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Thread: Young Justice (Spoilers)
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2012-04-28, 02:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-04-28, 02:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
Soo.... wasn't expecting that. Really got some mixed feelings on the idea.
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2012-04-28, 03:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-04-28, 04:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
So about Me'gan and Superboy...
Spoiler
Why aren't they as close?
She kissed Lagoon instead... in beginning.
I wonder what the league did...
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2012-04-28, 05:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
Spoiler
A lot can change in five years. Relationships change. Something obviously happened between the two to cause them to drift apart.
Personally, I like that. Not because I disapprove of the ship, but because it makes sense for adolescent first relationships to end and not be the end of all relationships ever.
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2012-04-28, 09:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
That was roughly me during this episode.
Spoiler5 years? Really? With no lead-in? I mean, dang it guys, you changed this much, but no real explanations?
I'd settle for a roster somewhere!
Also, I totally shipped Conner/M'gann, I don't like Lagoon boy muscling in.
I kinda wish they didn't make Beetle seem so crazy. Why can't he explain he's got a semi-sentient suit? No crazier than GL rings.
I mean, don't get me wrong, I like having new characters. But it's overload with little in the way of good explanation.
I love Nightwing and Robin and Batgirl's suits, though. Gotta say that.
I am curious what went down with the Animated 6 (seriously, just add Flash and you've got the case of the old Bruce Timm Justice League show). Obviously bad juju, but what?
I mean, I get that having some mystery is good, but this feels like too much at once. I really hope we get some flashback episodes or something...
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2012-04-29, 01:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
So uh. Watched the new episode and...
SpoilerHAHAHAHA. YES. THANK YOU.
I was right! Probably! The Light did send the League off world to go whoop some aliens and rile some alien races up. Earthlings are unwanted... and we see that some are already invading! Or setting up for one.
I hope the Light knows what they're doing.
Awww heck. Who am I kidding. This'll probably blow up in their faces.
Anyway, predicted the Mole, predicted where the Leaguers went... WHAT NOW, GREG? WHAT NOWVisit the Chocolate Hammer IRC channel!
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2012-04-29, 09:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
After reading some comments on the ep I was worried that I'd hate it, but I LOVED it.
SpoilerThe 5 year jump and new members really work. It felt like the same show but fresh as well. I think it was a good call.
Really digging the relationship between Nightwing (****) and Robin (Tim). Nightwing's protective comment (just stay alive) perhaps implies that Jason Todd has already come and gone?
Lagoon Boy's pufferfish style Hulk-out was unintentionally funny, though still cool. Couldn't get a handle on what Blue Beetle was all about - why was he talking to himself so much and what is his relation to the alien species?
Is Godfrey Darkseid? He obviously will have some important role because the show lingered on his character for some time. Hmm.
Enjoyed seeing Wonder Girl and Batgirl. Lobo didn't really have a big role in the ep though.
Where are Kid Flash, Aqualad, Red Arrow, and Artemis?
Looking forward to seeing what they do with this season. Definitely a start that has me hooked."And yet, will we ever come to an end of discussion and talk if we think we must always reply to replies? For replies come from those who either cannot understand what is said to them, or are so stubborn and contentious that they refuse to give in even if they do understand." - St. Augustine
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2012-04-29, 09:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
SpoilerBlue Beetle's suit was originally found by the first Blue Beetle I think his name was Dan but back then it was supposed to be Egyptian and enchanted rather than alien tech which given by the reaction of those alien monkeys is still the Reach.
Its sentient so yes I can see why they're following that route but hopefully he'll tell his team mates about that once he's ready...
Godfrey definitely Darkseid's have to ask if he's supposed to be so persuasive why does he come across as annoying instead?
Should have been at least three members sent not just Bat Girl and Wonder Girl, I am assuming Super Girl hasn't joined yet since that would have made this ALOT more interesting but nice to see Bat Girl being at least competent although why they sent only 2 I really don't know...
Hopefully Red Arrow, Artemis and Kid Flash are hunting down the Light to rescue Speedy, if not why the heck not?!
