Lands of the Barbarian Kings

[SpaceBadger]

Typical! I brew up three of the greatest pieces of fluff, and nobody says anything.

Hmm, three pieces of fluff: Earth Children, Black Tower, and... reaching back aways... Wood Elf Clans?

The Black Tower organization I liked, and may be useful in considering similar organizations in one of my campaigns, but I'm not likely to borrow it whole.

Earth Children... nothing really against them, just didn't strike me as anything I'd use.

Wood Elf Clans... again, maybe fitting in better in your own world.

Whereas the crunch! Wow! You are addressing some issues that I have been trying to work out in both of my own campaigns, and I like a lot of what you are coming up with! So yeah, I guess at present I'm getting a little more out of the crunchy stuff in this thread.

EDIT: I really liked the Clan Structure and Social Ranks fluff posted on 12/12.

[Yora]

Really? Most I do is cutting away 80% of all options and comic up with crude fixes to where it leaves glaring holes.

Also, five pages! Though it only makes this the second longest thread in the forum because all the other longrunners have been discontinued...

[SpaceBadger]

Really? Most I do is cutting away 80% of all options and comic up with crude fixes to where it leaves glaring holes.

Ah, but as in the old joke about knowing where to mark the X, there is value in deciding what 80% to cut and how to fix the gaps. Anyway, I am finding it useful and inspirational.

[Yora]

I have added metamagic pendants to the Wondrous Items list.

Knowledge Skills
The Knowledge skill is split up for generic games, but I think it's a good idea to reorganize them for a Barbarian Lands campaign.

• Arcana: Stays pretty much untouched. It applies to ancient mysteries, magic traditions, arcane symbols, constructs, dragons, magical beasts and now also undead.
• Clans: Pretty much replaces Knowledge (nobility) and relates to lineages, heraldry, personalities, royalty.
• Demons Knowledge (planes) for the Void. Relates to the Void, creatures with the (demon) subtype.
• Dungeoneering: Stays the same, but aberrations are now part of Knowledge (spirits), which leaves caverns, oozes, spelunking, making it Knowledge (Nature) for underground environments.
• Geography Unchanged, relates to lands, terrain, climate, people
• History Also nothing new here. wars, colonies, migrations, founding of cities
• Local I follow many other settings here and split this one up by regions. It tells about legends, personalities, inhabitants, laws, customs, traditions, humanoids. The regions are discussed below.
• Nature Very similar, but fey get their own subskill now. This means it relates to animals, giants, plants, seasons and cycles, weather, vermin.
• Religion Still applies to gods and demigods, mythic history, ecclesiastic tradition, holy symbols but now excludes undead.
• Spirits Knowledge (planes) for the Spiritworld. Relates to the Spiritworld, creatures with the (spirit) subtype, aberrations.

Knowledge (engineering) is cut. That's a profession skill.

Which brings us to the Class Skill List. Since Clerics and Wizards are gone, Oracles and Sorcerers get some of their responsibilities of lorekeepers.

* Bonus Class Skills for Bloodlines and Mysteries.

The Elements Bloodline gains Knowledge (planes), but (spirits) is already a class skill for sorcerers. The Dark Tapestry and Heavens Mystery gain Knowledge (arcana), which is now an Oracle class skill. I have to come up with something else for that.

Regions

Since Geography is not yet finally set, this might probably change, but I think I have a pretty good idea about them.
Here again a very old map, but the basic layout I have in mind is very similar.

1. Frozen Tundra: The lands beyond the great mountain range that forms the northern border of the Barbarian Lands, home to some small groups of humans and giants.
2. Northlands: The large open wilderness that lies south of the great mountains at the northern edge of the Barbarian Lands.
3. Cold Plains: The Region between the great mountain range in the north, and the Border Hills in the south. Home to a large number of kaas clans.
4. Deep Forests: A barely populated area on the very western border of the Barbarian Lands, that also includes the Border Hills, that seperate the Barbarian Lands from the great plains in the west.
5. Northern Clanlands: The region south of the Northlands and east of the Deep Forest, which border the Inner Sea. Home mostly to wood elves.
6. Southern Clanlands: The lower River-Valley that opens to the Inner Sea and the southernmost parts of the Great Forest. Home to wood elves and most human clans that migrated from the west.
7. Upper River Valley: This region includes the mountains at the southern End of the Border Hills, as well as the mostly unsettled western parts of the great river valley. Except for a major dark elf city in the mountains, most inhabitants are giants and harpies.
8. Southern Highlands: The hills and mountains that seperate the southern jungles from the plains in the west beyond the Barbarian Lands. Home to a few dark elf clans and harpies.
9. Western Jungles: the Lands southeast of the river valley, home to most dark elves in the west. And Old Jungles, home to the great lizardfolk civilizations in the east.
10. Eastern Jungles:The dark and distant jungles in the very southeast of the Barbarian Lands that are still mostly under controll by naga.
11. Elven Islands: The northern section of the islands that shield the Inner Sea from the open ocean. Inhabited mostly by wood elves.
12. Lizard Islands: The southern part of the islands of the Inner Sea, home mostly to lizardfolk and some small human clans.

