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    Default [3.5e PrC] Favored of Deneir v1.3[PEACH]

    Hey homebrewers. As my second foray into homebrewing, I decided to create a class that I’ve been thinking about for a while based on one of my favorite FR characters, Cadderly Bonaduce. I enjoyed making this class, so be sure to let me know what you all think.

    Favored of Deneir

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    “Because a single life is worth saving.”
    -Cadderly Bonaduce, when asked why he would risk death for a stranger


    Favored of Deneir are not made. Rather, from their birth to their death they are graced with Deneir’s special favor. As Deneir values introspection and finding one’s own answers, such individuals often are not even aware of their chosen status. It is not until they first find affinity with the Tome of Universal Harmony and commune with Deneir that they realize the special course their lives must take.

    BECOMING A Favored of a Deneir

    ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
    Alignment: Must be a non-evil alignment
    Skills: Knowledge (Religion) 8 Ranks, Knowledge (any other) 8 ranks, Concentration 5 ranks
    Divine Spellcasting: Must be able to cast 4th level cleric spells.
    Special: Must worship Deneir
    Special: Must have found and read from the Tome of Universal Harmony, the holy book of Deneir, without being consumed by it’s song (DC 25 Concentration check).

    Class Skills

    Concentration (Con), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (All, taken separately), Listen (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Use Magic Device (Cha)

    Skills Points at Each Level: 4 + int

    Hit Dice: d8

    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special| Spellcasting

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |Song of Universal Harmony (full round), Knowledge to be Revered|

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |Divine Knowledge|+1 level of divine spell-casting class

    3rd|
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |Knowledge Seeker|+1 level of divine spell-casting class

    4th|
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Eidetic Memory, Song of Universal Harmony (standard action)|+1 level of divine spell-casting class

    5th|
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Song of Universal Harmony (1/2 Wisdom modifier)|

    6th|
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |Shield of Knowledge|+1 level of divine spell-casting class

    7th|
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |A Little Knowledge is a Dangerous Thing|+1 level of divine spell-casting class

    8th|
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +2
    |
    +6
    |Song of Universal Harmony (move action)|+1 level of divine spell-casting class

    9th|
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +3
    |
    +6
    |Beacon of Knowledge|+1 level of divine spell-casting class

    10th|
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    | One with Knowledge|+1 level of divine spell-casting class
    [/table]

    Weapon Proficiencies: Favored of Deneir are proficient with all simple weapons, and gain proficiency with quarterstaves and crossbows. If they already have proficiency with one or both, they gain Weapon Focus for the weapon(s) as a bonus feat at 1st level. They are proficient with light and medium armor, but not shields.

    Spellcasting: At each level except 1st and 5th you gain new spells per day and an increase in caster level (and spells known, if applicable) as if you had also gained a level in a divine spellcasting class to which you belonged before adding the prestige class level. You do not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If you had more than one divine spellcasting class before becoming a Favored of Deneir, you must decide to which class to add each level for the purpose of determining spells per day, caster level, and spells known (if applicable).

    There is a caveat however. Favored of Deneir can under no circumstances participate in or allow the destruction of any book, scroll, tapestry etc. containing knowledge of any kind, unless there are truly extraordinary extenuating circumstances (such as the destruction of an evil relic in the form of a tome or that details the summoning of Demon Lords, etc.). Should any of the above occur, the Favored of Deneir loses their ability to cast spells, as well as all other class features until such time as they go on a personal quest to regain Deneir’s favor. Examples include the recovery of lost Deneirrath scrolls from ancient ruins, going to the lair of an ancient red dragon and recovering a book of great magical power and importance, etc.
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    This generally does not refer to personal correspondence, a book full of children’s drawings, shopping lists, etc. It refers to legitimate sources of knowledge, such as might be found in a University Library or monastery, etc. DM’s are urged to use their good judgment.


    Song of Universal Harmony (Su): Beginning at 1st level, you no longer cast spells in the manner of other divine spellcasters. Your spells, while still prepared ahead of time, are drawn directly from the Metatext rather than through prayer. Each day, you must engage in a half hour of meditation, choosing your spells for the day. Rather than being locked in however, your spell choices may be changed thanks to Deneir's grace. A number of times per day equal 1+(1/2 your Favored of Deneir levels), you may switch out your spells for any others on your list as long as you swap out your spells for those of equal or lower levels. To do so, you must spend a full round action in meditation. At 4th level, this becomes a standard action. At 8th level, this becomes a move action.

    At 5th level, you may add 1/2 your Wisdom modifier to the number of times you may use your Song of Universal Harmony ability.

