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    RogueGuy

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    Default Non-manifester Psyche-flavoured Class [3.5, Base]

    The Mentat

    "Your mind is a wonderful computing device flexible enough to handle any algorithm, complex enough to keep track of algebraic strings to a level higher than any silicon based chip could achieve. Alas, you're lazy as hell." - Josog, Mentat, to his disciple

    Mentats are individuals who trained their minds to work like machines, gaining sizable benefits from their greatly increased perception and cognition, and also developing psychic powers of their own by means of projecting their own essence in various ways.

    Organization: Mentats are rare and usually work alone, as high advisors of nobles most of the time. There is no single great organization of mentats, and an actual school training hundreds of them would be a waste of resources, seeing that, in the best case, no more than one or two students a generation would ever graduate.

    Adventuring: Mentats adventure for the same reasons as anybody else does, be it pillages, scavenges, raids, missives, cliche dragon hunting etc., he just has some rather unique tools for the trade.

    Stats: Mentats have Int as their main attribute, which their class progression actually increases independently. They should also spare a point or two for Wisdom, as a secondary ability, and a possible source of sturdiness.

    Race: Normally races that have an Int penalty shouldn't produce Mentats, but there have been notable half-Orc exceptions to this. The gnomes are those who most often choose to embrace this path.

    Alignment: Any lawful.

    Starting Age: Complex+d10
    Starting Gold: as psion
    HD: d6

    Class Skills: Appraise, Autohypnosis, Bluff, Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Diplomacy, Disable Device, Disguise, Forgery, Gather Information, Knowledge (all), Listen, Perform, Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, Speak Language, Spot, UMD, UPD
    Skill Points per level: 6 + Int mod (x4 at 1st level)

    Mentat
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    | Betterment, Backlash, Overspecialization

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    | Immediate Familiarization

    3rd|
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    | Reactive Shield + 1

    4th|
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    | Sudden Relocation, Placebo

    5th|
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    | +1 Int

    6th|
    +4
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    | Burden, Placebo, Reactive Shield + 2

    7th|
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    | Projected Blow, Perfect Memory

    8th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +2
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    | Perfect Sentience, Placebo

    9th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +3
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    | Perfect Influence, Reactive Shield + 3

    10th|
    +7/+2
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    | +1 Int, Placebo

    11th|
    +8/+3
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |
    +7
    | Ghost Strike

    12th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    | Reactive Shield + 4, Placebo

    13th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |
    +8
    | Mental Copy

    14th|
    +10/+5
    |
    +4
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    | Placebo

    15th|
    +11/+6/+1
    |
    +5
    |
    +9
    |
    +9
    | +1 Int, Reactive Shield + 5

    16th|
    +12/+7/+2
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |
    +9
    | Placebo, Mind Fused With Matter

    17th|
    +12/+7/+2
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |
    +10
    | Voices of the Dead Ancestry

    18th|
    +13/+8/+3
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    | Reactive Shield + 6, Placebo

    19th|
    +14/+9/+4
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |
    +11
    | Computing Aura

    20th|
    +15/+10/+5
    |
    +6
    |
    +12
    |
    +12
    | +1 Int, Placebo, Extreme Rationality

    [/table]

    Class Features

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A Mentat is proficient with the club, dagger, heavy crossbow, light crossbow, and the shortsword. He is also proficient with light armor and no shields.

    Betterment: The Mentat knows that there is always room for improvement, and handles himself to this respect. Every time he levels, he may either receive 2 skill points less to increase his Strain threshold by 1, or give up his increase in Strain threshold for the level to add his Wis mod to HD. He may not do both.

    Overspecialization: The Mentat has to allocate a lot of time and energy to his studies, which makes multiclassing much more tricky. As long as you are multiclassing, and Mentat is NOT the class in which you have the highest number of levels, your Strain threshold is halved and rounded down.

    Backlash (Ex): The Mentat is still a mortal being with limits, and cannot strain his mind infinitely. Every time he uses a class feature that would have him gain Strain points, he must make a Fortitude Save against a DC of 10 + Strain points / 2 AND a Will Save against a DC of 15 + the Strain cost of the class feature x 2. If he fails the Fortitude Save, he takes 1d10 untyped damage. If he fails the Will Save, he takes 1 Wisdom damage and is stunned for 1 round. If he fails both, he takes xd10 untyped damage, where x is the Strain cost of the class feature, takes 1d4 Wisdom damage, and is stunned for 1 round. Either way, the Wisdom damage is healed at a rate of 1 per day. However, if the Mentat is below his Strain threshold, no backlash occurs. This threshold starts at 1, and increases by 1 per level, being also affected by Betterment and Overspecialization. Also, add your Int mod to your Strain threshold. The only way to get rid of Strain is by sleeping for 8 hours.

    Please note: just because a Mentat's ability backlashes, doesn't mean it fails.

    Immediate Familiarization (Ex): A Mentat may train with any melee weapon (simple, martial or exotic) for 1 hour to become proficient with it, no drawback. He is only proficient with that particular weapon, not with that weapon type (therefore, he is not treated as proficient with other weapons that look exactly the same). By gaining 1 Strain, he may change the duration to a full round action.

    Reactive Shield: A Mentat carries a (mundane) device that produces a force shield around him whenever he is struck with enough force. It weighs no more than 5 pounds and is carried as a belt. It cannot be sundered, and it cannot be enhanced.* This adds a bonus to AC equal to Class Level/3, but does not always work. In the case of ranged attacks, it works only if the shooter receives no range penalty. In the case of melee attacks, it works only if the attack deals 20 or more damage. In the case of spells, it only works if spells have the acid, air, cold, earth, force, sonic, or water descriptors. The shield needs recharging, though. To have it usable for 24 hours, you must either zap it with an electric spell of at least Level 5, or the Mentat must channel his mental power into it, gaining 2 Strain points. Channeling is a full round action.

