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    Default The Ascetic [3.5 Ranged Melee Class, Vaguely Monkish, Slightly Psionic]

    The Ascetic

    {Scrubbed - Copyrighted Image Used Without Permission}

    Background: An Ascetic is one who, for whatever reason, resents their reliance on their own body. Most commonly, they are those who are in some way injured or paralysed, who seek to unlock enough of their own power to become self sufficient.
    Races: Ascetics tend to come from all paths and races. Both from physical races who have lost their health and wish to regain it, and mental races who seek a power different from their colleagues.
    Other Classes: Ascetics find similarity with Soulknives, due to their shared usage of their mind as a weapon. They have a lot in common with monks, and sometimes try to share their insights with each other.
    Role: An Ascetic has the unique role of a ranged melee character. They are fragile, but hit hard, and thus have a similar role to an archer or a blaster.
    Ascetics in the World: In the street, a weaker ascetic draws barely any attention. A more powerful one, floating along under their own power, often draws attention, whether it be admiration or terror.
    Inspiration: Not sure. The idea of punching at range is cool?

    Alignment: Ascetics can come in any alignment. Some resent the world around them, but others desire to be a part of it.
    Hit Die: d6
    Starting Gold: As Sorcerer
    Starting Age: As Bard
    Class Skills-The Asceticís class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Autohypnosis (Wis), Balance (Dex), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (Psionics, the Planes), Listen (Wis), Open Lock (Dex), Psicraft (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Tumble (Dex) and Use Magic Device (Cha).
    Skill Points at 1st level: (4+ Int Modifier) x4
    Skill Points per Level: 4+ Int Modifier

    Ascetic
    Level Base Attack Bonus Mental Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special Thoughtfist Unarmed Damage
    1st
    +0
    +1
    +0
    +0
    +2
    Mental Prowess, Thoughtfist +0, Psionic Talent, Scorn Earth 1d4
    2nd
    +1
    +2
    +0
    +0
    +3
    Psychic Shift 1d4
    3rd
    +1
    +3
    +1
    +1
    +3
    Racing Thoughts, Strategic Thoughts 1d4
    4th
    +2
    +4
    +1
    +1
    +4
    Fortress of Mind 1d6
    5th
    +2
    +5
    +1
    +1
    +4
    Understandings (Minor), Thoughtfist +1 1d6
    6th
    +3
    +6/+1
    +2
    +2
    +5
    Inflamed Blast 1d6
    7th
    +3
    +7/+2
    +2
    +2
    +5
    Scorn the Surface 1d6
    8th
    +4
    +8/+3
    +2
    +2
    +6
    Perfected Thoughtouch 1d8
    9th
    +4
    +9/+4
    +3
    +3
    +6
    Understandings (Major), Thoughts of Metal, Thoughtfist +2 1d8
    10th
    +5
    +10/+5
    +3
    +3
    +7
    Improved Fortress of Mind 1d8
    11th
    +5
    +11/+6/+1
    +3
    +3
    +7
    Deny The World 1d8
    12th
    +6/+1
    +12/+7/+2
    +4
    +4
    +8
    I Need No Words 2d6
    13th
    +6/+1
    +13/+8/+3
    +4
    +4
    +8
    Understandings (Greater), Thoughts of Belief, Thoughtfist +3 2d6
    14th
    +7/+2
    +14/+9/+4
    +4
    +4
    +9
    Spirit Strike 2d6
    15th
    +7/+2
    +15/+10/+5
    +5
    +5
    +9
    Embrace the Sky 2d6
    16th
    +8/+3
    +16/+11/+6/+1
    +5
    +5
    +10
    Thought Cascade 3d6
    17th
    +8/+3
    +17/+12/+7/+2
    +5
    +5
    +10
    Understandings (Deep), Thoughtfist +4 3d6
    18th
    +9/+4
    +18/+13/+8/+3
    +6
    +6
    +11
    Thoughts Of Might 3d6
    19th
    +9/+4
    +19/+14/+9/+4
    +6
    +6
    +11
    Irresistable Force 3d6
    20th
    +10/+5
    +20/+15/+10/+5
    +6
    +6
    +12
    Choose the Path 4d6

    Weapon and Armour Proficiency: An Ascetic is proficient with unarmed strikes and all simple weapons, light armour, and any abilities they get from class levels. They are not proficient with medium or heavy armour, or shields. Heavy armour and shields can conflict with some of their class abilities.

    Mental Prowess (Ex): An Asceticís skill is not in the physical, but the mental. For purposes of qualifying for psionic feats, using any (Su) abilities gained from Ascetic levels, and making any psionic attacks, they use the Mental BAB column in the above table.

    Thoughtfist (Su): An Asceticís body is weak, but their mind is strong. With simple concentration, they can form attacks with their mind, striking their foes with fists of psychic energy. Most Ascetics choose to manifest these in the form of fists, but others use claws, tentacles from the ground, or simple blasts of psychic energy. They all use the same damage rating. (The damage given in the above table is for a Medium sized Ascetic.

    An Ascetic may make unarmed standard melee attacks at a range of 30ft, plus an additional five feet per class level. They may make iterative attacks. All damage dealt is bludgeoning damage, but deals half damage against incorporeal targets. As a full round action, they may change this to deal either piercing or slashing damage. At will, they can use this ability to instead deal nonlethal damage at no penalty. Either way, it is a psionic attack, so pierces DR/Psionic or Magic. They gain an enhancement bonus to these attacks equal to the listed number, which increases at every fourth level after 1st. In addition, their mental unarmed attacks do more damage than most, similarly to a Monk, as shown in the above table. This class feature counts as Improved Unarmed Strike for purposes of unarmed strike, and is improved by feats and abilities that improve it. Abilities, feats and items that increase your effective monk level apply to your Ascetic Level for the purposes of Thoughtfist damage. (And, in a campaign where Monks have other abilities increased by these feats and powers, the Ascetic may increase any similar abilities-for example, if using a Monk fix that grants an enhancement bonus to unarmed strikes, and allowing a Monk's Belt to enhance that, the enhancement bonus of Thoughtfist would be increased by it too.)

    This ability is considered a natural weapon. For the purposes of Attacks of Opportunity, they have reach to a number of squares equal to the lower of their Charisma and Intelligence modifiers. (So with Cha 14 and Int 18, they have 10ft reach, and with both scores at 16, they have 15ft reach.) Obviously, their reach cannot be greater than their range.

    A character has as many 'thoughtfist' attacks as they have natural weapons or unarmed strikes (two for most PC races), and can be used to TWF (Or Multiweapon Fight for creatures with enough limbs) with the appropriate penalties. Due to a lack of finesse, they may not make trip attacks, disarm attacks, or any other advanced combat maneuver.

    Finally, the Asceticís attacks rely not on muscle and speed, but thought and will. Instead of Strength or Dexterity, their attack rolls are based on Intelligence, and their damage rolls add their Charisma modifier. However, they suffer a -2 penalty on Thoughtfist attack and damage rolls if wearing heavy armour, and an additional -2 penalty if using a shield. This ability counts as Weapon Finesse qualifies for Psionic feats with Dexterity or Strength requirements, such as Psionic Fist, using her Intelligence and Charisma score.

    Thoughtfist is almost impossible to use in an antimagic or antipsionic field. To do so, they must make a level check against the antimagic effectís caster level. A success allows them to freely use their Thoughtfist ability for a number of rounds equal to half their class level.

    Psionic Talent: An Ascetic is a psionic character. They gain the Wild Talent feat as a bonus feat.
    He has no power points per level, but has a manifester level equal to his class level, and gains bonus power points for a high Intelligence score, although he has no use for them until fifth level.

    Scorn Earth (Su): An Asceticís feet can lift from the ground. From now on, she can float a foot above the ground instead of walking she glides along, unconcerned with the hard earth or difficult terrain. As long as she remains within one foot of a flat surface of any solid or liquid, she can take normal actions and make normal attacks, and can move at her normal speed (she can even ďrunĒ at four times her normal speed). She may not rise higher than one foot higher than a surface, and still exerts a reduced weight upon it. Reduce her effective weight on the ground by dividing it by two for each class level she possesses. At seventh level, she exerts no weight on the ground.

    Finally, this ability renders them immune to falling damage as per a constant Feather Fall effect.

    Psychic Shift (Su): An Ascetic may not be agile, but they can push themselves out of the way of their foes attacks with psychic might. An Ascetic of at least second level gains a deflection bonus to AC equal to one plus a third of their Ascetic level. This benefit is halved while in heavy armour.

    Strategic Thoughts: An Ascetic of third level has learnt to use their mental Ďhandsí in a more delicate way. They may use Thoughtfist attacks to grapple, disarm, trip, sunder or feint, using their Charisma modifier in place of their strength modifier, and their Intelligence modifier in place of their dexterity modifier. They cannot be pinned, tripped, disarmed or anything similar in response unless the target is within five foot.

    In addition, they can duplicate the effects of Mage Hand at will by using a move action.

    Racing Thoughts: An Asceticís weapons are his thoughts, and he must learn to use them as rapidly as he can. At 3rd level, he may make an additional attack at his full BAB whenever he could make a normal attack. (This includes attacks of opportunity, attacks made as standard actions, and charge attacks) All attacks made in an attack routine using this ability must be Thoughtfist attacks, and they suffer a -2 penalty on attack rolls. This penalty is reduced by one at 8th level, and disappears at 14th.

    Thought Cascade
    At 16th level, an Ascetic gains a second attack from this ability.

    In addition, as opposed to launching a normal full attack, an Ascetic can use a Thought Cascade. If they do, they make a single attack at their full attack bonus. If it hits and does at least one point of damage, they make a second attack at a -1 penalty to hit and damage compared to the first attack. If it hits and does damage, they make a third attack with a -2 penalty. This continues until they either miss or deal no damage.

    Fortress of Mind (Ex) An Asceticís mind is stronger than any fortification. When an Ascetic of at least fourth level is affected by any effect that allows a will save for a reduced effect, a successful save negates the entire effect.

    Improved Fortress of Mind
    At tenth level, this ability upgrades. While the Ascetic still negates all effects on a successful will saving throw against attacks, she may sometimes take a reduced effect even when she fails. Against an effect that deals damage, she takes half damage if she fails. This applies even if the effect usually does not have a reduced effect, such as Mind Thrust. While it will halve the damage, it will not negate the slow from Chaos Hammer unless she passes, and she will still be slain by Recall Death if she cannot pass her save.