[Cieyrin]

Switching Metamagic rods into Pendants make sense, though perhaps a bit more restrictive, since it now takes up a body slot.

I like Knowledge(Local) being regional (It makes no sense to be able to know things about the local people when you've never spent any time in a region before). In relation to knowledges, you say Fey has been moved to its own skill but I don't see where it got moved, unless they got absorbed into Spirits now.

[Yora]

Fey fall into the category of creatures with the spirit subtype. But I think I won't even be using the fey type, since pretty much all these creatures are outsiders with the native or elemental subtypes.
Dryads have been wrapped into nymphs, which I upgraded to outsiders, and I am not exactly sure if I want to have pixies. And that's about all the creatures of the fey type I consider using. The bigger hit dice and better BAB makes outsiders a lot tougher, as they are supposed to be, and they don't eat and sleep by default, which is also fine with me.

[SpaceBadger]

Liking the Knowledge stuff. I've thought of making Knowledge (local) more like it works in GURPS. Characters can put points into a Knowledge (local) skill for the place they grew up, or can invest later in Knowledge of places they have spent significant amounts of time. "Local" can be either a particular village or city or region - the greater the area, the more non-specific the knowledge is, so the character knows stuff that "everybody knows" but is less likely to know something specific beyond their own area.

Umm, examples... a villager who has never travelled will have extensive knowledge of his own village and the immediate are, knowing pretty much everybody who lives there or visits often, and will have vague ideas about whatever nation his village is located in, and maybe that road leads to City X, and City Y is over on the coast somewhere down that road over there...

A caravan merchant will have Knowledge (local) of the route(s) he commonly travels, knowing the way to get from point A to point B, common stops along the way, etc. His knowledge of inidividual cities and towns along the way will be less in depth, limited more to good inns and merchants to trade with, less likely to know much about any but the most famous of residents.

Yeah, there is some overlap into the lowest levels of Geography skill, but I think that is necessary - this is just the amount of geography known from living some place, not from travelling and studying maps and so forth.

I think that is a character has spent some significant time in a place, even if they didn't put any ranks into Knowledge (local) for that place, I'd probably give them an untrained skill roll to see if they happen to have heard and recall something from when they lived there.

[Yora]

Should I give this one a try? The curses and archetypes could be nice, and it's under 2,50€.

However, most third party pdfs I bought were crap.

[SpaceBadger]

OK, kinda of a rehash of my immediate prior post re Knowledge (local). I thought of just deleting that post to re-write, but I am too lazy to type all that again, when really I'm not changing much but the rules framework I would use for that skill.

I would still apply Knowledge (local) based on what is "local" to a character (the villager who has never travelled, the caravan merchant, etc) with modifiers to skill checks depending on distance of areas outside that character's life experience.

But I would change what I said above, and not include even simple Knowledge (geography) as included with Knowledge (local). I'd leave the subskill definitions Knowledge (local, geography, nature, etc) as Yora stated them above. But then I would allow untrained checks on some Knowledge subskills (geography, history, nature) for local stuff that a character should encounter on a regular basis. Even if that non-travelling villager has no ranks at all in Knowledge (geography) he should get some roll to know that City X is thataway and City Y is thataway.

[SpaceBadger]

Should I give this one a try? The curses and archetypes could be nice, and it's under 2,50€.

However, most third party pdfs I bought were crap.

I would just balk at spending $2.99 for a nine-page PDF. Dunno, maybe you'll get feedback from someone who has actually read the whole thing and says it is great and well worth it, but...

Did you check out the Preview? One page was just the title page, so really there was only one page of preview, and I wasn't much impressed.

[SpaceBadger]

Knowledge (engineering) is cut. That's a profession skill.

Would some of the dungeon-oriented aspects of Knowledge (engineering) move over under Knowledge (dungeoneering)? I'm thinking specifically of the "identify dangerous construction" example from the PF rules, but also such things as searching for traps or finding secret doors - not stepping on special abilities of Rogues or Dwarves, but just bonus on Perception rolls for these things. Or should that just be left to meta-knowlege, that an experienced player (as opposed to character) would try certain things that they may have seen before?

