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    Default Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    If your GM allows Gate, he deserves what he gets.
    FTFY

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombimode View Post
    If your regard a class feature you get at level 20 as a key section of a class, then you play a different type of D&D then I do (to borrow an expression by Zaq).

    I have currently a level 12 truenamer. He is doing fine. Of course, he doesn't have much in terms of competition: the party members are: a Samurai, a Ninja, a Monk and a Healer, all single classed, all level 12...
    The specific classes don't matter as much as (a) the challenges they face and (b) the gap between them. A group like that might struggle through a premade or challenge campaign, but if the DM is tailoring the obstacles to them they will do just fine. Nobody is really in a position to totally outshine anyone else.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombimode View Post
    I have currently a level 12 truenamer. He is doing fine. Of course, he doesn't have much in terms of competition: the party members are: a Samurai, a Ninja, a Monk and a Healer, all single classed, all level 12...
    Imperious Command Samurai, or regular?

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    Default Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    If your GM allows that to count as a legitimate command, he deserves what he gets.
    How so? As long as its phrased do as to not mention game mechanics, it seems perfectly valid to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."
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    Default Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Qwertystop View Post
    How so? As long as its phrased do as to not mention game mechanics, it seems perfectly valid to me.
    Aside from the fact that you can't phrase it without mentioning game mechanics (if you say something like "do not attempt to resist as I oppress your will", that leaves no definited value of what counts as resisting; a Will save might not count as intentional defiance, and there are other things like spell resistance that the target might not know they don't possess, and might thus refrain from trying unsuccessfully to use), it's pretty much the same as ordering the creature to kill itself. A magical compulsion is used to impress a creature into service, not oblivion. If the spell is capable of causing the target's death, it should generally be written so explicitly.

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    Default Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    The specific classes don't matter as much as (a) the challenges they face and (b) the gap between them. A group like that might struggle through a premade or challenge campaign, but if the DM is tailoring the obstacles to them they will do just fine. Nobody is really in a position to totally outshine anyone else.
    Premade campaign, the Tearing of the Weave trilogy to be specific (Cormyr: Tearing of the Weave, Shadowdale: The Scouring of the Land, and Anauroch: Empire of Shade). The adventures are run pretty much unchanged, at least not tailored to our group. We are doing pretty well actually.

    Quote Originally Posted by rockdeworld View Post
    Imperious Command Samurai, or regular?
    Is this a specific build?
    He has taken Imperious Command and of course has max ranks in Intimidate. If thats all you need to get an Imperious Command Samurai, then he is one.
    Last edited by Zombimode; 2013-01-18 at 11:56 AM.

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    Default Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombimode View Post
    Is this a specific build?
    He has taken Imperious Command and of course has max ranks in Intimidate. If thats all you need to get an Imperious Command Samurai, then he is one.
    There are other parts to demoralize optimization. Primary among them is an armor enchantment called fearsome from the same book as imperious command that is pretty much a given buy as soon as you have the wealth for it. For 5000 gp you get a +5 to intimidate checks and changes demoralization to only take a move action. Oh it also gives you armor spikes if you don't already have them so you can save that precious 50 gp.
    Last edited by nyarlathotep; 2013-01-18 at 12:49 PM.
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    Default Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Aside from the fact that you can't phrase it without mentioning game mechanics (if you say something like "do not attempt to resist as I oppress your will", that leaves no definited value of what counts as resisting; a Will save might not count as intentional defiance, and there are other things like spell resistance that the target might not know they don't possess, and might thus refrain from trying unsuccessfully to use), it's pretty much the same as ordering the creature to kill itself. A magical compulsion is used to impress a creature into service, not oblivion. If the spell is capable of causing the target's death, it should generally be written so explicitly.
    It should be, but it's not. "I order you to lower all defenses and willingly accept the next spell I cast on you" does not touch game mechanics in any way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

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    Default Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    It should be, but it's not. "I order you to lower all defenses and willingly accept the next spell I cast on you" does not touch game mechanics in any way.
    Note to willpell this is only possible because in 3.5 and pathfinder the game explicitly allows you to voluntarily fail your save. Thus it is take as truth that a saving throw even a will save represents some form of conscious effort to resist.
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    Default Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by nyarlathotep View Post
    Note to willpell this is only possible because in 3.5 and pathfinder the game explicitly allows you to voluntarily fail your save. Thus it is take as truth that a saving throw even a will save represents some form of conscious effort to resist.
    It can't possibly be a conscious effort to resist, because if someone casts a Charm on you and you fail the save, you don't know that you made one. It must be reflexive, automatically triggered by the targeting of your mind with hostile magic; it's essentially an immune system, and while you might be able to do things like intentionally exposing yourself to more germs, you can't actually make yourself succumb to a disease. Your body won't allow it, and the same goes for Will saves - they're autonomic defenses with which your non-conscious components will protect the whole of your self even from you.

