[BitP:R] BleachITP Reborn OOC Thread 18: Peek-a-boo style PAWNCH!

[Kuroimaken]

Think of it like this: when one uses a sword, it accumulates notches and fat stains as it cuts. If the sword is continually used without being cleaned properly, the blade loses its edge and becomes dull, or rusts and breaks.

The idea behind the concept is that since a Zanpakutou is, at the same time, a weapon and a part of a Shinigami's soul, not performing Jinzen regularly could cause the Hollow's essence to contaminate the blade. The blade itself is not so fragile that any Hollow could cause this to happen, so it naturally resists the influence somewhat. However, Shinigami who are too eager about cutting down Hollows are likely to neglect "mantaining" their swords properly, so even if they never come across a particularly powerful or vile Hollow, their sword slowly accumulates Hollow essence such that they suffer its effects just the same.

[Kasanip]

Think of it like this: when one uses a sword, it accumulates notches and fat stains as it cuts. If the sword is continually used without being cleaned properly, the blade loses its edge and becomes dull, or rusts and breaks.

The idea behind the concept is that since a Zanpakutou is, at the same time, a weapon and a part of a Shinigami's soul, not performing Jinzen regularly could cause the Hollow's essence to contaminate the blade. The blade itself is not so fragile that any Hollow could cause this to happen, so it naturally resists the influence somewhat. However, Shinigami who are too eager about cutting down Hollows are likely to neglect "maintaining" their swords properly, so even if they never come across a particularly powerful or vile Hollow, their sword slowly accumulates Hollow essence such that they suffer its effects just the same.

What hollow essence? I don't understand why a spiritual sword absorb hollow essence? If it absorbs hollow essence, then it absorbs spirit particles. If it absorbs spiritual particles, then it absorbs from plus soul too?
You didn't answer my question about Konsou.

[Kuroimaken]

It is an analog to cutting through flesh and bone. Hollow flesh and bone are made of Reishi as well, but their Reishi is different. With enough usage, the Reishi of Hollow bodies is absorbed by the blade the same way blood and fat seep into a katana.

Konsou is something entirely different. If you'll recall, it is done with the bottom of the tsuka instead of the blade. It's like signaling Soul Society to let a plus soul in without going through the Dangai or through a Senkaimon.

[Kasanip]

It is an analog to cutting through flesh and bone. Hollow flesh and bone are made of Reishi as well, but their Reishi is different. With enough usage, the Reishi of Hollow bodies is absorbed by the blade the same way blood and fat seep into a katana.

Konsou is something entirely different. If you'll recall, it is done with the bottom of the tsuka instead of the blade. It's like signaling Soul Society to let a plus soul in without going through the Dangai or through a Senkaimon.

They are both purification ceremony, to use different part of the sword. But they are both the sword, and it is both the sword spirit and shinigami action.
In Konsou, the sword touches the plus soul. To cut Hollow, it touches the Hollow.
Both use sword for purification.

There is no difference spiritually. Because spiritual particles are the sword also. When shikai or bankai change sword, it is whole sword to change, not just cutting part.

If you play Kendo, you can see tsuka becomes dirty also of using.

I don't have disagreement with concept of affecting sword of use. But you cannot ignore main use of the zanpakutou. I think shinigami use konsou very much more than cut hollow. So the effect is not explained satisfactorily.

[nothingclever]

I'm against the idea of swords becoming tainted simply because them being used to purify spirits makes me think they would be self-purifying.

[tgva8889]

How does one's sword get tainted if a Shinigami doesn't kill any Hollows? I feel one could be a master of swordsmanship without killing a single Hollow. Does this do anything to them?

I contend that this doesn't actually do anything in the long run, since characters who were going to disregard this were going to disregard it anyways, and those who were going to follow it were already doing things that clearly label them as "good". I also dislike the idea that Shinigami are the reason Hollows exist (because this is what that implies). A spirit that reaches Soul Society is freed from Hollow influence. There shouldn't be Hollow influence attached to them.

I'm against anything of this being "factual." I have no problem if, say, there are some characters that believe in it even if it is completely and totally unproven, and no elements of it become proven aspects of the game (like, no Hollows are actually produced from any "taint" and no "taint" is ever fought on screen). It can simply be a belief. Just because we can't prove the existence of a thing doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Why can't this be similar?

Also, frankly, what's wrong with people who are not obviously good but are clearly on the good side? There are enough people who are clearly good in this game. What's wrong with some people doing questionable things?