I have to ask this but if its been FIVE years why hasn't the Green Lantern corps contacted John or any of the other GLs to let them know about the justice leaguers' being wanted fugitives?
Seriously they're expecting the Guardians of Oa to look away as something like that is going on?
Unless their activities was restricted to just Rann that taking the mickey and thats the polite description!
Not sure if this will work but was also not sure if this would spoil anyone's enjoyment of the episode so sorry for the confusion!Last edited by Hopeless; 2012-04-29 at 09:39 AM.
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2012-04-29, 10:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
SpoilerThanks for the BB clarification.
Agreed on the GL plot hole. However, the Guardians aren't omniscient (we see they make continual mistakes in the comics) and perhaps Rann isn't in John's sector anywho, so perhaps it isn't considered an issue. Still, this was indeed a plot point that suffered due to the five year jump.
Also agreed, Godfrey was annoying, and his scene chewing monologue went on way longer than necessary...
Also confused on the two-person teams or squads or whatever they were."And yet, will we ever come to an end of discussion and talk if we think we must always reply to replies? For replies come from those who either cannot understand what is said to them, or are so stubborn and contentious that they refuse to give in even if they do understand." - St. Augustine
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2012-04-29, 10:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
Just caught the new episode (missed yesterday due to work):
SpoilerI do not like the time skip. At all. Suddenly introducing a bunch of new characters (heck, most of the team is new now!), having a number of the old just missing (Aqualad? Kid Flash? Artemis? Roy?), old members now being Justice League members (I'm going to miss Zatanna - she got to do way too little when she was a team member, and now she isn't... must be even worse for anyone who wanted to see more of Rocket too...), Nightwing apparently becoming the leader, getting a new Robin in addition to Nightwing (and Batgirl too? Ugh, I'm getting Batman-spinoff overload already), Miss Martian apparently now being with one of the new guys instead of Superboy - blech all around. Why couldn't we have done things like this gradually, so it wasn't so sudden and jarring a change between seasons? This almost seems like a different show.
I also get the feeling that Lagoon Boy's fish puns are going to annoy me just as much as Robin's made-up words used to. Doesn't help that I think his character design is pretty stupid either (seriously, Aqualad was an aquatic hero done right; Lagoon Boy is pretty much the opposite).
As for the plot, we'll see. Could be good. At the moment I'm more worried about whether I'll like any of the new cast. Aside from not being fond of Lagoon Boy, I didn't get much feel for any of them in the first episode.
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"When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." -C.S. Lewis
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2012-04-29, 12:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
I'm right with you on not liking this twist. This is a "new series" level transition not something you should do even for a season premiere with no warning. I'm reserving judgement because this is comics so...
Spoiler...time travel is a totally legit possibility.
And we already had an episode centered on a massive fake out right. I'm keep waiting to see that humanity has already lost or something due to massive infiltration of the population and they've got to go back to the real Team to stop it.
It this isn't the case I'm not sure I'm going to be able to keep liking the show. Because someone must be lacing Greg Weissman's coffee with cocaine or something because he needs to hit the brakes.
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2012-04-29, 06:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
I can't imagine how they would have carried the characters into new arcs if they just kept the status quo of the last season. Almost everything got resolved at the end and something had to give to keep the series fresh IMO. The first season established that there was a need for a Young Justice team for when the League was compromised or spread thin. They proved their worth and learned to trust each other.
Granted, none of the new characters were given more than surface level characterization, if that, and we are being thrown into a future situation in media res with little knowledge of what has transpired between the last season and this one. That said, I see no reason to lose faith in the show because we don't know what the heck is going on and don't know what they are going to do with these characters. Last season was stellar. I, for one, am excited to see what they do with this. I'm sure the old team will still be heavily involved.
I applaud them for taking a risk with this new direction, rather than just keeping the safer status quo, and I trust the writers enough to follow this at least to mid-season.Last edited by ThePhantasm; 2012-04-29 at 06:26 PM.
