In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

[Grod_The_Giant]

I'd just like to point out, for purposes of levels 14-19: Rolling a natural 20 is a 5% chance. If you have a 5% chance at a skill check, you have to roll a natural 20 to succeed. So where's the difference between 14 and 15?

I'm guessing 14 is "20+modifiers succeeds," while 15 is "can only succeed if a natural 20 is an auto-success." (Which, as a skill check, it isn't.)

[Kelb_Panthera]

That's worst case scenario though. Add in the headband of intellect and the amulet of the silver tongue at the appropriate levels and see what happens.

Also, given the reliance on a skill check for their primary ability, why on earth wouldn't a truenamer make the utterance of universal aptitude just before the beatstick kicks in the door?

According to MIC that's

7th level for the amulet +5
8th for the headband +2
12th level for the amulet +10
14th for the headband +4
17th for the headband +6

[Psyren]

That's worst case scenario though. Add in the headband of intellect and the amulet of the silver tongue at the appropriate levels and see what happens.

Those items give a good boost, sure. The problem is that (a) these percentages are for your first use of that utterance each day, prior to the LoR effect, and (b) many battles (especially boss fights) tend to be above your CR, further eroding the benefit of buffs to your check.

And even if you optimize from a 5% to a 50% that's still a wasted action every other round, with each success making the next failure more likely.

Also, given the reliance on a skill check for their primary ability, why on earth wouldn't a truenamer make the utterance of universal aptitude just before the beatstick kicks in the door?

Many battles are ambushes on the party, or multiple battles may happen in succession. When the party isn't the one initiating combat, the Truenamer wastes his first round doing nothing but making sure his subsequent rounds are more successful. And since he's likely to want that Utterance in every fight, the LoR is going to hit it hard - he may end up even burning multiple rounds on an attempted UA.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Thanks Tuggyne! I really need to learn how to do that.

As for % chance without item familiar, you lose 5% every level except lvl 8 and 16 where ability modifier raises keep you status quo.

Now lets modify that to reflect the two items I mentioned.

Lvl 1: 65%
Lvl 2: 60%
Lvl 3: 55%
Lvl 4: 50%
Lvl 5: 45%
Lvl 6: 40%
Lvl 7: 60%
Lvl 8: 65%
Lvl 9: 60%
Lvl 10: 55%
Lvl 11: 50%
Lvl 12: 75%
Lvl 13: 70%
Lvl 14: 70%
Lvl 15: 65%
Lvl 16: 65%
Lvl 17: 65%
Lvl 18: 60%
Lvl 19: 55%
Lvl 20: 50%

Universal aptitude is available from level one, increasing every one of those by 25%. Targetting yourself also nets you another 10% since there's absolutely no reason not to target your personal truname.

So that's the ugly truth of truenaming. Each lvl up reduces your efficiency by 5% unless you increase it through outside means, and even those increases will decrease each level as well. The only non- bandaid fix is item familiar or something like it. On a side note, you can see just how gear dependent they are. I'm not sure if even a naked fighter is as impaired as a naked true namer.

Naked fighter has his to hit rising at exactly the same rate as average AC before feats like weapon focus, he starts with around a 55% chance to hit and by 20 it make 85%, barring creatures with unsually high AC.

[Flickerdart]

Kelb: That is incredibly misleading. You are comparing a Truenamer's optimal situation (targetting self with truespeech after UA) to a Fighter's regular situation (targetting another creature). In an apples to apples comparison (Fighter attacking himself) you will find that he hits 100% of the time.

[Tr011]

I'm not sure who started with those weird numbers, but for level 20, you should have a +70 with ease. What you could have is this:

Spoiler

Show

Base int 17 or 18 + 5 from levels + 5 from tomes + 3 from aging (there are several ways not to take the penalties) + 12 from Extract Gift (FC1) spell performed by an NPC or other PC that knows his magic. This totals in a +16 int modifier even without the +5 from Veccna artifacts, the +2 alchemistical bonus from Mushroom Powder (BoVD), the +10 from the horseshoes (SS), the +4 profane from a Fiend of Possession (FF) or any +int race.

Then again, you have your 23 ranks and might take some feats, like Skill Focus for +3, Keen Intellect (OA) for +1, Flexible Mind (#326) for +1 or Shape Soulmeld for a +1 luck bonus.
You may get the Amulet of the Tongue for a +10 enhancement bonus (ToM), any item with +20 competence to Truenaming (there are also tons of other ways to get competence bonuses if this wouldn't be allowed), then you might get an insight bonus, I'm not too sure about any premade-item for this, but there are spells with up to a +25 insight bonus to skill checks. If no such spell can be made into an item, just get an item to get the insight bonus at least once a day when you need it.
Also, you should get yourself a moral bonus. Heroism grants +2 and Greater Heroism even +4.
A luck bonus of +1 can be gained by buying the Luck Stone from the DMG.
A Masterwork item gives +2 circumstance, stacking with the +4 circumstance you might get from casting on yourself.
In CC there is this guild for a +10 bonus to truenaming, also Illumians get +2 to int-based checks. And let's not talk about marshals, they might get your checks out of the roof.