[Yora]

Should I give this one a try? The curses and archetypes could be nice, and it's under 2,50€.

However, most third party pdfs I bought were crap.

I bought the thing, and I have to say it's really good! I really want the Darkness mystery, it's way better than Dark Tapestry and actually a really awesome mystery in itself. Think of an oracle shadowdancer. Primeval and Rot are also quite cool.
The Bad Luck, Hated, and Voices curses are also very flavorful if you don't want a disability or Haunted.
I will clearly use them in games I run myself, but it's a bit akward in regard to the setting. I want at least the Darkness mystery as an integral part of the setting and legally, I think I could just copy-paste it. But the pdf doesn't have any fluff, it's pure rules and probably hard enough to sell as it is. At this low price the price will be happy about every cent he gets.

Maybe, when I get everything ready for some form of publication, I could include only the Darkness mystery with a reference that it's from The Secrets of the Oracle, which would be a small advertisement for the whole thing. But at my working speed, that might still be well two or three years ago.

[Yora]

Oh, hello there, elephant. I didn't notice you there the whole time. Maybe we should talk a bit about you?

The issue at hand here is Blood Magic. I still don't know how exactly to implement it.

A sorcerer bloodline like the demons bloodline would be one way to handle it, but then the characters would lose their original bloodline and blood magic wouldn't be that much a magical practice that you can add to your normal spellcasting. Also, it does not adress oracles, who I believe also should be able to practice blood magic.

Archetypes are right out, since you really need them at first level, and I want most blood mages to pick it up at a later point.

Feats would be an easy solution, but barbarian lands characters don't gain level often and even with the Pathfinder progression you might have to wait for almost two full levels until you can actually start using your new knowledge of blood magic. Also with only 4 or 5 feats as a mid-level character, having another "unlock" feat would be quite a burden. Maybe a Blood Mastery feat which reduces the penalties for using blood magic, but every spellcasting character should be able to learn it at any time, or even use it only once or twice in very desperate situations.

So, have you any other ideas how to implement it without making it an option that only has RP prerequisites?

[Othniel Edden]

Could try to make it a skill check with spellcraft or knowledge Arcana with penalities tied directly to the DC?

For example, you're a first level sorcerer, and you find yourself needing to cast a Fireball. Well, thats a 3rd level spell, and you need to be 7th level to cast it. So the bloodmagic's DC is going to be 20. Additionally lets say that in order to avoid bloodmagic's negative effects you have to roll higher than the save by the spell level. Thats 20 to cast the spell and 23 to avoid negative effects of that spell. A sorcerer with skill focus would have a +12 at best to whatever skill you required of them. So in order to avoid the negative effects they'd have to roll an 11. Take and modify if you think it should be harder or easier...

[Steckie]

I have an idea and i'm pretty sure you're not going to like it, but here i go anyway.

Instead of giving blood magic to oracles and sorcerers, you get another class that can use it. And there's a class out there that's perfect for it: the Bard.
It fits in your setting, since it's a spontaneous charisma based caster. And you can easily refluff him.

Just remove everything that has something to do with music and replace it with blood magic.
Want to cast a spell? --- Use your blood of the blood of others.
Bardic knowledge? --- It changes into Blood Memory, the bard sifts trough the genetic memory of his blood or that of others to dig up old knowledge.
Countersong? --- Change it into Control Blood. The bard tries to control the blood of a person casting a spell, hindering his voice or motions so he must make a check to try and finish the spell.
Fascinate? --- Bloody Fascination, the bard lets blood drip from his body or uses blood to make drawings on himself that fascinate.
Inspire courage/competence? --- Bloody courage/competence, the bard draws blood on himself, inspiring his comrades to do better.
Lore Master? --- Blood Lore, again diving into the genetic memory to boost knowledge checks.

Well, you probably get the point of what i'm trying to tell you here.
I think it wouldn't require much work to change a bard into a blood mage.
All of of knowledge and other high skill levels can be attributed to his blood memory. He has limited spell selection, so he wont be too powerfull to put into the campain world.

[Yora]

That is actually a very good idea for a new homebrew class. I do like it quite a lot, but it is indeed not a practical solution in this situation.
With a new class, you would have to start right back at 1st level when you pick it up and could not advance your other classes at the same time. And with campaigns expected to span only four or five levels, that is a very severe effect. But under other circumstances, it sounds like a really interesting class concept.

[Cieyrin]

How about making a 1-3 level PrC aimed at Blood Magic? Put in some skill requirements, casting ability (Able to cast 2nd level spells or some such?), perhaps a social prereq where you have to be trained by someone who already knows/find a scroll or other written record on the subject. I could see there being a cave with the working of blood magic scribbled over the walls in hieroglyphics or cave paintings that you have to study for a week or something like that.

