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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by flabort View Post
    So besides my proposed zombie-magic-scifi variant, are there any other cases of a proposed variant never getting off the ground in the 8 central threads of WW?

    I mean, is there a history of people proposing stuff that wouldn't work and not going anywhere with it?
    I think I proposed about 3 that I either didn't do or couldn't find a way to work out. Never started.
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  2. - Top - End - #152
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by flabort View Post
    So besides my proposed zombie-magic-scifi variant, are there any other cases of a proposed variant never getting off the ground in the 8 central threads of WW?

    I mean, is there a history of people proposing stuff that wouldn't work and not going anywhere with it?
    I proposed a couple of games that never got anywhere. I also ran a game that didn't work.

    So yes.
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    I actually have two theories on why you're doing this, but neither make much sense and you would have to be insane to try them. It seems you are insane, which is great for my theories.
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  3. - Top - End - #153
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Ah. Multiple cases for some people, even. I feel better, then

    I'll see if I can't figure out a way, to someday run an open WW that works. Lets chalk up one failure to me, but victory is imminent. It is always within grasp, one just has to reach with a massive Mech Arm.

    Say... Maybe I can make a Giant Robots WW.... Nah, there's already Convoy, and I'd need to learn about some anime series otherwise.
    Matrix WW? Ooh. sounds cool, but definitely not Open. Who's an Agent ?

    Yeah, yeah. If there's not already a Matrix WW, I'll get right on figuring out how to make one.
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  4. - Top - End - #154
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by flabort View Post
    So besides my proposed zombie-magic-scifi variant, are there any other cases of a proposed variant never getting off the ground in the 8 central threads of WW?

    I mean, is there a history of people proposing stuff that wouldn't work and not going anywhere with it?
    I've got at least one which hasn't... Although be warned, Madness will be back.

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  5. - Top - End - #155
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by flabort View Post
    Ah. Multiple cases for some people, even. I feel better, then

    I'll see if I can't figure out a way, to someday run an open WW that works. Lets chalk up one failure to me, but victory is imminent. It is always within grasp, one just has to reach with a massive Mech Arm.

    Say... Maybe I can make a Giant Robots WW.... Nah, there's already Convoy, and I'd need to learn about some anime series otherwise.
    Matrix WW? Ooh. sounds cool, but definitely not Open. Who's an Agent ?

    Yeah, yeah. If there's not already a Matrix WW, I'll get right on figuring out how to make one.
    That could be pretty cool. My idea; The Agents are the Masons, and whenever an Agent is killed another player becomes an Agent. Then the resistance have the ability to unplug people (recruitment), and if an Agent is unplugged the player dies and that Agent is eliminated.

    And Neo takes some ridiculous condition to kill.
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    I actually have two theories on why you're doing this, but neither make much sense and you would have to be insane to try them. It seems you are insane, which is great for my theories.
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  6. - Top - End - #156
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Rum Runners 2: The Reestablishment

    Roles:

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    Mafia:
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    The Don: Banner Mason (chooses Da Boyz)
    Da Boyz: Mason
    Hitman: Killer
    Runner: Villager
    Fixer: Seer
    Strongman: Recruiter


    Objective: To have no FBI left.

    Cops:

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    Police Chief: Neutral Alpha/Mason (Chooses other Cops)
    Good Cop: Baner/Mason
    Bad Cop: Killer/Mason


    Objective: Survive to the end of the game.

    FBI:
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    Head of FBI: Alpha
    Star Agent: Beast
    Agent: Wolf
    Snitch: Devil


    Objective: Have majority of players (51%)



    There are three players who choose their teams. The Mafia has priority, followed by Cops, then FBI. If the Cops choose someone who already has a role, then they will be told that person is not available, and asked to choose again. The FBI will choose last. The rest of the roles will be given out randomly.

    The Mafia's Recruiter will be able to change someone's role from whatever it is, to Runner.


    What do you guys think?


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  7. - Top - End - #157
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    So, it's possible for the FBI to know some likely candidates for the baner and masons before game ends? This doesn't sound like a good idea.

    Other then that it's good.

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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    I am thinking either the FBI choosing second, or the Cops choosing second. I figured with Mafia + Cops already choosing it would create more uncertainty for the FBI.

    The order of choosing is the big issue here. If it goes FBI then Cops then Mafia, then there could be issues of the Mafia knowing the wolves. The Cops I see as second differently, it causes uncertainty. I could just randomize the Mafia, and I think that could fix the problem.


