Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

[Lex-Kat]

Convoy VII: Interstating the Obvious had a rule where a new player could join the Convoy every 4th day and pick their side of Trucker (villager) or Bear (wolf). It was only used twice and I don't remember which side each player picked, but I do know that the logical discussion it brought out was interesting.

I know what role the last player picked, for she was me. I chose Bear. I later found out there was only two of us left.

Well, if you could think of a way to make it work, maybe you could just have a game which starts as soon as you post it, with no players, and then they all sign up as the game is running.
No idea how it'd work of course...

Every 4 days is too long between recruits if you want to make it a part of the game. Maybe every 3 nights, or every 2 nights if there aren't a lot of players.

I'd recommend making the role they receive random.

Maybe set the initial sign-up cap at 10 or 15. So that there will be people available to join in later.

Have an idea 'bout that. Could be good/bad/okay. Heres how it works.

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Have X number of roles, predetermined in random order (i.e. balanced but random). First however many needed to start = "Original Townsfolk" and have balance there. When Original Townsfolk are taken, game starts.

As players sign up, become "Clueless Newcomers". They're out of their first day and night phase and have no powers. On next phase, gain predetermined role and start participating.

Lynches and NKs aren't required, so days/nights could pass with nothing. And let's keep days at 48 hours, nights at 24?

As players die, their roles die, but they can choose new players after 2 days/nights pass. So, X dies, waits 2 days, and re-enters as Y, Clueless Newcomer on first day.

Game ends when either all Wolves are dead, or Town remaining (including Newcomers) = Wolves remaining (including Newcomers). Could end up at some points with only Town or only Wolves until someone joins/revives, but unlikely.

Not sure if I could run b/c I have no ide aabout balance for WW games, but I could try.

Example:

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Original Townsfolk: Players 1-15
Clueless Newcomers: Players 16-40 (or something)

Players starts signing up as spots 1-15, which are randomized and balanced. Initial Wolves know each other; Newcomer wolves don't, though some are mason wolves so do. Likewise, there are masons for villagers, both initial and newcomer.

After first 15 spots, next people take Newcomer spots (anywhere from 16-40, predetermined roles). Dead people can revive as these spots as well, so could have many roles if you want. So don't need 40 people; probably only 15-20 if need be.

So I take spot 12, which is a Seer. First day goes with lynch and second I scry but am killed. After startup but before Day 1, cd4 joins as spot 23, which is a wolf (non-mason) and enters as a Clueless Newcomer. Can't participate in votes Day/Night 2 and doesn't know role. Finds out role on Day 3 and votes for lynch/wolf kill. I revive as spot 30 on day 4 which is a villager. Day 4 comes and goes without my help, and I learn of identity for Day 5.

Alternatively, Clueless Newcomers can participate in lynch votes.

As for waht roles there are, it's up to narrator, but pretty much any role would work. Seers, masons, disguisers, baners (day as well?) are a must, and NK roles or some special roles can work as well. Other game mechanics could be added if wanted.

Just an idea; take it or leave it. Could probably be modified a lot...

Sounds interesting. If Sir Dingdong don't mind, I wouldn't mind trying this mechanic for one of my games.... say the next Convoy. If you'd like, you could co-narrate.

Hello, I'd like to announce that My Little Pony 2, the werewolf game, will begin recruitment August 13^th and begin playing the week of August 27^th.

No further details will be announced here. Thank you.

Wooooo hooooo!

Indeed. I was beginning to wonder if anyone noticed or cared.

[Ramsus]

I'm pretty sure you knew I cared Lex, considering I asked you about it a week or two ago.

[Lex-Kat]

Shhh. I'm digging for compliments here.

[Alarra]

Indeed. I was beginning to wonder if anyone noticed or cared.

I noticed. And cared. I just never post.

[Count Dingdong]

Sounds interesting. If Sir Dingdong don't mind, I wouldn't mind trying this mechanic for one of my games.... say the next Convoy. If you'd like, you could co-narrate.

Go ahead. Or for another game? Interested in co-narrating, as it would be a first. But not sure how well I'd narrate Convoy. From what I've read and knowing me at least. Could work though.

I have a few ideas for special roles. If I think up enough cool ones, may start my own game or something. One thing is, each character would have a specific win condition, which can be fulfilled before dying. Can talk separately with you about this if you'd like?