Have the Blood Mastery as a feat requiring a special ability from the PrC, leave casting in but don't advance bloodline/mystery as a cost of using Blood Magic.

[Steckie]

Perhaps you can create a template. Give the template some requirements and you're set.
The problem with this however is that you need to be carefull so that sorcerers and oracles who take this template don't get too powerfull in comparison to those wo don't take it. Or in comparison to non-spellcasting classes.
Perhaps add some negative effects as well?
Or make several templates that people can choose from?


Another thing you can do is make it a drug or addiction like it says on the pathfinder srd.
Give every spell you can cast with blood magic a blood cost.
Let's assume every spell has a blood cost of 1, higher level spells have a cost of 2 or 3. The blood mage gets a daily blood usage of 5 (maybe higher or lower, or maybe it scales with level). Go over the daily blood usage and you get more and more addicted. And you roll the dice to avoid Con damage for 2-3 days.
Let the addiction get too far out of control and you suffer more negative effects. For instance if an enemy causes you to bleed, you uncontrolably cast a spell or something like that.


I don't know, i'm more of a fluff person so my suggestions may be total rubbish or may be impossible to implement in the setting.
And if they're good enough to use they're probably a load of work for you

[Yora]

I think this one really needs the fluff done before I can get to the crunch.

What I have so far is that "energy = energy". Life force, magic, heat, electricity, it's all different forms of the same thing, which can be transformed from one form to another, while still relying on the laws of thermodynamics. You can't create energy, you can only transform it.
Normal magic works by drawing ambient energy from the surroundings. A bit from the air, some from the ground, some from plants, and other creatures, but spread so evenly that it isn't noticable. It's like sucking water with a straw from a swimming pool. It immediately evens out without any noticable drop in energy at any one point. Beginning spellcasters learn to use their own spirits or sould as capacitors for these energies which are charged during rest. The more powerful the caster becomes, the more energy he can store. Spell-like abilities work just the same way.
Before mortals learned to do that under the supervision of spirits, they had already discovered blood magic. Blood transports energy to all parts of the body, so it is one of the most energy-rich substances known in the natural world. And also readily available. Once magic as used by the spirits became universially known, blood magic almost died out, since the way of the spirits is much safer, less painful, and less messy. Those who still known blood magic almost always use it to complement their reserves of magical energy for spellcasting.

Spellcasters using blood magic should not be more powerful than others, but it should also give them some extra punch. Allowing them to do things that would usually much more difficult to do or learn. Like the Dark Side, not more poweful, but faster and easier. For the price of draining life energy.

As said before, I want access to blood magic be mostly be an RP thing with characters being able to pick it up when they need it and not just when they gain the next of their already rare feats, which might still be 10 or so play sessions away.
So maybe it would be a good idea to make basic and advanced blood magic. Basic blood magic can be picked up by anyone with a caster level, but advanced blood magic requires specialization, like a feat or two.

Since blood magic is a secret lore, it requires some kind of initiation. Usually by another blood mage, or through rare tomes. Not immortal spirits or demons though, since their physical forms are already magical constructs and don't contain "real" blood. Also undead have their life energy so much twisted up to "negative energy", that the normal processes of blood magic no longer work either. They are not immune, but can't tap into their own blood, if they even have any.
Since Pathfinder dropped XP costs for spells and creating magic items, blood magic initiation shouldn't have any either. But expensive material components to unlock access to the energy in the blood could be part of it. Initiation could be a reward for a quest, or even treasure. Always a nice trade is spell slots or spells known. Since we only have spontaneous casters, spells known would be brutal, but spell slots are actually quite abundant. You could trade in a 2nd level slot for "blood secret x" or a 4th level slot for "blood secret y". You gain spellcasting power, so it would be appropriate to also lose some. Fluff-wise it could be said that "pure blood casting" has been completely lost long ago and only this complementary form is still known.

This is actually all comming together as I write. Metamagic seems like a good way to go. Sudden metamagic, now that I think of it. You perform a ritual and sacrifice a spell slot and in return you gain the benefit of sudden metamagic feats. You don't have to spend a feat, but each time you use it, it is not free, but drains your constitution.

Example:
Blood Empower: As a sudden action you sacrifice 4 points of constitution burn and in return the next spell you cast in the same round (or begin to cast) is under the effect of the Empower Spell feat. You have to spend 2,000 gp in material components and a 3rd level spell slot to learn this ability.