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  9. - Top - End - #159
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    If you need a co-narrator, I had fun with the last one. Although I'd rather play.

    EDIT: As far as the recruitment goes, maybe you could have the FBI go last and pick enough extra players to cover the cops and the masons and choose randomly from that list.
    Last edited by Zjoot; 2011-10-15 at 10:34 PM.
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Alright, so the Matrix WW isn't going to be an Open WW. But, here are the roles and win conditions I've figured out so far:

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    Team Citizenry
    Win Condition: Eliminate all Rebels and Agents, without The One being found
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    Citizen (Villiager)
    You are just a normal citizen. No special Night Actions.

    Police (Mason)
    The squad of police works together in a group. They know each other well, and are told each others identities.

    S.W.A.T. (seer + Fool)
    The SWAT team is made of elite infiltration specialists, and are able to get onto the scene of conflict rapidly.
    The SWAT members may Scry one target each, each night. They PM their Scry action, and which player to scry. They are told the member either belongs to the rebel team, Agent team, or if it belongs to team citizenry, their exact role (with the exception of The One).
    One SWAT member is always told the truth. The other, has a 50% chance of being wrong.

    The One (Secret - Vigilante)
    Is told it's a Citizen.
    Upon being Unplugged, is not removed from the game, but is recruited, meaning it switches teams to Team Rebel. It then gets the ability to Night kill.
    The One (after being recruited) PMs a target, and that target is killed, and turns up dead the next morning. This is the only ability that can kill an agent.
    If The One has been recruited, it must be targeted for killing twice within three phases (two nights and a day, or two days and a night), without interference by the Hacker.


    Team Rebels
    Win Condition: Recruit The One, and kill all Agents
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    Captain (Alpha)
    Capable of coordinating the rest of the rebels in his group, the Captain gets to choose his own team. Before play begins, he PMs a list of players, who then get randomly assigned roles within this team.
    You get to Unplug people with the help of your crew members. See thier description as to how it works.
    Since you pick your team, you know of all of them. You are informed which one is your Hacker. You think the Oracle is another crewman.

    Crewman (Wolf-ish)
    Nothing special about you. Oh, yeah, you work with the captain to unplug people, which is pretty much a night kill.
    They decide together, and PM a target, who is removed from the Matrix. They go on to live happy lives in Xion, rather than dieing, though. They are still removed from the game.
    The one exception is The One, who is recruited to the Rebel's cause instead of being removed from the game.
    You know the identities of all the other crewmen, the hacker, and the Captain. You also know of the Oracle, but think she's a crewman.

    Oracle (Devil-ish)
    You may or may not be able to see the future. Anyways, you serve as a guide to the rebels, and may Scry someone each night. PM a target, and you will learn their exact role.
    You know the roles and identities of everyone on your team already. Except for The One. That's why your scrying, partially to find him.

    Hacker (Baner (night and day))
    You rarely, if ever, go back into the Matrix. Rather, you usually help out your friends, by giving them the equipment, abilities, and programing they need to escape death, or capture, by Hacking the Matrix.
    You PM a target. They are safe, and cannot be night killed, or lynched, that night or the following day. You may target anyone, on your team or off.
    You know the identities of the crewmen and captain. You also know of the Oracle, but think she's another crewman.


    Team Agents
    Win Condition: Kill The One, and destroy all Rebels
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    Agent (Wolf)
    Each night, the Agents get a Night kill. They decide a target amongst themselves. They then PM a target, and it turns up dead the next day. The entire group only gets one night kill.
    As well, each night, each one get a Decoy. They PM a target, and if their killed that night or the next day (except by The One), the target is killed instead of them. If they target a member of Team Rebel, a random team citizen member will be killed instead.
    All Agents know each other, and the Smith.

    Smith (Devil)
    The SWAT of the Agents. Smith is The One's negative. Smith... is kind of not fond of the Matrix. But he's really good at finding Rebels.
    Each night, in addition to the group night kill and his personal Decoy, Smith may Scry a target. He is told the target's specific role, every time.
    He knows all the other Agents.


    The One is not, unfortunately hard to kill, and I need to add another ability to make him less kill-able. And if he's killed, and all agents are killed, that may end up with a non-winnable situation.

    So, I need to figure out how to make The One less vulnerable (I already have the Hacker, but he's got other targets too). Say, if he is targeted to die in one phase, he must be targeted in the next as well? Never mind.