[riccaru]

How does one's sword get tainted if a Shinigami doesn't kill any Hollows? I feel one could be a master of swordsmanship without killing a single Hollow. Does this do anything to them?

I contend that this doesn't actually do anything in the long run, since characters who were going to disregard this were going to disregard it anyways, and those who were going to follow it were already doing things that clearly label them as "good". I also dislike the idea that Shinigami are the reason Hollows exist (because this is what that implies). A spirit that reaches Soul Society is freed from Hollow influence. There shouldn't be Hollow influence attached to them.

I'm against anything of this being "factual." I have no problem if, say, there are some characters that believe in it even if it is completely and totally unproven, and no elements of it become proven aspects of the game (like, no Hollows are actually produced from any "taint" and no "taint" is ever fought on screen). It can simply be a belief. Just because we can't prove the existence of a thing doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Why can't this be similar?

Also, frankly, what's wrong with people who are not obviously good but are clearly on the good side? There are enough people who are clearly good in this game. What's wrong with some people doing questionable things?

Or have it just perpetually cleanse itself... Unless you want it not to. This would allow people to knowingly infect themselves to reach greater power, while still making it a non-issue for anyone who doesn't want to deal with it. In order to become tainted you have to repress a part of your soul, which draws a nice parallel to not having a soul in your weapon at all.

[tgva8889]

So we're actually giving benefits to Shinigami who want to be more evil?

[KnightDisciple]

Or have it just perpetually cleanse itself... Unless you want it not to. This would allow people to knowingly infect themselves to reach greater power, while still making it a non-issue for anyone who doesn't want to deal with it. In order to become tainted you have to repress a part of your soul, which draws a nice parallel to not having a soul in your weapon at all.

I'm pretty sure Kuroi explicitly stated it does not increase your power at all.

If left "untreated", all it does is turn you into someone like Soushi; that is to say, your mind/self/whatever becomes as unto a Hollow, but your powers and everything stay the same, and you have only Shinigami powers.

[Vulkan]

^_^ I'm sorry could we not take my last post in Episode 11 seriously at this moment I require information on Allan's abilities

[KnightDisciple]

^_^ I'm sorry could we not take my last post in Episode 11 seriously at this moment I require information on Allan's abilities

If the post isn't to be taken seriously and/or is not actually happening, I would recommend not having posted it in the first place, especially as it's pretty blatant godmod material (you post that you send Allan flying, instead of saying the blow had enough force to send him flying back).

The player's name is Dorizzit, not Allan.

You need to PM him to discuss this, as well as making it clear to him how thoroughly Mimus understands Allan's abilities after having copied him. Since your registry entry is kind of vague on that.

[riccaru]

I'm pretty sure Kuroi explicitly stated it does not increase your power at all.

If left "untreated", all it does is turn you into someone like Soushi; that is to say, your mind/self/whatever becomes as unto a Hollow, but your powers and everything stay the same, and you have only Shinigami powers.

He said it can turn you into an arrancar, which is more powerful in melee combat since they have all the strengths of shinigami plus heirro.

Why not let them get more power by being evil? It's clearly already been done before, with vizard masks. When you have no qualms about doing whatever it takes, becoming top dog gets much easier.

[maximus25]

Combat is fun! Woohoo.

[Frozen_Feet]

What external manifestation?

If you mean the excision bit, it's not meant to be something the taint itself can do, it's meant to be something a third party flushes out of the host's system (think cancer removal surgery). Except, you know, this cancer is kinda sentient.

That's exactly what I mean, and it doesn't sit well with me. That's like cutting away one's selfishness, or stupidity, or something like that. It's not something I think should happen outside ones Inner World.

We already have a precedent of Shinigami being contaminated by, and having to fight, Hollow essence inside them: Vizards. Since the idea is that of Shinigami becoming too much like a Hollow, I see it as unnecessary deviation from Canon to have such exorcism.

As far as factuality... if it's not something that exists at all, why would it be feared?

Philosophical, as well as practical, reasons. A Shinigami who's acting like a Hollow is still a threat to everyone around him (and quite a prick, too), even in absence of any actual Hollow traits.

Also, I restate: our game has Vizards. Even if the factual connection between the concept of "taint" and Vizards is non-existent, it'd be enough to spark rumours, would it not?

These are Shinigami we're talking about. Their very title and nature implies that, in the setting, you can beg all you want, but there is no god. Chances are they either already know so much of the realm they live in that there are literally no surprises left beyond those can be fabricated or what little they don't have in accumulated knowledge are things they USED to know but don't anymore.