    Understandings (Ps): At fifth level, an Ascetic becomes capable of using some limited psionic abilities, called Understandings.

    An Understanding is similar to a Psi-like Ability, and is usable at will, generally as a standard action. They use Charisma to determine save DCs and other similar affects. Like a Psi-like Ability, Understandings are automatically Augmented, but they are augmented only to the maximum of four less than the Ascetic's class level. Like a Psi-like Ability, these power points are not taken from the Ascetic's pool. However, she may further augment them to her own level using the points that she does have.

    A Minor Understanding is considered a first or second level power. A Major Understanding is third or fourth level. A Greater Understanding is fifth or sixth level, and a Deep Understanding is seventh or eight level.

    An Ascetic learns one Understanding at fifth level, which must be a Minor Understanding. He learns another at each odd level thereafter. At 9th level, he may choose Minor or Major Understandings. At 13th level, he may instead choose a Greater Understanding, and at 17th level Deep Understandings become available.

    Epic
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    An Ascetic continues to improve their use of Understandings throughout their Epic Levels. They may learn an additional Understanding at 23rd level, and another each fourth level thereafter.


    An Ascetic cannot use the same understanding repeatedly; After using an Understanding, they cannot use the same Understanding for 1d4 rounds.

    Understandings
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    Minor Understandings
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    Deceive the Senses
    Level: 1
    Save: Will disbelief
    This Understanding functions as the spell Silent Image, other than being a psionic effect.

    Augmentation: At 4pp, this Understanding may instead function as Minor Image. At 6pp, it may mimic Major Image, and at 10pp, it may have the effects of Persistent Image. The saving throw for these abilities is increased by one for each second PP spent on it after two. (Giving it a save DC of 20+Charisma modifier at 20pp)

    Sense Intelligence
    Level: 2
    Range: 1 mile/ML or 60ft cone
    Duration: 1 minute per level.
    Save: Will negates; see Detect Thoughts
    Using this Understanding, the user can tell if there are intelligent creatures around, and where they are, loosely. Over a few hours, they can narrow down search a forest for bandits, or they can unerringly find a city hidden in the desert.

    In addition, at shorter range, this Understanding mimics the effects of the spell Detect Thoughts.

    Augmentation: The saving throw for Detect Thoughts part of this Understanding is increased by one for each second PP spent on it after four. (Giving it a save DC of 20+Charisma modifier at 20pp)

    Shockwave
    Leve: 1
    Range: Close (25ft+5ft/2 levels)
    Area: 5ft+ 5ft/2 manifesting levels burst
    Duration: Instant
    Save: Reflex and Fortitude negate
    This Understanding causes a powerful concussive force in the directed area, knocking all beings there save the manifester to the ground. Firstly, this Understanding deals damage to all creatures within its effect, other than the manifester, equal to the number of PP spent on it. A successful Reflex save negates this effect. Secondly, unless they can make a Fortitude save, they are knocked prone.

    Augmentation: As well as increasing the damage of this effect directly, if seven or more PP are spent, it deals 1d3 damage per power point, and if fifteen or more are spent, it deals 1d6 per power point. Finally, both saving throws are increased by one for each second PP spent on it after four. (Giving it a save DC of 20+Charisma modifier at 20pp)

    Epic
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    Increase the die size of the Understanding's damage by one for each eighth PP after fifteen.


    Mental Reinforcement
    Level: 2
    Target: One person
    Range: Touch
    Duration: 24 hours
    The user hones the power of their mind, defending it from attack, using it to strengthen their body, or sharpening their reflexes. They gain an enhancement bonus to any one saving throw equal to their charisma modifier. You canít use this ability if a previous use is still active, and this bonus cannot exceed your class level.


    Major Understandings
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    Mind Unparalleled
    Level: 3
    Target: Self
    Duration: 24 hours
    The user concentrates every piece of knowledge he has, every mote of willpower and every instinct forced to operate as one, vastly increasing their potential.
    They gain a +2 enhancement bonus to Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma.

    Augmentation: If ten or more PP are spent to manifest this understanding, it provides a +4 bonus. If fifteen or more PP are spent, the bonus is instead +6.

    Epic
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    At twenty-five PP, this increases to a +8 bonus. At forty PP, +10, at sixty, +12, and etcetera.


    Psionic Blast
    Level: 4
    Range: 30ft cone
    Duration: Instant
    Save: Will negates
    The user launches a mental blast that stuns those in range for one round. A will save negates this effect.

    Augmentation: If ten or more PP are spent to manifest this understanding, those within range are stunned for 1d2 rounds. If fifteen or more PP are spent, they are stunned for 1d4 rounds. For each two PP spent beyond eight, the save DC is increased by one. (Giving it a save DC of 20+Charisma modifier at 20pp)

    Epic
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    At twenty-one PP, and at each eight PP beyond that, increase the die size of the stun duration by one.


    Sight Without Sight
    Level: 4
    Range: 10ft/PP
    Duration: 24 hours
    The user gains blindsight, with a range equal to 10ft for each power point used to manifest this Understanding.

    Augmentation: Spending more power points increases the range of the blindsight given by this Understanding.

    Windís Gift
    Level: 3
    Range: Touch
    Duration: 1 minute/pp
    The target gains a flight speed of 30ft (Average), held aloft by the power of the mind.

    Should the duration expire while the subject is still aloft, the effect fades slowly. The subject floats downward 60 feet per round for 1d6 rounds. If it reaches the ground in that amount of time, it lands safely. If not, it falls the rest of the distance, taking 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet of fall. Since dispelling an Understanding effectively ends it, the subject also descends in this way if it is dispelled, but not if it is negated by an antimagic field.

    A single Ascetic may not use this Understanding again until the first has ended.

    Augmentation: If fifteen or more PP are spent to manifest this understanding, it grants a fly speed of 60ft (Perfect) instead.


    Greater Understandings
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    In The Blink Of An Eye
    Level: 5
    This Understanding tears and twists space, allowing the Ascetic to travel massive distances at will. This functions as the spell Teleport.

    Augmentation: If fifteen or more PP are spent to manifest this understanding, it instead functions as Greater Teleport.

    Plane of Force
    Level: 5
    This Understanding forms a wall of pure force, capable of blocking almost any assault.
    This functions as the spell Wall of Force.

    A single Ascetic cannot have more Planes of Force active at once than a quarter of his Ascetic level.

    Strength of Mind, Strength of Flesh
    Level: 6
    Range: Touch
    Duration: 24 hours
    This Understanding reinforces the userís body with the strength of their mind.
    They gain DR/- and resistance to acid, cold, electricity and fire equal to half the PP spent on manifesting this Understanding, and Fast Healing equal to half that number.

    Augmentation: Spending more PP increases the effect of this Understanding.

    Trick the Mind
    Level: 6
    Saving Throw: Will disbelief
    This Understanding creates a pseudo-real illusion, powerful enough that those taken in are affected as if it is real.

    This Understanding can mimic a single conjuration (Creation or Summoning) or Evocation spell of no greater than fifth level.

    Spells that deal damage have normal effects unless an affected creature succeeds on a Will save. Each disbelieving creature takes only one-fifth damage from the attack. If the disbelieved attack has a special effect other than damage, that effect is one-fifth as strong (if applicable) or only 20% likely to occur. If recognized as a shadow evocation, a damaging spell deals only one-fifth (20%) damage. Regardless of the result of the save to disbelieve, an affected creature is also allowed any save (or spell resistance) that the spell being simulated allows, but the save DC is set according to this Understanding, rather than their normal level.

    Shadow conjurations are actually one-fifth (20%) as strong as the real things, though creatures who believe the shadow conjurations to be real are affected by them at full strength.
    Any creature that interacts with the conjured object, force, or creature can make a Will save to recognize its true nature.
    Regardless of the result of the save to disbelieve, an affected creature is also allowed any save that the spell being simulated allows, but the save DC is set according to this Understanding, rather than their normal level. In addition, any effect created by shadow conjuration allows spell resistance, even if the spell it is simulating does not. Shadow objects or substances have normal effects except against those who disbelieve them.
    Against disbelievers, they are 20% likely to work.
    A shadow creature has one-fifth the hit points of a normal creature of its kind (regardless of whether itís recognized as shadowy). It deals normal damage and has all normal abilities and weaknesses. Against a creature that recognizes it as a shadow creature, however, the shadow creatureís damage is one-fifth (20%) normal, and all special abilities that do not deal lethal damage are only 20% likely to work. (Roll for each use and each affected character separately.) Furthermore, the shadow creatureís AC bonuses are one-fifth as large.
    A creature that succeeds on its save sees the shadow conjurations as transparent images superimposed on vague, shadowy forms.

    Augmentation: For each three PP spent beyond twelve, choose ONE of the following:
    Increase maximum level of spell mimicked by one. (So spending 18PP and choosing this option twice allows the mimicking of 7th level spells)
    Increase percentage realism of effect by fifteen. (So spending 18pp and choosing this option twice makes the effect 50% real.)

    For each two PP spent beyond twelve, the save DC is increased by one. (Giving it a save DC of 20+Charisma modifier at 20pp)

    Epic
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    Beyond more PP, this Understanding does not increase in power at Epic Level. However, if they know metamagic feats, they may use them to cast spells of a higher level than normal, if they use the required PP


    Deep Understandings
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    Localised Control
    Level: 8
    This Understanding manipulates events on a massive scale, causing identical effects to any one of the following spells: Control Weather, Earthquake, Whirlwind.

    This Understanding may only be used once an hour.

    Augmentation: For each two PP spent beyond sixteen, the save DC is increased by one. (Giving it a save DC of 20+Charisma modifier at 20pp)

    Lockdown
    Level: 7
    Area: 10ft emanation
    Duration: 24h
    Save: Will negates
    This Understanding clamps down on the mind of all those around, slowing their mind to a crawl, negating all their power.

    This Understanding mimics the effects of Antimagic Field. However, anyone within the area except you is entitled to a will saving throw to ignore its effects (You are automatically subject to its effects, although you can still attempt to use Thoughtfists). A success allows them to ignore the antimagic field for its duration, although a new antimagic field requires a new save. A failure means they cannot try again with this antimagic effect.
    If they enter another antimagic effect, that one takes precedence in all areas where it overlaps.