    Anyways, this ends up essentially two teams of wolves, with one wolf team being "good", and the villager team being neutral instead of good. And the Evil wolf team being all but unkillable. ...yeah, if team neutral wants to win, they have to help team good, then turn on them afterwards. All the while losing more and more numbers.

    Good idea? Bad idea? Already claimed (I hope not)?
    Nope, not claimed, not a single entry is found using Ctrl+F in the Archives. Yes....
    Last edited by flabort; 2011-10-15 at 10:46 PM.
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  11. - Top - End - #161
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Tialait View Post
    I am thinking either the FBI choosing second, or the Cops choosing second. I figured with Mafia + Cops already choosing it would create more uncertainty for the FBI.

    The order of choosing is the big issue here. If it goes FBI then Cops then Mafia, then there could be issues of the Mafia knowing the wolves. The Cops I see as second differently, it causes uncertainty. I could just randomize the Mafia, and I think that could fix the problem.
    It's only uncertain until the FBI sends a scry. Then they either have a potential ally or a potential target. I'd maybe check with supagoof and zar peter how they did it, since in Ye Old West there are two alpha sides that picked their own team members.

    By the way, I realised that a villager recruiter would be a game breaker, wouldn't it?

    Edit: @Flabort: What does this "thinks the oracle is another crewman" mean?
    Last edited by Gray Mage; 2011-10-15 at 10:40 PM.

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  12. - Top - End - #162
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Mage View Post
    Edit: @Flabort: What does this "thinks the oracle is another crewman" mean?
    So, the Captain chooses, lets say four members. So, a five man team. everyone knows eachother on the team. And they know the Captain's and Hacker's Roles. But they don't know which of the other three rebels is the oracle. OK, so the oracle might tell them. But their just told the player who gets the role of oracle is a "crewman".
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  13. - Top - End - #163
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by flabort View Post
    So, the Captain chooses, lets say four members. So, a five man team. everyone knows eachother on the team. And they know the Captain's and Hacker's Roles. But they don't know which of the other three rebels is the oracle. OK, so the oracle might tell them. But their just told the player who gets the role of oracle is a "crewman".
    ...why wouldn't the oracle tell them this?

    It sounds like it'd just make the oracle have to say it instead of them knowing since the begining without any reason, with is kind of pointless IMO, no offence meant.

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  14. - Top - End - #164
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Yeah, that occurred to me when I was typing my reply. It's not like the seer in a team that doesn't know each other.

    So, I'll change it in the final version. I think this one is actually playable, though. Hard, and if the One is killed before being recruited, it's either a no-win or agent win, but the Matrix was a very, very unfriendly setting. Very gritty, and very unfair to the protagonists in the movie.

    Such an unfair WW would be fitting. OK, So, this is a Small WW, officially requesting to open Oct 31, the same day as Trick or Treat 2 (two small games can start on the same week, right? Or a small at the same time as a Large?). Just wondering, should I start recruitment right away if that date is OK, or wait a week or two?
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  15. - Top - End - #165
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by flabort View Post
    Yeah, that occurred to me when I was typing my reply. It's not like the seer in a team that doesn't know each other.

    So, I'll change it in the final version. I think this one is actually playable, though. Hard, and if the One is killed before being recruited, it's either a no-win or agent win, but the Matrix was a very, very unfriendly setting. Very gritty, and very unfair to the protagonists in the movie.

    Such an unfair WW would be fitting. OK, So, this is a Small WW, officially requesting to open Oct 31, the same day as Trick or Treat 2 (two small games can start on the same week, right? Or a small at the same time as a Large?). Just wondering, should I start recruitment right away if that date is OK, or wait a week or two?
    You should probably make a note on the decoy ability that it's ignored by the One's kill. And you could make it so the one survives his first kill, to help prevent the no kill situation.

    Or make it so the rebels and agents need to have be half of the remaining players after the other faction is rooted, that would fix the one dying before recruiting problem.

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  16. - Top - End - #166
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    A Villager Recruiter would break the game? Really? I think it would be interesting. Give me a rundown as to why it would break the game. After all, the way I have it written, he could accidentally recruit the Don and destroy the power role.


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  17. - Top - End - #167
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Tialait View Post
    A Villager Recruiter would break the game? Really? I think it would be interesting. Give me a rundown as to why it would break the game. After all, the way I have it written, he could accidentally recruit the Don and destroy the power role.
    Recruit a wolf, he gives out the other wolves, game is as good as done.