"And yet, will we ever come to an end of discussion and talk if we think we must always reply to replies? For replies come from those who either cannot understand what is said to them, or are so stubborn and contentious that they refuse to give in even if they do understand." - St. Augustine
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2012-04-29, 07:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
So the new episode came out and...
SpoilerI didnt like it much. It was all over the place with its idea of surprising the viewers and it had no focus. It just kept throwing something at us with not enough time to digest what we just saw before the next reveal. Are the writers that scared of not having enough time to develop the season that they feel the need to rush into things?
About the timeskip, it felt a little cheap and lazy. My reasons? The introduction of a new and big cast after just a single season seems forced, like they just wanted to play with new characters but without the need of making introductions and dedicating episodes to working around them. Why is it a negative? Because of the shaft of focus of our original main characters. What was the point of being with them for the season? Their development? Some didnt even receive enough screentime.... I feel that they should have waited at least one more season.
I agree with the Phantasm, what is going on with that world? How can it take the league 5 years to find out they have become wanted criminals? It just shows that it was a bad timing for a timeskip...
Now, on the positives of the episode, I liked the new characters and the portrayal of most characters. Lobo. The plot hooks were very interesting even if I didnt like how they were handled. Lobo. The ending was nice and the starting plot holds great potential for a season and a good distraction for the Light to advance on their own agenda. Oh! And Lobo!Last edited by DaOldeWolf; 2012-04-29 at 07:27 PM.
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2012-04-29, 09:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
Why? Apparently they had plenty of ideas, because plenty seems to have happened in between seasons.
SpoilerWhy not tell those stories? Why not pick up where they left off and give us some episodes focused on Zatanna and Rocket, who got barely any screen time after joining the team? (Especially Rocket, who was on the team for all of two episodes and barely contributed anything besides giving Aqualad someone to make out with at the end of the season finale.) Why not introduce all those new characters gradually, giving them their own episodes? They did that with Zatanna last season, and that was good, up until they all but forgot she existed after she joined. Why not show us the story of why Robin chose to become Nightwing, or what came between Superboy and Miss Martian, or how Miss Martian wound up dating Lagoon Boy? Why not do the invasion story with a much smaller time skip, or even no time skip at all? Heck, if they must dump characters like Aqualad, Kid Flash, and Artemis, why the hell do it off-screen without so much as a mention of where they are now, rather than telling the story of how and why they leave the team? Especially Aqualad, since him leaving and giving over the reigns to Robin/Nightwing would be a big deal.
There's a quote from one of Linkara's comic reviews that I think is appropriate. Speaking about an instance where DC did a one-year time skip in their comics after a big event, he rhetorically asked: "After all, why show character development when you can just assume it happened?" I should hope that question answers itself.
That said, I'm not giving up on the show or anything. I just expected better. After the last episode of the previous season seemed so rushed and the issues I was starting to have with the lack of screen time for certain characters I was hoping that season 2 could get us back on track and make up for those issues, going back to taking things slower and giving us some episodes around the new members (Zatanna and Rocket) to develop them, maybe something for Aqualad since he had been so under-used for the last half of season 1. This is very much not that, and seems instead to be compounding the issues I was starting to have at the end of season 1, which is a bad sign in my book.
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"When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." -C.S. Lewis
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2012-04-29, 10:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
I think, for the most part, this episode was intended to garner a "what happened?" reaction. I think their plan was to get us guessing, get us speculating, get us headscratching, and then gradually reveal what happened over the next few episodes as the Invasion happens.
I also think they planned the second season to be relatively seperate from the first season. I recall when it was announced that Invasion was billed as a mini-series connected to YJ, not a second season at all. So, rather than a continuation, I think Invasion is intended as a sequel to the first, with the whole "16 hours" thing in the first season finale to be a sequel hook for the second. When looked in that light, that they set up the premiere like this is not surprising. Whether for series or films, etc., sequels often have an initial period of showing "Things are different now".