    Augmentation: For each two PP spent beyond fourteen, the save DC is increased by one. (Giving it a save DC of 20+Charisma modifier at 20pp)

    Mental Onslaught
    Level: 7
    Range: 25ft +5ft/2 levels
    Target: One creature
    Save: Will halves
    This Understanding launches a massive telepathic assault on a single foe. It deals 1d12 damage for each power point used in Manifesting it. A will save halves this damage.

    Augmentation: Spending extra PP increases this Understandingís damage. In addition, for each two PP spent beyond fourteen, the save DC is increased by one. (Giving it a save DC of 20+Charisma modifier at 20pp)

    Travel Beyond Eternity
    Level: 7
    With this Understanding, the Ascetic splits reality, travelling through the tear to a far off place.

    This Understanding mimics the effects of Plane Shift.


    Inflamed Blast: At 6th level, an Ascetic can infuse their Thoughtfist with elemental power. By treating their Ascetic Level as four levels lower for the purposes of Thoughtfist damage, they can deal energy damage. At 6th level, and each third level thereafter, they may choose a single energy type not associated with any special effects. (Such as Acid, Fire, Electricity, or Cold).
    At 9th level, they may add Sonic to the list of choices. At 12th level, they may choose Force damage, and at 15th and beyond, other energy types with special effects are available.

    Scorn the Surface (Su): At 7th level, an Ascetic gains even stronger control over their movement. They gain the ability to float. Effectively, they gain a 30ft flight speed, with average manoeuvrability.
    In addition, at this level, their Scorn Earth ability becomes (Ex), meaning it applies even in an antimagic field.

    Embrace the Sky
    By 15th level, an Asceticís control has reached its peak. Their flight speed increases to 60ft, with perfect manoeuvrability.

    Perfected Thoughttouch (Su): An Ascetic of 8th level has near perfect dexterity with their mental touch, often far surpassing their Ďrealí hands. At the same range as their Thoughtfist, they may take any action they could perform with their hands at touch range, other than deliver touch range spells. As with Thoughtfist, they replace their Str mod with their Cha mod, and their Dex mod with their Int mod.
    Whatís more, they can split their attention with ease. For each fourth level above eighth, the Ascetic may perform a second set of actions. For example, a 12th level Ascetic could attempt to knock a door down, while tying someone up. This does allow them to carry several people's worth of items. At twentieth level, they are capable of lifting four sets of items, each with a strength equal to their Charisma score.

    This ability cannot be used during combat, except to manipulate a single object at a time. (No, they cannot use this ability to wield another weapon and attack again, or to activate a wand. Simple skill checks and lifting are essentially all this ability can do during combat.) If they do so, they reduce their Charisma and Intelligence by four for the purposes of this ability and Thoughtfist. This penalty is reduced to -2 at level 12, and to nothing at level 16.

    Thoughts of Metal: An Ascetic of 9th level can make their thoughtfists penetrate DR as if they were made of Cold Iron OR of Silver. (Although never both at once) Changing their choice requires a swift action.

    Deny The World (Su): At 11th level, an Ascetic can use their mental power to ignore and replace the requirements of their body. They do not need to eat or drink, and need only half the sleep/rest, and suffer no penalties for this lack.

    Epic
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    A 21st level Ascetic no longer needs to sleep or rest.


    I Need Not Words (Su): At 12th level, an Ascetic can speak using Telepathy to those nearby. They have a range equal to 10ft per point of Charisma and intelligence modifier. (So with Int 16 and Cha 18, they would have a range of 70ft) This communication does not rely on language.

    Thoughts Of Belief: A 13th level Ascetic treats their Thoughtfists as aligned to any alignment they possess.

    Spirit Strike: At 14th level, an Ascetic can use their powers to attack peopleís minds, rather than their bodies. By reducing their Ascetic level by five for the purposes of Thoughtfist damage, they may deal 1d4 of either Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma damage. A successful will save reduces this to one point per 1d4 damage they would have dealt.

    Thoughts of Might: At 18th level, an Ascetic learns the secrets of the greatest of metals-Adamantine. Their Thoughtfists are treated as being made of Adamantine, as well as penetrating DR as if Cold Iron or Silver. In addition, they add one to their critical strike range, stacking with but applied after any other modifications.

    Irresistible Force: An Ascetic of 19th level strikes with the force of something far greater. Her attacks ignore all DR except Epic. In addition, any DR that she could penetrate without this class ability (such as those penetrated by previous class abilities) takes an additional 2d6 damage. In the case of material based DR, this is the same type as the rest of her damage. In the case of alignment based DR, the additional damage is aligned to her alignment.

    Choose The Path: An Ascetic of 20th level makes a choice: Either they give up on the pathetic needs of their body, or they bind themselves even more tightly to it.

    Path of the Spirit: This path grants the Ascetic the Incorporeal type.
    The incorporeal type grants her the following benefits: An incorporeal creature has no physical body. It can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. It is immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Even when hit by spells or magic weapons, it has a 50% chance to ignore any damage from a corporeal source (except for positive energy, negative energy, force effects such as magic missile, or attacks made with ghost touch weapons). Although it is not a magical attack, un/holy water can affect incorporeal creatures of the opposing alignment, but a hit with un/holy water has a 50% chance of not affecting an incorporeal creature. They have no natural armour bonus, but a deflection bonus equal to their charisma modifier, which explicitly stacks with that granted by Psychic Shift.
    As a full round action, the Ascetic can lose the incorporeal subtype. Another full round action allows them to regain it.

    Path of the Flesh: This path focuses on reuniting the power of their mind and body, shoring up the latter with the former. An adherent of this path may use her will save instead of her fortitude or reflex save at any time. They may use their Intelligence modifier in place of their dexterity modifier at any time, and their charisma modifier instead of their strength modifier. Their genuine unarmed strike becomes equal to their Thoughtfists in every way, and they can use their Mental BAB in every situation. They may ignore the penalties imposed by heavy armour and shields on their class abilities. They may retroactively increase their hit die to d12. They gain regeneration equal to a quarter of their class level, and are dealt normal damage only by cold iron, which disrupts the forces they use to reknit themselves. (If they know the Understanding Strength of Mind, Strength of Flesh, they may double the gained fast healing, although it does not stack with their regneration.) Finally, an Ascetic with a nonmagical debility such as a broken or missing limb, a deformity, muteness, deafness, blindness, or even a true full body paraplegic is utterly cured on taking this path, even one otherwise curable only with a spell such as Wish or Miracle.

    Epic
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    Progression: Ascetic class abilities based on their level, such as Perfected Thoughttouch, Psionic Shift, or the damage of their Thoughtfists continue to grow in power.

    Bonus Feats: Ascetics may gain a thematic psionic or 'unarmed' bonus feat at 22nd level, and another at each fourth level thereafter. As a special note, they qualify for Keen Strike with Cha/Int 23, Thoughts of Might, and Improved Critical (Thoughtfists.) Consider adjusting similar feats to have more fitting prerequisites.
    Ascetics also qualify for Epic Expanded Knowledge after their 21st class level, although they may only choose powers of a level that could be used by a Psion of 2/3 their class level. (7th at level 21.)


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    Alternate Path
    Prerequisites:About to or already have taken first level of Ascetic
    Benefit: The Ascetic relies not on intelligence and charisma, smarts and force of will to power their class abilities, but some other combination. They may replace EITHER Charisma OR Intelligence in all class abilities with Wisdom. In addition, they may reverse Charisma and Intelligence. (So Charisma would determine attack rolls, and Intelligence damage.)
    (The Charisma modifier to AC gained as part of the Path of Spirit is not a class feature for the purposes of this feat-it is part of their subtype.)
    Normal: You aim with your brain and hurt with your force of will.
    Special: I donít care how you abuse the system, this feat alone cannot make both necessary mental attributes the same.

    Weapons of the Mind
    Prerequisites: Thoughtfist class ability.
    Benefit: The Asceticís Thoughtfists can take the shape of weapons. They may take the form of any weapon (whether natural or manufactured) that the Ascetic is proficient with and, if the weapon has higher damage than the Asceticís unarmed attacks, they use the higher damage rating.
    Alternatively, they can wield physical weapons that they are proficient with at range. Mechanically this works the same way, but they may use the higher enhancement bonus of their attacks and the wielded weapon, and may apply whichever set of weapon abilities they like, but not both.

    Rapid Knowledge
    Prerequisites: At least one Understanding
    Benefit: Instead of 1d4 rounds, the user must wait only one round after using an Understanding before using it again.


    Equipment
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    Bracers of the Ascetic
    These gauntlets allow a skilled enchanter to bind magical weapon enhancements to them, which then apply to the unarmed attacks of any wielder, as long as they possess Improved Unarmed Strike.
    They cost 600gp for an unenchanted pair, and are enchanted as a normal masterwork weapon. They apply their enhancement bonus and abilities to the wielder's Thoughtfist attacks.
    The enhancement bonus does not stack with that applied by class abilities; use the higher bonus.


    Alternate Class Feature
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    Destruction Through Will
    Prerequisites: About to take first level of Ascetic
    Lost: An Ascetic with this feature does not receive the ability to grapple, disarm, trip, sunder or feint with Strategic Thoughts.
    Benefit: An Ascetic with this ability does not make attack rolls to use his Thoughtfists. Instead, the foe makes a will save. The DC is equal to 10+1/2 Ascetic's class level+Intelligence modifier. However, the DC is reduced by half the penalty that would be levied on their attacks.
    If they succeed, they negate the damage of the attack. If they fail, they are struck, and damage is resolved as normal for a Thoughfist.
    Otherwise, the Thoughtfists function normally.
    Last edited by Lix Lorn; 2014-04-04 at 11:27 AM.
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    Default Re: The Ascetic [3.5 Ranged Melee Class, Vaguely Monkish, Slightly Psionic]

    Note to self: read this thread when you have more time, because you are honestly intrigued by how a melee class executed as a ranged one (or vice versa) and how it's done.
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    Default Re: The Ascetic [3.5 Ranged Melee Class, Vaguely Monkish, Slightly Psionic]

    And now I want to write a melee archer class. Thanks a lot Kamiyachiru.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: The Ascetic [3.5 Ranged Melee Class, Vaguely Monkish, Slightly Psionic]

    Looks nice for the most part. I'm not the best at commenting on balance(especially the high level stuff), but see two main problems:
    1. Scorn Earth is permanent flight at level 1. that's... Probably a problem.
    2. The Path of the Spirit is... pretty much better than the Path of the Flesh in every way.