The ritual cost are made up on the fly, no idea what would be good numbers.
Constitution burn can not be healed of prevented by any means and returns only through normal healing of ability damage. If you have any ability or item that negates reductions to ability scores, you can not benefit from Blood Secrets. Only magic equal to a wish spell can restore the lost constitution points. Greater restoration can heal 2 points of constitution burn per day (for 5,000 gp).
If you learn the Blood Mastery feat, the constitution cost is reduced by half.

[Yora]

I've been going through the new Bestiary 3 creatures in the Pathfinder SRD and I have come up with an intersting take on kitsune, based on the animal lord.

A Nine-Tailed Kitsune would be at the very top of the food chain, right below Ancient Red Dragons and nothing much else. And with a sorcerer caster level of 17th, there isn't anything that would outcast them.

Spoiler

Show

Kitsune

Kitsune (One Tailed) CR 3
XP 800
Medium outsider (shapechanger, spirit)
Init +8; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent; Perception +7
AC 16, touch 14, flat-footed 12 (+4 Dex, +2 natural)
hp 17 (2d10+6)
Fort +3, Ref +7, Will +5
Immune petrification, polymorph; Resist cold 5, electricity 5, fire 5; SR 14
Speed 40 ft.
Melee bite +3 (1d6+1)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 2nd; concentration +5)
At will — charm animal (canines only, DC 14)
Spells Known (CL 2nd; concentration +5)
1st (5/day) — charm person (DC 14), sleep (DC 14)
0 — dancing lights, detect magic, mage hand, message, resistance
Abilities Str 12, Dex 19, Con 17, Int 15, Wis 14, Cha 17
Base Atk +2; CMB +3; CMD 17
Feats Improved Initiative
Skills Acrobatics +9 (+14 if jumping), Bluff +7, Knolwedge (arcana) +7, Knowledge (spirits) +7, Perception +7, Sense Motive +6, Stealth +9, Survival +7, Swim +6; Racial Modifiers +5 Acrobatics when jumping, +4 Survival when tracking by scent
Languages Sylvan; speak with animals (canines only)
SQ change shape (fox, shapechange)
Environment Temperate forests, Spiritworld
Organization solitary
Treasure double
Leap (Ex) A kitsune adds a bonus of +4 plus half its Hit Dice to all Acrobatics checks made to jump, and is always treated as if it had a running start when jumping.

Kitsune (Five Tailed) CR 10
XP 9,600
Medium outsider (shapechanger, spirit)
Init +8; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent; Perception +13
AC 16, touch 14, flat-footed 12 (+4 Dex, +2 natural)
hp 76 (9d10+27)
Fort +5, Ref +10, Will +8
Immune petrification, polymorph; Resist cold 10, electricity 10, fire 10; DR 5/cold iron; SR 21
Speed 40 ft.
Melee bite +10 (1d6+1)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 9th; concentration +13)
At will — charm animal (canines only, DC 15)
Spells Known (CL 9th; concentration +13)
4th (5/day) — bestow curse (DC 18), dimension door
3rd (7/day) — dispel magic, haste, hold person (DC 17), fly, suggestion (DC 17)
2nd (7/day) — bull's strength, darkness, minor image (DC 16), scorching ray
1st (8/day) — charm person (DC 15), disguise self (DC 15), expeditious retreat, shocking grasp, sleep (DC 15)
0 — dancing lights, daze (DC 14), detect poison, detect magic, mage hand, message, read magic, resistance
Abilities Str 12, Dex 19, Con 17, Int 15, Wis 15, Cha 18
Base Atk +9; CMB +10; CMD 24
Feats Empower Spell, Expanded Arcana, Improved Initiative, Silent Spell, Spell Penetration
Skills Acrobatics +15 (+20 if jumping), Bluff +13, Diplomacy +8, Knolwedge (arcana) +11, Knowledge (nature) +6, Knowledge (spirits) +11, Perception +13, Sense Motive +13, Spellcraft +10, Stealth +13, Survival +9, Swim +8; Racial Modifiers +8 Acrobatics when jumping, +4 Survival when tracking by scent
Languages Sylvan; speak with animals (canines only)
SQ change shape (fox, shapechange)
Environment Temperate forests, Spiritworld
Organization solitary
Treasure double
Leap (Ex) A kitsune adds a bonus of +4 plus half its Hit Dice to all Acrobatics checks made to jump, and is always treated as if it had a running start when jumping.