    Edit: I think it could work if the wolves were to be blind, though.
    Last edited by Gray Mage; 2011-10-15 at 11:12 PM.

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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Mage View Post
    ...why wouldn't the oracle tell them this?
    ...because there's a Spy?

    Or make it so the rebels and agents need to have be half of the remaining players after the other faction is rooted, that would fix the one dying before recruiting problem.
    Or make him invincible until he's recruited.

    Also, I know it doesn't fit the setting, but the Agents need to be significantly crippled. Maybe only one Agent gets a Decoy during any given night phase. Having them be invincible unless the One is recruited is vastly overpowered.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tydude View Post
    I actually have two theories on why you're doing this, but neither make much sense and you would have to be insane to try them. It seems you are insane, which is great for my theories.
    Quote Originally Posted by ZarethG View Post
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Flabort, if every agent has the Decoy ability this make's night kills from the rebel team more or less only good for killing civilians. You might want to limit the amount of Decoyness (only X per night per team or everyone can use it but only every other day or something).
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  20. - Top - End - #170
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by Internet Flea View Post
    ...because there's a Spy?
    Sorry, but you've lost me there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Internet Flea View Post
    Or make him invincible until he's recruited.

    Also, I know it doesn't fit the setting, but the Agents need to be significantly crippled. Maybe only one Agent gets a Decoy during any given night phase. Having them be invincible unless the One is recruited is vastly overpowered.
    They are hard to kill, but invincible is pushing it a bit, don't you think? Nevermind, I'd read the decoy as if it only worked on NKs. Yes, that has to go.

    Also, are you thinking on implementing the "take over" thing that happens when an agent dies? If so, you could have part of the agent team members "inactive agents" that aren't aware that they're agents and become aware when a known agent dies. Sort of like the assassins' games do.
    Last edited by Gray Mage; 2011-10-15 at 11:25 PM.

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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Good call on the recruiter. I think that could end the game too quickly.

    So, I will remove the recruiter, and I am waiting for more imput before changing the Masons.


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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Mage View Post
    Sorry, but you've lost me there.
    Simple; the Oracle would have a reason to stay hidden if there was a Spy among the Rebels; either a Cop or a Disgruntled Rebel or an Agent.
    So this is me recommending adding a Spy to the Rebels.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Mage View Post
    They are hard to kill, but invincible is pushing it a bit, don't you think? Nevermind, I'd read the decoy as if it only worked on NKs. Yes, that has to go.

    Also, are you thinking on implementing the "take over" thing that happens when an agent dies? If so, you could have part of the agent team members "inactive agents" that aren't aware that they're agents and become aware when a known agent dies. Sort of like the assassins' games do.
    Or you could have them pick someone to replace them, and if they pick a Rebel (and probably a few villager roles) it fails, they die and the role is not replaced.
    Plus maybe a percentage chance of it failing for certain power roles being in play.
    Break the rhythm!
    Reinforce the rhyme!

    (I guess I should put something here.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tydude View Post
    I actually have two theories on why you're doing this, but neither make much sense and you would have to be insane to try them. It seems you are insane, which is great for my theories.
    Quote Originally Posted by ZarethG View Post
    I see your point, Internet Flea. However, I don't retract my assessment of your sanity.




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  23. - Top - End - #173
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    What stops the Spy from just outing all the Rebels at the start?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murska View Post
    I have no idea how you could possibly have convinced anyone, living or not, witch or not, to for a single second doubt that you were scum. It's scary.
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Perhaps the spy is a neutral-ish role? He works with the rebels, but wants the oracle dead for a personal reason or something as part of his win condition.
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Tialait View Post
    Rum Runners 2: The Reestablishment

    Roles:

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    Mafia:
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    The Don: Banner Mason (chooses Da Boyz)
    Da Boyz: Mason
    Hitman: Killer
    Runner: Villager
    Fixer: Seer
    Strongman: Recruiter


    Objective: To have no FBI left.

    Cops:

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    Police Chief: Neutral Alpha/Mason (Chooses other Cops)
    Good Cop: Baner/Mason
    Bad Cop: Killer/Mason


    Objective: Survive to the end of the game.