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    Default Re: The Ascetic [3.5 Ranged Melee Class, Vaguely Monkish, Slightly Psionic]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragnar View Post
    Looks nice for the most part. I'm not the best at commenting on balance(especially the high level stuff), but see two main problems:
    1. Scorn Earth is permanent flight at level 1. that's... Probably a problem.
    2. The Path of the Spirit is... pretty much better than the Path of the Flesh in every way.
    That first one's a good point. Changed.
    Second is also a worry. Any suggestions on what I can add to Flesh?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: The Ascetic [3.5 Ranged Melee Class, Vaguely Monkish, Slightly Psionic]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    That first one's a good point. Changed.
    Second is also a worry. Any suggestions on what I can add to Flesh?
    Add in some of the immunities, for one. Incorporeality is ridiculously nice for several reasons, so if they choose flesh they need to be rewarded with a similarly OP gimmick. The ability to debuff/disable opponents with thoughtfist and/or Concussive Blast could be made appropriate, for example. Alternatively, make it so that the appropriate modifier is applied to /each/ damage die rather than as a flat bonus. Try to avoid die-based damage boosts. If i think of more, I'll come back and post.

    I like this class quite a bit. If only my new DM was alright with homebrew...
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    Default Re: The Ascetic [3.5 Ranged Melee Class, Vaguely Monkish, Slightly Psionic]

    Hmm. How about using Spirit Blast to hurt all attributes without sacrificing damage?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: The Ascetic [3.5 Ranged Melee Class, Vaguely Monkish, Slightly Psionic]

    I'm a bit worried about that Blast attack.. I mean; eventually, you'll have four attacks per round, each one dealing 10d8+modifiers damage... That's rather a lot, especially when compared to a weapon.
    I believe Eldritch Blast deals just about the same amount of damage, though without a modifier, and only once each turn.

    The Blast as it stands is definitely too powerful, and also trivializes the Fist ability.

    Aside from that: Lovely class. Absolutely adorable. If you ask me, this is what a blaster-caster should be. :)

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    Default Re: The Ascetic [3.5 Ranged Melee Class, Vaguely Monkish, Slightly Psionic]

    Bookmark'd.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Divide by Zero View Post
    Hulking Hurler can get something like (10^83)d6 damage, which is many orders of magnitude greater than the number of particles in the universe.
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    Default Re: The Ascetic [3.5 Ranged Melee Class, Vaguely Monkish, Slightly Psionic]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dryad View Post
    I'm a bit worried about that Blast attack.. I mean; eventually, you'll have four attacks per round, each one dealing 10d8+modifiers damage... That's rather a lot, especially when compared to a weapon.
    I believe Eldritch Blast deals just about the same amount of damage, though without a modifier, and only once each turn.

    The Blast as it stands is definitely too powerful, and also trivializes the Fist ability.

    Aside from that: Lovely class. Absolutely adorable. If you ask me, this is what a blaster-caster should be. :)
    (10d8+mod)x4
    Assuming a modifier of 24, that's 10d8+7. 52 damage a hit.
    At that level, that's really not that good. What's more, it's unlikely that you'll hit with them all.

    Most Warlock fixes allow them to use it on a full attack. Also, 1d8 of bludgeoning is weaker than 1d6 untyped.

    Although I WAS worried about it trivialising the Thoughtfists. That's why they can make extra attacks and such.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: The Ascetic [3.5 Ranged Melee Class, Vaguely Monkish, Slightly Psionic]

    +7 is a very minor modifier, really.
    Think of it not in terms of the calculation you just made, but in terms of weapon damage.
    Now; four attacks, so we'll take the Fighter with a two-hander.
    Two-hander deals 2d6+modifier. This ability deals a smashing 10d8+modifier! Same number of attacks per round.
    Both of them can be easily upgraded with enchantments and enhancements, by the way.

    Also, even with the upgrade to the Fist ability, the existence of the Blast ability renders on of them useless. One of them will be good; the other will be bad. And that's kind of the story of it. There's no situation in which you should use the Fist ability over the Blast ability, except for when grappling and such.

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    Default Re: The Ascetic [3.5 Ranged Melee Class, Vaguely Monkish, Slightly Psionic]

    But the fists make three attacks at full modifier, which is much more likely to actually hit.

    Although I do need to buff the fists, perhaps.
    Last edited by Lix Lorn; 2011-09-08 at 11:54 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
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    Default Re: The Ascetic [3.5 Ranged Melee Class, Vaguely Monkish, Slightly Psionic]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    Thoughtfist (Su)
    The damage for this seems pretty piddling at first. At 5th level, a Warlock is getting 3d6 at touch AC (better range, too), while you're targeting normal AC for 1d6+Cha+1.

    This gets a bit better as you go up thanks to iterative attacks, but it still seems a bit lacking.

    Also, there's no such thing as "psionic" damage (been playing 4e?). Should probably be just force.

    Also also, all of the (Su) stuff should probably be (Ps), given the psionic nature of the class.

    Also also also, the table need Thoughtfist +5 at level 20.

    Scorn Earth (Su)
    Feather fall constant is probably okay (suck it, Monk), but this also grants total immunity to quite a few traps, which might be too good at level 1.

    Concussion Blast (Su)
    Scratch that earlier comment about the Warlock, why would you ever use your basic Thoughtfist when you get this? This deals more damage. 10d8*4+Cha*4 vs. 4d6*5+Cha*5+5 with a Charisma mod of +8 works out to 204 vs. 115 damage on average from a full attack routine at level 20.

    What was the intent from this?

    Train of Thought
    Pretty good. Not too good, I think.

    Thought Cascade
    Think this is okay. You could probably break it, but that would require some deliberate determination.

    Psychic Shift (Su)
    Okay.

    Strategic Thoughts
    Needs specification for what you're using as a substitute for Str and Dex (I would presume Cha and Int, but you need idiotproofing), as well as what happens when you use these options. Presumably the opponent can't try to control the grapple, can't make a trip attempt if you fail, and so on.

    For mage hand, I'd suggest a swift action, unless you particularly want the class to have the ability to move everything 5 pounds or under unattended to anywhere within Close range instantly. Though mage hand requires a standard to cast and then a move action to actually move stuff, so if it was your intention to have them still need the move action, that needs clarification.

    Fortress of Mind (Ex)
    Okay. I suppose it makes sense just to not give them Mettle, although Mettle has both Will and Fort saves included for a reason.

    Inflamed Blast
    Even more reason to never, ever actually use the poor Thoughtfist.

    This is pretty ridiculously good, and makes every blaster build ever cry themselves to sleep. By your rules, you can toss out full-attack sonic damage at 6th level, and once you get to 12th, your doing full-attack vile damage and other ridiculousness. Saying "everything ever" is a munchkin's wet dream, and this is waaaay too open for abuse.

    Scorn the Surface (Su)

    Embrace the Sky
    Alright.

    Perfected Thoughttouch (Su)
    You could probably abuse this to all hell, but I'm not thinking of anything that would be easy or accidental. Also, "Yes, this means..." is really awkward phrasing.

    Thoughts of Metal
    Alright.

    Deny The World (Su):
    'kay.

    I Need Not Words (Su)
    70, not 7o, but okay.

    Thoughts Of Belief
    *twiddles thumbs, waits for more to nitpick*

    Spirit Blast
    Poor Thoughtfist, you will never, ever be used.

    Thoughts of Might
    *goes back to thumbs*

    Spirit Fuels the Flesh (Su)
    Alllllright, I think.

    Irresistible Force
    Fine methinks.

    Path of the Spirit
    Uh. Very, very good, but wheee, capstone, so I think it's fine.

    Path of the Flesh
    ^See last thing.

    For both of these, do you reroll HD?

    Alternate Path
    Hooookay.

    Weapons of the Mind
    Alriiiiight. I think. I could probably break this, but I'm not screaming the second I see it, which is a good sign.

    Bracers of the Ascetic
    I was like "Hey, a reason to use the Thoughtfist!", and then I saw the 400 gp tag to let you use it with your Concussive Blast and was bummed.

    Conclusion: Primary class feature is completely and totally invalidated by a secondary one, which is better in every way and also kind of OP. That needs some fixin'. I would place this as low Tier 4 to high Tier 5. They can blast pretty well, but that is literally the entire extent of their abilities, besides party mule-ing okay, which you want an NPC or item for, not a party member. I'd give them something else to do besides punch stuff from afar.

    Now that the bitching is over, I do like the class. Sooooo, uh, good job (I always feel a little dickish for congratulating someone on something after doing the fine-tooth comb routine)?

    EDIT: Holy crap "****" has been unblocked. Now I can discuss 19th century whaling literature in peace!

    EDIT EDIT: Ooooor not. That's kind of odd. ****. Dickish. ****-ish. Dickly. **** Dastardly. Dickface. ****. Moby ****. **** Dastardly dickishly dicked Moby **** in the deal for *****. ****

    EDIT EDIT EDIT: Note that I didn't read the rest of the comments before posting this, sooooo.

    EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT: If I were writing this (which I'm not, so take whatever you like), I would just completely ditch Concussive Blast and give it's leavings to Thoughtfist. A class really doesn't need two blasting abilities that are pretty much the exact same thing, except with one superior in every possibly way. So I would ditch CB, give Spirit Blast & co. to Thoughtfist, and then replace it with something non-blasty. Maybe steal the Warlock's Invocations and give the Ascetic something similar, so they're not a total *******-on-elbow out of combat.
    Last edited by Mr.Bookworm; 2011-09-08 at 02:40 PM.
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    Default Re: The Ascetic [3.5 Ranged Melee Class, Vaguely Monkish, Slightly Psionic]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Bookworm View Post
    The damage for this seems pretty piddling at first. At 5th level, a Warlock is getting 3d6 at touch AC (better range, too), while you're targeting normal AC for 1d6+Cha+1.

    This gets a bit better as you go up thanks to iterative attacks, but it still seems a bit lacking.

    Also, there's no such thing as "psionic" damage (been playing 4e?). Should probably be just force.

    Also also, all of the (Su) stuff should probably be (Ps), given the psionic nature of the class.

    Also also also, the table need Thoughtfist +5 at level 20.

    I meant it was psionic so it negates psionic DR.
    And it's meant to be Su. Ps is Sp, and they have a lot of extra rules baggage attached to them.
    And Thoughtfist is every fourth level, so not 20th level.