Kitsune (Nine Tailed) CR 18
XP 153,600
Medium outsider (shapechanger, spirit)
Init +8; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent; Perception +18
AC 16, touch 14, flat-footed 12 (+4 Dex, +2 natural)
hp 144 (17d10+51)
Fort +10, Ref +14, Will +12
Immune petrification, polymorph; Resist cold 15, electricity 15, fire 15; DR 10/cold iron; SR 29
Speed 40 ft.
Melee bite +18 (1d6+1)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 17th; concentration +21)
At will — charm animal (canines only, DC 15)
Spells Known (CL 17th; concentration +21)
8th (4/day) — mind blank, polymorph any object (DC 22)
7th(6/day) — limited wish, plane shift, spell turning
6th (6/day) — chain lightning (DC 20), contingency, eyebite (DC 20), globe of invulnerability, mislead
5th (6/day) — cone of cold (DC 19), dominate person (DC 20), hold monster (DC 20), persistent image (DC 19)
4th (5/day) — bestow curse (DC 18), charm monster (DC 19), dimension door, greater invisibility,
3rd (7/day) — dispel magic, haste, fly, lightning bolt (DC 17), protection from energy, suggestion (DC 18)
2nd (7/day) — bull's strength, darkness, fog cloud, minor image (DC 16), scorching ray
1st (8/day) — charm person (DC 16), disguise self (DC 15), expeditious retreat, shocking grasp, sleep (DC 16)
0 — dancing lights, daze (DC 15), detect poison, detect magic, mage hand, message, read magic, resistance, touch of fatigue (DC 14)
Abilities Str 12, Dex 19, Con 17, Int 16, Wis 16, Cha 18
Base Atk +17; CMB +19; CMD 23
Feats Arcane Strike, Empower Spell, Expanded Arcana, Great Fortitude, Heighten Spell, Improved Initiative, Silent Spell, Spell Focus (enchantment), Spell Penetration,
Skills Acrobatics +23 (+35 when jumping), Bluff +23, Diplomacy +16, Knowledge (arcana) +20, Knowledge (nature) +15, Knowledge (spirits) +17, Perception +18, Sense Motive +18, Spellcraft +19, Stealth +18, Survival +17, Swim +15; Racial Modifiers +12 Acrobatics when jumping, +4 Survival when tracking by scent
Languages Sylvan; speak with animals (canines only)
SQ change shape (fox, shapechange)
Environment Temperate forests, Spiritworld
Organization solitary
Treasure double
Leap (Ex) A kitsune adds a bonus of +4 plus half its Hit Dice to all Acrobatics checks made to jump, and is always treated as if it had a running start when jumping.

Advanced Kitsune could really make for nasty fights and great BBEGs. The thematic focus for the spells are charms, illusions, speed, lightning, and countermagic. Without see invisible you'd be quite screwed as silent lightning bolts come from nowhere and you always have to be on your guard that your allies aren't turned against you or just space out. And even if you can see invisible, there's still a hastened sorcerer with a big stealth modifier who can cast fog clouds like there is no tomorrow.
With a wizard, this might be a challenging fight. But as a sorcerer the kitsune can spam the same spells over again and draw the fight out almost infinitely. And when it runs out of power, it's probably long gone by the moment you realize it's not longer there.

[Cieyrin]

Kitsune are pretty scary. I'd have thought they'd have better teleportation than just Dim Door but, other than that, work fairly well.

As for Blood Magic, your presentation makes me think of Dark Sun Preservers and Defilers, where the option to defile is always there and quicker than preserving but has real ramifications, especially for higher level defilers. I think the 3E incarnation had a lot to do with metamagic as well.

If you want to put a limit on the number of blood arcana any particular sorcerer/oracle knows, I'd probably link it up with Spellcraft, kinda like how skill tricks have a limit: that is, you can know a number of blood arcana equal to half your ranks in Spellcraft and can learn no more than one at any given level. This opens up room for a Blood Knowledge feat, which like the skill trick feats, lets you learn 2 blood arcana at that level and increase your blood arcana known by 1, which I think nicely rounds out blood magic specialization with Blood Mastery.

I do like that they work similar to archmage high arcana and you may want to borrow from that for putting more blood arcana together. I also like the emphasis on ability burn, which gives value to the Heal skill so that long term healing gains more value for quickening recovery from blood arcana usage.

The only other thing that I can think of off-hand is whether you've had a look at the Rage Prophet, as I think they'd fit rather well in the Barbarian Lands. Not necessarily as a common occurrence but as a lone warrior type that shows his blessing of the spirits directly enhancing his martial prowess. Just something to consider.

[Yora]

Nine tailed kitsune are supposed to be scary. At that stage they are pretty much demigods.

I'll look into 3rd Ed. Defilers, hadn't thought of that.