    Additionally, the reactive shield repels and damages anything moving too fast towards the Mentat. Any enemy charging or bull rushing him, or simply attacking him after running whatever distance, takes damage equal to double the bonus to AC.

    Reactive shield works even against foes that ignore armor, like incorporeals.

    *Clarification: this isn't a specific item crafted by the Mentat. As long as he wears a belt, any belt, it can use it as focus for the Reactive Shield class feature.

    Sudden Relocation (Psi): By gaining 1 Strain per relocation, a Mentat may, anytime and up to Int mod times during his turn, teleport 5 feet in any direction, including upwards and downwards. This is a free action that can be taken between the hits in a full attack, and does not cause AoO. It is always accurate, line of sight with the destination is not required, and is immune to effects that ban astral travel, such as Dimensional Lock. Also, he retains momentum as if he moved that distance, so if by relocating the Mentat comes next to an opponent, that opponent takes damage equal to double the AC bonus of Reactive Shield (IF the shield is active, that is).

    Placebo: Starting at 4th level, and every even level afterward (6th, 8th, 10th etc.) the Mentat may learn a Placebo.

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    Deny Disease
    Requirements: none
    Action: nonaction / Immediate Action that triggers AoO
    Cost: none / +1 Strain
    Range: self / touch
    Effect: Once per day, you may choose to ignore the effects of a disease when it forces you to roll a Fortitude save, as if you instantly won it. An unlimited number of times per day, when one of your allies has to roll a Fortitude save to fight off disease, you can touch him as an Immediate Action, gaining 1 Strain, to let him use your Will Save instead of his Fort Save.

    Deny Poison
    Requirements: none
    Action: nonaction / Immediate Action that triggers AoO
    Cost: none / +1 Strain
    Range: self / touch
    Effect: Once per day, you may choose to ignore the effects of a poison when it forces you to roll a Fortitude save, as if you instantly won it. An unlimited number of times per day, when one of your allies has to roll a Fortitude save to fight off poison, you can touch him as an Immediate Action, gaining 1 Strain, to let him use your Will Save instead of his Fort Save.

    Deny Temperature
    Requirements: none
    Action: Full Round / Free Action
    Cost: +1 Strain / hour*(see effect)
    Range: self
    Effect: You passively shrug off the influence of temperature. Suppressing this ability is a full round action, and reactivating it is a free action. While this ability is active, the weather seems like it is 25 degrees closer to normal (70 degrees is normal, if the difference between outside temperature and 70 is lower than 25, then treat the temperature as simply being 70).

    Deny Sustenance
    Requirements: none
    Action: nonaction
    Cost: +1 Strain
    Range: self
    Effect: You are treated as if you fulfilled your need for food and drink for the day. This placebo can only be used right after you wake up.

    Deny Anatomy
    Requirements: two other Deny placebos learned
    Action: nonaction
    Cost: none
    Range: self
    Effect: Int mod times per day, you can instantly win Fort Saves without rolling.

    Deny Hydration
    Requirements: Deny Sustenance, 1 other Deny placebo plearned
    Action: passive
    Cost: none
    Range: self
    Effect: You no longer need to drink water.

    Coolheaded
    Requirements: none
    Action: passive / nonaction
    Cost: none / +2 Strain
    Range: self
    Effect: If you are affected by an effect that would make you become Shaken, Frightened, or Panicked, it lasts 1 round less. You can't reduce the duration to zero by doing so. You can reduce the effect by a further round by gaining 2 Strain (you CAN reduce the duration to zero by doing this).

    Unyielding
    Requirements: Coolheaded
    Action: nonaction
    Cost: +1/2 Strain
    Range: self
    Effect: Whenever you are Frightened, you can gain 1 Strain to be shaken instead. Whenever you are Panicked, you can gain 1 Strain to become Frightened, or 2 Strain to become shaken instead.

    Overcoming Self-conservation
    Requirements: Unyielding
    Action: passive
    Cost: none
    Range: self
    Effect: You are immune to fear effects.

    Boost of Confidence
    Requirements: none
    Action: Standard
    Cost: +1 Strain
    Range: self / 30 feet
    Effect: The target gains a Morale bonus to all rolls involving a d20 (skill checks, attacks, saves, unique abilities etc) equal to your Int mod/2 for Int mod rounds, OR equal to your Int mod for Int mod/2 rounds. Does not stack with itself, neither in duration nor in effect.

    Aura of Confidence
    Requirements: Boost of Confidence
    Action: passive
    Cost: none
    Range: Int mod*10 feet spread
    Effect: You and all your allies in a sphere with a radius equal to your Int mod*10 feet gain a Morale bonus to all rolls involving a d20 equal to your Int mod/4 rounded up.

    Assured Success
    Requirements: Aura of Confidence
    Action: passive
    Cost: none
    Range: self
    Effect: On saves and attack rolls, you no longer fail on a natural 1, and you instantly succeed on a natural 19 (you do NOT, however, threaten a critical at 19, unless otherwise stated by your weapon).

    Normalizing Will
    Requirements: none
    Action: passive
    Cost: none
    Range: self
    Effect: You gain SR equal to your Class Level, which stacks with any other sources.

    Disbelieve the Supernatural
    Requirements: none
    Action: passive
    Cost: none
    Range: self
    Effect: You gain 5+Int mod SR, which stacks with any other sources.