    Feather fall constant is probably okay (suck it, Monk), but this also grants total immunity to quite a few traps, which might be too good at level 1.
    Scorn Earth is pretty much copied verbatim from the Elocator. And personally, I don't like traps anyway. Besides being uninteractive, they were my first ever encounter in d&d, and TPKed.

    Scratch that earlier comment about the Warlock, why would you ever use your basic Thoughtfist when you get this? This deals more damage. 10d8*4+Cha*4 vs. 4d6*5+Cha*5+5 with a Charisma mod of +8 works out to 204 vs. 115 damage on average from a full attack routine at level 20.

    What was the intent from this?
    Concussion Blast is very much meant to be an equally valid as Thoughtfist, but not stronger. Is there a way I can make Thoughfist better without merely improving damage? Will I be forced to reduce Concussion Blast's damage?
    (Also it would be this:
    10d8*4+Cha vs. 4d6*6+Cha*6+4 with a Charisma mod of +8 works out to 188 vs. 136)


    Needs specification for what you're using as a substitute for Str and Dex (I would presume Cha and Int, but you need idiotproofing), as well as what happens when you use these options. Presumably the opponent can't try to control the grapple, can't make a trip attempt if you fail, and so on.
    Cha and Int, and I'll clarify.

    For mage hand, I'd suggest a swift action, unless you particularly want the class to have the ability to move everything 5 pounds or under unattended to anywhere within Close range instantly. Though mage hand requires a standard to cast and then a move action to actually move stuff, so if it was your intention to have them still need the move action, that needs clarification.
    Probably a move action to move stuff. Will clarify.

    Okay. I suppose it makes sense just to not give them Mettle, although Mettle has both Will and Fort saves included for a reason.
    Yeah, fort saves should very much not be their thing.

    Even more reason to never, ever actually use the poor Thoughtfist.
    Sad face.

    This is pretty ridiculously good, and makes every blaster build ever cry themselves to sleep. By your rules, you can toss out full-attack sonic damage at 6th level, and once you get to 12th, your doing full-attack vile damage and other ridiculousness. Saying "everything ever" is a munchkin's wet dream, and this is waaaay too open for abuse.
    Hmm. What if I made the rarer types do d4s?

    You could probably abuse this to all hell, but I'm not thinking of anything that would be easy or accidental. Also, "Yes, this means..." is really awkward phrasing.
    Basically I didn't want to have to imply it in complicated wording and just spelt it out. Should probably change.

    70, not 7o, but okay.
    Oops.

    *twiddles thumbs, waits for more to nitpick*
    Yeah, I started running out of ideas at the end.

    Poor Thoughtfist, you will never, ever be used.
    Note to self: Rename Spirit Strike and make it work on fists too.

    Alllllright, I think.
    Doesn't reeeaaally fit the fluff, but I couldn't think of anything better.

    Uh. Very, very good, but wheee, capstone, so I think it's fine.

    ^See last thing.

    For both of these, do you reroll HD?
    Are meant to be good. Do you think the two are balanced with each other, or is one way better?
    And you could reroll HD, or you could just increase by the average change. (d6>d12 would be +3 per HD)


    Hooookay.
    Every class I make can do this. It makes MAD in multiclassing not an issue, but that's a feature, not a bug.

    Alriiiiight. I think. I could probably break this, but I'm not screaming the second I see it, which is a good sign.
    Worst I can imagine is using it to flurry with greatswords. Which is strong, yeah, but prolly not TOO strong.

    I was like "Hey, a reason to use the Thoughtfist!", and then I saw the 400 gp tag to let you use it with your concussive blast and was bummed.
    Mainly I just thought being able to put enhancements on the Blast would be pretty cool.

    Conclusion: Primary class feature is completely and totally invalidated by a secondary one, which is better in every way and also kind of OP. That needs some fixin'. I would place this as low Tier 4. They can blast pretty well, but that is literally the entire extent of their abilities, besides party mule-ing okay, which you want an NPC or item for, not a party member. I'd give them something else to do besides punch stuff from afar.
    Hmm. I gave them open lock, thinking they could use their thoughttouch to open a door while fighting. Perhaps give them Disable Device and trapfinding, and put them up to 6 skill points? Telepathy and Diplomacy should help them kinda mastermind things a bit too.

    Now that the bitching is over, I do like the class. Sooooo, uh, good job (I always feel a little dickish for congratulating someone on something after doing the fine-tooth comb routine)?
    Haha. I'm used to it. And thanks!

    EDIT: Holy crap "****" has been unblocked. Now I can discuss 19th century whaling literature in peace!

    EDIT EDIT: Ooooor not. That's kind of odd. ****. Dickish. ****-ish. Dickly. **** Dastardly. Dickface. ****. Moby ****. **** Dastardly dickishly dicked Moby **** in the deal for *****. ****

    EDIT EDIT EDIT: Note that I didn't read the rest of the comments before posting this, sooooo.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: The Ascetic [3.5 Ranged Melee Class, Vaguely Monkish, Slightly Psionic]

    I meant it was psionic so it negates psionic DR.
    ...psionic what now? There's no such thing as psionic DR. There's Power resistance, but that's not the same thing.

    And it's meant to be Su. Ps is Sp, and they have a lot of extra rules baggage attached to them.
    True. Nevermind!

    And Thoughtfist is every fourth level, so not 20th level.
    Oh. That's kind of weak. All of the 3.0 monsters with DR X/+5 will be laughing in your face.

    Scorn Earth is pretty much copied verbatim from the Elocator. And personally, I don't like traps anyway. Besides being uninteractive, they were my first ever encounter in d&d, and TPKed.
    Elocator is a PrC you're not getting into until 7th level, at the least. And, uh, you really shouldn't design based on personal experiences like that. I'd wager that the vast majority of D&D groups will be running into traps, and the ability to go lolno to a lot of them is probably too good at 1st level.

    Concussion Blast is very much meant to be an equally valid as Thoughtfist, but not stronger. Is there a way I can make Thoughfist better without merely improving damage? Will I be forced to reduce Concussion Blast's damage?
    As I mentioned in the Edit*4, I would just completely scrap CB. There's no need for two entire class abilities centered around causing direct damage in an almost identical manner, since either A) one is going to get the shaft, and one will be better, as is now, or B) they will be functionally identical, and there is thus no reason to have two in the first place.

    (Also it would be this:
    10d8*4+Cha vs. 4d6*6+Cha*6+4 with a Charisma mod of +8 works out to 188 vs. 136)
    Noooo. Charisma is applied individually to each attack for a full-attack routine like that, so it'd be (10d8+Cha)*4. If it doesn't work like that, you need to specify. Also, where the heck are you getting six attacks from? I count 4 from BAB and then one from Thought Train.

    Hmm. What if I made the rarer types do d4s?
    Still probably too good, particularly for vile and co., and still open to abuse.

    Hm. Howabout stretching it out a bit, and giving them one energy type of choice (from a list) every 4-ish levels or so? That makes it a lot less like getting handed a giant Swiss Army knife at level 6 (everyone's still going to be grabbing acid at level 6, but whadda gonna do?). At 12th level, you can start grabbing sonic or force or whatever.

    Are meant to be good. Do you think the two are balanced with each other, or is one way better?
    Path of the Spirit is pretty clearly superior in every way. Deathless type+Incorporeal at will is really, really good. If you've taken 20 levels in this class, you're dedicated as hell to blasting, that lets you do it a lot better, and you're probably not going to go for PotF so you can start pseudo-Monking all of a sudden..

    Hmm. I gave them open lock, thinking they could use their thoughttouch to open a door while fighting. Perhaps give them Disable Device and trapfinding, and put them up to 6 skill points? Telepathy and Diplomacy should help them kinda mastermind things a bit too.
    Situational abilities, especially the kind that get completely negated at 3rd level (Knock! ) do not a tier make.

    And making them into a skill-monkey doesn't really make any sense. Again, I'd just scrap CB completely, and do something else that lets them get some non-blasting utility in there.
    Last edited by Mr.Bookworm; 2011-09-08 at 03:03 PM.
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    Default Re: The Ascetic [3.5 Ranged Melee Class, Vaguely Monkish, Slightly Psionic]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Bookworm View Post
    ...psionic what now? There's no such thing as psionic DR. There's Power resistance, but that's not the same thing.
    But there is DR/Magic, and Psionic pierces that.

    Oh. That's kind of weak. All of the 3.0 monsters with DR X/+5 will be laughing in your face.
    Oh no. See me tremble.

    Elocator is a PrC you're not getting into until 7th level, at the least. And, uh, you really shouldn't design based on personal experiences like that. I'd wager that the vast majority of D&D groups will be running into traps, and the ability to go lolno to a lot of them is probably too good at 1st level.
    It was more because I don't like the design idea.
    But yeah. How about they get a +class level bonus against traps, and get the immunity at 7th?

    As I mentioned in the Edit*4, I would just completely scrap CB. There's no need for two entire class abilities centered around causing direct damage in an almost identical manner, since either A) one is going to get the shaft, and one will be better, as is now, or B) they will be functionally identical, and there is thus no reason to have two in the first place.
    I really don't want to scrap it. My plan was to have CB have more special things, and more range. I'll lower the damage and boost the range.

    Noooo. Charisma is applied individually to each attack for a full-attack routine like that, so it'd be (10d8+Cha)*4. If it doesn't work like that, you need to specify. Also, where the heck are you getting six attacks from? I count 4 from BAB and then one from Thought Train.
    Oh. Derp. Sorry.
    Thought Cascade gives a second attack if you use your normal routine.

    Still probably too good, particularly for vile and co., and still open to abuse.

    Hm. Howabout stretching it out a bit, and giving them one energy type of choice (from a list) every 4-ish levels or so? That makes it a lot less like getting handed a giant Swiss Army knife at level 6 (everyone's still going to be grabbing acid at level 6, but whadda gonna do?). At 12th level, you can start grabbing sonic or force or whatever.
    That makes sense!

    Path of the Spirit is pretty clearly superior in every way. Deathless type+Incorporeal at will is really, really good. If you've taken 20 levels in this class, you're dedicated as hell to blasting, that lets you do it a lot better, and you're probably not going to go for PotF so you can start pseudo-Monking all of a sudden..
    Hmm. Thought so.
    Any suggestions for what I can add to PotF?

    Situational abilities, especially the kind that get completely negated at 3rd level (Knock! ) do not a tier make.