[Zjoot]

I threw a party, Lex. A party of one, but still.

[Penguinator]

I still don't have internet at home, haha...

It really sucks.

[Rules Lawyer #1]

City of Spires II has ended.

[Lady Serpentine]

Fae Werewolf II: Fae-ailed Plans is now recruiting. It should begin around the time I get enough players.

USB 6 has, unfortunately, been aborted. The delays (which, I admit, were partly my fault) have led to us not having enough active players to get a lynch.

[Rules Lawyer #1]

@Count Dingdong, I am curious about how such a mechanic might work in the Zombie Wars game I'm planning since there are many potential roles in it...

I've updated the game, but I'm still a little bit worried that the undead will consistently beat the town... they have a lot of powers. Any ideas?

Zombie Wars:

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Things are about to get crazy…. Vampires, Zombies, Liches… it's a regular armageddon and every power-craving lich for himself!
The basic theme is that there is this eternal war between the undead and the living.
The Undead will be trying to slay all the Living
The Living will be trying to … live.
The longer you maintain a role in the game, the more powerful your role becomes.
Game play concludes when there is only the living or only the undead (not counting ghosts or players destroyed).

The Living:

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Villager: Ordinary in every respect. Villagers may vote each day to stake and burn one player. Any villager who survives for three days may choose to become a Rogue, an Apprentice, or an Accolyte.

Woodcutter: a living player and current owner of the axe. if attacked by zombies, those zombies that voted for the attack are slain and the woodcutter survives. Each day he selects a kill target for his axe. Only the living and zombies can be slain with the axe. A woodcutter who both remains alive and in possession of the axe for three days becomes a Heroic Slayer. If his axe is stolen, he loses the Woodcutter abilities. If a Woodcutter is slain, his slayer gains possession of the axe.

Heroic Slayer: In addition to the abilities of the Woodcutter, the Heroic Slayer's axe attack now kills Vampires and destroys unprotected Liches. If his axe is stolen he loses both the Heroic Slayer and Woodcutter abilities.

Thrall: still technically counted among the living, although on his way to becoming undead. He may not reveal the vampire who is turning him and as long as he lives the vampire he is enthralled to cannot be staked and burned by vote of the villagers. After three days of being a thrall, a thrall becomes a vampire.

Vampire Hunter: Each night a Vampire Hunter may target a player and determine whether he is living or undead. The Vampire Hunter also learns if the target is a Thrall, Ghoul, Ghast, Vampire, or Master Vampire.

Accolyte: immune to zombie attacks. If he survives for three days, he becomes a Cleric.

Cleric: Immune to zombie attacks, ghoul attacks, and vampire attacks. A vampire who targets a cleric has its identity revealed to the cleric. Each night, a cleric may raise one of the slain from the dead. That player, should he accept, becomes an ordinary villager. (The Cleric must reveal his identity to the player to use this ability.) A cleric is able to destroy a Lich's Phylactery. After three days, a cleric becomes a High-Cleric..

High-Cleric: In addition to the abilities of a cleric, a High-Cleric is immune to Ghast attacks, Master Vampire attacks, Wraith attacks and Lich attacks. Moreover, any attack from an undead creature the High-cleric is immune to slays the undead creature (exception Lich). A High-Cleric can raise an additional player from the dead each day.

Rogue: each night a rogue steals the possessions of one target. If he steals the axe, he gains the abilities of the Woodcutter in addition to being a Rogue. If he steals the Phylactery, he knows it; this is referred to as 'finding the phylactery'. He may give the Phylactery to another player. After three days, a rogue becomes a Master Rogue.

Master Rogue: In addition to the abilities of the Rogue, the Master Rogue gains the ability to learn the current role of his selected night target.

Apprentice: the apprentice gains the ability to redirect information that would be revealed about him. Each day, the apprentice may select or change his target. The apprentice appears to be as that target appears to be whenever information is revealed. After three days an Apprentice becomes a Mage.

Mage: In addition to the abilities of an Apprentice, a Mage gains a night kill attack. A mage is able to destroy a Lich's Phylactery. After nine days, a Mage may become an Arch-Mage. After slaying three targets, a Mage may become a Lich. When becoming a Lich, a Mage loses his night kill attack but the gains the night attack of the Lich. A Mage that qualifies for both may become an Arch-Lich.