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    Default Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    It can't possibly be a conscious effort to resist, because if someone casts a Charm on you and you fail the save, you don't know that you made one. It must be reflexive, automatically triggered by the targeting of your mind with hostile magic; it's essentially an immune system, and while you might be able to do things like intentionally exposing yourself to more germs, you can't actually make yourself succumb to a disease. Your body won't allow it, and the same goes for Will saves - they're autonomic defenses with which your non-conscious components will protect the whole of your self even from you.
    Charm Person is also Enchantment and Mind-affecting. You don't know you failed the save because *Your mind is altered by enchantment magic*, so you forget you made one.

    There's a section in the rules detailing voluntarilly failing a save, and another about lowering your spell resistance. Creatures know about these things in-universe.

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    Default Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Well it's not "voluntary" if you're ordered to do it and have no choice about complying (as opposed to complying to avoid an undesired consequence, as with non-magical orders), so it still doesn't work.

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    Default Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Now you're just quibbling. "Voluntary" in that context means that you have the option to do it (and therefore that you can be compelled to take that option, magically or otherwise), not that you are unable to be compelled to do it. All you have to do is order a monster to allow a particular spell to work on it, and it will.

    The broken things here are Gate and the power people use to swap bodies, not the option to choose not to resist a spell. If you really want to argue against it working by RAW, though, I'd point out that a Gated monster remains gated even after you swap bodies with it, and it's ambiguous what happens when the Gate effect ends -- is it its spirit that the Gate spell affixes to, meaning that it disappears along with your old body? Is it its body, meaning that you disappear, new body and all, and end up in whatever extradimensional place you yoinked it from when you cast Gate? Is it both, meaning that its spirit disappears back to wherever it came from, leaving your old body an empty shell, even as the body you swapped for vanishes from around you, leaving you as a disembodied soul?

    My understanding is that if a Gated creature comes with a sword, that sword vanishes when the spell ends; if you cut off a Gated creature's arm, that arm goes away along with the rest of it. It seems logical that even if you swap bodies with it, the body that arrived via Gate is still going to go away when the Gate spell expired. The only question is whether it takes your soul with it or leaves it behind.

    It's one of those things that seems obvious until you think about it. The game doesn't actually have rules for where magical effects are "affixed" to following a body-swap; there's a totally legitimate argument to be made that after you swap bodies with the Gated monster, you are now its slave for the remainder of the spell.
    Last edited by Aquillion; 2013-01-19 at 04:58 AM.

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    Default Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    there's a totally legitimate argument to be made that after you swap bodies with the Gated monster, you are now its slave for the remainder of the spell.
    No there isn't. Since spellcasting travels with the mind and not the body in every single example of body switching, it's quite obvious that the caster is determined by means of soul and not body.

    Regardless, you don't need to keep that body for more than ten minutes, at which point you can let it go.
    Last edited by Flickerdart; 2013-01-19 at 11:25 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

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    Default Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    Now you're just quibbling. "Voluntary" in that context means that you have the option to do it
    No, that is never what "voluntary" means. I would suggest checking a dictionary, but it just came up in a PM conversation that I apparently do not believe all dictionaries can be trusted to give the actual use-meanings of words as they are spoken by language-users. Regardless, "voluntary" means "taken by one's own choice"; if a machine is attached to your arm which forcibly raises it without your own choice, then you did not "voluntarily" raise your arm.

    All you have to do is order a monster to allow a particular spell to work on it, and it will.
    Unless you can order the monster to die and it will drop dead, which is not physically possible for most creatures (IIRC the only real-world creatures who are confirmed to be able to die on command are rabbits), then your spell is not powerful enough to force it to accept a fate-worse-than-death spell without resistance. This goes double when the creature is a literal manifestation of some cosmic force.

    The broken things here are Gate and the power people use to swap bodies, not the option to choose not to resist a spell.
    I disagree. The body-swapping power is a classic psionic trope, so it needs to be available, but it should always be subject to resistance. Gate is a bit more wickety; I don't believe it should work as a complete, irresistable compulsion, but haven't figured out how to word it otherwise. It obviously needs to give you some control over the summoned creature, or using it would be suicide, but as with a lot of spells, the writing is overly minimalist and makes the effect too easy, when there should be a fairly complex subsystem associated with the difficulty of some archmage pitting his will against that of a djinn or demon or something, gradually bending it to service through his indomitable will or establishing some sort of loophole-ridden contract which he must carefully obey. These are classic genre tropes, and it's intolerable that the rules were written so sloppily as to reduce them to an "I win" button.