    There is a price for drawing on the Song of Universal Harmony however. In exchange for this wondrous power, you must study from the Tome of Universal Harmony once per week for 8 uninterrupted hours. At the close of the 8-hour period, you must make a DC 20 concentration check (for levels 1-5) or a DC 25 Concentration check (from levels 6-10) or continue reading for an additional hour. If you are forced to read for an additional two hours, you are consider fatigued, an additional three hours results in exhaustion and an additional four hours results in the Favored of Deneir falling unconscious for the day from mental strain.

    At any time after the first failed check, you may choose to forgo further reading at the cost of your spontaneous spellcasting. You can still cast cleric spells as normal through daily preparation and may attempt to regain spontaneous casting again in seven days.

    Knowledge to be Revered (Su): As a Favored of Deneir, you hold all knowledge to be of immense value. All knowledge skills are forever class skills for you.

    Divine Knowledge (Su): Beginning at 2nd level, you gain a bonus to knowledge checks equal to 1/2 of your Favored of Deneir class level. Furthermore, Scholar's Touch, Identify and Comprehend Language are added to your spell list.

    Knowledge Seeker (Su): Beginning at 3nd level, Favored of Deneir gain the ability to sense any source of knowledge (such as books, scrolls, etc.) from a distance of 50 feet. They automatically know the direction the object is in, as well as it’s distance. The ability extends out for an additional 10 feet every two levels of Favored of Deneir, starting at 4th level.

    Eidetic Memory (Su): Beginning at 4th level, you have begun honing your mind to a state of near-perfection. At any time you come across a useful piece of information, you may make a Concentration check with a DC of 10+2(number of pieces of information already stored) to hold the information in your mind with perfect accuracy. You may make only one check for any given piece of information. Any piece of information you successfully memorize can be recalled with perfect accuracy at any later date.

    Shield of Knowledge (Ex): By 6th level, a Favored of Deneir has begun to appreciate knowledge's immense power to defend those in need. Therefore, a Favored of Deneir may now gain a bonus to AC equal to 1/2 their Wisdom modifier, as well as an additional +1 for every five pieces of information memorized through the Eidetic Memory class feature.

    A Little Knowledge is a Dangerous Thing (Ex): By 7th level, a Favored of Deneir has realized that just as knowledge can serve as a shield, so too can it serve as a sword. Favored of Deneir may add their Wisdom modifier to attack and damage rolls rather than their strength modifier.

    Beacon of Knowledge (Ex): At 9th level, Favored of Deneir have gained greater insight into the purpose of knowledge. They have come to see that knowledge is best shared, and should not be hoarded. Favored of Deneir may now grant their allies a bonus to AC equal to that gained by the Shield of Knowledge class feature as long as those allies remain within a 30 foot radius of the Favored of Deneir.

    One with Knowledge (Su): At 10th level, you have fully immersed yourself in Deneir’s teachings. WIP

    Favored of Deneir IN THE WORLD

    He is truly one with his god. I cannot help but admire such inner peace.
    -Lady Danica Mauisspont


    Generally, Favored of Deneir are perceived as extremely wise and helpful, no matter their age. Those who understand their calling tend to go out of their way to aid the Favored in their quest for the discovery and preservation of knowledge.

    Daily Life: Favored of Deneir tend towards a life of scholarship, spending their years at universities, libraries, or personal sanctuaries in the pursuit of knowledge. Due to their particular affinity to Deneir, they are often highly placed in such institutions, and are generally considered scholars of the first order. That said, many Favored of Deneir do wander the land, either in the hopes of exploration, uncovering knowledge long forgotten to the world, or out of their exquisite curiosity.

    Notables: The late-Headmistress Pertelope of the Edificant Library is one of the better known Favored of Deneir. However, the most well known is Cadderly Bonaduce, builder of the Spirit Soaring. Truly one with Deneir, he fearlessly faced the dracolich amalgam of Crenshinibon, the illithid Yharaskrik, and Hephaestus—known as the Ghost King. By venturing into the Shadowfell, Cadderly defeated the Ghost King. His vows to Deneir extended even beyond death, as he now patrols the ruins of the Spirit Soaring as an ethereal being, ensuring that the Ghost King remains beaten and trapped within the confines of the Shadowfell.

    NPC Reaction

    People tend to have varying reactions to chosen of Deneir. Those of goodly weal almost universally get along well with Deneir’s Favored, while those of neutral bent tend towards mutual respect, while those of evil weal look at the Favored of Deneir with envy and anger. Common townsfolk will tend to be very respectful, even a little overwhelmed by the Chosen of Deneir’s presence, and academics hold them in the highest regard.