Rage Prophets are weird. I only looked at the prerequisites and noted that the only way to qualify is a combination of two specific classes that both can't be changed to anything else, which is usually very awful prestige class design. But I'll give the actual mechanics a look.

[Cieyrin]

Nine tailed kitsune are supposed to be scary. At that stage they are pretty much demigods.

Well yeah, not saying they aren't, just that they're pretty much Rakshasa at this point, which are scary on their own.

I'll look into 3rd Ed. Defilers, hadn't thought of that.

It was in one of the Dragon mags. There's also Athas.org but I don't know how they went about it.

Rage Prophets are weird. I only looked at the prerequisites and noted that the only way to qualify is a combination of two specific classes that both can't be changed to anything else, which is usually very awful prestige class design. But I'll give the actual mechanics a look.

You can get Rage via Ranger if that's really annoying but that's pretty high level via an archetype. The entry otherwise is pretty flexible in that you can choose to focus more on Barbarian or Oracle. You could probably generic it for a Sorcerer entry, if that's really a bone in your craw but since it's a RAGE Prophet, it'd be pretty weird without Rage and thus Barbarian.

[Yora]

I have to say I find the class lacking in any real benefits. Some level 0 spell like abilities and dual advancement for rage and mysteries.

I found the defiler rules, which made me think of the german proverb "two fools, one idea". That's indeed very much the same concept except with a different cost you pay.

I think of using defiling for warlocks, the sorcerers who pledge themselves to demons for extra power. You gain the same benefits as from blood magic (though I'd like to have some unique blood and demon effects) but instead of constitution burn, you gain taint.
Though for that I still have to decide on a Taint system.

Expect my first draft to be up later this day.

[Yora]

So here is a draft, but it does still need some work before it can be used.

Taint
Demons and undead have no place in the natural order of things and their mere presence causes a corruption of the life energies of the land and living creatures near them. This corruption is known as Taint, and it warps and twists everything it comes in contact with. Negative energy is tainted life energy in its purest form, so all undead creatures and spells that use negative energy or death effects carry the Taint. Demons are another source of Taint, since their nature is completely different from the natural order of the World of Mortals and the Spiritworld. Even the most well meaning and benevolent demon has this effect on anything it comes in contact with outside the Void. Demons who want to avoid causing damage to mortals usually refrain from passing over from the Void unless absolutely necessary and rather communicate through magic or lesser servants whose smaller life force is less corrupting on the natural world.
Taint is a disturbance in the natural energies of the worlds of Mortals and Spirits and will eventually disappear. However, this process is slow and may take years or even centuries, depending on the strength of the corruption. Places and objects become tainted by their continuous exposure to Taint, which is often found in the lairs of necromancers or the temples of demonic cults. Another common source of Taint are warlocks, sorcerers and more rarely shamans, who channel the powers of the Void to increase the strength of their spells.

Gaining Taint
Characters gain Taint by being exposed to highly tainted places or objects, or by casting spells powered by demonic energy, or by being targeted by such spells.
In places with mild taint, characters have to make a DC 10 Fortitude save for every full day they have been exposed to the taint. In areas of moderate Taint, characters have to make a DC 12 save for every full hour, and in areas of strong Taint a DC 15 save for ever minute. The DC increases by +1 for every interval during which the character stays in the area. On a failed save, a characters Taint score increases by 1. Characters who have never been tainted have a Taint score of 0.
For tainted objects, a character is exposed by having the item in his possession, but he has to make a first check immediately on touching the object, just as if he had been exposed to it for one full interval.

Effects of Taint
A characters Taint manifests as a penalty to his Constitution and Wisdom scores. A character with a Constitution score of 14 and a Wisdom score of 11 who has a Taint score of 3 effectively has a Constitution score of 11 and a Wisdom score of 8. Characters with the Taint Suppression feat take no penalty to Constitution and only half the penalty to Wisdom.
When a character with a Taint score of 1 or higher is reduced to an effective Constitution score of 0, he dies and turns into wight after 1d4 hours. If the Wisdom score falls to 0, the character dies as well and turns into a wraith after 1d4 minutes.

Cleansing Taint
Some spells can reduce a characters Taint score.
Remove curse, remove disease: These spells reduce a character’s taint score by 1 point, but they cannot reduce a taint score below 1.
Restoration: This spell reduces a character’s taint score by 1 point per four caster levels, but it cannot reduce a taint score below 1.
Greater restoration: This spell reduces a character’s taint score by a number of points equal to the caster level of its source, usually powerful spirits or magic springs. Greater restoration can reduce a taint score to 0.

Cleansing entire places is very difficult and requires a long series of difficult and expensive magic rituals. It is only very rarely done and usually tainted places are simply abandoned.

