left.
Master Ninja: A Master Ninja cannot be assassinated. He may disguise himself to appear to read as any loyalty (Loyal Follower of a living Noble, Townsfolk, or Ninja). He wins if there are no nobles left. If a Master Ninja does not declare loyalty during the day, then he may choose a Day kill target. If a Master Ninja is killed, he may pass his role to another ninja.

Declaring Loyalty:

Spoiler

Show

Any player may publicly declare loyalty to no more than one of the living nobles during the day by writing the noble's name in blue. This does not make the player a Loyal Follow of that noble because he may change his loyalty during the day by striking through his declaration of loyalty.
Players who forget to strike-through their previous declaration of loyalty will be considered as not having declared loyalty.
Townsfolk win when the noble that they have declared loyalty to wins. Loyal Followers and Ninja do not win this way, but they may still make declarations of loyalty.

Lynching:

Spoiler

Show

Lynch votes are declared in red and you must strike through to void a vote. It takes a 25% vote to lynch any player except a noble. It takes a 50% vote to lynch a noble. The role and faction of a lynched player are revealed. Days are 48 hrs, nights are 24 hrs.

Players will be auto-lynched after three consecutive game days of non-voting or after three consecutive days of not declaring loyalty. Their position will be open for substitution by another player for one game day.

Players who multi-vote (forget to strike-through their previous vote) will not have any of their multi-votes counted.

Multi-voters and those in danger of auto-lynch will be listed after each end of day narration.

Once any player attains a victory condition, the game is over.

It will take a minimum of 15 players to run this game (with three of the five nobles) and preferably closer to 20.

[Zjoot]

Yes! In times a million! City of Spires was the most glorious of games for me. I can't wait. Although it won't be the same without Tilt.

[Vesth]

I know that with all the new games (and game ideas) running about, it'll be a rather bad time to introduce another one.

But I've got to get this off my chest!

So, if you don't mind, here's an idea I've been toying with. I probably won't run it yet, not without co-narrators who are willing to slog. A lot.

Restart

Spoiler

Show

Tick tock. Tick tock.

The clock is still, but the hands move, a relentless march that never slows. Hands bat at elegant fingers, perhaps in desperation, perhaps in boredom. But it is nevertheless a futile act. No mortal can halt those hands. Even gods succumb to it's will.

Tick tock tic-

The sound is horrendously loud, attacking our ears and hearts. It encompasses all, reverberating through our souls. A constant tempo, going tick tick tick.

-tock....

Perhaps it's for the best. Inactivity would be our domain if it wasn't. But still, but still...

Tick.

Wasted chances, shriveled dreams. But what is there to do? What CAN we do?

Tock.

It is loud, agonizingly so. But we know better than to yearn for silence. But perhaps, that is our fate. Slaves to the three hands that govern our will.

Tick.

He clenches his gloved hands, even as he reads, and rereads the words he just inscribed.

"I will remove these chains that shackles all. With my allies, I will restart the clock. I know that my freedom will be at the cost of everyone else...but this I must do.", he says, looking back at the wall, adorned with numerous clocks of all sizes and shapes, all ticking at the same tempo. Tick tick tick.

"Tick tick tick. There is no other choice."

Game Mechanics

Spoiler

Show

Everyone begins with 'sleeper' powers. They cannot use these powers unless otherwise stated (except for the group nightkill by the wolves).

Whoever is nightkilled by the wolves, everyone is able to use the power of that dead person the following night the player died. Lynched players have a very small chance of coming back to life (this does not apply to wolves. Wolves stay dead.)

If no one dies that night, everyone can use their original "sleeper" powers.

If a wolf dies (regardless of how that happens), no one can use their powers the next night.

(eg. If a seer dies via nightkill, everyone may scry someone that night. They cannot use their own powers. If said seer dies to lynch, he has a small chance of coming back to life. Then, at night, if no one dies, everyone may use their original powers the next night.

But, in the next day, if they managed to lynch a wolf, at night, they cannot use any powers.)

[Internet Flea]

eg. If a seer dies via nightkill, everyone may scry someone that night.