I'm sorry, but this is a bunch of non-sequiturs. Shinigami don't imply there are no gods, quite on the contrary; their refusal to acknowledge any other gods beside themselves is more due to influence of buddhist philosophy.

In canon Bleach, Research and Development was founded hundred years ago. In ours, it might have been founded earlier, but that doesn't mean every mystery of the spiritual realm has been answered. It only means Shinigami are ahead of humanity in some respects, that's all.

In canon Bleach, Hogyoku was a new invention; Arrancars and Vizards were new inventions; Garganta, for the Shinigami, was a new invention. Vasto Lordes were more a myth, than known fact. In our setting, these got to be known earlier and for different reasons, but the example is clear: new things happen in world of spirit all the time. The idea that they know all there is to know is about as sound as the one that we humans know all there is to know.

Nevermind that where we humans only have one world to immediatly experience, Shinigami have at least three. They also have more different kinds of matter to research, more different basic forces (most likely), so on and so forth.

Even the oldest Shinigami at the moment are less than millenia old; a lot of human, let alone spiritual, history they've never experienced. The world of Shinigami has room for mysteries; it has room for rumours, myths, legends and religions. Ideas to the contrary are ridiculous.

[KnightDisciple]

-Straight-out purification: original host beats it single-handedly. Purification complete.
-Combo purification: several other Shinigami beat it in owner's stead. The accumulated 'taint' splits evenly between the Shinigami involved, according to those that used their swords the most.
-'Taint' escape: Said 'taint' will last depending on the amount it accumulated before excision. From then on, it can sustain itself by eating other souls just like a regular Hollow. If it eats enough, it stabilizes and becomes an Arrancar.
-'Taint' overtake: If the 'taint' is excised but not purified (but neither does it escape) it can attempt to 're-infect' its original host. They then proceed to fight within the host's inner world. If the host loses, his/her soul is warped by the 'taint' into becoming a Hollow (or an Arrancar if his/her soul is powerful enough).

I'm accepting suggestions in this regard, of course. This is just a rough draft. Arrancar created by this method are not necessarily stronger than regular Arrancar (only if the host happened to be stronger than most 'newly-born' Arrancar).

He said it can turn you into an arrancar, which is more powerful in melee combat since they have all the strengths of shinigami plus heirro.

Why not let them get more power by being evil? It's clearly already been done before, with vizard masks. When you have no qualms about doing whatever it takes, becoming top dog gets much easier.

I've bolded and underlined the relevant part. It sounds like it's not a true power-boost, but instead a transformatino of the power. Note that his layout of possible results does not include mention of becoming a Vizard.

Which is to say, under his systems, victims of this condition face essentially losing most all sense of themselves and being replaced with a Hollow version with no morals at all, and possibly a fair bit of hunger. So, again, not really a power boost. And while hierro is helpful...they'd lose access to things like Kido, and possibly some Hakudo. Their sword would totally change what it does (due to the fundamental difference in powers between Shinigami and Arrancar swords). And Kenpachi shows that sufficiently powerful Shinigami can be very difficult to harm as well.


Honestly, I'd lean towards not including the concept. Or if it is included, perhaps dropping the "make a hollow/arrancar" results of the cleansing process.

I do see Kuroi's point about this being kind of pointless if it's not factual. If it's not a real thing, there's no reasonable motivation to include it. It can be a scary bedtime story, but so could dozens of other things.

I'm more against it simply because we're already adding a lot of "mechanics" to the game already, what with Necromancia, Tonics, Higher Hakudo, Advanced Zanjutsu, and so on. Adding this sort of thing in does feel like a bit too much right now.

[riccaru]

I've bolded and underlined the relevant part. It sounds like it's not a true power-boost, but instead a transformatino of the power. Note that his layout of possible results does not include mention of becoming a Vizard.

Which is to say, under his systems, victims of this condition face essentially losing most all sense of themselves and being replaced with a Hollow version with no morals at all, and possibly a fair bit of hunger. So, again, not really a power boost. And while hierro is helpful...they'd lose access to things like Kido, and possibly some Hakudo. Their sword would totally change what it does (due to the fundamental difference in powers between Shinigami and Arrancar swords). And Kenpachi shows that sufficiently powerful Shinigami can be very difficult to harm as well.


Honestly, I'd lean towards not including the concept. Or if it is included, perhaps dropping the "make a hollow/arrancar" results of the cleansing process.