    Stubborn Ignorance
    Requirements: Normalizing Will, Disbelieve the Supernatural
    Action: nonaction
    Cost: variable positive
    Range: self
    Effect: Whenever you are struck by a spell, you may gain x Strain to increase your SR by 2x. X is equal to your Int mod at most.

    Will to Survive
    Requirements: none
    Action: full round
    Cost: +2 Strain
    Range: self
    Effect: Whenever you are reduced below 0 hit points, you may gain to Strain to instantly get back to -1 and become stable. If you are already below 0, and take damage, you may not use this ability.

    Comatose
    Requirements: Will to Survive
    Action: passive
    Cost: none
    Range: self
    Effect: You may take this placebo several times. Every time, it reduces the number of negative hit points you must have to die by 10 (-20, then -30, etc). If you are below -10 hit points, you gain Fast Healing 2 (this does not improve by taking the placebo several times).

    Stray Knowledge
    Requirements: none
    Action: none
    Cost: none
    Range: none
    Effect: This placebo does nothing.

    Bardic Knowledge
    Requirements: Stray Knowledge
    Action: standard
    Cost: +1 Strain
    Range: self
    Effect: Just like the the bard class feature, except using it makes you gain 1 Strain.

    Liberating Pain
    Requirements: none
    Action: standard
    Cost: -1 Strain
    Range: self
    Effect: You take 2d10 damage, and reduce your Strain by 1. Then, for Int mod rounds, add d10 to all your damage rolls.

    Martyr
    Requirements: Liberating Pain
    Action: full round / free
    Cost: -1 Strain / round
    Range: self
    Effect: You take 1d10 damage per round, add d6 to your damage rolls, and reduce your Strain by 1 per round.


    At 5th level and every class level divisible by 5 afterwards, the Mentat gains a +1 boost to Intelligence.

    Burden (Psi): A Mentat can influence an opponent so as to make him believe he is in a far worse situation than he actually is. Whenever a Mentat strikes an opponent and deals lethal damage, you may, on your next round and as a Free action that makes you gain 1 Strain, +1 for every 3 HD the opponent has over you, make that same opponent receive the same amount of nonlethal damage. Creatures naturally immune to nonlethal damage are immune to this as well.

    Projected Blow (Psi): A Mentat of level 7 learns to produce meager mental constructs to extend his attacks. By gaining 1 Strain, when making a standard or full attack, he can use his melee weapons at double range. If he does so, his weapons are treated as Force weapons, and he loses any benefit derived from having his weapons crafted out of a special material. (so, for instance, you lose the Cold Iron, you keep the Vorpal)

    Perfect Memory (Ex): By gaining 1 Strain, a Mentat can clearly and explicitly narrate or write about anything that happened around him for 24 hours. So, for instance, if he read a book in a day, he can copy every single page of it the next day, from memory, and if he saw someone, he can make an incredibly realistic portrait of that person.

    Perfect Sentience (Psi): Once per level starting at level 8, a Mentat may learn one Clearsentience power. He may only learn powers that he could learn as a Psion of his level, with his current stats. The DC is Int based. He manifests them as psi-like abilities. The Strain cost, however, is independent of the level of the powers: it is simply equal to the number of powers the Mentat used during the day before it (so the first power grants no strain, the second grants 1, the third 2, etc). A Mentat may manifest any power he knows only once per day.

    Perfect Influence (Sp): A Mentat learns to generate various force objects with his thoughts. Starting at level 9, and ever uneven level afterward, a Mentat may learn 1 sor/wiz spell with the Force descriptor. He may only learn spells that he could learn as a Sorcerer of his level, with his current stats, except using Int instead of Cha for both learning spells and save DC. He casts them as spell-like abilities. The Strain cost, however, is independent on the level of the spells: it is simply equal to the number of spells the Mentat used during the day before it +1 (first spell grants 1 strain, second grants 2, etc). A Mentat may cast any spell he knows only once per day.

    Ghost Strike (Psi): By gaining 2 Strain, a level 11 Mentat can generate a full, yet ephemeral, shadowy version of himself on a whim. Whenever he attacks as a standard action, he may choose to, as a swift action, land another attack on any opponent adjacent to either himself or his first target. This second attack is done at a -5 attack penalty from the first one, and is either ghostly (ignores armor bonus to AC) or force-based. This second attack cannot slay the foe, and cannot land a critical. Any effect that may be incurred due to the second attack (burning yourself by attacking a fire elemental, or sundering your weapon on hard skin, or being Disintegrated by a Blackball if you're feeling brave) does not apply. You may use Ghost Strike as an Immediate Action while performing an AoO instead, but you will gain 3 Strain.

    Mental Copy (Psi): You generate a replica of yourself made of force. Creating and dismissing a mental copy is a standard action. Creating a mental copy grants no disadvantage, but dismissing one increases your Strain by 1 and keeping it manifested increases your Strain by 1 per hour. You may only have one Mental Copy. The Mental Copy is exactly like you in every aspect, except as explained below:

    - A Mental Copy does not incur penalties to Strength and Dexterity due to aging. Regardless of your age, do not apply them.
    - A Mental Copy is immune to damage from Force effects, and its melee attacks are treated as Force based.
    - The Magical Items duplicated when creating a Mental Copy lose their magical effects (masterworks remain masterworks), except for those that offer passive bonuses (like rings). If any belonging of a Mental Copy would stop being in contact with it, it vanishes (this means that Mental Copies can only use Longbows and other similar weapons at point blank).
    - A Mental Copy does not have HD or a Constitution Score. Instead of those, whenever the mental copy receives lethal OR nonlethal damage, it vanishes. If a Mental Copy vanishes, the Mentat gains 1 Strain.
    - A Mental Copy still has all spell-like, psi-like, extraordinary and supernatural abilities of the Mentat. It can use abilities with an XP cost normally, except the Mentat pays the cost, and it can use abilities that accumulate Strain. In this case, both the Mentat AND the Mental Copy gain that much strain.
    - A Mental Copy does not have all senses, it has only normal vision. However, if within line of sight of the Mentat, it perceives all that the Mentat perceives. The Mentat and his Mental Copy communicate telepathically, it is not as immersive for both of them however. The Mentat may only ask and receive questions and issue commands as in normal speaking, and see through the Mental Copy's eyes.