And the game shatters.

(Maybe it'd work if nobody knew what their powers were, but if the Seer knows who he is he'll just volunteer for lynch day 1.)

[Vesth]

And the game shatters.

(Maybe it'd work if nobody knew what their powers were, but if the Seer knows who he is he'll just volunteer for lynch day 1.)

Would having fools work?

[Ur-Quan]

Maybe give the power to the wolves for the NK and to the village for the lynch?

[Matthias2207]

Maybe give the power to the wolves for the NK and to the village for the lynch?

That makes it even worse. It would make the seer desperate to be lynched by town, to prevent the wolves from getting it.
Maybe don't give everyone a scry. When the seer is killed, let the town vote who they want to have scried, the result is made public.
That would give an interesting twist to a game: When a power role is killed, the power is made public for the rest of the game, so town grows stronger with every kill. Makes for some nice backstabbing, because it's in everybody's benefit if a power role is killed. Nothing better than a large dose of paranoia.

[Saposhiente]

City of Spires stuff

Some of the mechanics are unfair. For one, every faction should have one "Master X" role or other sort of advantage; otherwise, the factions without these roles are at a disadvantage. Second, Double Agent and Elf are overpowered. They are strictly superior to Master Spy and Townsfolk respectively, with no disadvantage.

[Internet Flea]

Some of the mechanics are unfair. For one, every faction should have one "Master X" role or other sort of advantage; otherwise, the factions without these roles are at a disadvantage. Second, Double Agent and Elf are overpowered. They are strictly superior to Master Spy and Townsfolk respectively, with no disadvantage.

I don't think Double Agent is broken; the player is more powerful, but they don't make the faction any more powerful.

Elf would have to have some kind of difficult win condition though, considering nobody has any reason to want to lynch it. And yeah, every faction needs a special role I think. (Master Baner trumps both of them right now anyway.)

[Saposhiente]

It's not broken, merely unfair. It gives people advantages at the start of the game purely by chance, unrelated to skill. And elf, as it is written, has the same win condition as the Townsfolk.

[Lady Serpentine]

Well, Fae II is finally ready. I don't think there are any major balance issues, or things left over from earlier drafts that shouldn't be there, but let me know if you find anything, obviously:

Rules:

Spoiler

Show

Days will last for 48 RL hours, nights for 24 (or until all players with night actions, team votes, etc., have sent them in/voted, if that happens first). A bit shorter than the times used in most variants, but I've found that it tends to keep the game from bogging down.

All roles are power roles; everyone will, at the very least, have some sort of passive ability. Unless more people join than there are roles, that is.

If two or more people scry the same person in the same phase, they all get (different) randomly determined results.

All players, save Wolves and the Midday Moon/Midnight Sun begin blind.

If you don't post, or at least use your night actions, for three days without letting me know beforehand, or having quite a good reason afterward, you'll be removed from the game.

Items can be transferred to any player not restricted from accepting them, and will arrive in the phase after they are sent.

The game, unlike most, will begin at night in order to allow at least a bit of information gathering before people start deciding who to lynch.

All Wolf teams get a team vote for a night kill. (I know this is normally assumed, but I figured that I should specify it, since there are plenty of NKing roles, and it wasn't the case in the last one).

The role (but not identity) of the person who killed someone is shown in the summary of that night's narration, unless one of the people with a kill/kill vote specifically requests that it not be. For example 'Lex-Kat was killed by the Mage. She was the Guardian, a Usurper baner.'.

Players may make requests about how their powers are shown in the narrations, but those requests will not always be used (usually if they would throw undue suspicion on another player, though subtle trickery is encouraged).

Clues as to the identity of killers, baners, etc., will be provided in the narrations, regardless of if any are requested; thus, careful reading is useful.

Deceased players will become ghosts, and may vote in green to block votes, whether for lynches or team kills; a ghost voting for another ghost renders the voiding void. Ghosts may still post in QTs, send PMs, and talk in-thread.

Roles:

Spoiler

Show

The Werekin (First Wolves):

Win Condition:

Spoiler

Show

Reduce the numbers of Usurpers to match the number of Werekin and Turned. Kill or enslave all Turned.