    FBI:
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    Head of FBI: Alpha
    Star Agent: Beast
    Agent: Wolf
    Snitch: Devil


    Objective: Have majority of players (51%)



    There are three players who choose their teams. The Mafia has priority, followed by Cops, then FBI. If the Cops choose someone who already has a role, then they will be told that person is not available, and asked to choose again. The FBI will choose last. The rest of the roles will be given out randomly.

    The Mafia's Recruiter will be able to change someone's role from whatever it is, to Runner.


    What do you guys think?
    i like that!
    Im having a watch-log-thing.
    Read it HERE!

  26. - Top - End - #176
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Oy. OK... So...
    I go to sleep. during the night, I realize that I'd given the citizens an impossible win condition, and the no-win condition couldn't happen:
    Reason, to kill agents, The One has to be found. So... I significantly either need to Nerf the agents, And/or change the win conditions a little.

    And when I wake up, I see people telling me the Agents are too strong

    @ Internet Flea: I considered having a Traitor (Spy/Disgruntled Rebel/whatever), decided against it. It's already hard enough of a game.

    Also, thing is, in the movies, until Neo was recruited and told he was The One, he was an ordinary guy. OK, a bit of a criminal, but an ordinary guy. The Agents didn't kill him right away when they found him, because they wanted to use him to locate+kill Morpheus.

    And making him invincible before recruitment just gives him away.

    @ Ramsus: Yes, Decoy is too strong. Maybe only works on Night Kills (Aka unpluggings)? Or, similar to The One's ability, they can't be killed unless targeted twice in three phases? Except, I'd make it four for agents, and the first targeting kills a Decoy.

    General: Yeah, that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to change the Agent's Decoy ability, so that If the decoy is killed, the ability cannot be used again the next night. Leaving him open for about two to three phases.

    The list of roles above is not going to get edited with this change. Rather, I have a text document with all the formatting the first post will be in, and have put the changes there. If I make enough changes, I might repost the roles.

    So If I understand the rules on small games and scheduling, since I've requested Oct 31, I wait until that date to post the thread and start recruitment? Or do I start the thread now, and recruit until Oct 31? Or is the latter for Large games?

    Anyways, the thread would be called The Matrix Rewound. If the title is necessary for scheduling purposes.
    Demilich avatar by Smuchmuch. Thank you VERY much!

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    Awright, Supagoof, that's just awesome. Thanks!
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    Infernal avatar by Savana. Thanks!

    Nude version by SmuchMuch.

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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    Preferrably not in the Central thread. That'd be a crying shame because, say, I wouldn't be able to Narrate any more.
    Day XX Ends.

    "C'mon, guys, it was a joke! Don't kill me he-"
    But it was too late. The blade plunged straight through the man's heart, killing him instantly.
    A few of the others stood around around, blinking at what had just happened. Eyeing the corpse, one looked at the killer with scornful contempt. "I hope you're proud of yourself."

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    bladescape was lynched. He was A Pretty Awesome Narrator.


    Finally forced me into getting one of these.

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  28. - Top - End - #178
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Hahahaha. *claps*

    Oh...right. Oops. *fishes out a Phoenix Down he pocketed from the Final Fantasy game and uses it on Bladescape*
    Avatar by araveugnitsuga

    Quote Originally Posted by Murska View Post
    I have no idea how you could possibly have convinced anyone, living or not, witch or not, to for a single second doubt that you were scum. It's scary.
    Theme song Vesth made for me.
    My overly long signature


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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    No, not Bladescape! Someone grab the Defib, there might still be time!

    CLEAR!
    *Bzzt*

    EDIT: To actually contribute somewhat...

    I'm actually surprised no one has done a Matrix WW. While I agree that things should be a bit more balanced, I agree and want it to be hard and stacked for the Agents to give it that Matrix feel.
    Last edited by Xanmyral; 2011-10-16 at 02:13 PM.
    Titles, Achievements, and Quotes of Honor
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    Infernal Teamworker - City of Shadows Wondering if anyone is still checking this...
    Ruler of the City - City of Shadows Hello? Anyone there? PM me if you want the Color Code.
    The Fallen Chessmaster - Center WW I don't really see a reason to get rid of this.
    The Manipulative/The Opaque - Demons WW Its kind of neat.

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    Default Re: Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    IDEA FOR THE IDEALESS NERRATOR HOST:
    Write your death scene!
    everyone are narrators! the lynch target or the night kill target write their own scenes, any theme they want!

    what do you think?
    Im having a watch-log-thing.
    Read it HERE!

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