I do see Kuroi's point about this being kind of pointless if it's not factual. If it's not a real thing, there's no reasonable motivation to include it. It can be a scary bedtime story, but so could dozens of other things.

I'm more against it simply because we're already adding a lot of "mechanics" to the game already, what with Necromancia, Tonics, Higher Hakudo, Advanced Zanjutsu, and so on. Adding this sort of thing in does feel like a bit too much right now.

Why would they lose hakudo? They still have all the same parts, don't they?

[KnightDisciple]

I'm sorry, but this is a bunch of non-sequiturs. Shinigami don't imply there are no gods, quite on the contrary; their refusal to acknowledge any other gods beside themselves is more due to influence of buddhist philosophy.

In canon Bleach, Research and Development was founded hundred years ago. In ours, it might have been founded earlier, but that doesn't mean every mystery of the spiritual realm has been answered. It only means Shinigami are ahead of humanity in some respects, that's all.

In canon Bleach, Hogyoku was a new invention; Arrancars and Vizards were new inventions; Garganta, for the Shinigami, was a new invention. Vasto Lordes were more a myth, than known fact. In our setting, these got to be known earlier and for different reasons, but the example is clear: new things happen in world of spirit all the time. The idea that they know all there is to know is about as sound as the one that we humans know all there is to know.

Nevermind that where we humans only have one world to immediatly experience, Shinigami have at least three. They also have more different kinds of matter to research, more different basic forces (most likely), so on and so forth.

Even the oldest Shinigami at the moment are less than millenia old; a lot of human, let alone spiritual, history they've never experienced. The world of Shinigami has room for mysteries; it has room for rumours, myths, legends and religions. Ideas to the contrary are ridiculous.

It does kind of rub against a fair number of non-Asian philosophies and religions, though. I mean, in canon, Hitsugaya mentions things like the flow of souls between Soul Society and the Mortal World. Which means they can measure how many people are going between each; the point of his discussion was that Quincy took people out of that cycle, destroyed their souls, and the souls were gone.

As it stands right now, Soul Society (and its world-wide equivalents) is basically the closest thing to Heaven, and it's a pretty poor version. Which fits with the "system" Bleach set up, but kind of goes against other views of the afterlife.

To put it another way, many worldviews are mutually exclusive of how Bleach handles the afterlife. And while current Shinigami in our game are all around 800 or fewer years old, there are enough clear records to stretch back a couple thousand years at least.

The point is, trying to say "everyone can have their cake and eat it too" doesn't work. You can't have both Soul Society and Heaven. You just can't.

EDIT:

Why would they lose hakudo? They still have all the same parts, don't they?

A lot of the Higher Hakudo, like Shunko, seem to rely on Kido and its principles. With Kido itself no longer available, a lot of Higher Hakudo ceases to work to its fullest extent.

[Edge]

EDIT:
A lot of the Higher Hakudo, like Shunko, seem to rely on Kido and its principles. With Kido itself no longer available, a lot of Higher Hakudo ceases to work to its fullest extent.

In all fairness, all Higher Hakudo that I've written up so far, plus all the others I seen, have been based around reiryoku manipulation in general rather than explicitly kido usage.. I see nothing from stopping an Arrancar from developing a Shunko-equivalent that utilise cero or bala energies. Wouldn't be exactly Shunko, but it'd be close enough.

[riccaru]

It does kind of rub against a fair number of non-Asian philosophies and religions, though. I mean, in canon, Hitsugaya mentions things like the flow of souls between Soul Society and the Mortal World. Which means they can measure how many people are going between each; the point of his discussion was that Quincy took people out of that cycle, destroyed their souls, and the souls were gone.

As it stands right now, Soul Society (and its world-wide equivalents) is basically the closest thing to Heaven, and it's a pretty poor version. Which fits with the "system" Bleach set up, but kind of goes against other views of the afterlife.

To put it another way, many worldviews are mutually exclusive of how Bleach handles the afterlife. And while current Shinigami in our game are all around 800 or fewer years old, there are enough clear records to stretch back a couple thousand years at least.

The point is, trying to say "everyone can have their cake and eat it too" doesn't work. You can't have both Soul Society and Heaven. You just can't.

EDIT:
A lot of the Higher Hakudo, like Shunko, seem to rely on Kido and its principles. With Kido itself no longer available, a lot of Higher Hakudo ceases to work to its fullest extent.

We have Hueco Mundo and hell. Maybe only exceptionally good souls go to Heaven, while everything else goes to Soul Society. The fact is, no one knows.