    My understanding is that if a Gated creature comes with a sword, that sword vanishes when the spell ends; if you cut off a Gated creature's arm, that arm goes away along with the rest of it. It seems logical that even if you swap bodies with it, the body that arrived via Gate is still going to go away when the Gate spell expired. The only question is whether it takes your soul with it or leaves it behind.
    Interesting question, something I'll have to think about.

    It's one of those things that seems obvious until you think about it. The game doesn't actually have rules for where magical effects are "affixed" to following a body-swap.
    Yeah, the game doesn't have a lot of rules it could use, and it irritates me how many players use the absence of a rule to proclaim themselves Wrecker of Games, instead of accepting that the situation cannot be resolved per RAW and thus the DM has all the power to arbitrate it, including making a spot-ruling which he may later revoke if the player is successful in abusing it.

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    Default Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Gate is a bit more wickety; I don't believe it should work as a complete, irresistable compulsion, but haven't figured out how to word it otherwise.
    Quite simple, actually:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gate
    A controlled creature can be commanded to perform a service for you. Such services fall into two categories: immediate tasks and contractual service. Fighting for you in a single battle or taking any other actions that can be accomplished within 1 round per caster level counts as an immediate task; you need not make any agreement or pay any reward for the creature’s help. The creature departs at the end of the spell.

    If you choose to exact a longer or more involved form of service from a called creature,
    you must offer some fair trade in return for that service. The service exacted must be reasonable with respect to the promised favor or reward; see the lesser planar ally spell for appropriate rewards. (Some creatures may want their payment in “livestock” rather than in coin, which could involve complications.) Immediately upon completion of the service, the being is transported to your vicinity, and you must then and there turn over the promised reward. After this is done, the creature is instantly freed to return to its own plane.

    Failure to fulfill the promise to the letter results in your being subjected to service by the creature or by its liege and master, at the very least. At worst, the creature or its kin may attack you.
    Just remove the bolded part. The Planar Binding line already covers the "gradually bending a creature to your will" option,* Gate is for when you need something done now and don't have time for all that 1/day opposed Charisma check nonsense. In which case, under the above revision, you'd better be ready to pay up (or just Dominate the called creature, but to each his own).


    * Though you'll probably want to add a 9th level version with a comparable hit dice cap to Gate.
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    Default Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    It can't possibly be a conscious effort to resist, because if someone casts a Charm on you and you fail the save, you don't know that you made one. It must be reflexive, automatically triggered by the targeting of your mind with hostile magic; it's essentially an immune system, and while you might be able to do things like intentionally exposing yourself to more germs, you can't actually make yourself succumb to a disease. Your body won't allow it, and the same goes for Will saves - they're autonomic defenses with which your non-conscious components will protect the whole of your self even from you.
    Then how do you not have to make will saves against cure spells cast on you? They allow a save but as per the voluntarily failing your save rules you don't bother because you trust your cleric that it will not harm you.
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    Default Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by nyarlathotep View Post
    Then how do you not have to make will saves against cure spells cast on you? They allow a save but as per the voluntarily failing your save rules you don't bother because you trust your cleric that it will not harm you.
    Cure spells are not capable of harming you (unless you're undead). Presumably your subconscious mind, or whatever else governs your instinctive resistances, can understand this, sensing that the incoming influence is Harmless and not resisting it. You can save against such effects, but only intentionally. Whereas any Harmful effect always gets a save unless you voluntarily decline it, and no compulsion can interfere with that "voluntary" part.

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    Default Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Cure spells are not capable of harming you (unless you're undead). Presumably your subconscious mind, or whatever else governs your instinctive resistances, can understand this, sensing that the incoming influence is Harmless and not resisting it. You can save against such effects, but only intentionally. Whereas any Harmful effect always gets a save unless you voluntarily decline it, and no compulsion can interfere with that "voluntary" part.
    No, every time you get affected by a spell, regardless of whether it's harmless or not, you get a save if one is allowed, so you choose to be affected by cure spells or buffs or whatever, there's nothing involuntary about that. Unless you have Spellcraft or some other spell identification ability, you have no idea what anyone is casting on you till its effect kicks in. When you choose not to save, it's generally because you trust the caster, whether that's due to them being an ally and prior experience telling you that not resisting has been beneficial in the past or you've been dominated or compelled by your new 'friend' to allow some effect to target you unresisted, because they wouldn't harm you, now would they? That's just what friends do! How that works out in the end is something else entirely.
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    Default Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    It can't possibly be a conscious effort to resist, because if someone casts a Charm on you and you fail the save, you don't know that you made one.
    False premise. According to the SRD, you DO know that you made a save, though you don't know why.