Dark Sorcery
Dark Sorcery is a secret and highly dangerous magical art that draws on the powers of the Void to increase the power of a spellcasters spells. That practitioners of this magic are called dark sorcerers, regardless of if they are sorcerers or one of the rare shamans. The greatest and most immediate threat of dark sorcery is Taint. The energies of the Void are completely alien to the natural order of the physical world and any contact with them corrupts all mortal creatures and spirits. A more insidious threat is the fact that every dark sorcerer eventually attracts the attention of a demon, which often presents itself as an ally and adviser. Those who agree to the demons offerings of power and knowledge are called warlocks and often become the demons most influential agents in the World of Mortals, as well as their priests.
Dark Sorcery is believed to have first been discovered by the naga, who are still among the most common practitioners, even though Warlocks caused the fall and destruction of many of their ancient kingdoms. There are also some lizardfolk and dark elf warlocks, but it's much more rare among spellcasters of other races. It is virtually unknown among gnomes and kaas are far too superstitious to allow any kind of contact with the Void and its creatures, though many call it great Wisdom on their side.

Spellcasters who have 4 ranks in Knowledge (arcana) and Knowledge (demons) can use dark sorcery without any additional prerequisites. Characters with knowledge of dark sorcery can gain any of the following effects by tapping into the powers of the Void.

Dark Sorcery Benefits and Costs
{table=head]Effect | Taint Points Earned
Silent Spell | 1
Still Spell | 1
Heighten Spell | 1 per level
Empower Spell | 3
Extend Spell | 2
Quicken Spell | 4
Maximize Spell | 4
Recover expended spell slot | 3 per spell level
Cast spell without material component | 1 per 500 gp[/table]

Dark sorcery can create the effects of Metamagic Feats without any increase in spell slot level or casting time, but the character gains Taint points according to the table. Taint points are different from a characters Taint score, but can increase it. Every time a spellcaster regains spells while having Taint points, he has to make a Fortitude save with a DC of 10 + the amount of Taint points. If the save fails, the characters Taint score increases by 1. The characters Taint points are then again reduced to 0.

---

The problem is that right now, a spellcaster can simply get his Taint down to 1 with remove curse as if nothing happened. It's a permanent -1 to Will saves and all Wis-based skills, but as long as he doesn't get completely insane, which with Taint Supression would be at Taint score of well over 20, there are no permanent ill effects.

[Steckie]

The problem is that right now, a spellcaster can simply get his Taint down to 1 with remove curse as if nothing happened. It's a permanent -1 to Will saves and all Wis-based skills, but as long as he doesn't get completely insane, which with Taint Supression would be at Taint score of well over 20, there are no permanent ill effects.

Maybe a spellcaster that has 1 taint point or has 1 taint score loses the ability to cast remove curse on himself. Or on everybody.
And if a spellcaster without taint casts remove curse on one with taint, he immediatly senses that he has taint. Even if he casts from a scroll or wand.

That way the taint using spellcaster has to choose between keeping the taint a secret and letting it get higher and higher. Or he tries to suppress it by letting somebody know he's using taint and depending on that person to keep him from going insane.

[SpaceBadger]

I wonder if you might want a different name for one of these types of points, the permanent Taint score and the daily Taint points that might cause increased permanent Taint score. Seems a little confusing. Or would it be more confusing to have different names for closely related stats? Dunno. Maybe call one of them Taint, the other one Corruption or something similar?

[edit] I like the Taint idea overall, and can see that I need something similar for my Swords & Sorcery magic system.

[Omeganaut]

I can see remove curse only taking off one taint score at a time. In addition, there should be a caster level check to succesfully cast that on someone with taint. In fact, all beneficial spells should require a caster level check to be cast on someone with a taint score. I'd also have taint suppression only reduce the constitution penalty by 1/2, like the wisdom is. Make sure you compare and contrast you taint and you blood magic systems, as systems that fit together will work better that systems without sensible relationships to one another.

[Yora]

With the concepts I have in mind, I don't see any big overlaps between blood magic and Taint. Taint is a disturbance in the natural order of living things, while blood magic works perfectly within the natural laws.

[Cieyrin]

I wonder if you might want a different name for one of these types of points, the permanent Taint score and the daily Taint points that might cause increased permanent Taint score. Seems a little confusing. Or would it be more confusing to have different names for closely related stats? Dunno. Maybe call one of them Taint, the other one Corruption or something similar?

[edit] I like the Taint idea overall, and can see that I need something similar for my Swords & Sorcery magic system.

I agree on that, calling it Corruption points leads to less confusion on everybody's part.