Arch-Mage: In addition to the abilities of a Mage, an Arch-Mage may locate a Lich's Phylactery each day. To do so, he targets the player whose Phylactery he wishes to locate. Locating the Phylactery does not enable him to destroy the Phylactery until he gains possession of it...

The Undead:

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Zombie: Each night the Zombies vote to assault and devour one player.

Ghoul: Each night a ghoul may attack a target. If the target is living, the target becomes paralyzed and unable to take actions for the duration of the next day. If the target in undead, he learns the type and this information is automatically given to the vampire that created him. After three nights, a ghoul becomes a ghast.

Ghast: In addition to the abilities of a ghoul, a ghast delays the ability of a living target to upgrade his role by one day.

Vampire: Each night a vampire may target one player. If the target is living, he becomes a Thrall under the control of the vampire. If the target is undead, the vampire learns the type of undead creature. If the undead creature is a zombie, the vampire may choose to transform it into a ghoul during the next day cycle. A vampire who successfully turns a Thrall into a vampire becomes a Master Vampire.

Master Vampire: whenever a player becomes a master vampire, a random living Villager becomes a Vampire Hunter (if a Villager is available).

Lich: When becoming a Lich, the Lich must choose a player to carry his phylactery. The player selected need not know that he carries the phylactery. A Lich cannot be destroyed as long as his phylactery is intact. Each night, the Lich may target one player. If the target is living, he becomes a Zombie. If the target is undead, he learns the type of undead. After nine days a Lich becomes a Demi-Lich.

Demi-Lich: In addition to the abilities of a Lich, a Demi-Lich cannot be destroyed except by the consecutive vote of the Woodcutter's axe attack and a Cleric's raise ability; or by the combined vote of the Woodcutter's axe attack and the Mage's night attack; or by the night attack of an Arch-Mage.

Arch-Lich: In addition to the abilities of a Lich and an Apprentice, if an Arch-Lich's night target is a ghost, the ghost becomes a Wraith.

Wraith: a wraith has a night attack. A living target slain by a wraith's night attack becomes a wraith!

The Slain:

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Ghosts: dead people lose al the roles and abilities they had in life and become ghosts, each night ghosts may vote to protect one player from all attacks for the duration of the current night and the next day.

The Destroyed:

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Liches that are slain are destroyed and removed from the game. They do not have souls to return as ghosts!

The Game ends when there with only undead surviving (not counting ghosts) or only the living surviving (not counting ghosts). The player with the highest score achieved in game wins. Scores are not revealed until the game ends.

@Internet Flea: I'm still brainstorming what kind of power to give the Master Vampire... Wraith creation seemed like a power for the Liches. I'm thinking about giving him some kind of mind control power to affect the actions of others.

[Gnomish Wanderer]

I'm looking to start recruitment for a Classic Werewolf in the next few days. 1 Seer, 3 Werewolves, 8 Vanilla Town. Any interest?

[Zjoot]

Woohoo!

[Gray Mage]

I'm looking to start recruitment for a Classic Werewolf in the next few days. 1 Seer, 3 Werewolves, 8 Vanilla Town. Any interest?

You might want to leave the number of players open ended, Classic WW usually has a lot of players. I think all of the Classic WW I've seen had 30+ players. So yeah, probably a lot of interest.

[Gnomish Wanderer]

The main problem with keeping it open is the Seer. I can figure out a good number of werewolves/town to keep it classic, but I don't know if/when to add extra seers.I guess I could try to figure the game out as a base of something, like if I get three times the players I use three times the roles, but I don't know the starting point for seers to players.

[Gray Mage]

The main problem with keeping it open is the Seer. I can figure out a good number of werewolves/town to keep it classic, but I don't know if/when to add extra seers.I guess I could try to figure the game out as a base of something, like if I get three times the players I use three times the roles, but I don't know the starting point for seers to players.

I think it's always 1 seer, 1 devil (starting blind), 1 fool and 1 baner, with masons, villagers and wolves not being fixed in number (at least this was the ones I've seen).

[Alarra]

I'm looking to start recruitment for a Classic Werewolf in the next few days. 1 Seer, 3 Werewolves, 8 Vanilla Town. Any interest?