    A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack. Likewise, if a creature’s saving throw succeeds against a targeted spell you sense that the spell has failed. You do not sense when creatures succeed on saves against effect and area spells.
    Emphasis added.

    Also the spellcraft rules allow you to identify a spell after rolling a saving throw, implying that you are aware on some level that you made one.

    I don't believe there's anything in the Charm Person spell description that contradicts this, so any part of your argument based on the premise that you don't know you made a saving throw is faulty.
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    Default Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    It can't possibly be a conscious effort to resist, because if someone casts a Charm on you and you fail the save, you don't know that you made one. It must be reflexive, automatically triggered by the targeting of your mind with hostile magic; it's essentially an immune system, and while you might be able to do things like intentionally exposing yourself to more germs, you can't actually make yourself succumb to a disease. Your body won't allow it, and the same goes for Will saves - they're autonomic defenses with which your non-conscious components will protect the whole of your self even from you.
    Actually, an unconscious creature does not get a will save. At all. Ever.
    I would hope you deny unconscious and unable-to-react character their reflex saves as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Cure spells are not capable of harming you (unless you're undead). Presumably your subconscious mind, or whatever else governs your instinctive resistances, can understand this, sensing that the incoming influence is Harmless and not resisting it. You can save against such effects, but only intentionally. Whereas any Harmful effect always gets a save unless you voluntarily decline it, and no compulsion can interfere with that "voluntary" part.
    Whether it hurts you is irrelevant. You have to either consciously defend yourself, or consciously let down your guard.

    And beig able to tell on a primal level the spell won't hurt you is bunkum, since you can't identify the spell that way.

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    Default Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by SiuiS View Post
    Actually, an unconscious creature does not get a will save. At all. Ever.
    I disagree - I don't see being willing as the same as not being allowed to make will saves. Consider that it would make no sense for a spell like Nightmare to have a will save if being asleep made it so you couldn't roll one.
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    Default Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    I disagree - I don't see being willing as the same as not being allowed to make will saves. Consider that it would make no sense for a spell like Nightmare to have a will save if being asleep made it so you couldn't roll one.
    I think that's the devs forgetting their own rules again. Like when they give spells areas that cannot fit into their ranges.
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    Default Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by SiuiS View Post
    Actually, an unconscious creature does not get a will save. At all. Ever.
    Citation needed.

    Edit: To further expound on the issue, the srd says that unconscious creatures are automatically considered willing, but "willing" has a very specific meaning concerning spells which is NOT if they get a saving throw or not.

    To Nyarlathotep: I don't see how that breaks the rules. Only the origin point of the spell has to be within range. If my fireball's range is 500 feet and I cast it at 500 feet, it still affects targets at 520feet.
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    Default Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    No, every time you get affected by a spell, regardless of whether it's harmless or not, you get a save if one is allowed, so you choose to be affected by cure spells or buffs or whatever, there's nothing involuntary about that.
    From the SRD: "(harmless) The spell is usually beneficial, not harmful, but a targeted creature can attempt a saving throw if it desires." By default, you *don't* save unless you "desire" to. It doesn't say "The spell is usually beneficial, so a targeted creature usually declines its saving throw", which would be the language to use if saving throws were like spell resistance in this respect.

    Unless you have Spellcraft or some other spell identification ability, you have no idea what anyone is casting on you till its effect kicks in.
    ...Okay, I'll grant you that one as per the RAW, stupid though it is. If you've seen Cure spells cast dozens of previous times, you shouldn't need to keep rolling Spellcraft to see them coming. And the rules don't adjust the check DC based on the commonality of spells, but they obviously should since some spells are exotic while others are positively banal. So this is just one of the (many, a lot of them having to do with the skill system) areas in which the rules are sloppily constructed.

