Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

[Istari]

Just as a notice to the couple WW games I'm in. I have only infrequent access to the internet for the next week so don't expect any high levels of activity.

[Rules Lawyer #1]

As I get ready to start recruitment for the City of Spires II, I noticed that the first page schedule of this thread is... dated... When is the next available date for me to start a game? I'd like to start in a couple of weeks if possible.

Also, if anyone wants to help co-narrate let me know.

Yes! In times a million! City of Spires was the most glorious of games for me. I can't wait. Although it won't be the same without Tilt.

I agree, Tilt really was an exceptional player.
He was extraordinarily on top of everything that happened. People can probably learn a lot from the example he set. He was awesome.

Want. Want want want.

Where do I sign up?

I've submitted the thread for approval so hopefully it will be approved soon and we can start recruiting

Some of the mechanics are unfair. For one, every faction should have one "Master X" role or other sort of advantage; otherwise, the factions without these roles are at a disadvantage. Second, Double Agent and Elf are overpowered. They are strictly superior to Master Spy and Townsfolk respectively, with no disadvantage.

I don't think Double Agent is broken; the player is more powerful, but they don't make the faction any more powerful.

Elf would have to have some kind of difficult win condition though, considering nobody has any reason to want to lynch it. And yeah, every faction needs a special role I think. (Master Baner trumps both of them right now anyway.)

Yes, I agree, each noble will have either a Master Baner or a Master Spy...

I am not sure what to do about the imbalance of some roles being more powerful than other roles... other than to just allow it as roles are never equal anyways...

My reason for thinking of adding the Double Agent is to mix things up even more than they are ;-) The ninja of the last game arguably had the odds stacked against them due to the unity of the nobles against them.

The reasoning I have behind the elf is that the Master Ninja is sort of exposed if an assassination attempt fails against him... I'm hoping having this role in the game will help keep things interesting should that happen early on. I'm not sure how I would make the win condition for the elf any harder... considering that he will likely be under suspicion by other townsfolk if his invulnerability to assassination comes to their attention.

Really the elf imbalance is not significant compared to other werewolf games where a there is a baner who banes himself the whole game and thus survives...

HaHa! Well, I'm looking forward to anything that comes to the City of Spires!
See you all in that thread soon, I hope

[Saposhiente]

I am not sure what to do about the imbalance of some roles being more powerful than other roles... other than to just allow it as roles are never equal anyways...

The reasoning I have behind the elf is that the Master Ninja is sort of exposed if an assassination attempt fails against him... I'm hoping having this role in the game will help keep things interesting should that happen early on. I'm not sure how I would make the win condition for the elf any harder... considering that he will likely be under suspicion by other townsfolk if his invulnerability to assassination comes to their attention.

Really the elf imbalance is not significant compared to other werewolf games where a there is a baner who banes himself the whole game and thus survives...

The problem isn't role equality; it's faction equality. Yes the baner can force himself to survive, but his goal in the game isn't to survive. Town is all-neutral: Each townie has a different win condition: Survival of theirselves, indifferent to the others. Each one is an individual faction. But the faction of the Elf has the unfair advantage of being immune to assassination. If they were all part of the same faction it would be fair, but here they are all separate. Elf can exist; he just needs something to be harder for him. Perhaps you can make it so that the Double Agent must lynch the Elf to win. Something like that. Suddenly, both are at a disadvantage.

[Internet Flea]

Agree with Sapo, and adding that a Baner that constantly banes himself sacrifices the opportunity to bane anyone else, whereas the Elf in this game sacrifices nothing for the same effect.

[Rules Lawyer #1]

The problem isn't role equality; it's faction equality. Yes the baner can force himself to survive, but his goal in the game isn't to survive. Town is all-neutral: Each townie has a different win condition: Survival of theirselves, indifferent to the others. Each one is an individual faction. But the faction of the Elf has the unfair advantage of being immune to assassination. If they were all part of the same faction it would be fair, but here they are all separate. Elf can exist; he just needs something to be harder for him. Perhaps you can make it so that the Double Agent must lynch the Elf to win. Something like that. Suddenly, both are at a disadvantage.

Hmmm, I like that; that's good: Elf vs. Double Agent. I think I'll include that! Thanks Saposhiente!

[Vhaidara]

reposting this because it was last post on a page and I'm interested in feedback.

I just had an idea for a cult based WW. Not where the wolves are the cultists: everyone is a cultist. The "good" cultists are attempting to rid themselves of the "evil" cultists who have strayed from the true path.

Instead of a lynch, each day someone is sacrificed. The difference is that a sacrifice has their power used, and magnified. The best example I have right now is that if the baner is sacrificed, that person can choose 3 people to bane for the following night.

It needs some work (deciding what each role would do when sacrificed, and which roles to use), but I think it could be interesting.

[Ramsus]

Hah, I actually had a similar idea myself recently. I think it sounds like it'd be a fun game.

[Vhaidara]

I actually thought of a slightly more twisted variant.

This is a blind wolf version. It would never work otherwise.

The goal is to be the first side to be completely sacrificed. All roles work the same, but this means you have flipped targets. And wolves can be killed by the wolf NKer. Which would be a good thing in this win condition.

[Matthias2207]

So you need to kill off your own team? You win only if you're dead? So Baners would need to protect players on the other team? What if you're the last of your team, could you commit suicide or would you need to convince the other team to kill you?