    Mind Fused With Matter (Su): A level 16 Mentat learns to force reality to act on behalf of his perception. Once per turn, as a free action increasing Strain by 1 per mile rounded up, a Mentat may transport his body wherever his Mental Copy is, the Mental Copy is destroyed. For this ability to work, only the Mental Copy must not be in an antimagic or antipsionic field. The state of the Mentat is irrelevant, as long as he is conscious.

    Voices of the Dead Ancestry (Su): Recalling the memories of his long dead ancestors, a level 17 Mentat can burrow their skills and experience. Using this ability takes 1 minute. Afterwards, also for 1 minute, add your Wis mod OR 5, whichever is lower, to your manifester level for the purpose of Clairsentience and to all your trained skills.

    Computing Aura (Su): Starting from level 19, knowledge starts passively seeping out of the Mentat. Everyone in a 60 foot spread centered on him gains a Competence bonus equal to his Int mod to all their trained skills, gains the Backlash ability, gains a Strain threshold equal to a third of the Mentat's rounded down, and gains 1 Strain every time they make a Skill check. Dismissing and recalling this effect is a full round action, and subjects within it can't simply not want to be affected by it. The Mentat may choose specific targets to not be affected by this aura, but gains 1 Strain for each of those, per hour.

    Extreme Rationality (Ex): A level 20 Mentat has improved his logic and cognition to such levels that he is completely beyond the understanding of any other sentient being. Whenever it is more beneficial to him, he may treat himself as Mindless. Additionally, he gains an Insight bonus to attack equal to the number of rounds that have passes since the start of an encounter, as he is able to analyze his foes in great detail.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    nonsi's Avatar

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    Default Re: Non-manifester Psyche-flavoured Class [3.5, Base]

    Although not finished yet, something immediately irks the eye.

    >> Placebo: Starting at 4th level, and every even level afterward (6th, 8th,
    >> 10th etc.) the Mentat is allowed to either learn a Placebo, or change two of
    >> his existing placebos into weaker ones.
    Why downgrade ?
    Just allow retraining whenever (or at least every other level when) a mentat doesn't gain Placebo.


    EDIT: also, lose the "but does not always work". it will needlessly make your game more cumbersome and lead to needless arguments.
    Just make it deflection bonus. This will not make this class broken and will spare you a lot of headache.

    Also, what makes fire ignore this shield ?
    (I don't remember that one from the book)
    Last edited by nonsi; 2011-09-05 at 11:27 AM.

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    Default Re: Non-manifester Psyche-flavoured Class [3.5, Base]

    Reactive Shield is not a class feature. It is a magic item, which is treated (unfairly) as a class feature. It would be like if I made a class that automatically gained a castle at 10th level, or someone wrote a poem about me at 6th level; it makes no sense, & is not an innate part of my character. What's to stop someone from taking my shield? Can I give my shield to someone else? This needs to be refluffed that it is a inherent part of the character's person. As it is, it cannot be taken seriously.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Non-manifester Psyche-flavoured Class [3.5, Base]

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    Although not finished yet, something immediately irks the eye.

    >> Placebo: Starting at 4th level, and every even level afterward (6th, 8th,
    >> 10th etc.) the Mentat is allowed to either learn a Placebo, or change two of
    >> his existing placebos into weaker ones.
    Why downgrade ?
    Just allow retraining whenever (or at least every other level when) a mentat doesn't gain Placebo.
    Meh, probably. Still thinking about it.

    EDIT: also, lose the "but does not always work". it will needlessly make your game more cumbersome and lead to needless arguments.
    Just make it deflection bonus.
    I explained exactly when it doesn't work. So arguments shouldn't exist.

    Also, what makes fire ignore this shield ?
    Fire is a static local increase in temperature, definitely not what would trigger a quick blink of the shield (Fireball does not deal bludgeoning damage when hitting the target after all). I would rather remove acid than add fire.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeta Kai View Post
    Reactive Shield is not a class feature. It is a magic item, which is treated (unfairly) as a class feature. It would be like if I made a class that automatically gained a castle at 10th level, or someone wrote a poem about me at 6th level; it makes no sense, & is not an innate part of my character. What's to stop someone from taking my shield? Can I give my shield to someone else? This needs to be refluffed that it is a inherent part of the character's person. As it is, it cannot be taken seriously.
    Someone CAN take your shield, it will just do crap for him. Since it's fueled by, dunno...YOUR thought power?

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    Default Re: Non-manifester Psyche-flavoured Class [3.5, Base]

    While I like this class, I'm inclined to agree with Zeta Kai about the reactive shield. Give them a scaling deflection bonus to AC, maybe toss in some resistances and immunities and call it a day. I'll examine this class more thoroughly once you have the Placebos up.
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    Default Re: Non-manifester Psyche-flavoured Class [3.5, Base]

    Quote Originally Posted by Phosphate View Post
    Someone CAN take your shield, it will just do crap for him. Since it's fueled by, dunno...YOUR thought power?
    It's still a Thing, & a Thing is NOT a class feature. Ever.