In any case, I've come to really admire Weismann's storytelling ability, having enjoyed previous series Gargoyles and Spectacular Spider-Man done by him and reading his thoughts on Ask Greg. Vietti I know less about, but his director credits include a third of all Batman:The Brave and the Bold episodes, which I enjoyed immensely. So, ultimately, whatever they do, I trust they know what they're doing and I also trust that I'll enjoy it.Visit the Chocolate Hammer IRC channel!
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2012-04-29, 10:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
Toph Pony avatar by Dirtytabs. Thanks!
"When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." -C.S. Lewis
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2012-04-29, 11:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
I liked the episode, but Lagoon Boy is very friggen annoying. Saying Neptune's barfbag is stupid, not funny. It's not stupid silly like Robin and Holy extraterrestrialkablooie, and it's not BTATB Aquaman's "Outrageous!" or his story titles. It's just stupid. Your LAGOON BOY, not the lovechild of Aqualad and 60's Robin.
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2012-04-29, 11:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
Yeah, I think that's gonna bother me more than Robin's made-up words from the first season. At least with that you could tell that they were trying to give him a unique and memorable character trait. It wound up annoying, but there was honest effort behind it. Lagoon Boy's jokes though are just straight-up lazy writing, going for the easiest lines based on him being a fish-person they could think of.
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"When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." -C.S. Lewis
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2012-04-29, 11:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
I agree that they were going to do that, and yet, it seems to me that they didnt work it out well. It didnt succeed in pacing the episode and giving a good first impression of what is the start of season 2 IMO. Not saying that it is the worst episode, but it isnt up to the quality of the show.
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2012-04-30, 12:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
While the idea is good I think the series is trying to be too clever for its own good here.
The only real continuity of character we have is in Superboy... who was easily the most anti-social of the Team in the first place. Which he seems to have softened some, but isn't gone. And its not like he's the focus of the episode either. There's changing things but this episode seems to be aggressively going for changing absolutely everything. Heck they don't even pick up something they set up, why couldn't our into-quasi protagonist be Beast Boy over Lagoon Boy. He's got a precedent for being a resident clown, we already know him, heck it would even draw five years into being sensible because he has to y'know grow up.
And I don't want to hate on La'gaan but we don't even really see his head despite being the closest to being our focus character for the episode. Unless it was supposed to be Tim Drake. Okay there's time to flesh guys out but this episode doesn't give us anything for anyone.
And with the sheer number of characters added I frankly don't believe nearly enough of them will be fleshed out. Given the record with Zatanna and Rocket and all. I've been biting my tongue on the matter but the way the show has been leads me to suspect Cassie and Barbara will just be there and never fleshed out as characters. And let me just say it is damn odd for Barbara to be there as Batgirl, enough to demand a very particular why.
This isn't even getting into how much the fundamental dynamic changes. The show literally has to have a different focus now. I frankly don't think they can justify being "The Team" anymore just for a start, it isn't singular anymore. Being the specialized black ops for the Justice League, not as big and loose as you are operating thank you.
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2012-04-30, 06:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
I...Liked the episode. Sure, there were some annoying parts in it. But, nobody can say that the first episodes of the first season didn't have annoying parts too. Hellooo M'gaan!
So, just like with every TV Series I watch - especially when such big changes happen - I'm going to reserve judgement until I see a few more episodes. Maybe they'll fix it, or explain it better? I'm not ruling out the possibility of some Zeta stupidity in the next episode and time travel getting involved and everything going back to normal with maybe one character knowing what happened and trying to prevent everything.
I firmly believe that was a reference to Jason Todd. You know the line. I really hope Greyson gets a couple of scenes where he can show Jason 'how it's really done'. Greyson becomes Batman after all.
Still, the only thing I can say for certain, was that the episode should've been a two-parter so we could have some more characterisation of the New Kids, or more screen time for the Old Guard.