You could run a classic style game with that limited a player base, but you probably should call it something other than 'classic werewolf', as that series of games expects to pull a player base of 30+

[Lex-Kat]

I personally always go for:

1. 1 Seer
2. 1 Baner
3. 1 Devil
4. 1 Wolf/5 players (minus 1 for the Devil)
5. 1 Mason/5 players (minus 2 for the Seer and Baner)
6. The rest are villagers

I think most games have the Devil start off blind. And of course the Baner and Seer are blind as well.

[Gnomish Wanderer]

I personally always go for:

1. 1 Seer
2. 1 Baner
3. 1 Devil
4. 1 Wolf/5 players (minus 1 for the Devil)
5. 1 Mason/5 players (minus 2 for the Seer and Baner)
6. The rest are villagers

I think most games have the Devil start off blind. And of course the Baner and Seer are blind as well.

That's 'classic' around these parts? o.O I was thinking classic just meant wolves/seer/town. Guess I stand corrected. :P

In that case, thanks for the numbers. I'll probably start a classic game soon using those numbers and roles. Most likely aiming for starting recruitment on Tuesday, July 31st, with open recruitment ending on Monday, August 6th. How does that sound?

[Alarra]

I personally always go for:

1. 1 Seer
2. 1 Baner
3. 1 Devil
4. 1 Wolf/5 players (minus 1 for the Devil)
5. 1 Mason/5 players (minus 2 for the Seer and Baner)
6. The rest are villagers

I think most games have the Devil start off blind. And of course the Baner and Seer are blind as well.

This is the layout of roles that I have used when running Classics as well. I think it's become relatively standard.

[Count Dingdong]

@Count Dingdong, I am curious about how such a mechanic might work in the Zombie Wars game I'm planning since there are many potential roles in it...

Would probably work pretty well. Would make the game go on longer, which seems a plus for it, considering how long is needed for roles (18 days for demi-lich = most I saw). Will work with you in applying it if you need help!

@Internet Flea: I'm still brainstorming what kind of power to give the Master Vampire... Wraith creation seemed like a power for the Liches. I'm thinking about giving him some kind of mind control power to affect the actions of others.

Give power over entrhalled's day votes. Also, Thralls should have restriction over revealing that they're enthralled. Vamps should be limited to one thrall at a time.

[Rules Lawyer #1]

Would probably work pretty well. Would make the game go on longer, which seems a plus for it, considering how long is needed for roles (18 days for demi-lich = most I saw). Will work with you in applying it if you need help!

I was thinking of starting with
Initial Play:

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? Villagers
1 Woodcutter
1 Cleric
1 Rogue
1 Mage

? Zombies
2 Vampires
1 Lich

and yes, the Arch-lich targets ghosts to become wraiths and wraiths create more wraiths... exponentially... is that over the top?

Give power over entrhalled's day votes. Also, Thralls should have restriction over revealing that they're enthralled. Vamps should be limited to one thrall at a time.

I think I've decided on the following:
Master Vampire:

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whenever a player becomes a Master Vampire, a random living Villager becomes a Vampire Hunter (if a Villager is available, otherwise no Vampire Hunter). In addition to the abilities of a Vampire, a Master Vampire's night attack invades his target's living mind (if the target has one that is). This not only reveals the targets current role and powers, but allows the Vampire to dictate how his target will use those powers for the next day/night cycle.

[TBFProgrammer]

Thrall: still technically counted among the living, although on his way to becoming undead. He may not reveal the vampire who is turning him and as long as he lives the vampire he is enthralled to cannot be staked and burned by vote of the villagers. After three days of being a thrall, a thrall becomes a vampire.

Vampire: Each night a vampire may target one player. If the target is living, he becomes a Thrall under the control of the vampire. If the target is undead, the vampire learns the type of undead creature. If the undead creature is a zombie, the vampire may choose to transform it into a ghoul during the next day cycle. A vampire who successfully turns a Thrall into a vampire becomes a Master Vampire.

Master Vampire: whenever a player becomes a Master Vampire, a random living Villager becomes a Vampire Hunter (if a Villager is available, otherwise no Vampire Hunter). In addition to the abilities of a Vampire, a Master Vampire's night attack invades his target's living mind (if the target has one that is). This not only reveals the targets current role and powers, but allows the Vampire to dictate how his target will use those powers for the next day/night cycle.

So, I'm curious. How are the villagers ever supposed to be able to stake a vampire? Vampire's will almost always have thrall(s), and having to kill two to four people at the same time is nigh impossible for the villagers.