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    Default Re: Non-manifester Psyche-flavoured Class [3.5, Base]

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeta Kai View Post
    It's still a Thing, & a Thing is NOT a class feature. Ever.
    A wizard's automatically-updating spellbook is close. An elf also miraculously learns his cultural weapon proficiencies even if he was raised by gnomes. That's not to say that it should be, only that WotC is a little lazy on that rule sometimes... It would be entirely within the realm of reason for base classes to simply say that the character simply automatically builds his shield at that level.
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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Non-manifester Psyche-flavoured Class [3.5, Base]

    The point is, the reactive shield is basically a worthless piece of metal that can be crafted in a day, AND only works on you. Sorry to say, but that is actually the literal definition of Divine Focus. Also, yeah, spellbooks for the win. Also some homebrewing classes where you bond with your sword and stuff that I've seen. The point is, the deflection bonus does not increase because you're getting better and more awesome shields, but because you simply focus your mental energy better into it.

    On that note, I'm adding some stuff right now. And...I did not decide on a power Tier yet, so bear with me on that.

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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Non-manifester Psyche-flavoured Class [3.5, Base]

    Ok, added some of the placebos. About half or two thirds of them. Also, now you can't change them at all, it's just too troublesome.

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    Default Re: Non-manifester Psyche-flavoured Class [3.5, Base]

    Nevertheless... what you're assuming is that the shield spontaneously pops into existence once you hit Xth level. And then if it's, say, sundered, it's lost forever?
    Easy solution: say that the mentat can craft one given 24 hours of uninterrupted work and 100 gp worth of reagents. Solves all your problems.

    ...Also, whenever I see "Mentat", I can't help think of the drug from fallout...
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    Default Re: Non-manifester Psyche-flavoured Class [3.5, Base]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    Nevertheless... what you're assuming is that the shield spontaneously pops into existence once you hit Xth level. And then if it's, say, sundered, it's lost forever?
    I already said it can't be sundered.

    ...Also, whenever I see "Mentat", I can't help think of the drug from fallout...
    Not much I can do about that, Mentat is the name used in the books.

    Either way, what do you think about the Placebos. I would also like to know what Tier you think this class belongs to.

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    Default Re: Non-manifester Psyche-flavoured Class [3.5, Base]

    Bump......

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    Default Re: Non-manifester Psyche-flavoured Class [3.5, Base]

    You still have a dead level to fill.

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    Default Re: Non-manifester Psyche-flavoured Class [3.5, Base]

    A few things you've forgotten/ignored/miscalculated:

    1. Coolheaded then Unyielding and then Overcoming Self-conservation?! Really? Investing so much for something a paladin gets at 3rd level?! Not good. Just have Coolheaded reduce fear potency by 1 step per strain until total negation. It adds up quite well with the scenario of the Gom-Jabbar test.
    2. Mental influence: using one's voice to fascinate/daze/stun/paralyze/kill.
    3. Shai-Hulud. Also calls for a new monster, but since you're at it...
    4. The Fremens were desert people and the atreides fit in quite smoothly. This calls for a placebo that helps coping with denial of food & water and long periods of strain (unless I missed it).
    5. KWISATZ HADERACH and Prophetic powers.
    6. Leto's transformation.

    I probably forgot something, but this will do for now.

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    Default Re: Non-manifester Psyche-flavoured Class [3.5, Base]

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    1. Coolheaded then Unyielding and then Overcoming Self-conservation?! Really? Investing so much for something a paladin gets at 3rd level?! Not good. Just have Coolheaded reduce fear potency by 1 step per strain until total negation. It adds up quite well with the scenario of the Gom-Jabbar test.
    No, that would be too much. Paladins are Tier 5 BECAUSE by level 6 they get no new class features. A level 3 Paladin is on par with a level 3 from any Tier 3 class.

    2. Mental influence: using one's voice to fascinate/daze/stun/paralyze/kill.
    Hmm...yes, would work nicely in the dead level. Will think about it.

    3. Shai-Hulud. Also calls for a new monster, but since you're at it...
    Much too setting-dependent. Sorry.

    4. The Fremens were desert people and the atreides fit in quite smoothly. This calls for a placebo that helps coping with denial of food & water and long periods of strain (unless I missed it).
    I said the placebo list was incomplete. This should work nicely.

    5. KWISATZ HADERACH and Prophetic powers.
    Only by consumption of spice. You can't have it for free.

    6. Leto's transformation.
    ...did not happen because he was a Mentat, but because he was freaking Leto.

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    Default Re: Non-manifester Psyche-flavoured Class [3.5, Base]

    Quote Originally Posted by Phosphate View Post
    No, that would be too much. Paladins are Tier 5 BECAUSE by level 6 they get no new class features. A level 3 Paladin is on par with a level 3 from any Tier 3 class.
    Am I missing something ?
    How does the Paladin being tier 5 makes my suggestion too much ?


    Quote Originally Posted by Phosphate View Post
    Hmm...yes, would work nicely in the dead level. Will think about it.
    I'd make it a set of abilities tat scales with level.


    Quote Originally Posted by Phosphate View Post
    Much too setting-dependent. Sorry.
    I'm OK with setting-dependency (Eberron, Faerun... y'know).


    Quote Originally Posted by Phosphate View Post
    Only by consumption of spice. You can't have it for free.
    PrC perhaps ?