Since higher Hakudo is only present in a handful of people, I don't see how this would matter, and the higher hakudo as written is manipulation or reiryoku, which arrancar have anyway.

Since when is advanced zanjutsu a mechanic? You said multiple times it was just fluff.

[tgva8889]

Soul Society is kind of "run by God" though. I mean, the King is supposed to be a sort of "God" isn't he?

Either it's a benefit or it's absolutely pointless. Let's not add it.

[KnightDisciple]

We have Hueco Mundo and hell. Maybe only exceptionally good souls go to Heaven, while everything else goes to Soul Society. The fact is, no one knows.

Let's just not get into it, okay?

Since higher Hakudo is only present in a handful of people, I don't see how this would matter, and the higher hakudo as written is manipulation or reiryoku, which arrancar have anyway.

It might matter for at least some of them. And the point was that Arrancar-hood wasn't a vertical move so much as a horizontal one. But hey, thanks for missing the point entirely.

Since when is advanced zanjutsu a mechanic? You said multiple times it was just fluff.

It's a mechanic insofar as saying "I know Five Families Kung Fu" as opposed to saying "I know Kung Fu" is a mechanic. It clarifies what exactly your skill base is and isn't capable of.

Soul Society is kind of "run by God" though. I mean, the King is supposed to be a sort of "God" isn't he?

Either it's a benefit or it's absolutely pointless. Let's not add it.

Again, can we maybe please not spend 5 pages with people pontificating about how all philosophies do or don't fit together in Bleach's setting, and just drop this line of conversation?

As for the taint thing, I wouldn't say it's "pointless", but it does seem, to me, to be somewhat unnecessary. If nothing else, it helps make Soushi more uniquie, and doesn't give PCs or NPCs an "easy out" when explaining why they did some horrific deed or another.

[Frozen_Feet]

I've bolded and underlined the relevant part. It sounds like it's not a true power-boost, but instead a transformatino of the power. Note that his layout of possible results does not include mention of becoming a Vizard.

Which I find silly, as it'd seem more logical than transformation to an Arrancar. Nevermind that Arrancar and Vizards are approaching the same middle point, just from different directions.

Remember: Vizards run the risk of becoming completely Hollow. Becoming an Arrancar would mean you go all the way, then suddenly turn back and lose some of the acquired Hollow qualites.

If a Shinigami is to become like Hollow, Vizard really makes more sense.

I do see Kuroi's point about this being kind of pointless if it's not factual. If it's not a real thing, there's no reasonable motivation to include it. It can be a scary bedtime story, but so could dozens of other things.

Ah, but "scary bedtime stories" can still influence how people act, on themselves and against each other. The game is 90% character interaction, so anything that influences that can't be pointless.

I'm more against it simply because we're already adding a lot of "mechanics" to the game already, what with Necromancia, Tonics, Higher Hakudo, Advanced Zanjutsu, and so on. Adding this sort of thing in does feel like a bit too much right now.

This is a valid complaint, I suppose. We have so many deviations and expansion on the canon universe that it might be an obstacle for new people to join. Also, I don't think all of the other new expansions have been included in the wiki and/or first post yet; I suggest inventors of those ideas look to doing just that.

The point is, trying to say "everyone can have their cake and eat it too" doesn't work. You can't have both Soul Society and Heaven. You just can't.

Not quite, since we already agreed Soul Society is not the only one of its kind. Also, you're not quite getting what I'm getting at: mortals have their own myths that might or might not be true, but spirits themselves would have them too! Shinigami would have myths of founding Seireitei, of when and where the first Shinigami came to being, so on and so forth. They'd have various ideas of what is and isn't good for other souls, like Taiki's opinion that a soul once gone wrong can't be fixed.

Counting souls that flow between Earth and afterlife wouldn't actually be that hard; consider that real life nations can keep track of thousands of people already. Due to the concrete nature of souls moving from one plane to another, it'd actually be fairly simple (though arduous) task.

[tgva8889]

Shinigami characters already don't have an easy out if they do some horrific deed. It's called Guilt and (barring that) the Central 46.

Also, I agree that a Shinigami that becomes "more Hollow-like" should just be a Vizard or a Vizard who lost to their Inner Hollow. So they wouldn't "still be a Shinigami," they'd end up something totally different.

[KnightDisciple]

Not quite, since we already agreed Soul Society is not the only one of its kind. Also, you're not quite getting what I'm getting at: mortals have their own myths that might or might not be true, but spirits themselves would have them too! Shinigami would have myths of founding Seireitei, of when and where the first Shinigami came to being, so on and so forth. They'd have various ideas of what is and isn't good for other souls, like Taiki's opinion that a soul once gone wrong can't be fixed.