[Vhaidara]

Exactly. I am considering including a Witchhunt style option for after death voting, though. I'm thinking give the dead players a QT and each night/day they vote on someone's power to use (50% vote required for a power to be used, 90% gives them the enhanced power of a sacrifice [ie, tri baner])

How would you know you were the last member of your team? It would be a Medieval style blind game.

[Julian84]

Howdy, got a small question from the peanut gallery: Are we anticipating werewolves XV soon? Seems like it's been a while since the last one, wanted to know if it was coming up soon or if we're waiting for something/someone.

Thanks!

[Saposhiente]

The goal is to be the first side to be completely sacrificed. All roles work the same, but this means you have flipped targets. And wolves can be killed by the wolf NKer. Which would be a good thing in this win condition.

The ultimate problem with this is that everyone wants theirselves dead. The lynch would be a campaign of people trying to get theirselves lynched, and the voters would be the people who would rather lose than die. The best play for wolves would be to not NK for since the NK never targets the person selecting it, it would on average kill a disproportionate amount of villagers. By not NKing, suddenly the wolves are on even footing, but then if they have less members than the villagers they have a large advantage. So the factions would have to be equal in size. But then suddenly, the lynch is irrelevant. Half of the people don't actually want to lynch townies; wolves would have near-control over the lynch if they were connected. But since they aren't connected, they just vote for theirselves and completely at random. The wolves are indistinguishable from the villagers and no logic happens during the Day. etc...

[Internet Flea]

Maybe Town could have multiple kills and the (connected) wolves could have a resurrection power instead.

[Zjoot]

I told the people who made this site that I would plug it here. Basically it's a brand new werewolf forum.

[Matthias2207]

Why would you need a brand new werewolf forum if we have an active community here?

[Gray Mage]

I actually thought of a slightly more twisted variant.

This is a blind wolf version. It would never work otherwise.

The goal is to be the first side to be completely sacrificed. All roles work the same, but this means you have flipped targets. And wolves can be killed by the wolf NKer. Which would be a good thing in this win condition.

The fact that there could be no auto-lynches could make it a bit tricky, IMO. And possibly boring/turn into a stalemate end game.

Edit: Although you could turn the AL into an auto-bane or extra life or something. It would incentivate people to post, at least.

[Ur-Quan]

Final stretch of recruitment, spots open until 1.7. The game starts on 5.7.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...8#post13372778

[Rules Lawyer #1]

Hello all!

I'm going to put the start date for City of Spires II at July 7 if that is okay with everyone...
See you all in thread!
:-)

[Vhaidara]

Gray Mage, I like your thinking. Although I'd like to believe people would post because they signed up for the game, not because I threaten them with extra lives.

Which, by the way, when taken out of context, has got to be the least scary threat I've ever made.

[Penguinator]

My entire county has been without power since Friday night due to a lovely little storm. I'll be shutting the computer off in a moment so I don't blow a switch. Just thought you should know why I'm not posting.

[ThePhantom]

Alan Wake Werewolf game has now started. Have fun people.

[Ramsus]

Sapo, what the heck man? You can't autolynch people because their entire country loses power and they still manage to give you warning about their inability to post. If you wanted to throw him up on the list of targets that'd be another thing but, what you did was totally uncool.

[Ur-Quan]

'tis not cool, but 'tis his game and the rules have been stated out-front, there is nothing unfair or incorrect about his decision. You and I might want to come out for people and bend rules for them, but you can't and shouldn't demand others to act like you do.

[Saposhiente]

As I said, he should have PMed me his target in advance. He was capable of doing that. Heck, he could have even just ended Day at that point.

[Ramsus]

Ur-Quan, I think you misunderstand my point. How is what Sapo did any different that say if while Alarra, Lex, and other people were gone they'd been autolynched even though they gave warning. Or when anyone else says they can't post. As far as I know it's not an official rule here to not autolynch people when they're away but, it's really rude.

Sapo, considering that the only thing he said anywhere was that his country didn't have power, I don't think he had time to read the thread and make a decision, unless you're saying he should have made that decision blindly. It sounded very much like all he could manage to do was get online for a few minutes.

[Ur-Quan]

Ur-Quan, I think you misunderstand my point. How is what Sapo did any different that say if while Alarra, Lex, and other people were gone they'd been autolynched even though they gave warning.

The rules clearly differ from those two cases, at least in his game. If Alarra, Lex or any other person were put in a suit, I'm pretty sure Sapo would've killed them too. That is not rude, that is just strict.

[Saposhiente]

It was an unfortunate circumstance. Had he not been in a suit, he would have gotten protection from red, but here the game must go on.

[Ramsus]

I don't see how the game would not "go on" if you hadn't killed him. Also, I mean c'mon, you already have an autolynch mechanic in the game, there was no reason to be that punishing for him happening to have life happen to him. How would you feel if someone did that to you?

[Internet Flea]

I'll be offline until the fifth.

[Lex-Kat]

I have to agree with Ramsus here. It's not "bending" the rules. It's considerate. This isn't a live game, Real Life happens.

But Ur-Quan, you are right about one thing. It is his game. He can do what he likes. And knowing that Pengiunator has lost power, most people would be considerate and not penalize one of their players for something they have no control over.

But whatever. I don't have to deal with it. Not my game.