So how can anyone possibly make a serious build at level 20 without reaching +66 at least? Of course, +66 isn't really much given the DCs of casting your utterance for the third time, quickened and without allowing SR, highened in level by one because it's still active on your companion, enlarged for more range at that CR 23 enemy... that would be a DC of 101. But the regular DCs are IMO really low.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Kelb: That is incredibly misleading. You are comparing a Truenamer's optimal situation (targetting self with truespeech after UA) to a Fighter's regular situation (targetting another creature). In an apples to apples comparison (Fighter attacking himself) you will find that he hits 100% of the time.

Those numbers are far from optimal. They're the same set of numbers that bonzai gave adjusted for the headband of intellect and the amulet of the silver tongue only. No temporary buffs, no self-targetting, no optimization tricks; just ranks, skill focus, the items listed and the int modifer from starting at 16.

As I said in the quoted post. You -can- adjust each of those up by as much as 35% if you can get off UA and target yourself. Getting more isn't terribly difficult either. Start as a race with an intelligence bonus and max it out from go for another 10%. Buy a luckstone or a pale green prism ioun stone for another 5%. Aquiring tome of understanding for up to another 15%. That's just in core. There's nothing tricky to making those DC's a non-issue.

The fighter hitting himself isn't even a valid point of comparison since there's nothing the fighter can target himself with that isn't actively harming himself.

[Psyren]

Base int 17 or 18 + 5 from levels + 5 from tomes + 3 from aging (there are several ways not to take the penalties) + 12 from Extract Gift (FC1) spell performed by an NPC or other PC that knows his magic. This totals in a +16 int modifier even without the +5 from Veccna artifacts, the +2 alchemistical bonus from Mushroom Powder (BoVD), the +10 from the horseshoes (SS), the +4 profane from a Fiend of Possession (FF) or any +int race.

The red parts are the problem with this class; that's a level of optimization that simply can't be assumed in most games. I'd much rather simply use a fix than jump through (or allow) all those hoops.

And the horseshoe debate hasn't quite been settled either.

[Answerer]

Yeah, anything more than 18 base + 2 racial + 6 enhancement + 5 levels + 5 inherent = 36 is not something I consider reasonable for most ability scores, particularly mental ones.

[Ivellius]

I have a question that I didn't notice answered explicitly. Maybe I just missed it.

Is there a consensus on whether Reversed Utterances count as the same Utterance for the purposes of the Law of Resistance? The Law of Sequence specifically calls out that it does, which makes me think that the lack of a similar mention would mean that they don't. I wanted forum feedback, however.

[Psyren]

I have a question that I didn't notice answered explicitly. Maybe I just missed it.

Is there a consensus on whether Reversed Utterances count as the same Utterance for the purposes of the Law of Resistance? The Law of Sequence specifically calls out that it does, which makes me think that the lack of a similar mention would mean that they don't. I wanted forum feedback, however.

They do; that's not the contentious one.

The one I think you're thinking of is whether heightened utterances count for the LoR. The ambiguity comes from the fact that the text references "higher level utterances" - e.g. referring to Greater Knight's Puissance being different from Knight's Puissance or Lesser Word of Nurturing being different from Minor Word of Nurturing. But arguably, this can also refer to the ability Truenamers have to heighten their utterance levels (thereby e.g. bypassing a Globe of Invulnerability) by voluntarily increasing the Truespeak check. So some DMs allow you to bypass the LoR/LoS by heightening the utterance you want to use and trying again. In a case where the LoR has made it so the DC of the base one is higher than the DC of the heightened one it could be possible that doing the latter is more cost-effective.

[Flickerdart]

The fighter hitting himself isn't even a valid point of comparison since there's nothing the fighter can target himself with that isn't actively harming himself.

Taking Truenamer levels counts as actively harming yourself, because you're dooming yourself to having to stand there and target yourself with utterances instead of actually doing something.

[Doxkid]

...Does that mean you can Iron Heart Surge your Truenamer levels?

[Psyren]

...Does that mean you can Iron Heart Surge your Truenamer levels?

Hey, it works with Monk

[Kazyan]

...Does that mean you can Iron Heart Surge your Truenamer levels?

Not a "condition", no matter how you slice it.

[Flickerdart]

Not a "condition", no matter how you slice it.

Are you or someone you love suffering from Truenamitis? Do you experience frustration, uselessness, and poorly edited abilities? Studies have shown that a hearty surge of iron in your diet can make these symptoms a thing of the past. Ask your doctor if IHS is right for you.

[Doxkid]

Warning!: Use of Iron Heart Surge man result in a change of political ideals, dimension, alignment, feat choice, friend choice or bloodline. Poor reading of this ability may also result in removal of buffs or conditions.