Counting souls that flow between Earth and afterlife wouldn't actually be that hard; consider that real life nations can keep track of thousands of people already. Due to the concrete nature of souls moving from one plane to another, it'd actually be fairly simple (though arduous) task.

I didn't join this game to write Shinigami religions, okay? I'd rather that not become a big part of the game.

Any further discussion on my part on the incompatibility of at least some real-world philosophies and Bleach's afterlife mechanics would tread too close to breaking board rules.

Which is why I'm asking we drop this whole part of the conversation now.

[riccaru]

Let's just not get into it, okay?

It might matter for at least some of them. And the point was that Arrancar-hood wasn't a vertical move so much as a horizontal one. But hey, thanks for missing the point entirely.

It's a mechanic insofar as saying "I know Five Families Kung Fu" as opposed to saying "I know Kung Fu" is a mechanic. It clarifies what exactly your skill base is and isn't capable of.

Again, can we maybe please not spend 5 pages with people pontificating about how all philosophies do or don't fit together in Bleach's setting, and just drop this line of conversation?

As for the taint thing, I wouldn't say it's "pointless", but it does seem, to me, to be somewhat unnecessary. If nothing else, it helps make Soushi more uniquie, and doesn't give PCs or NPCs an "easy out" when explaining why they did some horrific deed or another.

The point? I said they gained melee capability by having all of their close range fighting capability plus heirro plus being able to gain power by eating hollows, which to me seems like a much faster way of becoming powerful than training for years. I said no one knows about heavin in the Bleach setting, so it's not like I could actually say anything about it besides that you don't know if it exists in this setting or not any more than i do.

And if this "fluff" is useless, why was advanced zanjutsu not just as useless as this? We didn't need the advanced Zanjutsu any more than we need this, we don't need this any less than we needed advanced zanjutsu. So it being useless is completely a non-issue. It's as useful and has just as much point to it as any other mechanic or fluff we've added.

[Frozen_Feet]

I didn't join this game to write Shinigami religions, okay? I'd rather that not become a big part of the game.

I'm not suggesting it become a big part of the game, if anything, it's something for conflict between invidual characters. My point is simply that Shinigami should have varied philosophical outlooks on existence, and their actions would differ due to those as well. As such, Taint as a concept could make for a good plot or central theme for a character even if it isn't "the truth", so to speak.

[tgva8889]

Speaking of Vizards losing to their Inner Hollow... we don't know what happens when a Vizard is defeated by their Inner Hollow, do we? I mean, characters do say what supposedly happens, but we don't actually know. That may be something I explore...

[Frozen_Feet]

All shown canon Vizards, when in danger of losing to their Inner Hollows, turned into full Hollows. So did failed attempts at making Vizards from Rukongai Pluses.

So, my suggestion is simply that failed Vizards become Hollows, full stop, with maybe potential to become Arrancar or even Shinigami once more.

[tgva8889]

But some of them were "full Hollows" with the bodies of Shinigami (Ichigo and Kensei, for example). Were they really full Hollows? I'm not completely sure.

Also, in the show there weren't any "natural Vizard" so to speak. I don't disagree with you, but maybe there's something different about a Hollow that's created from a Vizard. I mean, Hollows aren't usually made from Shinigami Plus souls, they're made from Human Plus souls.

So you think a Hollow could become a Shinigami if it had been a Vizard?

[Frozen_Feet]

And if this "fluff" is useless, why was advanced zanjutsu not just as useless as this? We didn't need the advanced Zanjutsu any more than we need this, we don't need this any less than we needed advanced zanjutsu. So it being useless is completely a non-issue. It's as useful and has just as much point to it as any other mechanic or fluff we've added.

Uh, the five schools of Zanjutsu are now an important part of several characters, and influencing the plot. That makes the write-ups useful.

The concept of Taint has yet to be used for characters, so of course it seems useless at the moment. The question is whether there'd be motivation to use it. That question has already been answerd in regards to Advanced Zanjutsu, so please don't bring that up.

So you think a Hollow could become a Shinigami if it had been a Vizard?

Ichigo, during his training, he becomes a Hollow, with mask, hole, inhuman shape, instant regeneration, the lot. Yet he manages to come back still. I don't consider it impossible that such process could happen at even later point - though chances of that happening might be slim.