    Change Log:
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    • v 1.0 posted.
    • v 1.1 posted. Changed the name, altered Divine Knowledge to be a scaling ability, moved Seeker of Knowledge down and made it scaling, simplified SoUH greatly and made it such that failure still allows for normal prepared casting.
    • v 1.2 posted. Made SoUH result in unconsciousness after four failed checks, removed Spreader of Knowledge
    • v 1.3 posted. Changed Divine Knowledge's bonus to 1/2 FoD class levels and pushed it to 2nd level. Added Knowledge to be Revered to 1st level as the bardic knowledge ability. Altered SoUH to allow changing of spells a number of times per day rather than full spontaneous casting. Moved Knowledge Seeker to 3rd level. Added Eidetic Memory, Shield of Knowledge, A Little Knowledge is a Dangerous Thing, and Beacon of Knowledge. Removed 2 caster levels.

    Last edited by TravelLog; 2011-10-13 at 10:38 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5e PrC] Chosen of Deneir [PEACH]

    Alright, harsh review coming up:

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    First of all, I'd change the name. In FR, Chosen of X is a template applied to a handful of prized servants of X.

    Now then: does the ban on destroying written works mean you can no longer use scrolls?

    The Song of Universal Harmony is a punch right in the groin for 1st level. Is it optional to use when you acquire it, or are you locked out of normal casting forevermore? Also, does this benefit Favored Souls at all? Conversely, once you've gotten past that first full action, you have access to an absurd amount of spells as a cleric. I'm not sure I like that.

    The reading thing is... frankly useless. When you succeed on a check, you heal all the Con damage immediately. And you have to. You're forced to succeed or die. There's no middle ground.

    Divine Knowledge fills the table in a weird fashion, and the ability is incorrectly worded for a scaling ability. I would recommend making it a static ability; frankly, +10 to Knowledge skills is largely overkill, and if you really wanted it you would be better served cleaning the table by issuing the ability at 1st and having it scale by level (+1, +2, +3 etc.)

    Knowledge Seeker is... lame. Don't give a casting class limited-use low-level spell-like abilities. Adding them to its spell list would be far better, especially since the class has spontaneous spell access anyway. I appreciate the fluff side of the ability, but it's an absolute pretense to have it on the table three times, two of which are actually dead levels. If you must have the fluff end of it, give it out once and determine range by level rather than increasing it at set points.

    Spreader of Knowledge... I'm not even sure what's going on with it. After 10 minutes of close proximity with a willing creature, I'm pretty sure I can access all the information I want without meditating. I call that ability "conversing," and the damage I risk to my poor brain through that method thankfully has no mechanical representation. I would recommend dropping this ability entirely, as I see little value to it and no justification for it being a 7th-level ability.

    One with Knowledge... doesn't know how to be a capstone. You have ability increases, SLAs, boosts to multiple abilities and the ability to take 20 on Knowledge checks (which means before Int and skill ranks, you roll a 30 on all Knowledge checks. See your nearest DM for why he wants to kill you). You need a far more focused capstone; the Song of Universal Harmony is its own thing and should not be mentioned in the text of this one.

    Why is [Knowledge] a subtype? Does that have any use? Does anything else have it?

    Lastly, I was under the impression that Deneir was much more focused on glyphs, writing and the communication & storage of knowledge, as opposed to Oghma's more general Knowledge portfolio. Applicable communicated information dissemination. To me, this just doesn't feel all that Deneir-y.


    Hope you find some part of this to be helpful.

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    Default Re: [3.5e PrC] Chosen of Deneir [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    First of all, I'd change the name. In FR, Chosen of X is a template applied to a handful of prized servants of X.
    Done. Changed to Favoured of Deneir


    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    Now then: does the ban on destroying written works mean you can no longer use scrolls?
    You can still use scrolls. You simply can't, for example, set them on fire.

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    The Song of Universal Harmony is a punch right in the groin for 1st level. Is it optional to use when you acquire it, or are you locked out of normal casting forevermore? Also, does this benefit Favored Souls at all? Conversely, once you've gotten past that first full action, you have access to an absurd amount of spells as a cleric. I'm not sure I like that.
    Hmm. I'll get to work on this.

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    The reading thing is... frankly useless. When you succeed on a check, you heal all the Con damage immediately. And you have to. You're forced to succeed or die. There's no middle ground.
    I'll see about toning it down and creating a middle ground.

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    Divine Knowledge fills the table in a weird fashion, and the ability is incorrectly worded for a scaling ability. I would recommend making it a static ability; frankly, +10 to Knowledge skills is largely overkill, and if you really wanted it you would be better served cleaning the table by issuing the ability at 1st and having it scale by level (+1, +2, +3 etc.)
    Now a scaling ability.

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    Knowledge Seeker is... lame. Don't give a casting class limited-use low-level spell-like abilities. Adding them to its spell list would be far better, especially since the class has spontaneous spell access anyway. I appreciate the fluff side of the ability, but it's an absolute pretense to have it on the table three times, two of which are actually dead levels. If you must have the fluff end of it, give it out once and determine range by level rather than increasing it at set points.
    I really like the fluff end of it, so I'll give it out once at a lower level and have it be scaling.