    Quote Originally Posted by Phosphate View Post
    ...did not happen because he was a Mentat, but because he was freaking Leto.
    He got to become 'freaking Leto' somehow. To my best recollection, he wasn't born that way.
    Another PrC perhaps ?
    See if you can rise to the challenge (you'll most probably be the first ever).

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    Default Re: Non-manifester Psyche-flavoured Class [3.5, Base]

    If the Reactive Shield is powered by your thought energy, then why on earth do you need some scrap metal worn around your waist to use it? Just get rid of the silly belt altogether and be done with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phosphate View Post
    No, that would be too much. Paladins are Tier 5 BECAUSE by level 6 they get no new class features. A level 3 Paladin is on par with a level 3 from any Tier 3 class.
    And no, a level 3 Paladin is not on par with Tier 3 classes at level 3. If he could do anything he might be, but he's got 1 smite per day, which would suck even if he had 6/day, and Lay on Hands is garbage too, so all he's got going for him is immunity to fear and disease and maybe having 1pt higher saves than normal (unless he completely dumps Str, which has it's own obvious drawbacks).
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    Default Re: Non-manifester Psyche-flavoured Class [3.5, Base]

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    Am I missing something ?
    How does the Paladin being tier 5 makes my suggestion too much ?
    The point was...wasting 3 levels in Paladin to get something is like using a 2 LA template (I won't say 3 because you do get Cha to saves). Now, would you rather use a 2 LA template or waste 2 class-specific pseudo-feats (especially considering that you're losing as many as you like actually, your suggestion for 1 skill only does what my second skill does, not my 3rd, so you're actually wasting 1...out of 9)? Probably the latter.

    I'd make it a set of abilities tat scales with level.
    I do feel like his class features are crowded already.

    I'm OK with setting-dependency (Eberron, Faerun... y'know).
    It's not only setting dependency. You are FORCED to make at least 50% your campaign within the bounds of a desert. Not everybody digs that idea.

    PrC perhaps ?
    Yeah, that was what I was thinking too. Will start making it in 3 or 4 days.

    He got to become 'freaking Leto' somehow. To my best recollection, he wasn't born that way.
    Another PrC perhaps ?
    See if you can rise to the challenge (you'll most probably be the first ever).
    Freaking Leto became Freaking Leto because he got the idea of melding with sandworms. To use an analogy, not all Sorcerers Lichify themselves.

    And a PrC for that will be kinda LOL'ish to balance. Please remember that Druids get Gargantuan shape only after hitting epic levels...and they're kinda the best class ever already.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziegander View Post
    If the Reactive Shield is powered by your thought energy, then why on earth do you need some scrap metal worn around your waist to use it? Just get rid of the silly belt altogether and be done with it.
    Should wizards also get rid of their spellbook? Either way, the belt's a focus element. Spells have that.

    And no, a level 3 Paladin is not on par with Tier 3 classes at level 3. If he could do anything he might be, but he's got 1 smite per day, which would suck even if he had 6/day, and Lay on Hands is garbage too, so all he's got going for him is immunity to fear and disease and maybe having 1pt higher saves than normal (unless he completely dumps Str, which has it's own obvious drawbacks).
    Level 3 characters are not even supposed to do "anything". Just look at a level 3 Factotum.

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    Default Re: Non-manifester Psyche-flavoured Class [3.5, Base]

    Quote Originally Posted by Phosphate View Post
    Now, would you rather use a 2 LA template or waste 2 class-specific pseudo-feats ? Probably the latter.
    I would rather waste 1 pseudo-feat and be done with.
    And just think of the name: Placebo.
    Your either have a given placebo or not.
    You shouldn't have placebo trees. It makes the character less versatile and less interesting.
    I suggest that wherever you have a 3-placebo tree, find a midway average effect and make it a single placebo.
    (but that's just me)


    Quote Originally Posted by Phosphate View Post
    I do feel like his class features are crowded already.
    Then I have a proposal fo you: use a separate column for placebos. It will suddenly make a lot of breathing space in your Special column and make it a lot more pleasent to behold and easier to organize.
    I also suggest the first placebo to be gained at 2nd level... and if some of them seem too powerful at certain levels, add a minimum-level requirement.


    Quote Originally Posted by Phosphate View Post
    Freaking Leto became Freaking Leto because he got the idea of melding with sandworms. To use an analogy, not all Sorcerers Lichify themselves.
    No, but the option is there.


    Quote Originally Posted by Phosphate View Post
    And a PrC for that will be kinda LOL'ish to balance. Please remember that Druids get Gargantuan shape only after hitting epic levels...and they're kinda the best class ever already.
    Leto lived more than 3000 years (when he finally unlocked the solution) to get to the level of power described in God Emperor of Dune.
    I never suggested the pre-epic PrC to be the pinnacle of Leto's existence.


    Quote Originally Posted by Phosphate View Post
    Should wizards also get rid of their spellbook? Either way, the belt's a focus element. Spells have that.
    1. I don't see any reason why it should come anywhere near 5 pounds.
    2. At least explain what it takes for a mentat to create one (after all, it can be disarmed, stolen, lost, confiscated and whatnot).
    Last edited by nonsi; 2011-09-09 at 09:05 AM.

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    Default Re: Non-manifester Psyche-flavoured Class [3.5, Base]

    Hmmm, while I like the concept, the execution has a few holes from my point of view. I'll throw in my 2 coppers anyway though, since I I'd want my class to be reviewed as well.

    The first thing I noticed when reading over this class, was that it apparently works best in a poor campaign. By that I do not mean the quality of the campaign, but its relation to wealth and especially magic items. Many of the abilities seem to go contrary to the general availability of certain magic items in most campaigns and could easily be duplicated.