    And making them into a skill-monkey doesn't really make any sense. Again, I'd just scrap CB completely, and do something else that lets them get some non-blasting utility in there.
    Stupid knock...
    What kinda non combat stuff is there to add?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: The Ascetic [3.5 Ranged Melee Class, Vaguely Monkish, Slightly Psionic]

    PHP Code:
    What kinda non combat stuff is there to add
    Not necessarily non-combat; merely non-blaster. Utility is what really makes a class awesome; anyone can roll a handful of damage dice and add up the results, after all.

    Examples:
    -Use your mindfist thingy to lift party members/carry them places
    -Grant special effects on Grapples/Improves your grapple checks as a form of Crowd Control
    -Block incoming AoE attacks/create cover with telekinetic force
    -Pull/push/drag opponents (or yourself) to opportune places (provoking attacks of opportunity as they are moved)
    -Allow certain physicals skills like Athletics and Acrobatics to use Int/Cha instead of Dex/Str, since you use your telekinetic abilities to manipulate footholds and such, to climb, jump, maybe keep your balance, and even propel yourself through the water
    -Allow for the use of enchanted projectiles, like arrows, bolts, bullets and shuriken. They would deal normal weapon damage (fist), but function like ordinary enchanted ammunition in every respect. (interesting for special effect enchantments). This ammunition can just 'ride' on the telekinetic punch, and maybe alter the type to piercing where applicable. (This has the benefit of creating awesome visuals).

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    Default Re: The Ascetic [3.5 Ranged Melee Class, Vaguely Monkish, Slightly Psionic]

    You can already do the first one, and a feat allows the last one. Some of the rest seem pretty cool though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: The Ascetic [3.5 Ranged Melee Class, Vaguely Monkish, Slightly Psionic]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    And now I want to write a melee archer class. Thanks a lot Kamiyachiru.
    No prob.

    This comment actually made me want to watch Inglourious Basterds again due to the gun punch in there.

    At any rate, seeing the ton of comments, I figured now I'll wait until the brunt of it has died down as I guess there might be a few changes here or there. I'd just thought I'd mention though, that Spirit Strike says "Concussive Bolt" rather than Concussive Blast.
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    Default Re: The Ascetic [3.5 Ranged Melee Class, Vaguely Monkish, Slightly Psionic]

    Oops. Thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: The Ascetic [3.5 Ranged Melee Class, Vaguely Monkish, Slightly Psionic]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    But there is DR/Magic, and Psionic pierces that.
    Then you need to say magic, since psionic damage still isn't actually a thing.

    It was more because I don't like the design idea.
    But yeah. How about they get a +class level bonus against traps, and get the immunity at 7th?
    Makes some sense, actually. Not a flat bonus to traps, which doesn't make a lot of sense, but hmmm...

    Given that the class is all about exerting pressure on things from afar (albeit usually with more violence), howabout halving your weight for each class level, since you're "pushing" against the ground until you get the actual flying ability. So at first level, your weight on the ground is halved (even if you're floating a foot above it), at second level it's 1/4, at third it's 1/8, at fourth it's 1/16, at fifth it's 1/32, and at sixth it's 1/64. Would screw with a lot of pressure-plate traps.

    I really don't want to scrap it. My plan was to have CB have more special things, and more range. I'll lower the damage and boost the range.
    I can certainly understand not wanting to cut something you wrote, but I really can't see any sort of need for it. It's basically just an unnecessary addition that upstages the main ability while duplicating it. Even if you fix it so you'd want to use your Thoughtfist, it's still basically just the exact same thing but a little different, and there's pretty much no way around that without completely changing the ability. Why not just give them some stuff that can alter their Thoughtfist and call it a day? If you want to keep the "long range, lower damage" ability, howabout adding in a class feature that lets them take damage penalties to increase the range of the attack?

    Any suggestions for what I can add to PotF?
    Uh. Really not sure. Anything I can think of would just make it a poor man's Monk (er, poor man's Unarmed Swordsage). I'll try to think of something.

    ...speaking of which, why does PotS turn you into a deathless? I can see what you were going for there, but in base D&D cosmology, the deathless are pretty strictly Good Guysô.

    What kinda non combat stuff is there to add?
    Well, as Dryad pointed out, more combat stuff besides mindfistpunch action would be good.

    Other than that, stuff building off of "telekinetic shenanigans" would be good. "Enlightenment" based stuff (whatever form that takes) would work.
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    Default Re: The Ascetic [3.5 Ranged Melee Class, Vaguely Monkish, Slightly Psionic]

    Bookworm:
    So at first level, your weight on the ground is halved (even if you're floating a foot above it), at second level it's 1/4, at third it's 1/8, at fourth it's 1/16, at fifth it's 1/32, and at sixth it's 1/64. Would screw with a lot of pressure-plate traps.
    I like this variant.
    *nods*
    Very much approve of it.
    Last edited by Dryad; 2011-09-09 at 08:14 AM.

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    Default Re: The Ascetic [3.5 Ranged Melee Class, Vaguely Monkish, Slightly Psionic]

    What is "ranged melee"? I just can't visualise what the intended imagery is here.

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    Default Re: The Ascetic [3.5 Ranged Melee Class, Vaguely Monkish, Slightly Psionic]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Bookworm View Post
    Then you need to say magic, since psionic damage still isn't actually a thing.
    I edited that. :P

    Makes some sense, actually. Not a flat bonus to traps, which doesn't make a lot of sense, but hmmm...

    Given that the class is all about exerting pressure on things from afar (albeit usually with more violence), howabout halving your weight for each class level, since you're "pushing" against the ground until you get the actual flying ability. So at first level, your weight on the ground is halved (even if you're floating a foot above it), at second level it's 1/4, at third it's 1/8, at fourth it's 1/16, at fifth it's 1/32, and at sixth it's 1/64. Would screw with a lot of pressure-plate traps.
    I guess...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dryad View Post
    Bookworm:

    I like this variant.
    *nods*
    Very much approve of it.
    Okay then.

    I can certainly understand not wanting to cut something you wrote, but I really can't see any sort of need for it. It's basically just an unnecessary addition that upstages the main ability while duplicating it. Even if you fix it so you'd want to use your Thoughtfist, it's still basically just the exact same thing but a little different, and there's pretty much no way around that without completely changing the ability. Why not just give them some stuff that can alter their Thoughtfist and call it a day? If you want to keep the "long range, lower damage" ability, howabout adding in a class feature that lets them take damage penalties to increase the range of the attack?
    I guess...

    Uh. Really not sure. Anything I can think of would just make it a poor man's Monk (er, poor man's Unarmed Swordsage). I'll try to think of something.
    Well, I like to think it'd be a rich man's monk.

    ...speaking of which, why does PotS turn you into a deathless? I can see what you were going for there, but in base D&D cosmology, the deathless are pretty strictly Good Guysô.
    Cause incorporeal, as far as I remembered, was mostly for undead. Can you have an incorporeal not-undead?
    It's meant to be the spirit without the flesh, so... outsider?

    Well, as Dryad pointed out, more combat stuff besides mindfistpunch action would be good.
    Right... I'll try to think of something.

    Other than that, stuff building off of "telekinetic shenanigans" would be good. "Enlightenment" based stuff (whatever form that takes) would work.
    I'll try, I suppose. Perhaps I'll go with your earlier suggestion of some minor invocation style things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashtagon View Post
    What is "ranged melee"? I just can't visualise what the intended imagery is here.
    You punch people, but at range.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: The Ascetic [3.5 Ranged Melee Class, Vaguely Monkish, Slightly Psionic]

    A Monstrous Humanoid with the Incorporeal subtype: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/unbodied.htm

    So no, they don't have to be undead to be incorporeal, its just that most are because when you think of incorporeal you think of ghosts.
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    Default Re: The Ascetic [3.5 Ranged Melee Class, Vaguely Monkish, Slightly Psionic]

    Huh. I should change that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: The Ascetic [3.5 Ranged Melee Class, Vaguely Monkish, Slightly Psionic]

    Okay! I added some 'invocations' to give it a little utility. I also removed Spirit Fuels the Flesh cause it was a badly fitting filler, and the Understandings give me more things.
    Also modded Path of the Spirit to not be Deathless. Is it too weak now?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: The Ascetic [3.5 Ranged Melee Class, Vaguely Monkish, Slightly Psionic]

    This class is awesome. A monkish bruiser that hits people with his mind.
    I love it, that its flavoured psionics is even better.

    Now on to my 2 copper.

    Fluff: When I read your reasons for people to become ascetics I automatically thought "This is what Charles Xavier could be if he was more violently inclined".
    A paraplegic riding around in a wheelchair driven by his powers and fistfighting big guys by staring at them hard ... and winning. It just screams awesome.

    Hitdice: A d6 is oddly appropriate as you are a quasi-ranged class that by standard ability loadout is more skill-based.

    Skills: UMD should be use psionic device i think? That they dislike their reliance on their body makes me think they should generally be interested in "out there", maybe knowledge planes? Also, I think sense motive might be good for a class that is all about the mind.

    BAB/Saves: The Dual BAB is fun and the saves are what you would expect.

    Class Abilities:

    Spoiler
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    Proficiencies: While I generally have nothing against this class only being proficient in unarmed strikes, it renders the "Weapons of the mind" feat somewhat useless. Maybe at least proficient in all simple weapons, or standard monk weapons?

    Mental Prowess: This makes the class fun to multiclass into other psionic classes. A nice touch that the mental BAB is not only for Ascetic abilities.

    Thoughtfist: The center of the class. Melee at range is something that I often wished I had for characters (especially when trying to recreate the old final fantasies where you slash in the air and hurt the enemy).
    The range gets huge later on to the point where you effectively are a ranged class for anything but long range combat.
    The only thing you should consider rewording is the "does force damage part", maybe replace it with "hits like a force effect for the purpose of overcoming miss-chances" or something like it as at this point actual force damage isn't in the ascetics repertoire.
    One big question however would be how you count your threatened space? I doubt you threaten everything within range since that would get ridiculous.
    You say that items/feats/etc that advance monk levels also advance ascetic abilities. I guess only in relation to thoughtfist.
    However, does this advancement only advance damage or also the enhacement bonus? (This is unclear as the bonus is given in the same paragraph, not as a standalone class ability)
    I also hope you will make an epic progression for this class since I want to see where it goes there.
    I like the damage progression a lot better than the monk's progression as this one at least follows the standard pattern for natural weapon damage.
    The penalties for heavy armor and shields are a nice addition and the ability to at least try to keep up the fist in an AMF is great.