Roles:

Spoiler

Show

The Familiar: Before the game begins, you may pick which players are on your team, and their roles. After the game starts, you may choose once a night between killing, scrying, or turning one person.

The Deft: Once a day/night, you may choose to set a trap on one person, which will void the next person to use a power on them, and reveal the effect of one of the powers of the person voided, or for someone, which has the same effect, but voids the person it was used on when next they use a power.

The Vengeful (Beast): If you die by lynching, you kill two people who voted for you. If you die from a night kill, you either kill two people who voted for you, or the person who targeted you and one random player, depending on whether it was from a team vote or a power.

The Diviner: Skilled at reading the future in entrails, each night that the Familiar kills someone, you learn the target of a power in the next phase that one is used.

The Turned (Second Wolves):

Win Condition:

Spoiler

Show

Reduce the numbers of Usurpers to match the number of Werekin and Turned. Kill or enslave all Werekin.

Roles:

Spoiler

Show

(Further roles will be made as necessary.)

Duilliath, Keeper of Dun Gol: The first time the Keeper of the March is turned, they gain power over the dead and dying; once every three phases they may convert a ghost to their team.

Every other phase, they may make all ghost votes count for purposes of the lynch/give them a team-kill, or prevent one of the players who would die that phase from doing so (for which purpose they will receive a list of those who, after the effects of all powers have been determined, will die without intervention).

The Virulent: The first Usurper to be turned, you were made in such a way that you can spread your curse; each night, you may bite one player, adding them to the Turned, with all effects attendant upon such a conversion.

The Mirror: If the Guardian is turned, they gain the following powers: Once every other day they may choose to redirect a lynch onto the first person to vote for someone, or once every other night they can choose to redirect any night actions other than scries and banes against one player back onto the person who performed them (For team votes, this works the same way as it would with any other vote; the first person to vote for someone becomes the target).

The Thief: If the Deft is turned, they may attempt to remove a collar from one player each day, and choose to steal one player's powers during the night phase.

The Usurpers (First Town):

Win Condition:

Spoiler

Show

Kill or enslave all Werekin or Turned.

Roles:

Spoiler

Show

The Forger: Once a night you can choose to create an iron sword, which grants the wielder a night kill, a suit of armor, which protects against any night kills, or an iron collar, which allows the owner to attempt to enslave a player once per night until successful.

Slayer(s): You start with an iron sword, which allows you to kill one player each night.

Tracker (Seer): Once each night, you may choose to scry one player.

Guardian (Baner): You may choose to protect one player each day/night from night kill or lynch.

The Keeper of the March (Killer/Day-baner: Once a night you may choose to kill one player, or protect them from lynching the next day by keeping them in your home. However, any player so protected is forbidden from voting the next day, or the protection is rendered void.

Enchanter (Vortexer): Once a day or night you can choose one person and redirect their vote or action to the target of your choice. This includes night kills. However, you cannot use this again until the next phase has passed. So, for example, if you choose to redirect a vote, you couldn't use your ability again until the next night passed.

Unaffiliated (Either):

Spoiler

Show

The Midday Moon/Midnight Sun: So long as your counterpart is alive, you cannot be killed save by lynching, though you will gain any additional abilities you might have from doing so, including team votes. However, if your counterpart dies, so do you. If your counterpart is on another team, neither of you need to die, be enslaved, or be turned, for purposes of either team's win condition. You and your counterpart start knowing each other.

[Tom the Mime]

Seems like it'd be interesting but I'd be a bit cautious with the combination of so many night kills and the converter (virulent). Even in a blind game where you can kill your own if you're not careful, the virulent seems to encourage the NKers to start early, before they have much info because if they wait too long, the turned could establish too significant a foothold. Might make it very quick.

[Ramsus]

I'm very happy you included the Enchanter on the new town team to reflect the results of the first game

[Elemental]

Sadly, I died in the first game as soon as I tried to kill someone... But still, I would have died anyway. At least I got the person I was after.

[The Grue]

stuff

Want. Want want want.

Where do I sign up?