Do not Iron Heart Surge during an existential crisis. Do not twist and tug upon the strings of the universe while Iron Heart Surging.

If you experience an Iron Heart Surge lasting more than four hours, please consult a Tier one class; if you cannot find a Tier 1 class, Iron Heart Surge yourself into being a Tier one class and then correct the problem yourself.

[Kazyan]

Okay, you two win.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Taking Truenamer levels counts as actively harming yourself, because you're dooming yourself to having to stand there and target yourself with utterances instead of actually doing something.

And back to mindlessly hating on the class.

[Flickerdart]

There's nothing mindless about hating on a class whose greatest proponent precedes every equation with "If you have UA up and target yourself".

[Kelb_Panthera]

There's nothing mindless about hating on a class whose greatest proponent precedes every equation with "If you have UA up and target yourself".

I'm not its greatest proponent and I don't preceed anything with UA and self targetting. I mention that one is a readily available boost if you have a moment to activate it, and the other is something you'll do often enough anyway; both of which are true. {Scrubbed}

[speeddemon]

The truenamer does have a lot of neat tricks and abilities (many of which are in this guide) and can be a bit of fun to play as. I also believe that the class can be played without the use of item familiar and still be viable. Assuming an Int score of 36 at level 20 with 23 skill ranks you have 36 total. Add in a +2 masterwork tool, amulet of silver tounge, join the paragnostic assembly, and get a +30 ring of truespeak and you get a score of +88 to all truespeak checks. That will get you any CR 20 monster even using quickened a few times, less with stuff like ignoring SR and whatnot, but still very considerable. And all done without anything that sticks out as mega cheesey and sticking to just core and tome of magic (plus CC for paragnostic assembly). So yeah, you have to apply band aids, but there is nothng stopping you from smacking a ton on and calling it a day. You are right about a truenamer without items, they're kinda completely pathetic.

Still even with all that said, I'm under no obligation not to take an item familiar, so I expect I will do so as soon as I reasonably can. The only problem is finding out when that is. As I said before the utterances really start to run thin about 4th and 5th utterance level compared to what other classes are doing, and I still want to be able to participate well in the party. Therefore I need a way to improve myself outside of just what the class has to offer, yet still use it in a way that can meld with and allow me to use my class abilities in tandem. The full attack Splitting bow w/ a quickened utterance once a turn allows me to do that well (plus I love to gish it up ). I do think that by level 9 however, I will be trading in my extend utterance for that feat. If not then, then I'll definetly get it at 12th.

Also I loved the stuff about about IHS . While no one has it in my group, we always joke that we'll use it to end the ocean.

[Bonzai]

I'm not sure who started with those weird numbers, but for level 20, you should have a +70 with ease.

The point of the chart was to see what a naked true namer could do, plot the effects of item familiar, and to see how bad it would be without it. Items were deliberately not included, as it would subject to DM discression, be unchartable, and would effect builds with item familiar and without the same anyways. What it showed me was that barring improvements in gear, a true namer suffers a 5% decrease in performance, excluding those levels that see your ability modifyer increase.

Sure, a DM may allow master work tools, and + true speak items, but that is situational and not always open to everyone. Yes, universal aptitude helps, and is available to every one, but you have to burn an action and succeed on the check first.

Still either way, my point stands. Don't play a true namer unless you have a DM willing to work with you, such as allowing custom items or feats.

[Sauron1209]

I'm not sure if anyone saw this, but if you read "transmute weapon" it clearly says that the weapon becomes any material you wish. it never says that this has to be a material that weapons can be made from, so you can technically say "your sword is made of cheese." and thus it is so. Absolutely not RAI, but may have some hilarious RAW effects.

[Venger]

I'm not sure if anyone saw this, but if you read "transmute weapon" it clearly says that the weapon becomes any material you wish. it never says that this has to be a material that weapons can be made from, so you can technically say "your sword is made of cheese." and thus it is so. Absolutely not RAI, but may have some hilarious RAW effects.

>transmute to thinaun
>win dnd

[RaggedAngel]

>transmute to thinaun
>win dnd

I'm not familiar with that, but it sounds interesting. What does it do?

[Doxkid]

It eats souls. Probably a few other things, but that's the only thing about it I've ever cared about.

[Flickerdart]

>transmute to thinaun
>win dnd

By the time you get that utterance, you can just buy a thinaun weapon.

[Aquillion]

By the time you get that utterance, you can just buy a thinaun weapon.

I think they're suggesting using it as a money exploit, since thinaun is so valuable. Of course, if you're going to break the economy, there are ways to do it much earlier on.

[Qwertystop]

No, it's at the beginning of the thread, at the bottom of the Naughty Words section. It works like this:

The transmutation has a duration. You turn it into thinaun, take a soul. The sword stops being thinaun when the duration wears off, but the sword isn't actually destroyed (the condition thinaun gives for releasing it). So what happens to the soul?