    When you choose not to save, it's generally because you trust the caster, whether that's due to them being an ally and prior experience telling you that not resisting has been beneficial in the past
    Except how would you ever get that experience if you're always resisting?

    or you've been dominated or compelled by your new 'friend' to allow some effect to target you unresisted, because they wouldn't harm you, now would they? That's just what friends do!
    Sounds like someone trying to talk the DM into letting their Beguiler be more powerful to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by SiuiS View Post
    I would hope you deny unconscious and unable-to-react character their reflex saves as well.
    The Reflex save is another of those aspects of the game which is sloppily-constructed. The only place where it makes a whit of sense is with Gaze attacks. Eye movement should be governed by Reflex; dodging a fireball/lightning bolt/dragon breath/etc. should not, unless it's to allow you an immediate-action move out of the blasted area.

    Whether it hurts you is irrelevant. You have to either consciously defend yourself, or consciously let down your guard.
    Perhaps with the nonsensical Spellcraft rules it does work that way, but it really, really shouldn't. Whether the spell is beneficial or harmful or not definitely SHOULD influence whether your body tries to fight it off; when the immune system attacks benign cells, the result is cancer, and the same should apply to whatever mystical defenses it possesses in a fantasy setting.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyarlathotep View Post
    I think that's the devs forgetting their own rules again.
    Or, possibly, all of you are taking the rules more literally than the devs wanted you to...if they didn't apply them consistently, maybe that's because they didn't want players to do so either.

  25. - Top - End - #295
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    From the SRD: "(harmless) The spell is usually beneficial, not harmful, but a targeted creature can attempt a saving throw if it desires." By default, you *don't* save unless you "desire" to. It doesn't say "The spell is usually beneficial, so a targeted creature usually declines its saving throw", which would be the language to use if saving throws were like spell resistance in this respect.
    Unfortunately, from the same srd, in the Saving Throws section: "Generally, when you are subject to an unusual or magical attack, you get a saving throw to avoid or reduce the effect."

    Not "you can choose to make a saving throw," but "you get a saving throw." I *THINK* there was a book that expounded on the saving throws whys and wherefores, but I can't recall which and I'm AFB during the week. Logic would dictate the PHB2, Complete Mage, or Complete Arcane, but logic was never WotC's strong suit. Perhaps there's something stated more clearly in the Rules Compendium, if anyone got that handy?
    Morituri nolumus morit - We who are about to die... don't want to

    "BUT, LORD, WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT FOR THE CARE OF THE REAPERMAN." - Death, "Reaperman"

  26. - Top - End - #296
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    ... Did they remove the Thread Necromancy rules? Because I've seen some people running around with shovels and a lot of empty holes in the ground.
    Last edited by Asheram; 2013-01-21 at 12:31 PM.
    Boats are like nuts, the outside is hard but the inside is usually good to eat.


    And remember, things can always get worse.

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    Psyren's Avatar

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    Default Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Asheram View Post
    ... Did they remove the Thread Necromancy rules? Because I've seen some people running around with shovels and a lot of empty holes in the ground.
    From what I've seen, handbooks are a bit of a grey area - probably because locking them and forcing the creators to repost them from scratch simply because someone had a question would be onerous. I know for instance that I've gotten permission to update my old handbooks past the window.

    I don't know if that applies to anyone posting in them or just the creator but I'm sure Glyphstone or one of the other mods can provide clarification.


    EDIT: I just took a closer look at your avatar - is that a barbarian hugging a troll?
    Last edited by Psyren; 2013-01-21 at 03:55 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Plague Doctor by Crimmy
    Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)

  28. - Top - End - #298
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    tyckspoon's Avatar

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    Default Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by JBento View Post
    To Nyarlathotep: I don't see how that breaks the rules. Only the origin point of the spell has to be within range. If my fireball's range is 500 feet and I cast it at 500 feet, it still affects targets at 520feet.
    Nope.

    A spell’s range is the maximum distance from you that the spell’s effect can occur, as well as the maximum distance at which you can designate the spell’s point of origin. If any portion of the spell’s area would extend beyond this range, that area is wasted.
    Your range is 500 ft? The dude standing 501 feet away can't be touched. The PHB spells are pretty good about keeping this straight, but you can find a number of spells in other books that don't work correctly because the author forgot how Range and Area interact.
    Last edited by tyckspoon; 2013-01-21 at 04:22 PM.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    EDIT: I just took a closer look at your avatar - is that a barbarian hugging a troll?
    "Rule 1. Don't grapple the troll."
    Boats are like nuts, the outside is hard but the inside is usually good to eat.


    And remember, things can always get worse.

  30. - Top - End - #300
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Now, is this (supposed to be) a Truenamers only thread, or does it cover the Truenaming Prestige classes as well?

    Because honestly, I just plain don't get some of them.

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