    Psionic Talent: Necessary and fitting.

    Scorn Earth: Very interesting minor effect. Constant feather fall is always useful and at level 7 you can walk across water easily. (Once more Xavier's floaty wheel-chair comes to mind)

    Psychic shift: The ability is fitting. Someone who can psychic-punch people from afar should have some sort of defense in place.

    Strategic Thoughts: Incredible ability. Mage hand at-will as a move action alone is fun, but then you get to make all those fun maneuvers without any threat on failing. Its pure gold. You can stay behind the group and simply trip/bullrush/grapple without needing to be there. Even if you lose the check you run into no problems.

    Train of thought: A rapid-shot like ability with a staggered application of the improved version. So basically you get to apply two ranged feats to melee combat over the course of several levels. Its great.

    Thought Cascade: Another attack at no penalty is something every melee class wants, but the real kicker is the cascade itself. It all comes down on wether you feel lucky. At this point your normal attack BAB wise is 16/16/16/11/6/1. If you have trouble hitting the enemy at all, you'll probably want that one, but if you can hit the enmy easily, the cascade potentially offers you a better chance. However at this point you actually run less of a chance I think. The Cascade would be 16/14/12/10/8/6 for the same number of attempts. The first 4 shots therefore are at a less than normal chance to hit the enemy. The Cascade would make much more sense in earlier levels when you don't yet have so many assured attacks per round.

    Improved/Fortress of mind: Will-Mettle is always great.

    Understandings: Will comment on them at the end.

    Inflamed blast: (maybe call it "Energized Fist"?) The reduction in damage is minor for some nice effects. The step by step availability of different types is fun (though you have a typo on Colt, that gives me the fun image of pistol-whipping an enemy with you mind). If you use actual force now, do incorporeal creatures still only take half damage?
    The 15th level and beyond abilities are probably hard to think up.

    Scorn the Surface: Flight is great for this class. And making scorn Earth (Ex) is a lot of fun. The improved version upon reaching 15 is a fitting upgrade.

    Perfected Thoughttouch: You now are the perfect trap defuser if you can get the ability from somewhere. Since you can do so at 70ft+ virtually no trap will ever actually hit you.
    However, the multi-hand ability brings with it some problems. As you already described you can't use the hands for attacks with weapons. But what about wands? Could you feasably engage 4 several of them in the same round? This is an ability that is hard to define so that it can't be abused.

    Thoughts of metal: So ascetics dislike fey and lycanthropes? Weirdly fitting, with fey being so flighty they appear to not value what they have and Lycanthropes being so rooted in their flesh its most likely sickening to an ascetic.

    Deny the world: Strangely late for a minor bonus, but considering everything else its okay.

    I need not words: Telepathy is always great and with two modifiers in there you will always get a good range.

    Thoughts of Belief: The poor true neutrals. But I like it nonetheless.

    Spirit Strike: Oh boy. Basically NO. I don't quite know what the opinion of others is, but a d4 of ability damage with no save per hit seems a bit excessive. Lets say you hit twice in your full attack. thats 2d4 already. Considering that you can also choose the ability means you'll be able to drop many monsters by virtue of knowledge checks alone. It simply seems a bit powerful to me.

    Thoughts of might: Adamantine is great. Sadly you only get it for the purpose of DR so you can't overcome hardness when you punch walls. The extra threat range is incredible considering its before modifiers.

    Irresistable Force: Hmmm, extra damage. Its an interesting upgrade to the last levels adamantine ability. Though I don't quite get the differentiation between alignment based damage and normal damage you make.

    Choose the path: Even now I'd say the mind path is stronger. Being incorporeal and getting more AC simply is better. I'd say to balance the two, give the regeneration aspect to the Body path. It fits in with the regenerating limbs aspect anyway. That way the body is more focused on taking and repairing damage, while the mind type is focused on avoiding damage.

    Feats:

    Spoiler
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    Alternate Path: This one can be great, though the minmaxer in me automatically wants to know wether it affects the charisma-bonus-deflection of the mind path.

    Weapons of the mind: As I said earlier, this one needs some actual proficiencies.

    Rapid Knowledge: Useful for spammers.

    Items: The Bracers: Fitting and something that always should be available for unarmed combatants.

    Understandings:

    Spoiler
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    The auto-augment feature is useful. But in most cases it also makes further augmentations less of a priority unless its 24h buffs that fully augmented get an ability a bit higher.

    Minor:

    Spoiler
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    Decieve the Senses: Insidious fun especially once you hit level 14 and can run around making things appear different than they are randomly.

    Sense Intelligence: 1mile/ML seriously? Most of the time this will make tracking so much easier, unless of course you are in a city, then you will most likely die from mental overload.

    Shockwave: Problem with this one. Since the burst is given as a radius, your area rapidly approaches your range so at some point you will have to subject your friends to it. I'd suggest making the area "a burst with a radius up to" or making the range medium.

    Mental Reinforcement: As is you only get one try of guessing which save to boost today (unless you dispell yourself). Maybe making it dismissable?


    Major:

    Spoiler
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    Mind unparalleled: A fitting boost to the abilities you specialize in. At the same time you can emulate it with items, making it a balanced decision on wether to take it or not.

    Psionic Blast: Generally you don't really want to be within 30' of the enemy. The increasing stun durations are nice.

    Sight without sight: Best thing since sliced bread. Blindsight is awesome and considering that this blindsight starts at 50'-90' and goes up as you level makes it pretty much a guaranteed pick.

    Wind's gift: With Scorn surface available this one only has use as a way to help allys and that is severely hampered by the one-only rule. Without that rule it would be a decent to good pick.


    Greater:

    Spoiler
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    In the blink of an eye: at-will teleport at level 13 seems a bit early. This can lead to a lot of hijinks.

    Plane of force: Take the one-only rule away from Wind's gift and put it here, because here its really needed. Without it, people will start to wall off villages for the lulz.

    Strenght of mind: The way this one works is very well done. The bonuses while substantial arent overly big and neatly balance the rare slot you used up to take the understanding.

    Trick of the Mind: Poetntially too powerful. Shadow Conjuration AND Evocation rolled into one, even with only 20% realism is very powerful in the hands of someone who knows a lot of spells


    Deep:

    Spoiler
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    Localized Control: The limitation is a good thing and makes it fun but balanced.

    Lockdown: Are you affected? what happens if you walk into another AMF? This one has great potential but makes my head hurt with possible shenanigans.

    Mental Onslaught: Guaranteed damage on anything that doesn't have a will-mettle ability. Its good for this level, if a bit bland.

    Travel beyond eternity:
    Plane Shift is useful.
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    Default Re: The Ascetic [3.5 Ranged Melee Class, Vaguely Monkish, Slightly Psionic]

    Quote Originally Posted by Re'ozul View Post
    This class is awesome. A monkish bruiser that hits people with his mind.
    I love it, that its flavoured psionics is even better.

    Now on to my 2 copper.

    Fluff: When I read your reasons for people to become ascetics I automatically thought "This is what Charles Xavier could be if he was more violently inclined".
    A paraplegic riding around in a wheelchair driven by his powers and fistfighting big guys by staring at them hard ... and winning. It just screams awesome.
    Pfffhaha. This is great, cause he was one of the main inspirations. xD

    Hitdice: A d6 is oddly appropriate as you are a quasi-ranged class that by standard ability loadout is more skill-based.

    Skills: UMD should be use psionic device i think? That they dislike their reliance on their body makes me think they should generally be interested in "out there", maybe knowledge planes? Also, I think sense motive might be good for a class that is all about the mind.
    I'm assuming Psionics/Magic Transparency. Sense Motive and Planes are good ideas.

    Class Abilities:

    Proficiencies: While I generally have nothing against this class only being proficient in unarmed strikes, it renders the "Weapons of the mind" feat somewhat useless. Maybe at least proficient in all simple weapons, or standard monk weapons?
    Hmm. Okay, simple weapons.

    Mental Prowess: This makes the class fun to multiclass into other psionic classes. A nice touch that the mental BAB is not only for Ascetic abilities.
    Thanks.

    T
    houghtfist: The center of the class. Melee at range is something that I often wished I had for characters (especially when trying to recreate the old final fantasies where you slash in the air and hurt the enemy).
    You could fluff it like that.

    The only thing you should consider rewording is the "does force damage part", maybe replace it with "hits like a force effect for the purpose of overcoming miss-chances" or something like it as at this point actual force damage isn't in the ascetics repertoire.
    ...derp. That's a problem, cause it IS meant to be force damage. Force in Inflamed Blast is from an earlier version. Hmm.

    One big question however would be how you count your threatened space? I doubt you threaten everything within range since that would get ridiculous.
    Oooh, good catch.

    You say that items/feats/etc that advance monk levels also advance ascetic abilities. I guess only in relation to thoughtfist.
    However, does this advancement only advance damage or also the enhacement bonus? (This is unclear as the bonus is given in the same paragraph, not as a standalone class ability)
    Damage, unless the DM is using a monk fix that has an enhancement bonus that is improved by things.

    I also hope you will make an epic progression for this class since I want to see where it goes there.
    ...maybe. Probably not anywhere interesting. xD

    I like the damage progression a lot better than the monk's progression as this one at least follows the standard pattern for natural weapon damage.
    I based it on my favourite monk fix and had the damage start one lower.

    The penalties for heavy armor and shields are a nice addition and the ability to at least try to keep up the fist in an AMF is great.

    Psionic Talent: Necessary and fitting.
    Thanks.

    Scorn Earth: Very interesting minor effect. Constant feather fall is always useful and at level 7 you can walk across water easily. (Once more Xavier's floaty wheel-chair comes to mind)

    Psychic shift: The ability is fitting. Someone who can psychic-punch people from afar should have some sort of defense in place.

    Strategic Thoughts: Incredible ability. Mage hand at-will as a move action alone is fun, but then you get to make all those fun maneuvers without any threat on failing. Its pure gold. You can stay behind the group and simply trip/bullrush/grapple without needing to be there. Even if you lose the check you run into no problems.
    Incredible good or incredible broken?

    Train of thought: A rapid-shot like ability with a staggered application of the improved version. So basically you get to apply two ranged feats to melee combat over the course of several levels. Its great.
    Actually it's more 'Flurry of Blows.'