    ATTENTION:
    I don't know how you envisioned the strain ability to work, but most of your class features throw so much strain at the character that the threshold you set is entirely unacceptable unless you want the class to be ineffectual for large amounts of time. You will see me mentioning this several times in this post, but this flaw has become so glaringly to me that I want to put it up here too.

    Class features:

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    Betterment:
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    Taking the strain increase is a no-brainer considering it then still is an Int-based class with 4+Int Skillpoints and you still get 6+Int for the first level anyway.


    Overspecialization:
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    Greetings Mr Erudite. I am not fond of rules like this, though its mostly flavour and generally you want to advance in this class anyway for the extra strain.

    Backlash:
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    I am of a split mind on this one.
    On one hand the Fort save is kind of bad. Imagine if you are level 10 and took strain increase for all levels. You now have a 19 strain threshold. Once you hit 20 strain, you suddenly need to make a DC 20 Fort save or take damage. With a bad Fortitude save in the class, this seems unfair.
    The will save is less bad and generally is easy to succeed in unless you really use a lot of strain in one go. Unlike the Fortitude Save, the will save becomes easier the higher your level and especially at a low level this will be utterly ridiculous when you basically can't do anything for risk of damaging your wisdom.
    On the other hand, the saves become utterly meaningless later on. Get a cohort with UMD and a wand of cure light for the Fort save and a wand of lesser restoration (or a dip in Binder for good old Naberius) and you can pretty much ignore the Backlash. With a bit of optimization you will make your will save 19/20 times and the Fort save can be countered by simple healing. Only the 1/20 chance holds some dread for you, but thats what Naberius or the wand are for.
    Once you have that, Strain loses all meaning for the most part unless you spam high strain abilities and keep failing both saves for xd10 damage.

    Immediate Familiarization (too many i's):
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    This is a nice ability. It allows you to use everything you might find and in a pinch you can lift a weapon off an enemy. It would be cool if it was flavoured as you reading the weapons history and gaining inside into how it was wielded by its previous users.


    Reactive Shield:
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    Oh boy, I do NOT like this one.
    I can see that you want it to be like a holy symbol or a spellbook, but neither of those take up an entire magic item slot, and a good one at that if you like Belts of Magnificence and the like.
    You basically lose an item slot for a circumstantial bonus to AC and a bit of damage.
    The AC bonus makes little sense as a shuriken thrower 15' away is exempt, but a Bow-shooter at 100' wouldn't.
    The melee condition makes me question wether the total damage is meant or if there are special rules. Is the damage meant before DR is applied or after (since it says damage dealt)? In the latter case any Mentat with DR would be even worse off. It can become especially funny if you are using AC as DR variant rules since it creates a small corridor where without the shield the damage is great enough to activate it, but once its activated, the DR would reduce the damage to less than is needed to activate the effect.

    The damage dealing aspect is interesting, but as hp increase far faster than CR it becomes meaningless after a while unless you run into people ... a lot.

    Sudden relocation:
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    This one is too expensive. If strain didn't work on a daily basis but on an encounter or even hourly basis it wouldn't be so bad, but as it is you seem to throw way too many strain points at the abilities with a far too small threshold.
    This ability would be a great deal more useful and usable if it only cost 1 strain per use and allowed you to move Int-Mod*5' as a swift action or for 2 strain as a free action. The fact that your threshold is generally very low even if you took the increase from the Betterment ability balances this a lot.

    Intelligence boost:
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    Why is this a Footnote in the placebo section? A +4 untyped bonus to the main ability scores over 20 levels is not something weak. Its not awe inspiring either, but deserves more of a notice. I very nearly read over it.


    Burden:
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    You do realise you will most likely be fighting a lot of things with more HD than you, do you? At medium BAB you are not a heavy fighter that can dole out insane amounts of damage. This ability is basically a trap generally costing you at least 2 strain from medium levels upwards. At a flat 1 strain I could see it being useful, but for any enemy that is big, has good saves versus your spellcaster in the group and has massive amounts of HP (the enemy you want to use this against), you won't be able to since most likely that enemy has a lot of HD over you and you don't have that much freedom with your strain.


    Projected Blow:
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    This Power on the other hand is awesome. A reach weapon (do you threaten at twice range as well?) and all your damage being force, together with the usual boons of a force effect make this an irresistable power for all enemies with stupidly high DR. The fact that it costs a strain point to use balances it out nicely as you can't just mindlessly spam it on everything. This one is very well done in my opinion, though I have to ask wether it lasts until the start of your next turn for opportunity attacks.


    Perfect memory:
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    This can become very handy when you have to be sneaky. Its a very nice roleplay-centric ability and there need to be more of those. I greatly approve.


    Perfect sentience:
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    The increasing cost is something I don't think works well. Its a lot of cost versus a small threshold again. This is one of the powers that even in higher levels when backlash isn't so bad can't abuse as the cost makes will saves impossible after a point. Like the factotum's Font of Inspiration, the constant additions make it ludicrous. Even if you just want to use 4 powers in a day you already have 10 more strain on your balance.
    If you didn't take the betterment option even at level 20 thats half your threshold already.


    Perfect Influence:
    see Perfect Sentience.

    Ghost Strike:
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    Too little for too much of a cost in my opinion.
    At medium BAB a -5 attack doesn't have that great a chance to hit so you most likely will NEED the ghost strike option. Its not a partivularly bad option, but the fcat that you can't slay anything with it and you are not a heavy damage class, makes it of dubious usefulness.