I'd change the rule to something along the lines of: attempting to stake a vampire causes one of their thralls to sacrifice themselves for their master, and forces the vampire to hide for the night (can't make a thrall), with the villager's believing they killed the vampire. Report as the vampire dieing, with only the vamp and the thrall being told the truth until the end of the night, where it is reported as the thrall dieing in the night and the vamp being raised from the dead.


There needs to be some way to identify and destroy wraiths. Potentially have them remain among the ghosts and allow the ghosts to purge a member of their order (there will be tons of ghosts by the time the first wraith is made). This gives the ghosts a secondary game to play, and they are more likely to stick around.

[Count Dingdong]

Just discovered kinda large flaw in my solution: Masons. People would have to be pretty much blind. Otherwise people rejoining as other teams would be OP.

Alternative is not allow rejoins. But then have to have enough people anyway, otherwise potential for unbalance. Or can just have rule about no crossover from characters. But hard to avoid metagaming there...

Could work, might not. For now, best bet is no/few masons and wolves would be blind.

[Ur-Quan]

A connected wolf dying and getting up as a villager > Instaloss for the wolves.

[Count Dingdong]

A connected wolf dying and getting up as a villager > Instaloss for the wolves.

Exactly what I realized today...

Currently in midst of plannig game with my rules. Sort of test for whether works or not. Anyone willing to give it a shot? Still well in planning though... And a co-narrator would help. How would I sign up for running a game? Not right now, but when ready.

[Rules Lawyer #1]

So, I'm curious. How are the villagers ever supposed to be able to stake a vampire? Vampire's will almost always have thrall(s), and having to kill two to four people at the same time is nigh impossible for the villagers.

I'd change the rule to something along the lines of: attempting to stake a vampire causes one of their thralls to sacrifice themselves for their master, and forces the vampire to hide for the night (can't make a thrall), with the villager's believing they killed the vampire. Report as the vampire dieing, with only the vamp and the thrall being told the truth until the end of the night, where it is reported as the thrall dieing in the night and the vamp being raised from the dead.


There needs to be some way to identify and destroy wraiths. Potentially have them remain among the ghosts and allow the ghosts to purge a member of their order (there will be tons of ghosts by the time the first wraith is made). This gives the ghosts a secondary game to play, and they are more likely to stick around.

Ah! Thank you for this insightful observation! Even though the vampire does not start knowing who is among the living and who is not, he will most likely have found a thrall by the time the Villagers get around to staking him - I will change this with your wonderful idea!

I like the ghosts purging wraiths idea. Although, I'm still trying to wrap my mind around that idea. I will think about this some more before I include it. Maybe I just need to let ghosts be members of the undead and have them vote to kill rather than protect and then let wraiths be some sort of upgrade to the ghost but maybe not as powerful as I've laid out... hmmm...

Exactly what I realized today...

Currently in midst of plannig game with my rules. Sort of test for whether works or not. Anyone willing to give it a shot? Still well in planning though... And a co-narrator would help. How would I sign up for running a game? Not right now, but when ready.

The more I think about it, the less I want to drop ghosts from my game, but I still like having a recruitment plan for players that want to join after play starts.

I'd be happy to help you co-narrate your full idea in its full glory in another game though

[Gnomish Wanderer]

I officially submitted Classic Werewolf: The Village of Vilcas as the next Gnomish-ran werewolf game!

I just had one question about how I should run this. If the werewolves vote to kill off the (blind) Devil, does the Devil die? I believe they should, just looking to get the public opinion on this.

Other than that, it's ready to go!

[Internet Flea]

I believe the standard is that wolves can kill the Devil, yes. (Stops them from testing Devil claimants by just murdering them and seeing if they die.)

[Lex-Kat]

I think traditionally, the wolves kill the devil if they attack her during the night.

[Helgraf]

He comes ... Again He comes... The Master comes...
Strike him down, always he returns Always he calls...
The hammers gather, much at stake So many die to stop his wake...
The people cower, how they quake! Such a feast they do make!

Frightful beast and wolfen hound In the night the howls sound
Risen from the sodden ground Hidden in the holy mound
Who will fight and who will fall Will it matter? Not at all!
To end the darkness' horrid pall To crash our heads against the wall

Vampire VI is coming
Will you be ready?