    Thought Cascade: Another attack at no penalty is something every melee class wants, but the real kicker is the cascade itself. It all comes down on wether you feel lucky. At this point your normal attack BAB wise is 16/16/16/11/6/1. If you have trouble hitting the enemy at all, you'll probably want that one, but if you can hit the enmy easily, the cascade potentially offers you a better chance. However at this point you actually run less of a chance I think. The Cascade would be 16/14/12/10/8/6 for the same number of attempts. The first 4 shots therefore are at a less than normal chance to hit the enemy. The Cascade would make much more sense in earlier levels when you don't yet have so many assured attacks per round.
    Maybe... I mostly put this in cause it sounded cool, rather than being strong.

    Inflamed blast: (maybe call it "Energized Fist"?) The reduction in damage is minor for some nice effects. The step by step availability of different types is fun (though you have a typo on Colt, that gives me the fun image of pistol-whipping an enemy with you mind). If you use actual force now, do incorporeal creatures still only take half damage?
    That name is a relic of a previous version, but I quite like it. Will fix typo, and force will do full damage.
    The 15th level and beyond abilities are probably hard to think up.

    Perfected Thoughttouch: You now are the perfect trap defuser if you can get the ability from somewhere. Since you can do so at 70ft+ virtually no trap will ever actually hit you.
    However, the multi-hand ability brings with it some problems. As you already described you can't use the hands for attacks with weapons. But what about wands? Could you feasably engage 4 several of them in the same round? This is an ability that is hard to define so that it can't be abused.
    Nope. It gives you extra hands, but not extra actions.... sorta. Will clarify.

    Thoughts of metal: So ascetics dislike fey and lycanthropes? Weirdly fitting, with fey being so flighty they appear to not value what they have and Lycanthropes being so rooted in their flesh its most likely sickening to an ascetic.
    That one's mostly a filler ability, but is sometimes very useful.

    Deny the world: Strangely late for a minor bonus, but considering everything else its okay.
    Mostly fluff.

    Spirit Strike: Oh boy. Basically NO. I don't quite know what the opinion of others is, but a d4 of ability damage with no save per hit seems a bit excessive. Lets say you hit twice in your full attack. thats 2d4 already. Considering that you can also choose the ability means you'll be able to drop many monsters by virtue of knowledge checks alone. It simply seems a bit powerful to me.
    Ahh! I'm sure there was meant to be a will save negates, or at least reduces. (Edits)

    Thoughts of might: Adamantine is great. Sadly you only get it for the purpose of DR so you can't overcome hardness when you punch walls. The extra threat range is incredible considering its before modifiers.
    Who says? it just says they're treated as being adamantine. It's cold iron and silver that specify for DR.

    Irresistable Force: Hmmm, extra damage. Its an interesting upgrade to the last levels adamantine ability. Though I don't quite get the differentiation between alignment based damage and normal damage you make.
    If you punch an enemy with DR epic, you ignore the DR.
    If you punch an enemy with DR cold iron and you have cold iron thoughts active, you do +2d6 damage of whatever type you're using-let's say force.
    If you punch an enemy with DR good and you're Good, you do +2d6 holy damage.

    Choose the path: Even now I'd say the mind path is stronger. Being incorporeal and getting more AC simply is better. I'd say to balance the two, give the regeneration aspect to the Body path. It fits in with the regenerating limbs aspect anyway. That way the body is more focused on taking and repairing damage, while the mind type is focused on avoiding damage.
    Good idea. I was worried that removing the deathless part would overbalance it.

    Alternate Path: This one can be great, though the minmaxer in me automatically wants to know wether it affects the charisma-bonus-deflection of the mind path.
    xD
    No.

    Weapons of the mind: As I said earlier, this one needs some actual proficiencies.
    Mostly for multiclass, or using proficiency feats for fluff reasons.

    Rapid Knowledge: Useful for spammers.
    I wanted focussing on the invocations to be possible, but not the main idea.

    Understandings: Will comment on them at the end.

    Understandings:

    The auto-augment feature is useful. But in most cases it also makes further augmentations less of a priority unless its 24h buffs that fully augmented get an ability a bit higher.
    Didn't want to give them a proper power point progression, this seemed like a good compromise.

    Sense Intelligence: 1mile/ML seriously? Most of the time this will make tracking so much easier, unless of course you are in a city, then you will most likely die from mental overload.
    The original thought was to use it to find a city when lost in the desert.

    Shockwave: Problem with this one. Since the burst is given as a radius, your area rapidly approaches your range so at some point you will have to subject your friends to it. I'd suggest making the area "a burst with a radius up to" or making the range medium.
    Intentional. Although it shouldn't hurt you.

    Mental Reinforcement: As is you only get one try of guessing which save to boost today (unless you dispell yourself). Maybe making it dismissable?
    I copypastad that one from the Warlock one.

    Mind unparalleled: A fitting boost to the abilities you specialize in. At the same time you can emulate it with items, making it a balanced decision on wether to take it or not.
    Hopefully it lags behind the items a little.

    Psionic Blast: Generally you don't really want to be within 30' of the enemy. The increasing stun durations are nice.
    I was just picking interesting powers/spells by this point. ^_^''

    Sight without sight: Best thing since sliced bread. Blindsight is awesome and considering that this blindsight starts at 50'-90' and goes up as you level makes it pretty much a guaranteed pick.
    Too good?
    Be a blind badass. This class could model Toph.

    Wind's gift: With Scorn surface available this one only has use as a way to help allys and that is severely hampered by the one-only rule. Without that rule it would be a decent to good pick.
    Well, as it's at will, it'd be TOO good if you could just make everyone fly permanently.

    In the blink of an eye: at-will teleport at level 13 seems a bit early. This can lead to a lot of hijinks.
    A wizard can teleport at level 9, and dimension door at 7. By 13, even a Sorcerer is managing 6th level spells regularly.

    Plane of force: Take the one-only rule away from Wind's gift and put it here, because here its really needed. Without it, people will start to wall off villages for the lulz.
    ...see, that mental image just makes me giggle.

    Strenght of mind: The way this one works is very well done. The bonuses while substantial arent overly big and neatly balance the rare slot you used up to take the understanding.
    Thank you.

    Trick of the Mind: Poetntially too powerful. Shadow Conjuration AND Evocation rolled into one, even with only 20% realism is very powerful in the hands of someone who knows a lot of spells
    Do you think so?

    Deep:

    Localized Control: The limitation is a good thing and makes it fun but balanced.
    Yay!

    Lockdown: Are you affected? what happens if you walk into another AMF? This one has great potential but makes my head hurt with possible shenanigans.
    You ARE affected. And if you walk into another AMF, yours is suppressed until you leave.

    Mental Onslaught: Guaranteed damage on anything that doesn't have a will-mettle ability. Its good for this level, if a bit bland.
    I have a soft spot for Mind Thrust. A huge one.

    Travel beyond eternity:
    Plane Shift is useful.
    Indeed!
    Last edited by Lix Lorn; 2011-09-27 at 03:22 PM.
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  30. - Top - End - #30
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Ascetic [3.5 Ranged Melee Class, Vaguely Monkish, Slightly Psionic]

    I like the treatened reach limit you put on thoughtfist. Its still pretty dangerous (especially later with the extra attacks) but not ridiculously so.

    You still have the force damage bit in the original Thoughtfist. The problem here is simply that force damage is considered an energy and as such always bypasses DR. Thats why I suggested "hits like a force effect" instead of "deals force damage" since force damage itself is the best kind of damage in the entire system as virtually nothing is resistant to it. If you make it force damage from the beginning no one is going to use the Inflamed blast energies (fire/cold etc) unless they know the enmy is vulnerable to them. Force damage from the beginning is simply too powerful.

    Are strategic thoughts broken:
    Considering we are talking about melee here, i doubt it. Though since and ascetic will most likely be the secondary melee character in a party it can be very strong. I am not good with maneuvers as I rarely use them. Since it greatly fits the character I'd say leave it as is, though more versed people may say something else.

    Thought Cascade:
    While its nice in the flavour kind of way, at the level it is granted it doesn't really grant any benefit unless you are really lucky.
    My thought would be either of two possibilities:
    1. Allow its use as a standard action. That way when you would normally get 3 attacks from the train of thought progression, you can get more and the cumulative penalty acts as a balancer. Are you more likely to hit with 16/16/16 or 16/14/12/10/... Its still a gamble, but one that balances the potential reward better.
    2. make the Cascade available from the beginning of train of thought, and at level 16 reduce the penalty to -1. That way you get 16/16/16/11/6/1 or a potential 16/15/14/13/12/11/... which is balanced by the fact that in the second one you have to hit always to get the next attack (the damage requirement is secondary as by now you can do full force damage that few things can resist). You still get worse attack bonuses on the first 3 attacks, but starting on the 4th you are a lot better than a normal full attack)

    Spirit Strike: The wording "one point per dice" is weird. I assume you mean a will save reduces the damage to 1 per attack. Thats still powerful, but no longer overly so You are still a massive threat to anything with low mental scores but at least you won't instakill as much.

    Thoughts of might: Ah I see. I had assumed it would be the same as with cold iron and silver since you mention them in the same sentence. In this case its great.

    The paths: Yep, I'd say they are now equal, probably.

    Shockwave: Yes it doesn't hurt you, but can hurt your allies and thats never really good, especially in encounters with fewer enemies than party members.

    Psionic Blast: Cool as it is, its still too close. My suggestion would be to make it a single target close range power that grants one more target whenever stun duration increases with all targets needing to be within 20' of each other (10' if you want it to be more bunched together)

    Sight without sight: I wouldn't say too good. Yeah it makes you a blind badass who can basically walk around with a blindfold on all day, but as a passive buff its not too strong as most ranges greater than 60' are gratuitous anyway and just are cool in a "I can do that" way, and less meaningful in the mechanics way.

    Wind's gift: here I#d have to disagree that it would be too powerful. You are giving something that is less useful than the Fly spell spell. Furthermore to get about equal to Fly you need to be lvl 19 if you don't want to run out of power fast. 30' average flight for everyone is not overpowered at level 9. It just makes you a much more valuable contributor to the party.

    Plane of Force: The restriction you put in fits and limits shenanigans while still making it a very useful ability. Its a lot more balanced now, though still plenty strong.

    Trick of mind. As I said, it depends on how well versed the players are in spells. Like everything it can be broken. Granted its not too bad.
    However I think you are missing spell-level restrictions in the description.

    Lockdown: I am affected huh? That means I'll only be able to use my own thoughtfist half the time. Its still good, but weird.
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