    Mental Copy:
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    I really like this one.
    Though I have to admit I don't understand the passive magical ability bit.
    Right now I don't see a limit on how many copies you can have at any time.


    Mind fused with matter:
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    Interesting but weird. If you switch with the copy and it somehow got transported way off via a teleport trap or the like you could die from the strain since you wouldn't really know where it is.


    Voices of the Dead Ancestry:
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    An interesting ability though of limited use at this level. The skill bonus is nice but since it is capped at 5 its nothing groundbreaking. At least its free, so it can be useful.


    Computing Aura:
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    Okay, this one is good. However you can only use this in very specific ways since otherwise the general amount of spot and listen checks alone will make it completely useless after a few minutes of active play.


    Extreme Rationality:
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    Make this bonus apply to attack AND damage (even if its precision) and several of your abilities just got a lot more useful. Its also pretty useful in a mindblank sort of way. Not quite the same, but close.


    Placebos:

    Spoiler
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    Deny disease:
    useful but circumstantial.

    Deny poison:
    The same

    Deny temperature:
    A worse endure element at a monster cost.
    Suggestion: Duration 24h, flat activation cost 1.

    Deny Sustenance:
    Good as it is.

    Deny anatomy:
    This is way too good. The mentat is Int-based, so with some equipment you will easily be able to ignore 5 fort saves per day with this at no cost. This is one where I would say it should cost 1 strain to activate.

    Deny Hydration:
    Lose the water part? The wording otherwise makes it weird as it implies there are other things you NEED to drink.

    Coolheaded:
    This one is a toss up and as such is okay since its usefulness depends on the campaign. Though the active cost is once more a bit high.

    Unyielding:
    No problems with this one, the ability to basically ignore several fear effects is nice.

    Overcoming Self-Conservation:
    the logical conclusion, but kind of bad since it makes the previous ones dead weight in your placebo box except for a few exception.

    Boost of confidence:
    A must have. The cost is insignificant compared to the gain.

    Aura of confidence:
    This will generally mean a bonus of 2 (later 3) to a lot of things. Its a very nice ability to have.

    Assured Success:
    The point where the will save from Backlash loses all danger for you (except for the addition based abilities)

    Normalizing Will:
    Even as an entry power this is crappy since you only have substantial SR against casters faaaaaar below you and those generally don't pose a problem any. 6+Class levels would be more appropriate in my opinion.

    Wait, it stacks? Seriously? This is now instantly the best thing every. Combine with anything that has any SR and you are set for anything.

    Disbelieve the Supernatural:
    Even if Normalizing Will only stacks with other placebos you now have at least 11+class level SR and by level 20 probably 15+ or 16+.

    Stubborn ignorance:
    Unless you know the check result this is a gamble and generally you won't need it.

    Will to survive:
    Not bad and priced okay considering you can do that even if you were at +10 and tok 57 damage or the like.

    Comatose:
    A survivor's choice, but not all that great, though at least you can't minor bleed to death.

    Stray knowledge:
    Whuh?

    Bardic Knowledge:
    An entire placebo as extra entry cost is harsh but Bardic knowledge can be very useful. I hope it includes using your mentat level as bard levels.

    Liberating pain:
    Hello there cohort with the wand of cure light.
    Does it stack?

    Martyr:
    how many d6?
    Does it stack?
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    Default Re: Non-manifester Psyche-flavoured Class [3.5, Base]

    First, thanks for taking your time to comment on everything.

    Second...you DO realize that Liberating pain and Martyr can be gained at levels 4 and 6 respectively, yes? (about them...Martyr is a toggle on/off ability, so it obviously cannot stack...but Liberating Pain can)

    Doesn't that change anything about the perspective of Strain?

    Thirdly...yes, it is meant for a poor setting. But you are right, the shield shouldn't stop you from using any other, much more useful belt. Will probably change it.

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    Default Re: Non-manifester Psyche-flavoured Class [3.5, Base]

    Even if you have max hp/HD and a Con of 16 you will only have 36hp by level 4.

    2d10 averages at 11 so you lose 1/3rd your hp for 1 strain reduction.
    By now you have a threshold of 7.

    Considering you apparently want this to be a direct combat class, the instant deduction of points is quite heavy for low levels.

    Martyr is far more cost effective and puts less strain (heh) on your hp.

    It can be used for out of combat recovery since a wand of lesser vigor will be able to basically recover 1 strain per charge for liberating pain or 2 per charge for martyr.

    In combat though only martyr seems useful in low levels since liberating pain puts too much presure on your hp.
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    Default Re: Non-manifester Psyche-flavoured Class [3.5, Base]

    Quote Originally Posted by Re'ozul View Post
    It can be used for out of combat recovery since a wand of lesser vigor will be able to basically recover 1 strain per charge for liberating pain or 2 per charge for martyr.

    In combat though only martyr seems useful in low levels since liberating pain puts too much presure on your hp.
    Exactly. First I thought giving a strain limit per encounter would balance it more, but what exactly IS an encounter is a pretty darn nasty and abusable loophole (treat every little cat you run into as an encounter, and you've got basically an infinite supply of Reality Revision / Crushing Hand).

    So I made them removable only by sleep and those two placebos, knowing that the damage boosts, though large, are not worth the hit point loss until levels 14+. But AFTERWARD, it comes to play offensively. Liberating Pain 3 times, and with Ghost Strike you will be dealing +3d10 damage, ignoring target's armor bonus. And that's just one benefit.

    Hmm...why is there no limit to the number of mental clones you can have? I clearly stated you can have just one.

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