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2012-04-30, 10:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
Lets be honest there were several cliff hangers and set up in the last season for the cold open in the new. Rocket could just have been proof of "the team will grow" even with other hints through out the series that it would. In regards to the supposed plot hole:
SpoilerIIRC Rhan space is outside the GL Corps jurisdiction; only joining during the Rhan/Thanagaran war. OA might not even know; or it got buried in red tap on OA
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2012-05-03, 09:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
Well...that was...unexpected.
kpenguin was bang on with the alien theory (though even I recognised the Boom-Tube last episode and my knowledge of DC is almost entirely limited to the animations).
Time skip...Huh.
Mixed feelings. On the one hand, some new characters (from everything I've heard and seen of Blue Beetle, he's pretty cool!, plus Beast Boy - Wonder Girl seemed pretty okay too, which is a marked improvement from Miss Mopey Pants from the arse-end of the Teen Titans (I didn't bother after the reboot), so, cool).
On the downside, almost certainly going to be less focus on the older characters, which is going to be less good. Already sorely missing Kid Flash and Artemis. (And what the frak is up with Miss Martian?)
Recognised nearly everyone apart from Lagoon Lad or whatever his name is - no idea about him at all. Not impressed with him so far, either; Aqualad was far more interesting.
I generally agree with Zevox that is was a bit too abrupt, and I'd liked to have seen the middle bit. Now, we may well see that in flashbacks later - if anything YJ has a bit of a thing for going for in media res and flashback explanations - but, yeah... That was a bit too jarring. Would have been less so if we'd seen more of the old guard, but it just seemed to jump in a bit too quick.
Wait and see, wait and see.
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2012-05-03, 01:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
Will reserve judgment until I see more of the new series, but here are a few of my thoughts.
Didn’t really mind the breakup of Superboy and Miss Martian, after all how many people fall in love and stay forever with the person they dated in high school, but Lagoonboy is annoying regardless if he ruined Conner and M’gann’s relationship.
I never liked how everyone and their mother kept reassuring Robin that he would eventually lead the team; even Aqualad told him he was just keeping the seat warm for him. Why does **** have to lead? Because it’s in the comics? Or worse yet because he was Batman’s protégée?
Personally I’ve always preferred the idea that **** became Nightwing (which was a name of a Kryptonian superhero) to get away from Batman, and at first it seemed the series would confirm this after the mind meld episode when **** said he doesn’t want to grow up to be Batman anymore.
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2012-05-03, 05:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
Just as a note:
It occured to me that the timeskip would seem a lot less abrupt if we'd had an actual break between seasons one and two, instead of them being one week apart thanks to CN's constant mucking with the schedule.
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2012-05-05, 11:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
An actual season break would help but without warning us I think it would still come off as abrupt. Its still a shift more appropriate to rebranding the entire show then going between seasons.
At any rate this week's episode is much improved, someone finally hit the brakes and got back to being about characters not events. Loved M'gann and Gar in particular.
Speculation time:
SpoilerAs he evidently maintains a hybrid form by choice I think Beast Boy is using animals as a personal choice as opposed to a specific power. Or at the very least has the potential to take on almost any shape he so chooses such as a different human, though all green so not useful for disguise.
Oh and I think Superboy wanted M'gann to be her actual self more and broke up with her when she would
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2012-05-05, 11:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
SpoilerWell, this was better. A decent way to recover from last week's episode - focus on two of the original main characters, just one of the new guys, and fill us on some of the events that occurred during the time skip. Doesn't make up for the time skip, but it's an improvement over just jumping in with a bunch of new characters and unexplained changes from last week.
Hopefully it won't take them more than another episode or two to tell us what happened to Aqualad, Kid Flash, and Artemis.
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"When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." -C.S. Lewis
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2012-05-05, 03:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
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2012-05-05, 04:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
Well, some of the previews seemed to indicate a timeskip... the footage fueled speculation of a timeskip which was later confirmed at least. I imagine a longer break would give us more knowledge of timeskippyness via previews and trailers.
I do think a rebranding is an appropriate way to look at it, rather than a simple shift between seasons. I mean, the show now has a new subtitle (Invasion) and all of the early discussions of Invasion talked about it as a miniseries sequel to Young Justice, rather than being just a new season.Visit the Chocolate Hammer IRC channel!
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