    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    Spreader of Knowledge... I'm not even sure what's going on with it. After 10 minutes of close proximity with a willing creature, I'm pretty sure I can access all the information I want without meditating. I call that ability "conversing," and the damage I risk to my poor brain through that method thankfully has no mechanical representation. I would recommend dropping this ability entirely, as I see little value to it and no justification for it being a 7th-level ability.
    Yeah. This was hard to come up with and I'm not entirely sure why I kept it in for posting. Planning on deleting it, maybe replacing it with something else.


    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    One with Knowledge... doesn't know how to be a capstone. You have ability increases, SLAs, boosts to multiple abilities and the ability to take 20 on Knowledge checks (which means before Int and skill ranks, you roll a 30 on all Knowledge checks. See your nearest DM for why he wants to kill you). You need a far more focused capstone; the Song of Universal Harmony is its own thing and should not be mentioned in the text of this one.

    Why is [Knowledge] a subtype? Does that have any use? Does anything else have it?
    This one is going to be a total teardown and retool.


    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    Lastly, I was under the impression that Deneir was much more focused on glyphs, writing and the communication & storage of knowledge, as opposed to Oghma's more general Knowledge portfolio. Applicable communicated information dissemination. To me, this just doesn't feel all that Deneir-y.

    Hope you find some part of this to be helpful.
    Deneir is very glyph related, which I might somehow include with an altered/retooled ability. Regardless, he does greatly venerate overall knowledge and personal quests for inspiration/knowledge/self-discovery etc. Still, your point is well made and I'll see about making it more "Deneir-y".

    Thanks for the PEACH, hopefully I can rework this to become a viable class.
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    Default Re: [3.5e PrC] Favoured of Deneir v1.1[PEACH]

    Alright, reworked most problems. Anyone have suggestions for a more appropriate capstone or mid-level class feature?
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    Default Re: [3.5e PrC] Favoured of Deneir v1.1[PEACH]

    I've seen something like this, although it's a base class. You might wanna look at it for possible compatibility.
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    Default Re: [3.5e PrC] Favoured of Deneir v1.1[PEACH]

    Hm. Interesting concept, but I'm going to reiterate a lot of afroakuma's comments. Sorry if any of it is a bit harsh.

    Firstly, Song of Universal Harmony is, quite simply, overpowered. There's no real penalty you can stick on it that balances out having spontaneous access to the entire Cleric spell list. And, as mentioned, it conversely gives nothing to a Favored Soul. That's a problem, and, until it is fixed, the class is fundamentally broken. Some possibilities include a specific list of spells (maybe not all Divine, even) that you gain access to (in, say, three groupings...1-3, 4-6, 7-9, so you can flesh out the table a bit more), or the ability to trade out spells for spells on the Cleric spell list X/day or X/encounter or even X levels of value each day. Any of those (and a number of other options) would both limit the utility and give something to casters who are already spontaneous.

    Divine Knowledge is fine...but not when you also allow them to take 20 on Knowledge checks. I'd much prefer Divine Knowledge and a Bardic Knowledge equivalent as two separate abilities: it fits the class, and won't make DMs hate the class. Also, maybe limit the Divine Knowledge bonus to 1/2 class level because, as mentioned, it might allow you to know to much.

    Knowledge Seeker is fine.

    One with Knowledge is just messy. Firstly, it references an ability (Spreader of Knowledge) that you don't actually have. Secondly, that subtype is unnecessary, and it could be represented without a specific subtype addition which means nothing to any other mechanics. Taking 20 on Knowledge checks (or even taking 10) seems a bit excessive and a bit contrary to gameplay (where discovery is a large portion of the game), and I feel you could do something more interesting than spell-like abilities.

    Personally, I'd consider dropping a caster level or two in exchange for more (and more interesting/flavorful) class abilities. As written, you have one ability which is just SUPER SPONTANEOUS CASTING, two abilities which, together, give ALWAYS SUCCESSFUL KNOWLEDGE CHECKS, and then one that lets you find books. To me, that's not an engaging class...it's a class that appeals primarily on the merits of the really good benefits it provides, NOT on the merits of the concept and execution. There's no real downside to the class once you're around level 8, and you've gotten nothing of real different up to that point, which is a problem.

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    Default Re: [3.5e PrC] Favoured of Deneir v1.3[PEACH]

    Alright. I've made a substantial number of changes (thanks by the way, Djinn). Several new abilities have been added and two caster levels have been removed. Song of Universal Harmony has been greatly toned down and no longer allows for fully spontaneous casting. Rather it allows for the user's spells to be altered a number of times per day.

    I am still encountering difficulties thinking of an appropriate capstone. Suggestions?
    Last edited by TravelLog; 2011-09-11 at 02:53 PM.
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